Why are good Godkings so rare? They're always Villains

In my homebrew setting the Godking/emperor is such a good guy he went to single-handedly fight invading demonic hordes before they reach the mortal realm so his subjects don't have to experience untold death and suffering.

Which saved the world, only his empire fell apart and the resulting wars made his subjects experience death and suffering anyway.

Talos just turned into a god, he didn't rule as one

Sure do buddy, both of em.

all are equal in undeath.

Except manlets.

God-Kings are not all powerful. If they were they would just be God. So they have lieutenants or underlings or something to do their bidding. It is through this power structure that corruption seeps in. Even someone with the best of intentions who takes the throne to act must realize that the throne also acts upon them.

>traitorous backstabbing cunt
>good guy
ordinator plz go

Explain yourself scum

Because that would be a boring-ass story.

Because in a narrative the presence of an extremely powerful autority figure that is both good and competent tend to reduce the amount of conflict. On the contrary, having either an evil God-King or an incompetent one (or any variation of that, like a good and competent one but with corrupt underlings) tend to increase conflict.

As stories trive on conflict you can easily understand why evil God-Kings are more popular.

Or, tl dr,

>a god
>and a king
>still gets involved in petty politics
>doesn't fix any problems
Either they render heroes meaningless or they don't do anything, which makes them basically a villain

I like this, a god king who is trapped/imprisoned in his protective role like Ra has to fight against Apophis everyday.

what did you mean by this

You would think having a powerful, timeless leader would be a good thing, but often that is not the case. The issue typically stems from their nature. They are free to take the long view of things, and their inhuman natures often render them unsympathetic or indifferent to the deeper struggles of the people they are meant to rule over, and their morality is often fundamentally different from mortal views of morality. One way or another, communication will eventually break down.

Gods and kings are both inherently evil concepts.

*tips fedora*

>Kings evil
Historically speaking you are correct, a king is not a tyrant by his sovereign alone.
>Gods evil
You wouldn't dare to bully Shallya, would you?

This is how I like to do the pantheon in my games, they're indisputably real, but they're too bust holding back the tides of unreality and eldritch horrors from beyond our little bubble of being to spend much time personally directing the affairs of their mortal subjects.

Post-modernism destroyed any belief in just use of power. Anyone who wields power of any kind must be portrayed as villainous to support the narrative of collective control of resources and culture.

A Godking would be the single greatest thing to happen to the human race.

>Vehk and Vehk
>good
...You do realize that he's easily the most villainous person in Morrowind, right?

Like, even if all the worst of the ambiguities surrounding Dagoth Ur turned out to be true, he still wouldn't be half as evil as Vivec.

Yes, it would.

“Is Godking willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then what chance does the protagonist have?. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is not good. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh conflict? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why not call him bitchking instead?”

Because even when they are a force of good, they are never loved. Individuals who would be responsible with absolute power are few and far between, so trust in god-kings is always low. As they command so much, with so much power, they are also the most open to criticism and hatred. To quell such things would be evil, so a good god-king is hated.

>shit taste detected

Do "god-kings who are slightly lesser cunts that other gods" count?

This.

>they're too bust holding back the tides of unreality and eldritch horrors from beyond our little bubble of being to spend much time personally directing the affairs of their mortal subjects.
This, and waging war among each other to acquire more worshipers, or just keep their own (power).

When someone normal becomes rich, sometimes they have even less time than before and are more stressed/depressed. When you're a homeless poorfag you only worry about warmth and food, but when millions hit your bank accounts you become obsessed with optimizing their spendings and evading taxes. Things that don't affect you when you're poor.
Also a huge part of their resources of reinvested in keeping said resources safe (security, insurance, lawyers, etc). So I like to think the same happens as a being gets more and more powerful to become a god.

I like Xerxes' style, but if he was a good guy it would've been a much less fun movie

>bystanders are just as evil as the bad guys
fuck off with your shitty morality

>post modernism destroyed belief in just use of power
>not the plethora of actual historical evidence of abuses of power

You're high my dude.

The use of power destroyed belief in just use of power, m800

How come ?

You can do stuff that bacteria in your intestines can't do, and they can do stuff you can't. Only the monotheistic representation of God implies omnipotence, and outside of omnipotence, competence isn't a hierarchy but a diverse specter of skills that complete each other (like my example).

Also, if a god escapes the rules of this world/dimension like physics and Aristotelian logic, then the "contradictions" you mention don't apply.

amen to that

There's something insultingly arrogant about claiming divinity. To put yourself so much above the rest that you no longer consider yourself human shows a disdain for humanity that is really offensive to the modern mind.

Pic related. I don't know if the Persian kings ever claimed to be gods, but it sure makes for good characterization. You instantly know this guy is delusional and callous to the extreme.

>my example of a good god king

Why am I getting a Thriller vibe from that picture? Especially from the one in the middle.

King Thorn is better.

No in fact the Persian kings were Zoarastrians. Also, what if they really ARE divine though?

>Famous outlaws were never, ever, EVER a thing during feudalism

Zoroastrianism essentially states that the king is the divinely chosen protector of all that is right and good. anything that stands against him is evil and demonic.

if Xerxes wanted to be called a god king it would have been considered extremely evil to deny that.

My nigga

>...You do realize that he's easily the most villainous person in Morrowind, right?
Pretty sure that Hircine is worse. He just shows up and sends a bunch of werewolves to start killing people for lulz. At least when Vivec kills people he's usually got a decent reason for doing so.

Also, he's used his god-powers to alter history so that he was always a god, even before he was born, so whether or not he backstabbed Nerevar is impossible to tell.

the original good guy god king
legionlets need not apply

>that's supposed to be a child
>Highfather looks like he's one of the apes from the Planet of the Apes
Terrible art in comics wasn't just something that started in the 90s, I see.

I'm pretty sure the inhumanity of the world wars destroyed any belief in modernism and the notion of just uses of power. You can't blame the effect for being the cause.

If he's claiming to be on the same level as Ahura Mazda, he's committing heresy.

There is a book on this you know

You mean the book that was 99.95% bitter sarcasm and Machiavelli going "No, no, your methods of using fear to control the populace are TOOOOOTES awesome"?

That's a weird way of admitting you didn't read the book since it was really 99% love letter to the Borgias.

Wars happened before. War didn't become less brutal; people became weaker. Post-modernism is a mollified form of socialism, which is why the French took to it with such gusto. But it was, remains, and always will remain fashionable nonsense parroted by the weak-minded. Freedom from morality ("grand narratives" if you're an idiot) does not equate to any reasonable measure of personal freedom. Taking the responsibility for humanity's course upon your own shoulders is too massive a task for any one human being, so the post-modernists equated all of humanity with the individual.

What happened after the fall of Rome? The Mongol Invasion of Japan? The innumerable wars of the Ottomans and Persians? Did these people curl into themselves in the belief they could recapture fetal comfort?

Post-modernism could only be supported by a capitalistic ennui. Fuck yourself, Hemingway, and all the rest of them.

That's delightfully tragic, good work.

>Triggered by a Lewis quote, forced to try to find fault
>Picks the one example where the king being absent is literally the impetus for the bandit-hero

Bless your heart sweetie.

>romans
>japanese
>ottomans
>Did these people curl into themselves in the belief they could recapture fetal comfort?

yep

But what if we just did it again, only harder? I'm sure it'll work this time.

>original
*breathes in* BOI

A while back, I had a godking in the backstory, not sure if he'd be "good", although he certainly wasn't bad.

>Aeons before campaign starts
>Dragon was sealed away by the Gods because in setting, Dragons were essentially bioweapons, and once they agreed to stop openly intervening in the mortal realm, they didn't need them in the same way.
>One particular one is in a vault that leaves him pent but still mentally active and able
>Trying to get out
>Can only really astrally project his brain though
>After a very long time, comes across an orphan boy that is in the right resonance to essentially merge the dragon brain with his.
>Boy becomes super-powerful as a result of this, doesn't have all of the dragon's powers, but has enough of them to be far more than an ordinary 12 year old, including a stopping of age.
>Starts amassing a following, resolving disputes, occasionally throwing some military might around, but mostly working through diplomacy and barter.
>Eventually rules over a small but very wealthy country
>Delves deep into magical research
>This goes on for hundreds of years, interrupted by the occasional war, famine, or other natural disaster. Boy-god-king never ages and never falters in support of his nation.
>Eventually, reach a point where they can bore a hole in this prison
>Dragon gets out, and immediately flies off into the distance
>Boy is depowered into a normal 12 year old child with no memory of the intervening 450 years or so.
>Empire immediately disintigrates
>PC's enter in the aftermath as mercenaries in the new chaos.

Not the guy you're replying to, but limp snark of your caliber is little more than comfort to the obviously wrong.

King Richard didn't factor into the original rhymes of Robin Hood. Given that the earliest we know of the rhymes is around 1370, it's obvious that Richard's life did not coexist with the formation of the rhymes. Mentions of Richard are not recorded until the 16th century, and are totally unsupported by evidence of the early ballads. Where Richard DOES start to show up is when the later ballads were codified into plays, which happen to coincide with Robin's portrayal as a gentleman, a step up from his original status as a yeoman.

I'd be happy to cite sources if you need them.

As a formerly upper middle class business owner who is now a hobo, all of my THIS.

I just lost The Game.

Because they have no place in the world we ought to build.

I've seen this backstory before. Seems interesting and fum to play in. Good job.

>levellers

We are all men; but we could be more. Godkings are rare because no worthy goal is easily achieved.

Sigmar

Cracka ass toilet bowl neanderthals took dem all away

UHURU

CAUSE NO ONE'S GONNA SAVE YOU FROM THE BEAST ABOUT TO STRIKE

That's fine, and congratulations on your Robin Hood scholarship, but he's still not a refutation of the Lewis quote.

Because their inhuman by nature. Maybe not immediately, but sooner or later their goals and ideals will no longer align with those they rule over. It's a similar issue to being ruled by a demon, or dragon. Sure they could give you security and power, maybe even prosperity. But in the long run you are nothing to them, and one day you will call upon adventurers to remove your tyrant king and return the land to rightful mortal rule.

Says you.

Only because you imagine yourself as the God King, and never serving under one who doesn't like you.

No wars in human history came close to the destruction and loss of life the two world wars caused. War most certainly became more brutal. Five minutes of researching the effects mustard gas had will give you all the brutality you need.

What about philosopher kings?

>Why are good Godkings so rare? They're always Villains.

Because immortality doesn't necessarily equate endless patience.
You might be a Godking, but all that entails is you get to personally witness the passage of time as each concurrent generations rolls forward thinking they'll be able to do the same shit everybody has done before them but, "This time, shall be different!!!!" but then it isn't and they're just as ignorant and annoying as the previous ones.

People never change and a Godking would be able to personally witness that.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm just explaining why it's so common.

Because otherwise, there's nothing to do. Here, let me give you an example.

The PCs enter the throne-room of the God-King. The city loves their lord, and their semi-divine ruler is totally a cool guy, his youth renewed by the love of his people.

So now what? I mean, all that's left is sightseeing. It's like that movie, Baahubali ('The One with Strong Arms') 2. When the titular protagonist ascends the throne, the movie ends: We already know he's going to rule benevolently, wisely and well. There's no story after that, besides "The Dalits are starting shit again."

You know, in hindsight...Robin Hood is basically Rambo, isn't he? He's a crazed veteran from Vietnam / the Crusades, hiding innawoods from the Sheriff who is desperately trying to keep this mad survivalist from waging what is basically a guerilla war against the current administration.

Lets be honest user, if it wasn't for socialist support systems your fat ass would probably already be dead in a ditch somewhere. Rugged individualism only works if you're rugged and can actually maintain your individuality.

>the "contradictions" you mention don't apply

Wrong.
As long as a God has even a single fingerhold on his world with anyone worshipping them, all contradictions apply. Only a God with no connection to his creation can be bereft of it's limitations, the new reality he imposes his will opn is then subject to new different limitations, as comes with ascension.

Well at least for Talos, as Tiber Septim, he brought about a golden age of the 3rd Tamrielic Empire that lasted for several decades before his death and ascendancy to godhood as the 9th Divine. Things fell apart when his is less than sane descendants took over....and then Martin ruined it by going and becoming the living embodiment of Akatosh leaving the throne empty.

Vivec however, stole divinity and then promptly used it to stick his dick in anything that moved, and some things that don't move.

He rigged time so he was good. It makes the question of whether he is or was evil difficult because his evil doesn't exist in our version of of things, but is it gone, having led to our version of things? It's a mess but as a ruler and a deity he did a swell job, but he still had to experience justice and decline.

How ya doin', CGP Grey?

>death and ascendancy to godhood as the 9th Divine.
Correction, he didn't ascend until after the Warp in the West when the Blades Agent granted the Totem of Fiber to the Underking, thus allowing for the Enantiomorph of Whulfarth, Tiber, and Zurin to be completed and mantle Lorkhan.

Further, by that point it had been a looooong as fucking time since the throne was actually held by an actual descendant of Tiber.

Martin's mistake wasn't in "ending" the dynasty, but rather in destroying the Amulet of Kings, thus breaking the empire's pact with Akatosh

Besides, the Septum "golden age" was shit compared to Reman's dynasty. PRAISE REMAN!

...

>What about Talos ?
Tiber was kind of a cockshit
>Assassinated his lord in the night
>Took credit for the success of others
>Betrayed both Whulfarth and Zurin to make his fancy nuke
>Used said walking brass nuke to try and destroy Summerset before the Underking stopped him
>Forced Barenziah to have an abortion against her will
>Had the denizens of Hrol'Dan killed to the last man, woman, and child
>Lies to the Nords about being from Atmora
>Cut his own throat in order to trick people into thinking he lost his Thu'um, when in actuality he just did it because Whulfarth left him and wouldn't shout for him anymore

Yeah, Tiber was an asshole

I'm pretty sure that's Jack fucking Kirby you motherfucking pleb.

So that's the part you correct, but not the Vivec using godlike powers to fuck everything? Okay then, see we've got our priorities all in order.

I knew about a bunch of the warp in the west shenanigans, but I just wanted to summarize a bunch of it. Turns out a guy becoming a God gets complicated in the "making of" process

Suseborn from Warbreaker is a pretty chill dude. But he had a lot of his power sealed away so there's that too. And even Vasher let go of ruling in favor of doing his own thing. We'll have to see if either of them go nuts in the sequel.

jack couldn't draw faces that well, may be a problem with comics at the time, but they look ugly

>but not the Vivec using godlike powers to fuck everything?
Because that part is true. I mean, a good portion of his 36 lessons is him trying to kill off the bastards he had during his brief fling with Molag Bal.

Then theirs there's the whole deal with him trying to get in the pants both Tiber Septim and Cyrus the Restless. And there was that one time when Almalexia was banging twin clones of which Vivec then decided to possess and proceed to mercilessly use to ahegao Almalexia. And there was that other time when Vivec had sex with a bunch of Morag Tong assassin's who ten gave birth to an army of assassins in order to help him find and capture one of his bastards from Molag

Anyway, the point is Vivec is a creepy fucker who needs to keep his muatra to himself

how not?

Generally speaking, most who seek godhood or a kingship don't do it for benevolent reasons and those who do are such a stabilizing force that the scale of conflict for their realm would be fairly limited.

In my current campaign, a mortal managed to craft an artifact that made him able to mind control people and morph the land in a radius around his throne. He used his power to build a haven of peace in the middle of a country in perpetual war.

He accidentally lobotomized lots of people because he has difficulty wielding divine power. He can fix them, but it takes up to a month to fix one person. He realized that the time he spent fixing one person could be spent saving a hundred outside, so he made a little village under the city for the people whose mind he's ruined.

Now, he needs people he can trust with additional artifacts to extend his influence beyond his city. However, the people in his city lack the ambitious spark that a true leader needs, so he's forced to recruit outsiders and weed out the rotten apples.

after all, no King rules alone

A god-king is hardly a bystander.

Leto is benign, but not "good". If it wasn't because the reader finds out Leto's endgame since the previous book, he could easily be a 100% straight dark lord. In the meanwhile there's 4000 years of a grotesque virtually omniscient man-sandworm deliberately tormenting mankind with the most brutal regimen in history

Maybe he's acting like a dick so a group of adventurers can "kill" him.
Afterwards he decides to fuck off and sleep/wander the earth/enjoy his life