That’s it. my friends and I are sick of the TotE being a «go OP or die» army so we started a brainstorming to find a way to fix it. There have been a lot of sporadic discussions about Guardian spears, Sagittarum and other shitty stuff FW should have done better, but no joint effort to solve the whole problem AFAIK. Now the time has come. Can Veeky Forums still get shit done or have we become a shadow of our former glory? Let’s prove we don’t need any FAQ to make 30k great again!
Here are some ideas about Custodes, feel free to sperg about this being shit so we can improve it.
Jacob Sanders
>SPECIAL RULES
>The Sodality Add «Characters with these rule may only attempt Look Out Sir! rolls if they have the Independent Character special rule.»
>WARGEAR
>Misericordia Melee S-1 AP3 → Power dagger. Mostly useful for Sagittarum guards.
>Guardian Spear Blade: Melee S+1 AP3 Two-handed, Rampage Melta beam: 12’’ S8 AP1 Assault 1, Melta → The idea is turning Custodian guards into a good unit to deal with hordes. Yes they are now useless against TEQs, but you have other guys for that.
>Paragon Spear Blade: Melee S+2 AP2 Two-handed, Rampage, Murderous Strike Bolter: 18’’ S5 AP3 Assault 2 → A super Guardian spear. Looks a bit OP but it will be more expensive than a Paragon blade and you can’t take it with a shield.
>Sentinel Warblade Warblade: Melee S:U AP3 Piercing Cut Bolt caster: 12’’ S4 AP5 Assault 2, Hail of Fire → Sentinels are now decent at slowly killing TEQs through attrition but the fight will probably last for a loooong time if they don’t get any support. Reliable, but not the ultimate tool for the job.
>Adrathic weaponry Replace «Instant Death» with «Deflagrate» Adrathic exterminator: 36’’ S7 AP2 Heavy 2, Deflagrate, Armourbane, Gets Hot → Instant Death is too powerful against MC or multi-wound units. Deflagrate seems more balanced against a wider number of targets.
>Heliothermic Detonation Any To Wound roll of 6 from this weapon inlicts 2 wounds instead of 1. Roll to save against each wound separately. If a vehicle suffers a penetrating hit from this weapon, add +1 to the result rolled on the Vehicle Damage Table.
>Praesidium Shield Provides a 4+ invulnerable save. and imposes a -I penalty on To Hit rolls on opponents who direct their attacks against the model in the Assault phase. Do note that a unit only benefits from this penalty if at least half the models are equiped with a Praesidium shield, and models fighting in a Challenge are treated as separate units for that purpose. A model equipped with a Praesidium shield however cannot use a weapon with the Two-handed special rule, claim the benefit of an additional close combat weapon in an assault. → No re-roll = no more Shieldstodes bullshit. Also clarifying how the -1 penalty works.
Grayson Hall
>UNITS
HQ
>SHIELD CAPTAIN 180 points >Wargear Replace «close combat weapon» with «Misericordia» >Options The Shield Captain may be equipped with any of the following: - Cyber-familiar = 20 points The Shield Captain may replace their Guardian spear with one of the following options: - Paragon blade = 20 points - Paragon spear = 30 points A single Legio Custodes Shield Captain in your army may be upgraded to a Legio Custodes Tribune for +40 points so long as the Detachment they are a part of is of 2,000 points or more. → Paragon blade was added so we can have sweet shield + sword/spear/thefuckIknow conversions. The «3++ with -1 to hit» combo is still possible but quite expensive for what it does so I don’t think it’s a problem. → Question: should Shield Captains have access to the Gyrfalcon jetbike (for a high but resonable cost)? Mobility is theit biggest problem as a close combat unit and every
>CONSTANTIN VALDOR 315 points >Wargear The Apollonian spear: Blade: Melee S+2 AP2 Two-handed, Rampage, Molecular Severance Molecular Severance: Any To Wound roll or Armour Penetration roll of a 4+ with this weapon inflicts Instant Death or causes a penetrating hit regardless of the target's Armour value in the case of a vehicle. In addition, any successful invulnerable save made against wounds from this weapon must be re-rolled. → Higher point cost for balance purpose.
Chase Allen
>CUSTODIAN GUARD SQUAD 165 points >Wargear Replace «close combat weapon» with «Misericordia» >Options The Custodian Guard Squad may include: - Up to seven additional Custodian Guard = +55 points each Replace «Any member of the Custodian Guard Squad may replace their Guardian spear with one of the following options :» by «For every three models in the squad, one model may replace their Guardian spear with one of the following options:» → What is your opinon on Adrathic spamming? Limiting access to special weapons sounded a good idea to me.
>SENTINEL GUARD SQUAD 195 points >Wargear Replace «close combat weapon» with «Misericordia» >Special Rules Shield Barricade: Models with this rule may re-roll failed invulnerable saves if they are in base contact with one or more models equiped with a Praesidium shield. >Options The Sentinel Guard Squad may include: - Up to seven additional Sentinel Guard = +65 points each Replace «Any member of the Sentinel Guard Squad may replace their Sentinel warblade :» by «For every three models in the squad, one model may replace their Sentinel warblade:» Replace «One member of the Sentinel Guard Squad may exchange their Praesidium shield» with «One member of the Sentinel Guard Squad may exchange their Praesidium shield or Sentinel warblade» → Shield Barricade is now actually useful. Access to Solarite weapons is limited in order to keep Aquiloi relevant.
>SAGITTARUM GUARD SQUAD 195 points >Special Rules Add «Ignores Cover» >Options The Sagittarum Guard Squad may include: - Up to seven additional Sagittarum Guard = +65 points each → For all of us who wanted Boltodes as a Troop choice. Still hesitant about their point cost though.
Jordan Brown
ELITES
>HETAERON GUARD SQUAD >Options Any member of the Hetaeron Guard Squad may replace their Guardian spear with one of the following options: - A pair of Solarite power talons = 20 points - Paragon spear = 25 points
>AQUILON TERMINATOR SQUAD >Options Any model may exchange their Lastrum pattern storm bolter for one of the following options: - Infernus firepike = +5 points One member of the Aquilon Terminator Squad may exchange their Lastrum storm bolter for a Magisterium vexilla = +10 points → Infernus firepikes are cheaper in order to make Aquiloi a viable option against hordes.
>CONTEMPTOR-ACHILLUS DREADNOUGHT >Wargear Achillus dreadspear: Melee S10 AP2 Master-crafted, Two-handed, Reaping Blow, Impaling Impaling: On the turn in which this model charges, the controlling player may choose to perform an Impaling attack. If they do so, the model makes a single attack (regardless of any modifier) with the Destroyer special rule. → Impaling was OP garbage, nuff said.
Alexander Williams
FAST ATTACK
>AGAMATUS JETBIKE SQUADRON 300 points >Wargear Replace «power lance» with «Fulgurata power lance» Fulgurata power lance: Melee S:U/+2* AP4/2* Specialist weapon *Use the second profile if the model has charged this turn. >Special Rules Add «Crusader» Remove «Sweeping fire» >Options The Legio Custodes Agamatus Jetbike Squadron may include: - Up to three additional Custodian Agamatus = +100 points each Any Legio Custodes Agamatus Jetbike may upgrade its Lastrum bolt cannon with one of the following options: - Adrathic devastator = +20 points -Twin-linked Corvae las-pulser = +25 points → I made up the Fulgurata power lance because Iwanted the Agamati to be fucking knights of golden rape instead of long range weapon platforms.
>PALLAS GRAV-ATTACK SQUADRON 75 points >Options The Pallas Grav-attack Squadron may include: - Up to two additional Pallas Grav-attack vehicles = +75 points each Any Pallas Grav-attack may exchange its twin-linked Arachnus blaze cannon for a: - Twin-linked Adrathic devastator = +15 points
John Wright
HEAVY SUPPORT
>CALADIUS GRAV-TANK 230 points >Options A Caladius Grav-tank may take any of the following upgrades: - Helical targeting array = + 20 points A Caladius Grav-tank may exchange its Iliastus accelerator cannon for a : - Twinl-linked Adrathic exterminator = +10 points - Twin-linked Arachnus heavy blaze cannon = + 25 points → The Caladius is criminaly undercosted for what it does and that should be fixed. I’m not sure about the Helical array but having a reliable anti-flyer unit seemed important IMO.
>CONTEMPTOR-GALATUS DREADNOUGHT 230 points >Wargear Dreadnought Praesidium shield: Provides an invulnerable save of 4+ in assault and against attacks originating from the model’s Front arc. In addition, attacks made in assault against the model, other than by Gargantuan units, suffer a -I penalty to hit- note that this penalty has no effect on attacks which hit automatically.
>TELEMON HEAVY DREADNOUGHT 330 points >Wargear Telemon Caestus: Melee Sx2 AP2 Sunder, Murderous Strike Spiculus bolt launcher: 48’’ S5 AP4 Heavy 5, Rending, Volley Fire, Helical Targeting Array >Options A Telemon Heavy Dreadnought may exchange either or both of its Telemon Caestus and inbuilt Proteus plasma projector for an: --Arachnus storm cannon = +40 points --Iliastus accelerator culverin = +25 points → Higher price tag for balance purpose. Also better anti-flyer capabilities.
LORDS OF WAR
>ORION ASSAULT DROPSHIP 550 points >Wargear Spiculus heavy bolt launcher: 48’’ S7 AP4 Heavy 5, Rending → A bit cheaper and a few more dakka
Jordan Ortiz
They're an elite army no matter how you slice it. Making them mote versatile just kills what they're already good at. I threw a 5 man unit of custodes into my army and they destroyed a unit of beserkers (who charged them!) In one round. I think they're fine desu
Julian Torres
>They're an elite army no matter how you slice it. Making them mote versatile just kills what they're already good at TotE are supposed to be a standalone army, and some units are actually good at nothing when others are way too powerful. Killing a MEQ squad isn't a big deal for them but don't even try to play against a cult horde.
Cameron Wood
They should be Imperial agent(s), either a single squad or character, nothing more...
C'mon GDubs, try harder.
Sebastian Lee
> my friends and I are sick of the TotE being a «go OP or die» army But that's literally the baseline concept of the army! They're the elite of the elite, even compared to the superhuman Space Marines.
Aiden Wood
Sounds fun, I've been thinking about this as well.
>The Sodality Eh, just remove the Character tag for everything and replace it with Chosen Warriors.
>Misericordia >Guardian Spear >Paragon Spear Looking good. I'd bump up the Guardian Spear to +2S as well, for the sake of consistency.
>Sentinel Warblade Piercing Cut is very strong. I'd leave it with Rending. Durability should be their hallmark, Rending TEQs to death should only be a secondary job.
>Solarite Gauntlet Axe Mastercrafted on it and the Solarite Talon. Less shit to keep track of and the gauntlet is already tremendously powerful.
>Adrathic weaponry Deflagrate is garbage. Give it a Murderous Blow variant that works at range instead.
>Adrastus Bolt Caliver Throw Pinning on it, just to give it more of a niche.
>Heliothermic Detonation The entire rule is terrible no matter how you slice it. I'd make it cause d3 hits on a 6 to hit.
>Praesidium Shield Good, very sensible. But since there should still be a reason to take it on a model with an Iron Halo I'd change it to +1 to invulnerable saves, up to a 3++. And remove all cyber-familar interaction with invulns. Also make it clear that you can't combine it *ever* with a guardian spear or a paragon spear.
>Bonus: Solarite Talons >S+1 AP3 Melee, Shred, Specialist Weapon, Piercing Cut, Tear Apart >Tear Apart: When wielding a pair of these weapons each successful wound roll causes two wounds, which must be saved seperatly. Gives an HQ model some reason to wield a pair of these.
Justin Williams
>SHIELD CAPTAIN Tribune should grant a special warlord trait instead of giving free choice. >Emissary of the Emperor: Grants Fearless and Eternal Warrior to the warlord. Bam, issues resolved. Giving him access to a paragon blade is nice. In regards to the cyber-familiar, see above. Fuck that fucking thing. What a terrible addition to the game.
>CUSTODIAN GUARD SQUAD I'd say allow them one special spear per two models, but maybe that's already too much. The reduced potential of the adrathic weapons suggested above should curb things regardless.
>SENTINEL GUARD SQUAD Very sensible, very solid. Near perfect as is.
>SAGITTARUM GUARD SQUAD Troops is a great idea, but I am leary when it comes to Ignore Cover, it seems to be the go-to choice to buff shooting. I'd prefer Precision Shots or something in line with their fluff. Sniper would obviously be too potent, I fear.
>HETAERON GUARD SQUAD Paragon spears on them make me a little uneasy.
>AQUILON TERMINATOR SQUAD >CONTEMPTOR-ACHILLUS DREADNOUGHT Good, no complaints.
Jacob Sanders
>AGAMATUS JETBIKE SQUADRON >Removed. The GW jetbike is infinitly superior in every way, so there is no need to keep the Agamatus.
Michael Morris
>AGAMATUS JETBIKE SQUADRON I'd ditch the non-charge profile, they got a Misericordia for that anyway. And make it S+3 on the charge, for somewhat unique S8 strikes on the charge. Also, remove split fire, which makes no fucking sense on jetbikes. The rest is sensible.
>PALLAS GRAV-ATTACK SQUADRON I have no idea if that will fix the Pallas. I think that rustbucket is beyond saving.
>CALADIUS GRAV-TANK Solid on the price front, though I'd have upped the price further. But it makes no sense as dedicated AA.
>CONTEMPTOR-GALATUS DREADNOUGHT Good.
>TELEMON HEAVY DREADNOUGHT Hmm. Good ideas all. If the spiculus has HTA it needs some form of split fire though, which might well creep into OP areas again.
>ORION ASSAULT DROPSHIP The ugly fucker can stay shit for all I care.
Austin Johnson
>implying FW's ever gonna let you have those in 30k
Grayson Foster
>implying I give a shit about FW wants me to do Hurricane bolters? Those are obviously a multi-barreled Lastrum boltcannon. Missiles? Curious those would hit just like a Corvus las-pulsar, right?
Jack Sanders
I'd argue that there should be a middle ground. Right now you spam accelerator caladius, rifleman-telemon and agamtus jetbikes and win by a landslide, or you don't pick the OP shit and are fucked in most situations.
Daniel Rivera
>Eh, just remove the Character tag for everything and replace it with Chosen Warriors. Character may be relevant for some other rules but you're right.
>I'd bump up the Guardian Spear to +2S as well, for the sake of consistency. S+1 is the usual bonus for spear/halberd weapons like Nostramian chainglaives, the WS power glaives, 40k guardian spears, etc. S6 on a non-monstruous model seems good enough IMO.
>Piercing Cut is very strong. I'd leave it with Rending. Durability should be their hallmark, Rending TEQs to death should only be a secondary job Rending with 2 attacks per model isn't enough IMO. That's 0.33 Cataphractii killed every turn for a squad of 3 Sentinels when a squad of 5 Cataphractii with gauntlets would deal between 0.69 and 1.38 wounds to them (depending on wether or not you get the re-roll from Wall Barricade).
>Solarite gauntlet/talons Hmmm you have a point, having M-C on this particular weapons while the rest are mundane is quite weird.
>Adrathic weaponry I don't have any problem with Deflagrate tbqh but your proposition is solid.
>Good, very sensible. But since there should still be a reason to take it on a model with an Iron Halo I'd change it to +1 to invulnerable saves, up to a 3++. And remove all cyber-familar interaction with invulns. Also make it clear that you can't combine it *ever* with a guardian spear or a paragon spear. I don't want to change how the cyber-familiar works because it isn't a Custodes-specific item. The shield giving a straight 4++ is only a problem for the Shield Captain, I would fix that by giving him a refractor field and making the Iron Halo an option. The spears have the Two-handed special rule --> no shield allowed.
>Bonus: Solarite Talons A pair of Solarite talons is the only way to get +1S, Shred and a bonus attack, no other combination allows such a thing. Tear Apart is too powerful but Piercing Cut is a good idea.
Blake Robinson
>A pair of Solarite talons is the only way to get +1S, Shred and a bonus attack Not him, but looking at the spears above, why would I ever take the talons? They are worse the paragon spear in any situation outside of fighting single models with T3 or less, right?
John Green
>A pair of Solarite talons is the only way to get +1S, Shred and a bonus attack, no other combination allows such a thing. Yes, and a Paragon Spear gives you +2S (making Shred less relevant), +d3 Attacks (in most situations) and the always-useful Murderous Strike, all of that at native AP2. Meanwhile, the Solarite Gauntlet gives S10 AP1 straight up and can be combined with the Praesidium Shiled for maximized defense. I see no reason to ever take the talons over the Paragon Spear or a Solarite Gauntlet/Shield combo.
Jeremiah Jackson
>Tribune should grant a special warlord trait instead of giving free choice. >Emissary of the Emperor: Grants Fearless and Eternal Warrior to the warlord. Nice. We could also create a specific Warlord Traits table for Custodes and the Tribune would be able to pick one of them.
- Emissary of the Emperor : The Warlord has the Fearless and Eternal Warrior special rules - Champion of the Blood Game : The Warlord has the Infiltration and Stealth special rules - Blade of Terra : The Warlord has the Preferred Enemy (Character) special rule - Touched by His Grace : The Warlord has the Adamantium Will and Feel No Pain (5+) special rules - Master of the Watch : one unit within 12" of the Warlord may benefit from the Interceptor special rule once per turn - I don't have any idea for a sixth
>Sagittarum Precision Shots isn't bad, thanks for the proposition.
>HETAERON GUARD SQUAD >Paragon spears on them make me a little uneasy. Sure it's very powerful, but it means losing the potential bonuses from a Praesidium shield.
>I have no idea if that will fix the Pallas. I think that rustbucket is beyond saving. My only idea would be raising its price and turning into a flyer, but I'm not sure it would fit the lore well...
>CALADIUS GRAV-TANK >But it makes no sense as dedicated AA. Yeah I know but Custodes don't have much models that would look decent as anti-aircraft units and they really need some. The Caladius and the Telemon are the less bad options IMO.
Argh, I admit I forgot about that. Maybe we should just lower the price of Solarite talons (single and paired) by 5 points and make the Paragon spear S+1 ?
