In a world where it is objective and widely known fact heaven/hell exist

Maybe hell is just like heaven but for the whims of the sinners? Instead of an eternity basking in light you spend it buried in greasy diseased whores.

> giving your kids autism

>He ACTUALLY has autism

these posts were made by my mom

Depends on the setting. In pathfinder and d&d you're rewarded for exceptional evil in the afterlife.

It made perfect sense in the 2nd/3rd edition Forgotten Realms setting because Hell didn't exist to punish people, Heaven wasn't actually a good place at all, and the entire setting was utterly evil without most people realizing it, including most people with power. It's my favorite horror setting, better than Ravenloft.

And here I thought Veeky Forums was a cultivated board

In most of those settings a sufficiently intelligent evildoer has a job with a pitchfork waiting for him in hell, rather than a spot in a lava pool.

It cultivates many things, truly insightful thought is not one of them. Also they're joking.

>burning in hell is literally just the burning of herpes when you pee
>tfw I've only made that joke once
>tfw auto complete still knew what I wanted to type

I know someone who believes themselves to be a devout Catholic that thinks chicken isn't ""meat"" since its sold as poultry and genuinely believes they can argue this technicality with God after eating it on Lent for the last decade. A person who legitimately believes God to be the creator of all, all knowing, all powerful thinks saying "yeah but its said poultry.." will get them out of Lent like they didn't clean their room or do the dishes.

I and others have explained that it dosen't work that way and, by the rules of their faith, getting back into God's good grace would be a very simple process. Instead they refuse to admit fault, never mention this in confession and continue eating poultry on holy days. While I am not Catholic I am pretty certain flagrantly violating the rules and refusing to even admit you were wrong will land you in hell.

And what do they gain for it?

Eating chicken instead of fish?

If a person is willing to gamble a literal eternity of burning in hellfire over THAT then it isn't hard to see how ruinous powers could tempt mortals with earthly desires.

Autism confirmed

#DownWithVaccine

Short term benefits versus long term consequences.

I would argue that there's even more reason to do evil. I'll give you an example: I am a sociopathic child-murderer and rapist. I am human garbage in every sense of the word. However, there's a Demon Lord of Child Murder and Rape, who is delighted by the shit I do. I start worshipping him, because I know that I can do what I love and win brownie points with him.

When I inevitably die and go to hell, instead of suffering the torments of the damned, I get a black obsidian tower and a choir of underaged children to sodomize. It's win-win!

Or if I'm an insane, evil cultist, I have even more reason to blow myself up. Now, I have PROOF I get 72 virgins in paradise. I don't even have to be brainwashed, the cult priest casts Commune and goes "There you go, they're waiting for you. Now blow yourself up, toot sweet."

You know what I hate more than that? devils and demons are actually managing Hell instead of being punished inside it, this is the kind of stupid shit you get from people who starts writing about religion when they only heard about it.
also the shitty
>Angels are bad and devils are good
>TWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEST

devils are sexy

>In a world where it is objective and widely known fact vaccination prevents disease
>People still choose to be anti-vaxxers

>Angels are bad and devils are good
>TWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEST
What setting has anything even remotely like this? Like the worst I've seen is "Angels are bad. Devils are also bad. Who you side with is basically a statement about how would you humanity to be sodomized for this apocalypse?"

Even though it's kind of a shitty comic, Spawn had a neat idea for heaven and hell, i.e. it's basically two shitheaded brats fighting each other and each is a lie to amass an army to fight the other.

Man it's so easy to post when you don't even have to read the thread isn't it?

It's arrogance to think all random evil doers have a chance to 'reign' in hell. What is better, to serve in hell or to serve in heaven?

Well, that really depends on the benefits package. Which is why, if determined to go down an evil path, you call up a representative of your regional hell and work out a contract beforehand

>murdering isn't evil
"hurr durr it was good from my point of view"

>People still choose to do evil shit
It can work.

dandwiki.com/wiki/Kantian_Paladin_(3.5e_Class)
>Remember that not only does an afterlife exist, but one can go there and visit it to watch Evil souls receive rewards from Evil deities. Since killing Evil people makes both them and everyone else better off (because they're no longer around in life to do Evil), it is in fact a moral duty to send successful Evil to the afterlife expediently.

So just like in real life?

>Not #DownwithDowns

Murdering someone who killed countless innocents and was about to kill you.

>Evil people are arrogant
Shock of all shocks

Objective morality is only suited as a basic storytelling mechanic anyway.
I'm pretty dure als that Lawfull good and chaotic evil shit only started to give the first generation of RPG players some guideline.

There are settings who handle the truth of an afterlife better. Glorantha for example.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40

It'll all be ok trust us

They'd probably have an easier argument just by realizing that the meat during lent thing was rescinded and never mattered in the first place.

>“You don’t even get to set the rules you live by,” I said. “You’re a leaf spun in the wind deluding itself into thinking as long as it behaves it’ll land somewhere nice.”
>She smiled, eyes gentle and sad. The kind of eyes you gave someone who was so far lost they didn’t even remember what the path looked like. Her pity burned me harder than Summer’s flame ever had.
>“And you think your way will let you choose where you land?”
>My mantle roiled under my skin, the weight of all the choices I had made and would make, the sum of what I was and would be.
>“That’s where you’re wrong, Sister,” I told her, “I don’t want to be the leaf – I want to be the storm.”
>She laid a gentle hand on my wrist.
>“In the end,” she murmured. “I choose to believe that being Good matters more that being strong.”
>“In the end,” I replied clearly, “I would rather be wrong than be cowed.”

So hell is really a punishment for those who overestimate themselves? A trap for those affected by the Dunning Kruger effect? The final destination for people who are both selfish AND who are idiots (because smart selfish people would realize the divine con going on and do everything in their power to get into heaven).

Fucking gay, and corny. Read more books.

>smart selfish people get into heaven
>dumb selfish people go to hell

both of these places sound really shitty

>Setting doesn't even have a pantheon of over 30 gods most of which are morally ambiguous, only a small few could actually be classified as good or evil.

Ouch. I'm quite fond of Practical Guide to Evil myself, and thought it handled it's Empire quite well.

>most of which couldn't even be properly classified as gods, just spirits with weird agendas

>google the title
>first result has a description of it
>YA

no wonder it's shit

>implying I'll go to hell once I die and receive my due punishment there
>implying I won't abuse one of the numerous celestial loopholes, either to get a position of power in hell/heaven, go to heaven instead or make them return me back to life instead
Being a good villain is all about connections, you fucking braindead samaritan.

But user, instant gratification exists. Humans are really, really bad at planning long-distances, so doing bad things for immediate rewards seems like a fine idea even when posed against eternal torment, because that comes LATER.

Hey, friend, you're entitled to your opinion. What kind of literature would you recommend to me instead, if I were interested in reading from a villain's perspective?

I'd argue that even eating fish is a big violation, since I'm fairly sure the point of doing this is 'giving up on harming living things'.

But then again if you did that you probably wouldn't be eating veggies either and would quickly get sick from mal-nourishment.

Abusing celestial loopholes sounds like a cool theme for a game.

While I agree this may not be the best excuse, but it can still work in a setting where "good" and "evil" aren't actions or morality as such, but more the "team" you align yourself with. Honestly, the divide should be pretty black and white in these settings, with a real "me vs. you" mentality.
Another option is that the powers of hell offer rewards to those that align themselves with them. Some people are willing to sacrifice their soul and their eternal heaven for temporary benefit in the here and now, largely due to impatience, recklessness, anger, or any other negative emotion that clouds judgement. I sort of touch on this in one of the posts on my blog, so i'll go ahead and point you that direction if you're interested.
>draconick.com/2017/12/15/alignment-the-good-and-the-bad/

Depends on what you mean by "villain". Surely not "evil for evil's sake"? Characters that might be seen as villains, but don't view themselves as such exist aplenty - for example, the characters from the Black Company books are actually terrible people between the lines (a lot of rape and plundering gets hinted at, but swept under the narrative carpet), in addition to working for an objectively terrible faction for a large part of the series.

>some of whom aren't really even deities
>just assholes stealing the power of greater entities and breaking promises to their best friend.

I picked up the first Black Company book, but I wasn't too fond of it. I didn't like the writing style, and the fact that they were called The Black Company due to the founders being Black was far less interesting than a name given due to their actions.

It just felt weird, especially when things like were-jaguars were introduced. I was never really able to get settled in the setting or invested in the characters.

>Practical Guide to Evil
You are my nigga now.

Hey, glad we've got similar tastes, user.

Here's another quote demonstrating the proper technique to deal with threats to your loved ones.

>“Do it,” I said. “ Kill them. If I give in once, you’ll just use it against me over and over again.”
>I couldn’t beat the monsters by being better than them. I’d never had that in me. Too much impatience, too much recklessness. That was all right, though. There was another way: be the bigger monster.
>“Do you think I’m bluffing?” Heiress asked, voice low and dangerous.
>“I know you’re not,” I admitted. “Which is why I’m going to say this: if a single one of them dies, I will make a monument to ruin of you. All that has ever given you joy, I will turn to ashes. Everyone you’ve ever loved, I will break so thoroughly they die cursing your name. I will undo everything you’ve ever accomplished, wipe the slate of your existence so clean there won’t be a person alive that remembers you were ever born. I will take no pleasure in it, but I will do it.”
>Eyes cold as ice, I bared my teeth.
>“I will do it, so that the next time some smug Praesi prick tells me to surrender I can point to the wasteland that was once your home and watch them flinch.”

Your loss. The books get really good, in my opinion.

I'll see about picking it back up later, but I got it during the holidays with a gift card and a massive sale at the store. I've got half a dozen books to go through, and Black Company's fallen to the bottom of the list.

I still think one of my favorite scenes was when Knight makes Squire own her actions and the consequences thereof vis a vis watching the executions.

If the Jews can argue with God over technicalities I don't see why the Catholics can't.

People know cigarettes, alcohol, and drugs are bad, but still use them.

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints" ?

I'm not Catholic so I don't give a shit if that guy eats meat during Lent or not. If that actually impacts his status in the afterlife I am probably fucked too so I don't dwell on it.

I was just using that as an example of someone knowingly disobeying what they firmly believe to be the sole deity of good in the universe, who's only alternative offers nothing but eternal torment, over the wording on how the supermarket labels their food. Not for any kind of real benefit or anything just because they want to eat chicken during Lent.

If "i literally cannot go without eating chicken" is enough temptation for someone it is not hard to imagine how quickly someone could be corrupted in a fantasy setting. If Satan could immediately manifest physical objects like piles of gold or outright kill someones rival for them there would be people who would be tempted to damnation. Even if they knew hell was actually, verifiably real there are people who steal just because they can who know that jail is real and what waits for them at the end.

>en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40
>between 1955 and 1963

I mean, have you seen their codices? That's why "the devil's advocate" is a common expression - because with a good lawyer, you can literally turn your sentence upside down and instead of being sent to the darkest depths of hell, you will enjoy your vacation in heaven.

You should all be banned

>to get a position of power in hell/heaven
That's not how any of that works.

Besides, even if it was, what fucking job would there be for a mortal soul? You inherently lack the capacity to comprehend or even entirely observe anything you would be expected to deal with. At best you'd be a janitor or attendant for other mortal consciousnesses who are actively subjected to wherever they are (which in itself obviously doesn't really make sense).

>That's not how any of that works.
Depends on the setting
>You inherently lack the capacity to comprehend or even entirely observe anything you would be expected to deal with.
Depends on the setting

It's not murder at that point.

>You inherently lack the capacity to comprehend or even entirely observe anything you would be expected to deal with.
>In a world where it is objective and widely known fact heaven/hell exist
Pick one.

>57426300
(you hope)

>Be EO;
>Fasting involves going full vegan for a while. No animal protein at all;

Stuff's simpler.

That's basically our world as plenty of peole see it today. Even more so in past centuries and peolle did evil things, often in direct contradiction to the rules of their religion. A lack of faith or certainty of the afterlife isn't the root of evil, it can be just as much as faith and the afterlife can be used to motivate evil acts like murder (suicide bombers think they're the good guys for example). In many settings different deities have different values. Would a neutral good of knowledge have condemned a man of science for going straight to human trials of a new medicine knowing he might cause more suffering or even kill his test subjects in order to more quickly develope a cure for a disease that would otherwise kill millions? Putting those considerations aside you can explain evil acts by remembering that even the worst shits in history, ones whose acts seem completely unjustifiable and inexcusable today probably all thought they were the good guys too.

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

It was also considered the worst part because it was the place farthest from the warmth of God's light (hence the reason it was eternally frozen)

Don't you badmouth Vivec!

Well I mean they ARE the Chosen. They get different rules than goyim.

Vivec a betrayer and a shit and was cowed by a Redguard once.

Good writer, though.