Are succubi and vampires truly evil when they need to do their thing in order to stay alive? Self-defense, sure...

Are succubi and vampires truly evil when they need to do their thing in order to stay alive? Self-defense, sure, but how can you fault and relentlessly hunt down a creature just for doing what it needs to in order to stay alive? It's like genociding tigers and bears because they eat humans.

Additionally, if they're self-aware creatures, wouldn't it just be better to just engage in diplomacy and work out a deal where you donate blood/semen to them in exchange for them not murdering humans?

Liches also only do what they do to survive, they have to eat people's souls or else their own will die out like a candle without wick.

In most settings, them being evil and also being parasitic aren't usually synonymous traits. Most of the time a succubus isn't evil just because they suck your soul out of your dick to survive, but because they're a demonic hellspawn made of villainy. Etc.

So like many a question on Veeky Forums, this can come down to "depends on the setting".

Succubus are usually plainly evil and cannot be reasoned with, vampires have more of an issue with self-control and ennui.

Worst meme, I'm glad only D&D does this garbo.

>Are succubi and vampires truly evil when they need to do their thing in order to stay alive?
Yes.

>Self-defense, sure, but how can you fault and relentlessly hunt down a creature just for doing what it needs to in order to stay alive?
You do what you have to do.

>It's like genociding tigers and bears because they eat humans.
Yes. And if some tiger or bear actually starts munching on humans that fucker needs to die.

>Additionally, if they're self-aware creatures, wouldn't it just be better to just engage in diplomacy and work out a deal where you donate blood/semen to them in exchange for them not murdering humans?
No.

Questions?

no actually,
liches WANT to die.
liches are powerful immortal wizards who have rotted away all morals and lost all humanity. their goal is to literally kill everything. to dissolve all forms. light itself into the black nothingness wherein they might ascend beyond their lich form. unbound from the light of all creation. total freedom in lawless chaos

I know this is just a "tfw no redeemed succubus gf" thread but I want to point out the reason these beings are considered Evil is because of some form of dark supernatural at work forcing them into an existence where they enact extreme violence on living human beings for survival. This is with both cases, because succubi don't crave semen, they crave your soul. They could fuck a sterile guy and still steal a bit of him in the process.

This isn't helped by the fact the vast majority of vampires and succubi come to be indifferent towards or even enjoy the suffering they cause. Oftentimes they have superiority complexes and blatant sociopathy, making "diplomacy" mostly unviable. Individuals who lament their curse and look for more amiable means of surviving is an older than dirt vampire story but the common thread is they aren't the norm.

TL;DR: vamps and succs are evil because evil made them, and most of them don't care about humans anyways.

The thing is, they'll either stop being bothered by it, or it bothers them so much that they stop and die. And when you kill innocent (or even NOT innocent, some might say) people and aren't bothered by it, yeah, that's pretty Evil.

They're not evil due to their nature, but it's still not evil to hunt down the creature in order to protect humans.

Imagine goddamn tigers could teleport from location to location, instantly vwipping into existence, mauling someone, scooping them up by the scruff of their neck, and vwipping away. Or if bears had hypnotizing eyes that could lure you into their caves and lay down with them while they hibernated, during which the bear could eat the shit out of you. Throw in bullet-proof hide and a few subtle weaknesses to counterbalance that.
If we don't have the power to protect ourselves from these uberbears and ubertigers, then we're pretty damn fucked. It's not as if we could just create a reservation or a zoo for them, because we simply don't have the power to control them.

Vampires and succubi are the same way, except they're a magnitude worse- they can only feed on sentients. UberBears and ubertigers could hypnotize and telefrag deer or gazelle or whatever, but vampires and succubi MUST feed on sentient, thinking creatures. And much like uberbears, they can't be controlled in the same way most creatures and threats in the world are controlled. Their nature incentivizes them NOT to feel empathy for humans or their society- and they have magical powers humans do not. This is literally predator vs. prey here, even if the prey has intelligence, technology, and tools.

It's a war, pretty much, for survival, and Good and Evil has no place in nature.

Also, as an aside: Human lives do not require the deaths of other sentients. Succubi and vampire lives DO require the deaths of other sentients. Assuming life is Good and death is Bad, a vampire hunter is doing less Bad by murdering a vampire than the vampire would, simply through preventing more death in the long run.

Also, succubi take literal lifeforce, not simply sperm/semen. Veggie vampires and vampires who take donations aren't counted for. Those guys are probably fine.

Evil, good, you give me or my mates shit - you are given tenfold that shit.

In your settings maybe. Regarding succubi, devils don't even need to eat in mine. They harvest souls just to fill their early quota so that their superior in hell doesn't chastize them for not working properly.
As for vampires, just bloodsucking isn't a problem, the problem is that once they've tasted the blood they will not stop until draining the person dry.

>how can you fault and relentlessly hunt down a creature just for doing what it needs to in order to stay alive

Easy: it's hurting/killing innocent people, therefore it needs to be destroyed.

It's evil because it's a reasoning, conscious being that chooses to harm others instead of self-terminating.

Depends on the setting, but typically succubi are lesser demons, and vampires are people willing to murder innocents to extend their own lifespan, so obviously both are evil.

I would say they are evil due to being coagulated masses of negative emotions and traits of mortal psyche that just enjoy causing suffering because that's what they do. Not because they have to eat soul stuff.

But as has been mentioned before , "depends on setting"

they have human psyches and the things that they are forced to do is what turns them evil over time

I mean, we do aggressively hunt any tiger or bear that does eat a human, because if they get a taste for it then they might attack and kill more. If it's a danger, you eliminate it. 'It has to do it' doesn't make it any less of a crime or something that needs to be stopped. It's why they're both kinds of monster.

They're an abomination that's already dead. Yes, they're evil.

>but how can you fault and relentlessly hunt down a creature just for doing what it needs to in order to stay alive
I can't fault them, but I'm going to kill them, because I'm doing what I need to survive.

The street works both ways. It's not evil to murder them, because they murder us.

It's not a matter of morals, it's a matter of them vs. us. They pose a threat. We want our existence and societal integrity to continue.

>The street works both ways
No, it doesn't. They're the fucking aggressor. Humans don't predicate on intelligent life (outside of the war, sickness etc, different discussion).

vampires are undead so they have no right to exist. succubi are demons and so dont NEED to eat. they just do it cus fuck you.

Also, they are objectively evil.
Smite with extreme prejudice!

>how can you fault and relentlessly hunt down a creature just for doing what it needs to in order to stay alive?
same way we fault and relentlessly hunt down dangerous animals just for doing what they need to do to survive

it's almost like things that hunt human beings are things that human beings take issue with and exterminate

>Are succubi and vampires truly evil when they need to do their thing in order to stay alive?
When the thing they need to do is evil, yes.
>Self-defense, sure, but how can you fault and relentlessly hunt down a creature just for doing what it needs to in order to stay alive?
Humans do that already, it's not any different just because the creature we're hunting looks like us but with fangs or a massive rack.
>It's like genociding tigers and bears because they eat humans.
We kill animals that kill humans.
>Additionally, if they're self-aware creatures, wouldn't it just be better to just engage in diplomacy and work out a deal where you donate blood/semen to them in exchange for them not murdering humans?
No. Vampires are known to be deceptive and you can't trust a demon, devil, or fiend. Purging the abomination is the only correct choice. You gotta smite ALL the evil.

It hinges on how much they say "Ara ara~"

Actually, D&D doesn't have soul-eating liches. Liches can even be good-aligned in D&D.

IIRC in 5th edition demiliches (really old liches who've become so disconnected from their mortal selves their bodies, aside from the skull, have crumbled to dust) will lose their mind over time unless they feed on souls.

Where do the Dark Eldar fall, then?
Are they tragic because they don't have any choice but to torture if they want to keep their? Or are they evil because they totally enjoy every aspect of it? Even though they have to enjoy it in order for it to work.

DE do have a choise. The Path of Eldar book features a striking scorpion who'se revealed to have been a former incubus who defected, and there's also a corais captain who'se a former DE turned full-time pirate who seems to not suffer from the thirst as badly as your typical DE. The DE books on the other hand feature a CWE exile who joinst the DE and begins to develop the thirst himself (which is at point he realises he's made a terrible mistake and has to get the hell out of Commorragh).
The implication is that the thirst is not an inborn curse that DE have, but a result of their lifestyle. If an eldar lives a life of rigid discipline and ascetism they don't attract the attention of Slaanesh, but if they live in a non-stop orgy of extreme emotions, sex, drugs, and violence they'll get She Who Thirst breathing down their neck and trying to suck their soul out.

I mean, "we're doing what we need to survive - and that is, killing succubi and vampires".

That's the part which is a two way street. It's not wrong to kill something that would kill you.

Fuck off, I've just finished another run, and it made me sad again.

The choice theoretically exists, but the vast majority of Dark Eldar would never be in a situation to take advantage of it. Similarly, most do not know any other way but torturing to keep their souls. It is likely not common knowledge amongst the citizens of Comorragh that they could defect to a craftworld, and any stories of such defections would probably be ruthlessly put down by the Archons.

Depends on the setting.

Most vampires are a virulent disease, so no, you cannot negotiate or make deals with them. Succubi are demons and nothign you get from them or give to them is not going to come back and bite you in the ass, so no, you don't negotiate with them either.

Fucking idiot.

In a setting with objective morality, yes. They disrupt the universe order.

Afaik, not in 3rd and 4th ed. Dunno about 5th, I haven't played it.

Source: your ass

Succubi: They're demons from hell that rape and drain life. Yes, they're evil.

Vampires: They're bloodthirsty perversions of life, devoid of all humanity. Yes, they are evil.

Another thread ruined by smitefags

Depends on their origins and the origins of their power. If their sole purpose is to kill humans/other sentient life then hell yeah they’re evil. If they use or harm others in any form then they’re probably evil, but a lot of this can be applied to humans and other beings so I don’t see why there can’t be good liches/vamps/succubi

A lot of these creatures were made to be hated, so I can see why you’d want to kill them. Nothing wrong here

>So like many a question on Veeky Forums, this can come down to "depends on the setting".

Cut out the specifics, and OP's question can also be viewed as thus: "When your existence is predicated on harming sapient beings, is your very being a moral failing? Should such creatures be slain for that moral failure that is no fault of their own will?"

>captcha: call sidford
hey sidford, what do you think?

>The thing is, they'll either stop being bothered by it, or it bothers them so much that they stop and die.
I don’t see why this should be the case. What’s stopping them from being bothered by it indefinitely?

>'It has to do it' doesn't make it any less of a crime or something that needs to be stopped. It's why they're both kinds of monster.
I dunno, I think a vampire that drains blood for fun is behaving less ethically
than a vampire which drains blood to survive. The latter would gladly stop drinking blood if some substitute could be found, but the former’s behavior is a deliberate choice, and will only change if they decide to stop drinking blood.

Succubi might be in a worse spot inasmuch as there’s probably no soul substitute.

>What’s stopping them from being bothered by it indefinitely?
It just seems to me that either the guilt would get worse or the guilt would get better.

Could hate themselves for it but not enough to end it

Wrong.

I've read a neat french comic recently, about a family of devout christian vampires that only drain willing terminal cancer patients. As a result they are immune to crucifixes, puzzling the hunters.

But nothing prevent vampires from feeding only on rats. WoD has cool vampire lore, in that the best you can do is act as a saint and hope that you manage to keep the beast in check.

Depends on setting.

>Duccubi don't crave semen, they crave your soul. They could fuck a sterile guy and still steal a bit of him in the process.
Depends on the setting.