How much do we actually owe Gary Gygax for our hobby? As some have put it he showed tendencies towards hyperbole...

How much do we actually owe Gary Gygax for our hobby? As some have put it he showed tendencies towards hyperbole, one true-wayery and unpleasant rants towards things that displeased him.He seemed like an utter twat.
We probably owe more to others and Ed Greenwood than him.

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Not a goddamn thing.

Fuck his Thou Shalt Play This Way.

About $3.50

How is Gary Gygax’s cuntiness relevant? Exactly how much he personally contributed to D&D is debatable but the hobby definitely wouldn’t be as popular as it is today without it.

Gary Gygax made Chainmail and put in a fantasy supplement for shits and giggles in it.
Dave Arneson, having heard of Braunstein, took the rules of the fantasy supplement and modified them for his own Blackmoor game.
They both collaborated on making D&D, Arneson had the vision but Gygax had the actual skill of putting it to paper.
Gygax then tried to keep Arneson out of the money train by making AD&D. For legal reasons they decided to maintain the recently made Basic D&D (legal mumbo jumbo BS why, but it was great that they did) and Arneson got a small cut of sales for AD&D.
Gygax sold out and Arneson sold out later.

Greenwood is that autistic spaz who wrote boxes worth of material going back years and years and sold his setting for a fucking pittance to TSR just so he could get on the hype train, only for TSR (and WotC later) to royally fuck his setting in the ass with no lube. Doesn't help that Greenwood gave basically no shits about it since he was making mad money from it and was busy making semi-incestuous deity/self-insert porn fics.

Also, Gygax was on a fuck load of drugs in the 80s (maybe the 90s too) but he calmed down before he died.

Gygax was instrumental in the formation and propagation of the roleplaying gaming, and by extension had a massive influence on the entirety of analogy gaming (and arguably video gaming as well).

Whether or not you like someone has absolutely zero to do with their accomplishments or influence.

Is that due to his own doing or others' efforts? He started off as an abrasive shit who only became increasingly senile.

It just seems like they used his name and the popularity snowballed in spite of it, his early work was pretty abysmal.

Others had the same impact or did more, even if their names got pushed off. Fuck that shit.

Listen, Gygax and Arneson got the ball rolling and their game (despite it having gone through different editions and iterations) it is still the most popular and most played tabletop RPG that helped innovate games and inspire people for 4 decades. Gygax gets a little too much praise and such, but he did revolutionize and help introduce tabletop roleplaying (and by extension all RPG video games as well).

I still contend Arneson needs more praise though.

>specifically ignoring that he specifically wrote "play it your way" in every single book he ever wrote on gaming including the rules to D&D
Confirmed for moron.

That's just it, people need to get over their hero worship. He doesn't deserve it.

Yet he was still an abrasive ass, especially in Dragon magazine. You seeing shit is all on you.

Really?

Read his shit in Dragon magazine. Of course he has to autistically say or no one would buy his shit.

Care to cite me some of those abrasive asshole remarks? Everyone whose met him in person said he was friendly and easygoing.

Came here to post this.
It's an old joke, but it's still fuckin' funny.

His many scathing reviews and remarks in Dragon. Sure you have hero worship, that's good for you but it's about time to take off the rose tinted glasses.

>I hate guy
>everyone must hate guy
>I make thread so everyone hates guy
>WHY YOU NO HATE GUY!!!!?????

You're pretty fucking autistic, buddy.

Sounds like you have personal issues.

Really? It seems like a good summary of your thread.

>We probably owe more to Ed Greenwood
please stop posting

Dragon Rumbles in Dragon 65.
Sounds like you're fucking autistic. At least I'm giving reasons instead of pretending nothing like this ever happened or continue to worship blindly. Pieces of shit seem to flock together.

See There's no need to be upset, buddy. Your hero can still be your hero even if he's a shit. At least he's not as blind and retarded as you.

No, most of us just aren't autistic enough to complain about a dead person who helped create a hobby we enjoy for literally no reason other than to complain about a dead guy.

Sure, continue your deluded hero worship. That doesn't stop the fact he was a fucking cunt.

>I HATE A GUY FOR SOMETHING HE WROTE OVER 27 YEARS AGO!!!!!!!

And you have the nerve to call anyone else autistic.

>STOP LIKING THING
>no
>AUTISM!

That's entirely your own doing, so good for you for incredibly, severely autistic. I gave reasons at least. If you want to act like the equivalent of sticking your thumbs in your ears and screeching at the top of your lungs, good for you, buddy.

You seem to be far more of a cunt than he ever was.

It's okay to stop being autistic.

Cease your sniffling, you goddamn pansy shit. Read Dragon Rumbles in Dragon 65 as an example of his cuntiness, you fucking autistic moron.

ITT: people who can't handle the friendly hyperbolic banter of a long dead man, and people pretending to be people who can't handle friendly hyperbolic banter of a long dead man.
>thinking Gary had some neat ideas is "hero worship"
>thinking he's anything other than the literal founder of p&p is "hero worship"

It's okay user. Show me on the doll where you got grabbed by Gary Gygax's ghost.

There's friendly and there's being a cunt. It's okay if you can't distinguish between the two, nofriendo.

Again, you're beyond autistic if you can't put something behind you that happened over 37 years ago. That's some severe psychopathic hate there.

Again, There's no need to be upset, nofriendo. It's okay to critique someone for being a cunt. This is normal, pretending otherwise or holding him up on a pedestal is beyond autistic and utterly retarded.

Well, if we're going by single examples, this thread pretty much paints you as a hateful asshole who calls people he doesn't know names for not agreeing with his diatribe about someone he doesn't like.

>I'm going to make all these assumptions about you based on the fact you're treating me like the asshole I'm acting like
You may want to see a therapist about your anger issues.

If we're going by single and multiple examples, there are multiple instances of people being hateful assholes who call me names for not agreeing with their own shitflinging and autistic screeching.

>read Dragon 65
>still have no idea what this user's problem is
Although you could call it rambling by his part, I don't really see it as being cunty.

Also:
>someone was annoyed once and wrote something
>confirmed cunt forever
Sorry, what?

And they're not wrong either, since anyone who disagrees with you earns your hate and name-calling for not agreeing with your opinion.

Whatever will help your crying and help heal your hurt feelings.

That's only one instance, he's not guilty of only autistic screechfest. And neither are the autistic assholes in this thread.

So is it "I was only pretending to be retarded!" or is it "I trolled you all! Hahaha!"?

No, it's the other way round. But don't let your delusion stop you. This entire thread apart from me is filled with insanely deluded people.

>anyone who disagrees with you earns your hate and name-calling for not agreeing with your opinion
Match and game.

Have you read the other posts or do you prefer your own delusion and like to exist in your own bubble?
The irony and hypocrisy in your post is insane. Pot meet kettle

user, I have seen no proof of Gary being a considerable wanker, besides you saying he is.

I'm not the one holding a grudge against a dead guy for doing something decades ago. I'm the one poking fun at someone for doing so because he can't cope with the reality that people might have differing opinions.

Read Dragon. There's a difference between wilful ignorance and active ignorance.

This is very poor trolling. OP is spending far too much energy trying (and failing) to get a rise out of user.

Seems like a great deal of people are bizarrely upset and deluded though.

No, just one.

Haven't been keeping an eye on the poster count, huh?

Nah, There's a lot. The only one not deluded or autistic is the OP.

???

Sounds more like a case of narcissistic personality disorder with displaced anger and possibly a measure of unfulfilled self aggrandizement, really.

Good to see you've diagnosed Gary Gygax. Is there nothing your genius mind can't do?

Nah, Gygax was obsessive compulsive with habitual trust issues (as in too trusting) and a case of really fucking bad luck.

"Pettiness, jealousy, and spite are not part of a professional attitude."
- Gary Gygax
Dragon Rumbles
Guest Editorial
Dragon Magazine 65
September 1982

I bet it's never occurred to the poor, sad user who posted this thread that a man could be having a bad day. Especially if it's one specific piece of evidence he touts as his reason for hating Gygax so. I mean, he could have had a fight with his wife. He might have dropped a coffee cup and spilled hot coffee on a favorite shirt. Hell, this guy could be the reason Gygax was upset in the first place for being a dumbass and asking a really stupid question.

It's not like we can ask the dead guy, you know?

>This entire thread apart from me is filled with insanely deluded people
holy shit that is a textbook example.

He was still a cunt. But I know you don't understand social cues.

Sure, but when you're writing in a professional ptoduct, you need to write professionally. You need to know how to separate your work and life. If you can't understand that then you shouldn't be writing.
It's not like Gygax could act professionally you know.

Your excuses for him are pretty pathetic. Also, read more Dragon, that's only one instance.

Yeah, the poor deluded autists in this thread apart from the OP are goddamn numerous.

>it's okay not to act professionally in a professional product
>your poor, deluded fans will still hero worship you

Honestly, Arneson was far more of an asshole in his writing for Dragon. Greenwood was a self absorbed asshole who couldn't handle criticism and god forbid you disagree with his ideas.

Actually, the editorial, which is a format specifically for venting a subjective opinion, that user cited was very clear in its purpose and source.
It also was professionally written and hardly abrasive or ranting. Hell, by Veeky Forums standards it's a damn love letter.
It was an overly long infodump on the perfectly understandable reasons why TSR was pulling their products from a competitor run convention but still continuing their own, previously established convention.
That's it, give or take 3,000 words.

And what's your excuse, user? Do you have one?

...

Do you want to cite that?

I'm trying to dispel your hero worship of a flawed, hypocritical man. But do you whatever doesn't hurt your feelings. Stay salty and deluded.

...

annarchive.com/files/Drmg065.pdf

Yeah, I think you're pretty much talking out your ass, kiddo.

Read dragon magazine, esp. Letters to the Editor..

Read Dragon

Did you even read the same article?
"There is no reason for GAMA, as it does nothing but attempt to sponsor am event which was formed to compete with the Gen Con show, lessen it's repute and seemingly teach TSR where we belonged."

>only what I say goes.

]

And what makes you assume I have any sort of hero worship? Oh yes, your insane ranting that anyone who disagrees with you is an autistic idiot, and anyone whose opinion isn't yours is stupid. Never mind, question answered!

How about cite me something specific like I did. Or don't if you think continuing as an autist is what you want.

Except he's not wrong about that at all. It's a statement of fact, not even an attack.

Clearly in your minds, Gygax can do no wrong.
But please continue to screech, it's highly amusing and eminently descriptive of what you are.

>You're deluded because you're deluded delusion make you deluded and double delusional dumbass on you!
It is sad when anons consider this arguing.

I have no opinion on Gygax, but dumb shits posting witless namecalling instead of arguments are transparent and pathetic.
To be clear, I am not name calling there.
I am asserting that if your post consists of nothing but namecalling, it is a pathetic attempt at posting.

>I'm trying to dispel your hero worship of a flawed, hypocritical man.
Are you though?
Trying implies effort beyond name calling.
If you have a substantial point, make it and support it.
If you provide a citation, explain how your citation supports or proves your point.

I am I think you misinterpreted my post, unless you consider that quote to be "abrasive."

And the bit where he says "some are openly hostile GENCON gatherings" and "it would an GAMA members view conventions as another thing entirely" on TSR primarily benefiting the public.
It's laughable really and extremely petty of him.

Why should we bother? It's not like you can actually read anything in any objective manner, as illustrated by your using one issue of one magazine out of context to prove your "point".

Did you go to either of those? Because really, he wasn't speaking out of turn there at all.

Read the thread, dear, it's not hard.

At least I cited when asked to and actually gave supporting evidence. I did ask myself why I bothered considering you'll just draw and make up your own evidence.

See
>Except he's not wrong about that at all. It's a statement of fact, not even an attack.

Also, he is talking about competing conventions that coexisted for a long time until TSR disapproved of their competitors actions.
He is not declaring that only THEIR convention can exist or "only what I say goes", not even a little.
Poor reading comprehension is no substitute for adequate citation.

Except everyone whose read the article aside from OP has pointed out that OP is very much off base.

Did you?
Professional courtesy still asks you don't act like a little bitch. There's one thing to denigrate and denigrate without reason because you can't abide by competition.

>Read the thread
I did.
Hence my post, dear.

Then take off your rose tinted glasses. If you can't see the hypocrisy in what he says there's no helping you.

>providing information as to exactly the feelings that caused a major game company to pull out of GEN CON is being a little bitch

Considering his feelings on the matter, he was exceptionally polite and far less rube or emotional than he should have been. It was very clearly the ethical issues and not the competition that cause the withdrawal, as if competition had been the issue they should have stayed in to remain competitive. your reasoning seems unduly flawed by your distaste for the person.

If your argument is that Gygax' post can be seen as petty, and he said himself that pettiness is unprofessional - I'd say that point IN ITSELF is pretty petty.

>then he should have been
He clearly didn't like competition. Everyone else is out to get him. And it was hypocritical of him to act petty while saying pettiness, jealously and spite is not part of a professional attitude.
All of the above is prominent in his article.

Yes, glad you agree his soap box wax lyrical is hypocritical and petty. Especially hypocritical considering what he said.

My adoptive father did. He goes on about them quite a bit. He rather liked the TSR team a lot.

Gygax was quite polite and rambled quite a bit in his response letter to me, but he never said anything bad about any of the people he worked with or dealt with, before, during or after his stint with TSR. Hardly the attitude of a man who was bitter, hateful, rude, or denigrating. Still, it was a single letter asking about a different game system (Dangerous Journeys, to be precise), and while he may not be an exemplar of all things, he was definitely kind to an imaginative young person who wrote to him and didn't expect anything more than a perfunctory answer.

But I can see why deluded autists wouldn't want their hero to be criticized.

Are you kidding? There WERE people out to get him.

Ironically, no one in this thread is saying he was a hero or perfect.

There's a level of bias there. Taking what Gygax in his article, he does sound petty and more than a little spiteful at the success of others.
But good on him for not acting like a dick to a young person. I mean that should be normal behavior regardless but good on him.

That's delusional. There were people trying to take his share of the business but that's not out to get him. That's fucking delusional. But I guess that's par for the course for this thread.

>And the bit where he says "some are openly hostile GENCON gatherings" and "it would an GAMA members view conventions as another thing entirely" on TSR primarily benefiting the public.
You mean:
>"Some are openly hostile to GEN CON gatherings, some appear to work sub rosa against these events, others of GAMA refuse to mention anything about any GEN CON convention."
and
"Conventions are not a source of money to those who run them. They are a drain. A convention can only be viewed as worthwhile in terms of service to hobbyists and as a publicity vehicle — the latter only if major media attention is gained by the event. TSR runs its conventions as a service to gamers, with a goal of making them break even financially someday. That way we can help to sponsor more of them. We gain publicity through other means. We advertise and promote to find new gamers. It would seem GAMA members view conventions as another thing entirely."
?

>It's laughable really and extremely petty of him.
It really isn't.

>Professional courtesy still asks you don't act like a little bitch.
Now you're paraphrasing the Gygax quote above.

>There's one thing to denigrate and denigrate without reason because you can't abide by competition.
This is also his entire point.
The difference is that he did in an editorial and TSR did it through the action of withdrawing their products from a competing convention.

If you want this citation to be worth anything, you'd have to show evidence that the other convention acted appropriately and therefore Gygax's response was unwarranted.
Get to that or cite another of these reportedly numerous examples of him "being a cunt".

>If you can't see the hypocrisy in what he says there's no helping you.
If you are calling their responding to a competitor's actions with their own, not dissimilar actions, I would say that it's not really *that* hypocritical to respond in kind once sufficiently provoked. First Blood user.

Ironically people still downplay or excuse what he did.

>There were people trying to take his share of the business but that's not out to get him.
In what way?