Let's say you were DMing Star Wars...

Let's say you were DMing Star Wars. Obi Wan just got a nat 20 on his roll to persuade Anakin that Chancellor Palpatine is evil.

Would you stop this duel and allow Anakin to change sides?

No, because Anakin would roll a nat 20 Insight check to see that Obi's lying.

This is mostly correct. Anakin already has a special trait that allows him to see through the lies of the Jedi.

That's dumb as hell, because he wasn't lying. He would no with absolute certainty that it was the truth, and since his player would see the 20 sided die he wouldn't doubt it.

You can't crit on skill checks.

Rolled 13 (1d20)

Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!

You can't nat 20 on a d6 system.

If I was DMing Star Wars, I'd change a lot more than just this fight scene.

That's not important though when you consider that from Anakin's point of view the Jedi were evil. He knows that Obi-Wan is either lying or misguided, which good rolls can't change.

No, that's dumb, Nat 20 is just sucess within the scope of the character's capabilites not reality warping, Anakin was too far gone.

No, because natural 20s don't matter for skill checks, and because FROM MY POINT OF VIEW THE JEDI ARE EVIL

Rolled 19 (1d20)

From my point of view the Jedi are evil.

Roll initiative.

>Original Trilogy
GM runs an absolutely superb campaign. The setting is shallow but creative, and everyone brings interesting characters. However the GM isn't working alone, but is constantly getting feedback from others who aren't playing to the point most of the memorable moments weren't his ideas anyways.

>Prequel Trilogy
GM returns for a new campaign. This time he has no creative feedback. He proceeds to alienate his players with dumbfuck plothooks all in service of an obvious railroad. No one can manage an interesting character and by the time it's all over everyone's disillusioned with this game universe.

>Sequel Trilogy
GM has long since moved away, but a younger player from the first campaign says he's gonna run a game in that universe now. He tries his best, but his plots spin their wheels like a motherfucker and it's obvious he's more invested in the "brand" of the game than telling an actually interesting game story. One player loves it, one player is ambivalent, and the third player fucking hates it. Third Player constantly shittalks the game even though it's overall better than the last campaign, and he relentlessly picks on First Player's character even though that character is in no way incongruous with the PCs in previous campaigns.

Overall a pretty sad state of affairs. I would've just told GM to leave things at the first campaign.

nat 20 doesn't mean instant success with skill checks. Obi Wan would have to overcome a DC 45 obstacle probably to convince Anakin that the Jedi are good at this point in the movie

Anakin accepts he is on the evil team now and goes to give more younglings his ark Greetings.

Don’t defend MaRey Sue.

I see Third Guy found this thread

fuck off mouse shill

Rolled 15 (1d20)

I have a high ground

Rolled 20 (1d20)

You underestimate my power!

Rolled 1 (1d20)

YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POWER

Rolled 19 (1d20)

I attack the sand.

Fuck. I guess yelling doesn't help

Rolled 10 (1d20)

Its coarse and gets everywhere

...

Rolled 19 (1d20)

This is where the fun begins

Rolled 7 (1d20)

It's treason, then.

Rolled 7 (1d20)

Now this is podracing

HALT JEDI DOGS

Rolled 17 (1d20)

Roger roger

Rolled 4 (1d20)

Die CIS scum!

Not that asshole but I'd agree MaRey is a Mary Sue in TFA. she's anything but that in TLJ. Problem is TLJ is absolute horseshit compared to rehash BS of TFA

Anakin yer breakin' muh heart

You forgot to mention how the sequel trilogy DM keeps bringing in old characters from the first campaign as NPCs just ao he can kill them off for emotional points

I guess it can be argued that going from Mary Sue to character-shaped dishwater is an improvement, but she's still pretty bad.

You forgot to add that the new campaign's GM has a pet favourite player and he allows her character to do absolutely anything she wants with no effort.

Rolled 8 (1d20)

You liar! You’re with him!

Serious answer?
No, because persuasion isn't mind control. Anakin's already dead set in his belief that Palpatine is right, and he's already bound himself completely to the Dark Side.
I might roll some kind of Will/Insight for Anakin, and if he fails narrate Anakin's reluctance to fight, have him try to convince Obi Wan, or give him some small penalties to his attacks as the seed of doubt starts to creep into his mind. But ultimately, Anakin has made his choice by the time this scene comes along, and while Obi Wan might catch a glimpse of the man Anakin used to be, he's still destined to become Vader.

In the context of everything, Anakin would probably be a PC as well, so I probably wouldn't allow a persuasion roll against another PC regardless unless Anakin's player agreed to it. Even then, if the roll still happened, I'd remind Anakin's player that yeah, Kenobi makes a valid argument that Palpatine is evil and it probably even resound in Anakin's character, but he doesn't need to stop the duel and join up with Kenobi if he doesn't want to, and might even remind Anakin's player of his past motivations (saving Padme, Jedi supposedly being corrupt, etc.).

As Anakin trips and falls into the lava, nevermind jumping and getting sliced up.

Yes, because I'm not one of those FAGGOT ASS DMs that straight up tell the player no, because
DM Fiat>Player Roll for the sake of the plot that you work so hard to write up, but now it's threaten to be toss out because a player rolls a critical good result.

Player: I roll a natural 20 plus my extremely high diplomacy bonus, does he change side?
DM: No, because you have to kill him.

Fuck those DMs and you happen to be one of DMs, fuck you.

This.
Also rolls are only made when an action can succeed and fail. You don't roll for breathing, by the same token you don't roll for impossible actions.

>not a Mary Sue
She’s an even bigger Mary Sue this time. The baffling part is she is a Mary Sue that does literally nothing of particular interest except show us how cool she is without even trying.

It’s beyond bad writing.

I would allow the fact of Obi-wan bring Anakin's friend, brother, and master to weigh heavily in his favor and rule it convinces him, but Anakin has gone too far at that point and will probably try to kill himself.

No.
Plot pillars are fixed points.
Players play around it and have their own saga influenced by the events but not piggybacking them.

Would depend if Anakin was a player or an NPC. I always hate the idea of forcing a player to do things because somebody made a good charisma check, takes away player agency. If you want to convince them, do it in RP, don't just roll.

>PS2 game alternate ending
>movie ending

It's like pottery.

At the same time though, having your villain switch sides because of a single good roll is retarded. Rolling that well opens up the possibility of turning him back in my books. In my eyes, the persuasion roll is for tone and body language etc. You still have to say the words, like it wouldn't matter how high you rolled if your argument was word for word "Hey join me instead your master is a nerd"

>She’s an even bigger Mary Sue this time.

...wait...how? She constantly fails.

>Wrong about Luke
>Wrong about the force.
>Wrong about Luke again
>Wrong about Kylo

Literally the only thing she does that worked out like she planned was finally lifting the rocks at the end.

I'd have him flee the scene, using the force to propel that little floating platform, screaming about how it couldn't be true, and that he'd find out for himself.
Then Obi Wan would get delayed and follow him and arrive just as a fight between Anakin and Palpatine ended, with Anakin delimbed similarly to how it happened originally in the fight between Obi Wan and Anakin. Then, depending on how Obi Wan rolls, he could either get a surprise round on Palpatine and rush the motherfucker, or try and earn some bonus points by being a hero and yelling for Palpatine to stop or something. Either way they'd fight, Palp would probably drive him off, who knows. Palp was really fucking strong, after all. But maybe Anakin would use one last burst of the force or something to throw him off letting Obi get the kill, and they'd have a touching, bonding moment. I'm a bit torn on having him either return to the light side and end up as some sort of light-vader, with the suit and all, or just having him up and die, what do you guys think?

Rolled 8 (1d20)

Roll for autistic screeching

Oh, no, worse, it's not a favorite player, it's their GMPC. Because of course.

Thought you meant literally flying away with the force, not just using that platform. So I couldn't get out of my head the idea of him floating away like Mary Poppins, screaming about how from his point of view the Jedi are evil

Hilarious. A sith Mary Poppins.

She’s stupid idiot. But she’s a stupid idiot that can just do pretty much whatever with the force and has no lessons to learn or training to go through, she solves her “issue” if you can even call it that on her own and even Yoda is like “fuck your luke and fuck books she doesn’t need them” and it just. So. Fucking. Bad.

I honestly cannot understand what they’re going for here. Rey is a goddamn baboon who’s still insanely powerful except when she’s confused Or has a lady knee I guess

That Yoda thing was cause she stole the texts before hand. She was a mary sue in the first movie, but not in the second, they actually managed to improve there. Doesn't negate all the other problems and plot holes though.

>Yoda is like “fuck your luke and fuck books she doesn’t need them” and it just.

No? She had the books, that's why Yoda says she already has everything she needs. It was Yoda being the little green troll he's always been.

Course it does raise the question if he can force ghost lightning a tree why doesn't he do it to literally anything else? Even if he can't do it on force users, dropping some mooks would be infinitely helpful in the situation they were in.

>defending a literal mary sue
Found the soyboy.

I mean, that already rather applied with the force ghosts as it was. Why didn't GhostObi wander into imperial places and then tell the rebels all about the defences there? Or tell them the second death star was a trap? Or even just distract Vader in his fight with Luke because his old master showing up out of nowhere to fight him would have certainly confused Vader for a few seconds.

A little moreso now but it's questions that were always there.

Natural 20 doesn't mean much if he doesn't beat the DC, and Obi-wan has never been much good at negotiations so I doubt his modifier is especially good. A natural 20 isn't an automatic success, it's just a very high roll.

Also, sometimes NPCs just aren't interested in negotiations.

have you been reading Darths & Droids??

4e's skill challenges provided some pretty good guidelines for this. Sometimes a skill is just inapplicable to a scenario or won't directly contribute to a win (But may help reduce failure/grant extra chances at stuff that will succeed). Diplomacy might have delayed the fight but it was always going to happen.

That and 4e's 'X successes before Y failures' really reduced the chance of anomalous rolls.

Instead of bothering his son, why doesn't the ghost of Hamlet's father go to his wife?

Cause it was the middle ages and they didn't think women were suited for that kind of thing.

>Woman screams about a ghost
"Clearly she's hysterical. We should ignore her insanity."
>Man sees a ghost.
"We should listen to this rational, respected individual."

Checks out to me.

>4e's skill challenges

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"I've got an idea! Skill challenges!"
>releases skill challenge system that doesn't work
"Okay, okay, fine, so we've got tens of thousands of copies of a book with bad math, which also carries over to our print run of the Dungeon Master's Screen, but that's fine! We'll errata it!"
>First round of errata fixes nothing, basic math is still failed
"Look, the IDEA is good, right? Also no one pay attention to the fact that the DMG, the errata, H1 Keep on the Shadowfell, and H2 Thunderspire Labyrinth all seem to be designed around four different skill challenge systems."
>A couple players over the weekend fix the system, WotC implements it after another round of errata.
"4e is the best edition of D&D ever!"

4rries seriously need to shut the fuck up about their system. I didn't come in here saying "Well, in 5E, this still might not be possible for Obi-wan if the DC is 30 and he doesn't have at least a +10 modifier to his Persuasion skill, which the movies don't lead me to believe he has".

Instead of bothering his son, why didn't the ghost of Mufasa go to his wife? Or, fuck it, all the lionesses?

>DMing
>nat 20
Fuck off.

Insight has...never been a strength of Anakin.

"YOUR FUN IS BAD"

>4rries seriously need to shut the fuck up about their system.

So which d20 system should people assume this thread it talking about? M&M? 3e? Infinity's 2d20? The thread was literally talking about how you'd handle such a thing in GMing and I mentioned how I would handle it when GMing the d20 system I run.

You are free to not like 4e, it's a free country but it's not like it was inapplicable to this thread to talk about a d20 system.

I’d say he has a character quirk that gives him a -5 to all insight checks honestly. And -5 to all cha checks and saving throws

Of course that just means Padme was at worst a Hard Seduction check but if you ask me she was actually an Easy one.

Hamlet didn't fucking tell anybody though, quit being a retard.
And yeah, I imagine back then they would believe a guy before a woman, thats how things were.

Except the question in OP is system agnostic, except that it requires a d20 system. The question isn't how you would handle the MECHANICS, the question is, with Obi-wan having rolled as well as he possibly can, would you stop the duel and have Anakin change sides?

Same reason they didn't attack Scar anyway considering he's an evil cunt ruining their territory, murderer or not.

And that's relevant to the way I'd be running it, as that would be 1 success for a skill challenge rather than all or nothing on a single roll.

Since we're playing Polaris, you actually need to roll low on the d20 to succeed. Obi-Wan rolling a nat 20 would carry out just like it did in the movie.

Then you are not being realistic and a bad story teller.

People have switch sides, because that one person said something that makes total sense and make them think twice of what they are doing.

Calm the fuck down. Literally the second post in this thread is referencing edition specific mechanics.

>Muh realism
Sacrificing your players fun for the sake of making the fantasy sci-fi game more realistic makes you a bad GM user

Silly token flaws that actually don't matter in the end is one of the main traits of a Mary Sue.

Mufasa was a good folk but born in another generation. He was kind of a sexist cunt in that sense. Also a bit bigot.

Well he rolled a nat 20, so my hands are tied. Anakin quickly agrees that from his point of view, the Jedi are good.

So what would it have required to be a 'real flaw' then?

So you're saying that bad guys should act like something off of a morning cartoon
where they act evil for the sake of evil?

>Rey is a stupid fuck
>this means she doesn't learn her force superpowers because she doesn't grasp the meaning of her teachers' lessons
>instead of saving everyone she fucks up and makes everything worst
>either resistance is fucked and it's her fault or someone else saves the day in the rocks scene
>movie ends with Rey being a failure
>In the 3rd movie she gets better, learns and triumphs

In the setting where that is literally the case in a majority of in universe situations then yes, if they wanted complex webs of intrigue and moral grey they wouldn't be playing in Star Wars.

>In order for the character to not be a Mary Sue they have to be a complete and utter failure in almost everything
>Compare to Luke, who was fighting reasonably well against the second strongest sith lord. Yes he lost, but he wasn't a complete and utter failure, and people don't see him as a mary sue.
You gotta toe the line user, you're going too far in one direction.

The thread should have stopped here.

So you want Rey to fail from literally the start of the movie to the end of the movie?

>Evil sith lord trying to convert a jedi to the dark side
Perfectly fine, it's part of story!
>Player try to convert a dark jedi back into the light
Not on my watch!
>But they convert him back to the light in Return of The Jedi!
That for my story later now, but right now it's to soon.

^ Is this fucking you, faggot?

So let me get this straight.

>PLAYER: I want to persuade Anakin that Chancellor Palpatine is evil.
>ME, the DM: Alright, what's your argument exactly? What do you say?
>PLAYER: *roll dice* NATURAL 20!
Too bad you made no attempt at trying to make a compelling argument. Automatic fail.

I'd politely talk to the player. Since this is a prequal and I'd rather not have a time paradox happen. Most players I'd want to play with are pretty reasonable people about not sending games off into insanity.

>His son had to be in a life or death situation after one and a half movies worth of working on him and trying to change him for him to make the decision to throw the extremely evil dude down an engine shaft
But no user, could have done that by rolling a 20, easy, doesn't matter at all.

>Obi Wan just got a nat 20 on his roll to persuade Anakin that Chancellor Palpatine is evil.
Anakin is convinced Palpatine is evil. However, he's still convinced the Jedi are also evil, and that, more importantly, Palpatine is his only chance at saving Padme. Roll initiative.

>Would you stop this duel and allow Anakin to change sides
What kind of fucked up role-playing games do you play? If let Anakin's player control his own damn PC

Obi Wan actually said something to convince Anakin to stop fighting and rethink
what he have done.

Last time I check, players are suppose to influence the story and the dm just tells it.

Luke lost. This is what matters. He went to save his friends when he was told not not and he lost, got his hand cut and his friend was captured in a gruesome way. There's almost no way for Rey to fuck up more than him. She would need to literally drop the mountain on the heads of all the rebellion and this is not what I'm demanding.

She can do whatever during the rest of the movie. Success, fuck up. It doesn't matter in comparison to the conclusion of the movie and how it will interact with the conclusion of the trilogy.