Tell me about those groups that fell apart and why

Actually I don't really see more people who take showers getting into the hobby as a bad thing.

I don't see how tabletop games can be affected by this except at the micro scale.

Even if the overall hobby is being inundated with normies, no one is coming to your house and telling you and your mates how to play. So it doesn't really affect you.

that all makes...sense! a rare thing on this board! well done!

Living is about dreaming, user

Except that the content, instead of being made for the purpose of giving enjoyment to the players is now being made to appeal to a wider audience of mouth breathers. So the notion that thinking through your moves with the purpose of winning is case aside and the gameplay is stuffed with bullshit dice rolls.

Tabletop games tend to rely heavily on a very specific product line from a very specific company, so it's fair to say individuals are affected by the community as a whole.

That said, most forms of complaining about it are typical head-up-ass whiny bitch preening. Huns at the gates, exile of the one true king, really a very epic tale of betrayal and loss that they started printing different flavors of elves than I'm used to.

I don’t like the “nobody’s coming to your house to tell you how to play” argument because basic player bleed means you will eventually need to find a new person, and once that happens the OP image happens.

If the gaming landscape is a series of islands, than there will come a time when you can bitch about the rising tides.

Most new players wise up to the realities of tabletop gaming pretty quickly.

I've been playing for years and never once have I met a rookie player go "Just like on Critical Roll!" or ask to play a demiqueer half drow or whatever other panic screeds I see fa/tg/uys push. Most newbies just lack imagination, which I frankly would rather deal with than the neckbeard screeching at me because I can't pronounce his octosyllabic elf name properly.

>Is this board really this compromised?
>posts pepe
It’s worse now

You know, I'm not sure any longer. I can't help but think of what happened to Marvel comics: In an attempt to attract a wider audience, they starting replacing the iconic heroes with minority / diversity replacements. (i.e. Female Thor, Sam Wilson as Captain America, X-23 as Wolverine, Cho as the Hulk, Iceman as a homosexual, and everything to do with America Chavez.)

The principle seems to be the same. In an effort to pursue greater legitimacy and reach a wider audience, they're pissing off the people who genuinely loved their old material. It was so disastrous, they brought in a man who used to pretend to be Japanese to cut out the rot.

Like, I would laugh this off as a neckbeard thing, but I've seen stuff like The Last Jedi. This makes me feel, increasingly, that there IS a death spiral that results from expanding your audience.

I mean, they should realize that they're not making high literature. They're making trash, they're making fast-food. All those people who longed to produce art films (and that shit with game journalists) that are socially aware? It's not what your audience wants!

Yeah, but you have to be an entitled jackass to bitch and moan about people enjoying a thing you enjoy just because you don't like them very much. At best, it's secret club no girls allowed bullshit. At worst, it's a delusion that people having badwrongfun are stealing your proper and righteous fun from you.

I mean, reread the OP image.
>In the beginning, I'm in charge so everyone has to do what I say!
>But then other people join, and there's too many of them for me to control!
>So then things change because these stupid dumbasses are too stupid to appreciate my brilliant taste!
>Then I have to leave my own hobby! THE HOBBY I CREATED! IT'S SO UNFAIR!
>Naturally, without my esteemed presence the hobby is doomed.

This isn't expressing mild sadness that your tastes aren't more common. It's not even bitching about other people having shit taste. It's a parody-tier tragic snowflake backstory. Replace 'the hobby' with 'the kingdom' and tell me you wouldn't wager 2:1 that the character has cat ears and heterochromia.

Fucking this. newbies don't go around throwing fits that you nano-aggressed them for saying you'd be available on new-years because that was somehow totally a stab at them even though they hadn't answered yet, and how dare you be transphobic because their life is very hard since their parents were never able to understand what it's like to be an ftm genderfluid a-gender demigirl.

Yeah I'm so sorry I got it oh wrong by using "you" instead.

Jesus F Christ, stay away from roll20 LFGs.

Except no one is changing what is already in the books you own. There are also thousands of indie developers on DriveThruRPG that can get you what you want, not to mention homebrewing.

Sam Wilson isn’t Captain America anymore though, he gave the mantle back to Steve in what was basically the cringiest series of limp-wristed events ever.

Marvel is also shitcanning all those comics because they're not selling.

Besides, the comparison doesn't work. When you see a movie or read a comic, you have to do so on the producer's terms. That simply isn't the case with rpgs.

The problem is, that doesn't solve anything! If you refuse to play new editions, you're being marginalized out of your own hobby! That's basically rolling over and admitting defeat.

It's like if 40K introduced female Space Marines. It would be retarded to go "Oh, you can ignore them if you don't like them." Obviously I would say "No, I think this idea is bullshit and it shouldn't exist. I'm not going to support you with my money, if you're doing things I don't like."

Remember how people say "just ignore the trigglypuffs, their words mean nothing"?

They gather up in groups, and that makes them look like something you can market to. Which gets them hired. Like say at Marvel. Then when it's not selling because they've completely up-ended beloved existing characters or had no idea beyond "is tranz" for the new ones shoehorned in, they blame the audience for being against their specific strain of LGBTQ

So good and bad news user: It's not a spiral... But it's someone drilling straight into the ground on purpose.

Exactly. It's a hostile takeover. Going "Oh, nothing to see here. Roll over. Don't resist." is really, really dumb. Why the hell would you not fight for what you love?

You have idiots like the people above claiming that there's no conflict, when they basically want to wipe out all resistance. The only sane response is to seize control of what you love, prevent corrosive ideas from spreading.

Comic books are shit, have always been shit, and should not be anything more than one hobby out of many others in your life. I don’t want you to become those people on Twitter during the election who used Star Wars and Harry Potter as “deep” quoted or rallying cries.

It don’t matter. Roll your eyes and just dissociate yourself from the industry, it’s been in the muck since Superman died the first time and it’s shown no signs of revival.

That's not really a new thing. I mean, there has been like 3 different people with the title Thor over the years and Sam Wilson earned the title more than say, Bucky, despite the latter having it before. Thor and Captain America at this point have been legacy characters a few times.

That and comics with 'minority' characters have sold well before. Ultimate Spider Man did fantastically, X-23 has sold very well in the past (Especially when they teamed her up with Vampire Jubilee). Marvel's issue right now isn't 'Diversity Heroes'. It's shittily written comics, like every other time Marvel has been in a slump. The issue with the broken down car isn't that it's red, it's that it isn't running.

It was a genuine attempt to murder Captain America and replace him with Sam Wilson for good. It was character assassination in every sense of the word. The last page of Secret Empire 10 showed Sam instead of Steve, even though Steve did all the fighting and Sam did jack shit.

Fortunately, people made how they felt about this shit so very, very clear, and we're finally getting pushback.

Again, what you're saying is 'abandon your hobby to people who want to corrupt it'. Don't struggle, just surrender, give up on what you love.

This is why all of Marvel lived in fear of one man with a cough and a youtube account. They tagged Diversity and Comics as public enemy number one!

>Why the hell would you not fight for what you love?
Except there's no hostile takeover, just competition. If you don't like the products you see, support the products and projects you do like. Or better yet, make your own. DriveThruRPG allows any indie to publish their own material. It's like the tabletop of Steam. No one can take it over, they can just give you some competition.

I moved to another state, we tried doing online sessions but it didn't work out.

How many times do we need to teach you this lesson old man?

>The only sane response is to seize control of what you love, prevent corrosive ideas from spreading.

Isn't that what both sides are trying?

Of course you see things through the producer’s terms when it comes to RPGs, it might not be as concrete as a movie but it’s certainly a bitch to replace. For example, I’ve yet to see anyone make a “traditional” setting for Blue Rose, just like you don’t see anyone lining up to add new pronouns to Only War.

>I can't help but think of what happened to Marvel comics
People stopped reading them, and started reading other comics instead. Which is exactly the problem with views like that of the OP: no-one is forcing you to play things you don't want to play, and there's plenty of good options to choose from.

>Again, what you're saying is 'abandon your hobby to people who want to corrupt it'. Don't struggle, just surrender, give up on what you love.
Nobody but you is saying that. What people are actually saying is play games you like with people who are fun to play with. Don't spend your time getting mad about the fact that things you don't like exist.

>It was a genuine attempt to murder Captain America and replace him with Sam Wilson for good.

Yeah and Eric Masterson was an attempt to get rid of Thor forever too.

What's your point? I'm very much on a side, and I want my side to win. Obviously, I don't want my hobby to be infested by liberal ideas, which means I'm their enemy by default.

If you think Luke was shit on in The Last Jedi, you're on a side, for example.

I’m saying comic books aren’t a good hill to die on.

>For example, I’ve yet to see anyone make a “traditional” setting for Blue Rose, just like you don’t see anyone lining up to add new pronouns to Only War.

I dunno, I've seen people bitching plenty about how they want to make it some sort of grim dystopia.

had two-player group, the one more engaged in the game moved away and I have no hopes of recruiting anyone in a shithole 20k easterneuropean town

The Clone Saga was a straight-up attempt to replace Peter Parker with Ben Reilly. It's not like there isn't precedent: I'm of the view that Eric Masterson was set up to die from the very beginning (He foreshadows it heavily, with thoughts of his own mortality), but attempts have been made before.

>If you think Luke was shit on in The Last Jedi, you're on a side, for example.

I rather liked 'Old cranky master' Luke. It also worked with the mirror of Kylo Ren they are doing with Rey (Where both of them are seeing what isn't actually there in those they admire). Perfect Jedi Master Luke would have been kinda crud and not really lined up with the series (Which has a pretty solid history of the last generation handing it's mistakes onto the next generation).

I mean, I can 100% understand why you didn't like it but I personally felt it worked very well for the story and was quite enjoyable.

>I'm very much on a side, and I want my side to win. Obviously, I don't want my hobby to be infested by liberal ideas, which means I'm their enemy by default.
This is the actual problem here. You think you're fighting a war first, and playing role-playing games second.

Blue Rose is such a boringly twee setting, making it a gritty dystopia is actually an improvement.

There's nothing to solve, bucko. This isn't a war, it's a bunch of grown men playing with dolls. You can enjoy your dolls and buy more dolls, or you can not enjoy your dolls and stop buying more dolls. Willfully doing the latter in the hopes that they'll stop making dolls for other people is generally known as throwing a tantrum. Most tantrums aren't worth solving.

Gimme a fucking break. Your vile enemy, which opposes all that you stand for, has infiltrated your hobby through gainful employment with the explicit intention of destroying it, and the only way you can stop it is to viciously seize hold of and try to micromanage it? Is this a comic book nerd's rant or a communist manifesto?

>The Clone Saga was a straight-up attempt to replace Peter Parker with Ben Reilly

And with how they handled it? Jesus Christ, they should have just stopped with Ben Reilly as Spiderman and let Peter actually have a good retirement as a character.

God, I thought we left that cringy “this world is actually a dystopian nightmare” phase in the aughts, while the world of Blue Rose has some troubles (the “antagonist” nation that’s not full of butterflies and free love supposedly suffered a catastrophic war that means every womb needs to be working) it’s clearly painted in familiar progressive colors.

Which is ultimately what this argument boils down to, isn’t it? The paint job on your vehicle for enjoyment.

>addressing OP premise instead of bitching about identity politics
normies get out reeeeeeeeeee

Why do people seem so intent on making Peter Parker suffer? I’m still reeling at the fact Gwen Stacy boned Osborne when the author of the comic literally wrote the kids were Peter’s, but nooooo the execs demanded it be something else.

Not that guy, but progressive colors always seemed kind of dumb to me. Dystopias are more fun to play in. It's why 40K and Game of Thrones are lastingly popular, and why every YA novel series is set in a dystopia.

It's worse. I read the comic, and it appears that Peter never actually slept with Gwen! It's actually mentioned at one point that he knew - with absolute certainty - that they couldn't be his children.

Not really? I mean, I'm not much of a fan of it but it's not really any moreso than playing a Star Trek game. Yeah, you've got a high ideals society but the book actually goes into a lot of detail about how people don't often live up to those ideas (And even the whole 'You must be a good person to inherit these jobs' system is flawed because it's once off and people don't tend to START political careers corrupt and jaded.)

Oddly enough, the 'antagonist' nation people talk about a lot? It's an ALLY of the main group in the same way that the Federation is an Ally of the Klingons in TNG. Both of them are allied against a much greater threat (A necromancer iirc?) and respect each other, even if they don't agree.

I've not really got much interest in playing it (It's far down my list of fantasy RPGs and I'm very meh on the mechanics) but it's not exactly as mindlessly twee as people seem to think it is.

Because Peter Parker isn't allowed to have long-term change. So he needs to stay the idiot who regularly learns the same lessons and gets put into situations where he can't stop being 'Relatable' by being properly happy with his life. The Clone Saga utterly fucked Spiderman and One More Day is one of the symptoms of the poison running through it, where writers are basically locked 100% into telling the same spiderman stories because they are afraid of the backlash of actually having him grow as a character.

Remember, the reason the Clone Saga HAPPENED is because Spiderman got married to MJ and they were starting to deal with different Spiderman issues and the writers wanted to appease 'Not the Spiderman I grew up with' by being able to hit the reset button and go back to young adult Spiderman.

I agree about the grimderp, but Blue Rose's antagonist nation is really, really clearly intended as that. They add a dusting of justification, but they're still jackasses and assholes in every way that matters. I'm not surprised people reee at it, though screaming about elk dictators is maybe a bit much.

Alright now I kind of want a corrupt ruling class of magical woodland animals. But played more for comedy than grimderp!

>Nobody is forcing you to play with normies, and if you don't like newer editions than don't fucking play them
>no-one is forcing you to play things you don't want to play, and there's plenty of good options to choose from.
I honestly don't get this weird "comfort mantra" you guys always shout when this discussion comes up. I'm not particularly invested in the whole gatekeeping thing but even I can see how retarded your argument is. The whole point of gatekeeping is that you want to keep, what you perceive as, negative influences out of your game. Saying that "you can just do other things lol" is utterly redundant. It's not what it is about. You could just as well say to the people who, in the gategeepers eyes, "ruin" a product that they should find something more to their tastes instead of demanding change in an already established product.

I love how well thought out that this is.
This happens every time huh? In this order? This is negligible. It's sad that you still think that there is a 'food chain' architecture to everything, and that this image just depicts girls 'ruining all the fun for the boys' shows that you are still a virgin that does not talk to anyone but your shit lord friend or two.
You are fighting straw men you troglodyte.

That’s not true at all, the author intentionally wrote her that way because he explicitly said during interviews that Gwen needs to make mistakes and be more palatable for modern audiences. More importantly, the author of that series said Peter’s continued love of Gwen makes him heroic and wonderful, and the fact you’re disgusted by it means you’re a piece of shit who can’t handle change.

I'm not sure. My beef with Dan Slott is that he constantly humiliates Peter. The Superior Spiderman was one long series of humiliations, and what followed wasn't much better.

It's just kind of mean-spirited. Most writers seem to forget that Peter used to be making a kind of forward progress. Hell, BATMAN has made plenty of forward progress, he even has a son!

This, it's a really dumb thing to say.

Conversely I dont see what 'gatekeeping' consists of ourside of whining and going "I told you so!" every once in a while.

Exactly. How exactly are you going to keep the gates to tabletop RPGs?

>You could just as well say to the people who, in the gategeepers eyes, "ruin" a product that they should find something more to their tastes instead of demanding change in an already established product.
Yes but usually that isn't the case it's just the gatekeepers reeeing about perceived change that no one asked for or will never happen and using it as an excuse to exclude groups. For example excluding people just because they are new for reasons that the person never actually did anything of.

>main guys are Federation
>"antagonists" are Klingons
I'm not sure how this contradicts the idea that they're brutish card carrying mooks who exist primarily to make the protagonists look good.

The necromancer is actually one of the cooler parts of the setting. Possibly the only cool part of the setting, actually. The world used to be ruled by sorceror-kings, but they were completely, UTTERLY drunk on their own power and evil, so the world went to shit. Some magical light or that asshole deer or something started leading slave rebellions, so the sorceror-kings all banded together and- pfffft no, they kept stabbing each other in the back figuring they'd single-handedly mop up the rebellion once they'd helped it topple their rival. The Dark Evil Lord is the last and least of these, inhabiting a frozen wasteland guarded by extreme mountains (since he was too shit to carve out a less isolated or desirable domain) and nobody's been able to dig him out of there since.

TL;DR: Skeletor's laughing at everybody.

>pic
Oh, come on, not the same "girls are there for attention" and "my game are ruined by casuals" bullshit again.
You just need to cherry-pick your players untill everyone is comfortable. Go invite someone from this guys and this lasses, never allow that dude to get even close.
Not that hard, huh?

The problem is not playing with women, it's playing with couples

>get together a D&D group with some other people in my dept
>play at a married couples' house
>know that this means trouble
>tell myself it'll be fine, they're married so it isn't like
>a couple months in the group stops meeting or even communicating
>I learn like a month later it's because they got divorced
>the DM had been leaving all his shit at their house rather than cart around a huge case of books, cards, figures, maps, etc
>the husband "lost" it all after the wife moved out

I almost feel bad for the husband because the DM basically spent half his life in law enforcement and half his life being a criminal. He's the most Chaotic Neutral man I know and I doubt he's going to take the loss of hundreds of dollars in gaming paraphernalia lying down.

I don't get how introducing females into a game you like as a vision of the creator or designer or what have is a "Hostile takeover" trying to invert your masculinity.
That's laughable. Get over it. They're not making it less fun to play, and they're not taking away your past.
If you honestly believe that this is going to ruin your game and that you need to be wary of enemies is true madness.

So explain how you, and we, as members of the audience, can be the 'gatekeepers.'

This.
gatekeeping is cancer.

>I agree about the grimderp, but Blue Rose's antagonist nation is really, really clearly intended as that. They add a dusting of justification, but they're still jackasses and assholes in every way that matters.

Eh, they are more 'Morally grey' rather than complete assholes. They do genuinely do a lot of good work, they are just rather paranoid about evil magic (Understandable when there is a nation of necromancers that threatens their very existence). Like they have laws saying that mental magic is only allowable on people with their permission (With Jarzoni confessors being good at it to help rehabilitate people with their permission).

Because the Klingons are not always portrayed as in the wrong? I mean, that's a large part of Worf's character in DS9. Where he's not sure if he'd be better off in the federation or the Klingon because he's got disagreements with both of them but ties to both of them. I wouldn't say that they are portrayed as Just as Good as the main guys but they are not villians either, being more morally grey. A lot of it comes from the fact that Jarzon...is just in a much worse place. They've got less good growing land and a much larger shitty border with horrible death than the main nation does.

To quote Star Trek: 'it's easy to be a saint in paradise'. The main nation is more focused on it's morality but it's also got an easier life in order to do so.

If you refuse to see the roasty for what she is then you will be the one getting toasty, mark my words

Vote with your wallets. Encourage people not to buy material that goes against the grain. Lambast and mock writers. Write letters to advertisers and to the company complaining about things you don't like. Take every chance you can to criticize it. Make Youtube videos going "The Last Jedi is shit, and here's why."

Hand-pick your gaming groups. Have high standards. "No, no female Space Marines. We stick to canon, or we don't play." Get into a position of influence within your community, and make rules that prevent corruption.

Cut off their sources of revenue. "Hey, the new Heroes of Diversity book is a shitshow. Here's the link to the book so you don't have to buy it, send it to all your friends. Download, don't buy."

Two points: first, that the Marvel move is failing/failed not because it decided to make more diverse heroes: it is failing because it did so poorly.

Iceman is outed as a homosexual against his will by a teammate.

Amadeus Cho's Hulk is actually fine, but then they had and arc where he teamed up with JEREMY LIN, THE ASIAN BASKETBALL PLAYER, an arc that was immediately followed by an extended arc of "And here he is fighting with THE OTHER ASIAN SUPERHEROES! ISN'T THAT GREAT?"

Sam Wilson's first like six goddamn issues were "AND NOW HIS VILLAIN IS RACISM!"

X-23 wasn't too bad, since Old Man Logan existed.

I don't even know who America Chavez is, and I work in a comic shop.

Female Thor was fine, because it was the one that just said "And now a chick is Thor, doing Thor shit, we're moving on."

If I can be pretty fucking hoity-toity for a second: I've had to edit Shakespeare for shows I've worked on in the past, and some guy once said "When you cut Shakespeare, you must do so as a surgeon: one hand holding the knife, and the other holding a stethoscope, listening for the heartbeat." Or some shit, I'm paraphrasing. The point is that when you're dealing with properties that have a complex history, with devoted fans, you have to be very careful when you fuck with them.

Like, you want a black, woman Iron Man? That's fine, just, you know, don't kill off fucking Tony Stark to justify it.

More importantly, those who are underrepresented don't want to TAKE your fucking Iconic heroes: they want their OWN heroes, who play at an equal tier. Amadues Cho hangs out with the other big Asian Superheroes in that Hulk arc. You know, people like Silk, Ms Marvel, and 3 dudes I had to look up to remember who the fuck they were. (In Marvel's Defense, forgetting Shang-Chi is more my fault than theirs.) (To counter that point, I would like to remind everyone that Shang Chi is canonically the son of Fu Manchu, the living embodiment of the Yellow Scare.)

>They’re not taking away your past

It was never about taking away the past, it’s about convincing you the present is better. Developers have time to nurture new demographics, you do not.

More importantly, it’s the “me too” culture that’s been fostered since the Aughts. Everyone wants representation, so when the white straight guys get relegated to evil duty or the bumbling NPC, people tend to get pissy.

Everytime I see this I genuinly can't say if the people agreeing with it troll or actually believe it.
I also can't say if the author wanted to troll or actually believe it.

Every single one of those things are things I do, and boy oh boy does it work. Use that frustration positively by explaining to people how a product is absolute shit.

Judging from this thread it looks like we're at stage 6 degredation.

All these fucking sophists kvetching about "If you don't like it, don't pay any attention to it", "This isn't a war! Stop paying attention!", "This picture was made by some grognard and I don't like that it wants to exclude me".

This board has been compromised for awhile. Nu/tg/ are just leftypol faggots from outside who are trying to co-opt the board. People who don't want or like "Gatekeeping" are as bad as the people trying to corrupt and degrade the hobby, Looking at you WOTC. Gatekeeping maintains the quality of a community, there is a reason why people live in gated communities, they can live with their own kind and don't have to worry about the more negative elements of society.

Ultimately anyone who doesn't have an agenda against the core RPG demographic can see OP's picture and can readily see similarities between it and their own experiences.

I mean I think OP's comic is kinda dumb as well. But really this much of a scrap over it? Not saying we all have to be fuckin hugs and kisses, but still.

At the end of the day ya should really just talk to your players like an adult.

>Dem Casual and Women
Outside my little jab not gonna be to hard on people that want to keep their gaming "pure". You do what ya want for ya game, but my experience has been pretty positive. So may just be that there is difference in experience when it comes the groups we have played with.

Addendum: The core of why Jarzon is like it is comes down to basically 'They've never had a chance for peace'. Hard life makes people hard and Aldis has an easy life, with strong natural barriers against invasion by the big evil of the setting. Jarzon on the other hand has never, ever had peace because they have a wide open border against it. They are more worried about dark magic because they are constantly under attack by it and they are more focused on everyone in a given role because they are a society that's been forced to be in a war for literally it's entire existence.

All in all, I think it handles it rather evenhandedly. They are not evil or even misguided, they are in a position that simply make them unable to stop and engage in societal change without risking destruction.

See, here's the thing. My problem is that they're replacing heroes.

Sam Wilson as Captain America? I don't care, just don't make him the ONLY Captain America. Don't make Captain America a Nazi to boost Sam.

Cho as Hulk? I could give two shits about Cho. I only want to read about Banner, don't kill off Banner so we have Cho-Hulk. I think Whor sucks, and I don't want to read about her...So don't make the genuine article Unworthy, so I can only read about Whor or nothing else.

Look at ReeRee - They put Tony into a coma so we would accept her as Iron Man. If she wasn't replacing the real Iron Man, she could fuck off and I wouldn't give two shits.

That's my complaint. Give your new diversity characters their own identity, don't push them as replacements. If you introduced Miles Morales as Spy-D, I couldn't give a shit about him.

It's like Ghostbusters. If you made a film about all-female paranormal hunters and called it 'Ghost Chasers', I would not have a single complaint. But try to remake Ghostbusters with an all-female cast, push diversity down my throat? Then you have a fucking problem.

And you don't see why that has the potential to backfire or push the property you are seeking to protect further into the 'enemy's' hands?

We can see that you are a retard.

I can do what I want, cunt

Isn’t the game about societal change and being a special snowflake though?

Every fucking thread

Of course not. The alternative is letting the enemy operate completely unopposed. This is why the Hugo Awards became a battlefield, and why GamerGate happened: If not for them, no-one would've gone "Hey, you know, I actually really hate the push for diversity in media and film."

Now it's become an open war, and that's all the better. Now everyone knows where they stand. You think Gawker would have died if no-one complained? One guy outright stated "Oh man, the GamerGaters hit us hard."

Stuff like Scarlett's Strike Force wouldn't have been canned if fans hadn't stood up and said "The book's a piece of shit, and so is the writer."

More about trying to keep society going (As PCs are generally the group that hunt down corruption within Aldis/find dark magic infiltrators). Sorta like Emerald Magistrates, if you've played L5R.

That's... what I said?

>those who are underrepresented don't want to TAKE your heroes, they want their OWN heroes.
>you want a black, female Iron Man, that's fine. Just don't kill off Tony Stark to justify it.

We're agreeing that the issue is that Marvel did this in a very stupid way.

Eh, they are more 'Morally grey' rather than complete assholes.
Most if it isn't really necessary of productive, though, and they're less effective than the good guys by a wide margin. They're pretty clearly filling in the role of uncouth barbarians who need to see the light of The Way We Do Things, but can be forgiven for their ignorance and barbarism due to the tough life they've had.

Put another way: Gimme something the not-quite-bad guys do better than the good guys, or something the good guys do worse than the bad guys. I don't recall anything from my (admittedly brief) reading at all, whereas the inverse is pretty much any feature they have (sexist, militaristic, paranoid, standoffish).

>Because the Klingons are not always portrayed as in the wrong?
Aren't they? I mean, I know there's exceptions here and there, but they always struck me as just that.

>Two points: first, that the Marvel move is failing/failed not because it decided to make more diverse heroes: it is failing because it did so poorly.

Pretty much. We're getting a repeat of the 90s edgy heroes with a new face. Marvel isn't doing badly because the comics are diverse, they are doing badly because the diverse comics are shitty because they have the most shallow view of the idea. Much like how they went 'Wow, these well written dark comics that put a fresh spin on things are selling well. Clearly it's the darkness alone that is making them work'.

All of that everybody already does without believing the tosh in op's picture

Their lifestyle should not get portrayed as having any good qualities. They are inferiors, if you suggest they’re somehow noble rather than uniformly sympathetic than you risk making people think they might have some good ideas.

We're hitting all the fucking checkboxes today ladies and gents

>marvel
>star wars
>someone even mentioned fucking redditgate

I fucking hate every single one of you

Yeah, I'm agreeing with you. I'm just mentioning my beef with Marvel.

>Put another way: Gimme something the not-q uite-bad guys do better than the good guys, or something the good guys do worse than the bad guys. I don't recall anything from my (admittedly brief) reading at all, whereas the inverse is pretty much any feature they have (sexist, militaristic, paranoid, standoffish).

Keep themselves alive. Aldis expressly would be destroyed if it was in the position that Jarzon is, geographically. Aldis has huge geographical advantages that make them able to be soft and live, Jarzon is in a much shittier situation and holding on. I rambled a bit about it You've got one nation in permanent war (And not remotely their own fault for that) and one that has time for peace and only the occasional conflict. A big thing with it is supposed to be 'Aldis should be doing more to help Jarzon', since Jarzon is a barrier against deal but a good amount of the Aldis nobility treat them as backwards savages because their situation is shitty and they've been forced to live with the world they have, not the one they want.

No, gamergate happened because of a lack of ethical behavior in games journalism.

And i hope you know that gawker died because of one man's actions who was unaffiliated with any of it.

As much as they claim nu/tg/ is leftist it's actually just that /pol/tards don't understand that the majority of people here don't give a shit about their "wars" and just want to play make believe with their plastic space men without someone screaming about political nonsense every 5 minutes.

So they’re uncouth savages that deserve our pity and bleeding hearts, that just makes it worse.

Why do you have to be /pol/ to disagree with progressivism? I'm a Chinese man, and I'm certainly not a white nationalist. I just find that what's being done to American media, the media I enjoy, is distressing. Chinese people, as a whole, do not like it either.

You know, it seems to me like Marvel is the one big talking point of the anti-diversity crew. It's almost like a script, it's the single example that they always fall back on. Whenever they need to point out how diversity ruins intellectual properties, they always revert back to Marvel. They never point any fingers at anything else, it's always Marvel which they use as the basis for the argument.

Mostly because Marvel is the only example of a franchise that has embraced diversity and also experienced a massive loss of audience. It's one of the few instances in which they can say "I told you so." And in fact, they're hungry for more. They're not-so-quietly praying for companies like Wizards of the Coast, Paizo Publishing and others which support diversity to roll over and die. No, they don't actually want them to get better. They want Magic and Pathfinder to outright lose support and die, even if diversity is unrelated to their deaths, so they can grin and say "I told you so" about more than just Marvel.

This isn't gatekeeping, this is a vindictive attempt to punish companies that do things you dislike, whether you consume their product or not, so you can use their downfall to promote your own political causes.

It's /pol/ because you are talking about politics on a board that isn't /pol/, this is not the place to do it if you want to bitch about "muh progressivism boogeyman" go to /pol/ that is the place to do it.