/hhg/ - Horus Heresy General

Blackshields are just super fun. The most customizable force in all of 30k.

Blackshields unironically represent CSM better than any 40k codex since 3rd edition, kind of a shame 30k is still stuck with modified 7th edition. It was fun being able to play against xenos and stuff without one side having to revert to an earlier edition even if the balance was kinda fucked up.

Never really thought about that, actually.

>Am I turbofaggot if I bring this to the table?
you're bringing a Titan in 1500 points, of course you are.

What's the smallest points value you wouldn't walk away from if your opponent out down a Titan?
I really like the fluff of the titan legions and I want to field something as close to a 'pure' Legio force as possible, without being a WAAC fuckstick.

The 25% rule is a pretty solid idea in the HH rules.
Given that a Warhound is 750 points, that would put the game at around 3000.
Though I suppose your opponents will be okay with it at 2500 provided that they know it's going to be there.

Hmm. What other Mechanicum units are fluffy choices to accompany Secutarii? Preferably as something that would be part of the Secutarii themselves, rather than a Taghmata auxiliary.

indecision killing me sons of horus or thousand sons. why must I be like this

Autek Mor, Kyr Vhalen, Caleb Decima, and Garviel Loken aren’t Blackshields.

Kind of a shame you can't take a 'scout' titan without the equivalent of a large 40k army swarming around its ankles

You can probably do it at 1500 if you arrange it with your opponent beforehand, just don't do something like this for casual games at a FLGS.
I personally don't think the Leviathan FOC is for casual games, but it's perfectly fine for arranged games.

As for what else would be appropriate for a Titan Guard detachment to support a Scout Titan.
In Heavy Support Krios Squadrons would probably work, to provide some anti-tank to help protect and screen the Titan
In Fast Attack I'd put some airsupport, because that is a pretty big weakness in Titans, they can't hit air targets.
In Elites, maybe some screening unit? Like a Domitar Maniple.

So uhh... is this game dead or what?

Yeah, but there’s no need to be rude about it.

>Nurgle = Death Seekers or Gene-Bulked to ignore leadership or get psuedo-plague marines
>Khorne = Berzerkers for obvious reasons
>Slaanesh = Lone Wolves for perfectionist duellists
>Tzeentch = Outlanders or Gene-Bulked for easy deep strikes or psuedo-rubrics
>pick anything you want for renegades or Undivided
Huh, it works pretty well.

Sorry senpai.

>ad-hoc force that renounced their original loyalties entirely and doesn't fight entirely under the authority of the Warmaster or Emperor
idk Mor, Vhalen and pre-Knight Errant Loken all fit in that category well enough, and even after Istvaan Loken forsook the heraldry of the SoH

How is that retarded? Their instructions are simply:

>1. Prime black.
>2. Airbrush dark gray.
>3. Highlight with a mixture of dark and medium gray, by airbrush.
>4. Highlight with a mixture of the above plus light gray, by airbrush.
>5. Paint bronze areas with a dark gold and highlight with a medium gold.
>6. Paint silver areas with gunmetal and highlight with a silver.
>7. Wash with dark gray.
>8. Re-highlight gray with light gray and then light gray + white. (This step uses GW colors because it uses a brush, and these instructions were written before GW released its air colors).
>9. Re-highlight the gold areas with medium gold.
>10. Re-highlight the silver areas with silver.

Or to put it another way:

>Prime black
>Dark basecoats on the armor, gold, and silver
>Highlight those three areas, with more gradation on the armor because it's the main part
>Wash everything together
>Re-highlight the three areas, again with more gradation on the armor

Grays are either cool, neutral, or warm, and it looks to me they've used cooler grays. I think the first line in pic related is closer to what you want than the one further down that uses Mechanicus Standard Gray as a base.

Most of the 1500pt games I see around here are Centurion mode, so hardly anyone has serious anti-tank with them.

youtube.com/watch?v=5w1sCCgBPCk
>BobbyG is confirmed to appear in movie
Other inferior primarchs, especially Fulgrim eternally BTFO.

>Secutarii units may be inclouded in the Taghmata Omnissiah army list and it's Ordo Reductor variant, but unless the Detachment they are part of includes a Titan (of any classification) they may not be used to fill cumpulsory choices as part of a Force Organisation chart.
>Detachment
RaW, you would have to replace one of the Secutarii squads with a different Mechanicum Troop choice, and wouldn't be able to take the Axiarch at all in a Leviathan list.

Seems like an oversight to me, given the Secutarii's role, but still.

Thats a regular marine in Gravis armour, you dolt

>gravis armor in 30k
He said Gathering Storm helped nail his look, and its his animated model previously shown on channel.

He included a Titan though, so he can use Titan Guard as compulsory troops.

How is Old Earth? Can someone give me a rundown?

No, because anything other than Lords of War in a Leviathan FOC have to come from an allied Detachment, i.e. a different detachment from the Titan.

Isn't the artist a woman?

How'd you guys choose your first army? I ordered inferno when it came out and I'm split between the factions in it. Cant decide whether I wanna paint and play 1k sons, wolves, or black custodes. I've already got a 40k SW army with a few 30k pieces in it, but not sure I like how they play in 30k.

not sure, either way they're pretty chill in my book

There's basically three different stories mashed together:
>vulkan has come back to life on nocturne, meets a few of his sons but swears them to secrecy
>vulkan has forged an amulet, but doesn't know why
>they enter the webway in a portal deep under mount deathfire
>pass through commorragh, vulkan beats up kheradruakh
>briefly meet up with meduson (see below), vulkan beats up a robot
>enter the webway again, now near the palace, but can't get through the daemon army, vulkan beats up a great unclean one
>eldrad teleports them onto Terra proper, vulkan goes to meet Emps, after vulkan bench-presses a wall to save some civilians
>Emps tells vulkan his mystery amulet is a self-destruct button for the throne which will destroy Terra, and his duty is to press the button if Horus wins
>vulkan says okay

>meduson is doing pretty well avoiding marr and raiding the traitor legions
>but he has plans to reforge the iron hands into a legion
>iron fathers not happy
>big conference, turns out some iron fathers are following a robot they've built around one of ferrus's arms
>vulkan turns up, destroys the ferrus-robot, and leaves
>marr draws meduson into a trap with false data
>meduson gathers his forces, probably greatest concentration of iron hands since isstvan
>but at the critical moment the iron fathers, thinking meduson is compromised by the emotions of the flesh, withdraw, leaving meduson abandoned
>meduson gets the same haircut his father did

>eldrad recruits barthusa narek, and later john grammaticus
>ROADTRIIIIIIIIIIIP
>hunt down and kill all the cabal's leaders and agents (including gahet, slau dha, and MERT DAMON) with macguffin bullets eldrad has made to kill perpetuals
>eldard also helps vulkan a bit with visions and the odd teleportation
>drops off narek in the word bearers fleet so he can go try to kill lorgar

>Vulkan can rejoin his legion any time but chooses not to
>Shadrak Meduson gets fucked over by Marr, somehow his allies built a Ferrusbot, Iron Fathers screw him over and now we only have my boy Autek Mor
>Eldrad recruits a crazy space marine and a perpetual to hunt down other perpetuals with macguffins, more Cabal bullshit
sounds pretty terrible honestly, but then again it's Nick Kyme so what can you expect poor iron hands can't catch a break

>meduson gets the same haircut his father did
Lmao. Poor dude. His death is about the only important thing happening in the book then.

I don't understand why authors try to start plot hook like the amulet here, when we already know it's not happening.

So that's the Terminus Decree.

Iron Hands making a robot to worship as their spiritual liege makes perfect sense.

At least Guymer wrote the Ferrus Manus novel and he writes IH like nobody else. Can't wait to read it. Eye of Medusa is one of the best SM novels out there imo.

>a robot
so... not a servitor? in the legion with the closest ties to the mechanicum? was it like a battle automata, weird shit from the vaults of hel or some wicker man deal with corpse parts?

>Vaults of Help
Ooooh now I get why the Helfathers are called this.

To the user last thread who couldn't work out grey just do Mechanicus standard, then Nuln oil, then either Dawnstone or Administratum depending on how light you want it.

Download the Citadel paint app if you don't have a poorfag phone, it's really good for colour schemes and which paints to use if you only use GW paints.

Basically do you want to be a WAAC-fag, a yiff or a bandwagoner.

Thousand sons aren't automatically WAAC, if you leave Magnus at home and don't spam sekhmets they're fine. I know people get very excited about shredding sniper veterans with psychic powers, but if you actually try to write a list like that you run out of points really fast.

I know, I'm just shitposting memes.

All the armies from Inferno have the potential to be very OP but aren't inherently broken. Taking Magnus is fine but I'd house rule his powers to cap at S10 rather than D.

Mostly a wicker man deal with corpse parts. It could raise its arm, a gesture the iron fathers took to be confirmation of their actions when convenient, but that's about it.

Ferrus got no respect, dammit.
I don't even play Iron Hands, but they just get shat on. It ain't right :

Ferrus was weak, Ferrus was a fool.
He had hands of strong metal and he wanted to cut it away.

t. Perturabo

So weak and foolish that Horus wished he hadn't died and had joined the traitors.

>Blackshields unironically represent CSM better than any 40k codex since 3rd edition
You're full of shit. Current Chaos Codex does CSM perfectly fine.

Fluff question. In general do most companies within legions maintain their own units of terminators or are they reserved for specific companies?

>what the fuck is Undivided and what are daemon weapons
>aren't CSM meant to use older wargear? nah give em indomitus armor and no volkite/graviton/whatever
>possessed and helbrutes are garbage
>dark mechanicum make dinobots and shove daemons in existing gear 90% of the time instead of actually creating the new crazy shit they rebelled to be able to create
it's the best CSM codex in a long time but that's like being the second smartest guy on the short bus, to say nothing of what happened to the lost and the damned

>what the fuck is Undivided

Get off the internet, Aaron. It's not healthy for you.

>what the fuck is Undivided
Not a thing anymore

>what are daemon weapons
Rare, like the murder sword

>aren't CSM meant to use older wargear? no volkite/graviton/whatever
>I don't understand that crazy murder retards can't maintain highly volatile technology on planets that literally kill/fuck/rot/change physics

>possessed and helbrutes are garbage
True, but at least Contemptors exist

>dark mechanicum make new crazy shit and shove turn existing gear into new crazy shit instead of actually creating the new crazy shit they rebelled to be able to create
?

Honestly you sound like a retard

>Dunno, the Blood Angels were pretty useful when they went berserk after Sanguinius's death.
Were they though? Sang died pretty much at the end, after Sang bit it Horus did pretty quick, and the whole thing collapsed from there.

>Chaos marks do nothing

>undivided not a thing any more
Somebody hasn't read Ruinstorm. And honestly, you should keep it that way.

From what is generally implied among the more traditionally formatted legions is that the first company is mainly vets in either power armour or terminator armour, the next few are the fighting companies that have their own terminators then the companies after that are the support or line companies. Very similar to the 40k Codex Astartes format of a chapter.

Using the Sons of Horus as an example.

>1st company
Justaerin, Reavers, Veterans, terminators.
Horus rising states that Kalus Ekaddon was the commander of the SoH first company Reavers, whether this meant that all Reavers were in the first company or that Ekaddon was commanding the Reavers of first company idk.

>2nd to maybe 15th company
One vet squad, one terminator squad, tacs and assault squads.
Loken uses his own terminators during he assault on the Whisper Heads so we know that 10th company had it's own terminators.

>15th company onwards
loads of tacs and support squads
The 15th company being the start of the support or line companies is supported by Luc Sedire being considered for the Mournival as well as Loken and he was 13th company captain while during False Gods Verulam Moy (the 19th company captain) is ordered to use his melta and flamer squads and Loken and Torgaddon comment that he is a good line commander but not the best commander.

So if a legion has say 250 companies and is divided into chapters or millennials or similar then the cycle would repeat per chapter/millennial?

Would that be similar in terms of vehicles? I assume all companies have a vehicle pool but the more unusual or specialist vehicles would perhaps come from a more specialised company or a legion pool?

I don't like magnus at all so that wouldn't be a problem, and it wouldn't really be bandwagoning since I've had the fucking things painted in the inferno scheme since they've released. Also no problem going yiffs but their color scheme just bores the fuck out of me and looks like unpainted plastic, plus not being able to use artillery in their RoWs ruins them for me since I love big ass tanks and deredeos.

>Not a thing anymore
so Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers and Red Corsairs aren't a thing? fuck off

>Rare, like the murder sword
They don't even have stats outside of a couple relics anymore.

>>I don't understand that crazy murder retards can't maintain highly volatile technology on planets that literally kill/fuck/rot/change physics
>what is the Dark Mechanicum for and who are the Iron Warriors

>?
wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kelbor-Hal

>Honestly you sound like a retard
no u

>plus not being able to use artillery in their RoWs ruins them for me
RAW artillery is rapiers and quad launchers. You can still use medusas etc.

I haven't read the book in a long time but there were a few other weird things they had going for them that they couldn't take, can't really remember what they were but I remember they were fun to play with so I kind of hated playing with them. Somehow I couldn't bring a lot of my favorite land raider variants and deredeos.

>So if a legion has say 250 companies and is divided into chapters or millennials or similar then the cycle would repeat per chapter/millennial?
The best answer I can give to this is 'depends'. The Death Guard had 7 companies while Alexis Polux is captain of the Imperial Fist's 405th Company. The best thing to do would be to look up the specific legion you have in mind and then extrapolate from there.

>Would that be similar in terms of vehicles? I assume all companies have a vehicle pool but the more unusual or specialist vehicles would perhaps come from a more specialised company or a legion pool?
Again it depends but I think that is a fair assumption. I can see each company having their own dedicated transports like Rhinos, Land Raiders and Spartans and maybe other things like Vindicators and Predators but Sicarans and super heavies etc are probably held by specific armoured companies.

The Pale Hunters Rite restricts artillery and only one Heavy Support slot while the Bloodied Claws Rite only restricts artillery.

Of course you could use another rite and not have these restrictions.

pretty sure wolves are restricted to using grey hunters as compulsory so thats why they can't use other RoW

Reminder that Dark Mechanicum are crazy hobos who want to turn people into dinosaurs and not maintain grav/volkite tech.

Reminder that Word Bearers, Black Legion and the like are "undivided" only in the sense that they welcome worshippers of any god unlike say World Eaters.

Not saying that you're wrong but why would grey hunters as compulsory troops stop them from using orbital assault, armoured spearhead, angel's wrath, brethren of iron, outcast sons, ZM assault force or sacrificial offering?

None of these place any restrictions on what must be troops. The others have some restrictions about what must be compulsory troops but these only say things like 'Any unit eligible to take a Rhino as a Dedicated Transport may instead take a Storm Eagle Gunship as a Dedicated Transport', which Grey Slayers can.

>pretty sure wolves are restricted to using grey hunters as compulsory so thats why they can't use other RoW

They probably can, the Grey Hunter restriction is part of their Legiones Astartes rule, and most RoW do not specify what needs to fill the compulsory slots. Those that do, might need a bit of a FAQ to be usable for the Wolves.

>Dark Mechanicum are crazy hobos who want to turn people into dinosaurs and not maintain grav/volkite tech.
They don't even turn people into dinosaurs 90% of the time, just vehicle possession and daemon engines which have imperial weapon stats with the serial numbers filed off.

Daemons of undivided exist, they're born that way. Chaos Undivided as a movement never really was a thing outisde of the word bearers who simply worship all 4 gods
just like the daemon priest in ruinstorm, surprise faggot

As of 6e, Chaos Undivided only means you haven't individually drawn the eyes of a patron yet. Factions can still be Undivided, but that only means they're made up of individuals who have been marked (not necessarily worship) by multiple gods. But for the individual Chaos Undivided is now Chaos Undecided.

Y'all need to find a copy of Liber Chaotica; it quite clearly explains that Undivided is not simply Chaos Unaligned, but a force in it's own right. All you folks saying that it's always been this way need to stop drinking the retcon Kool Aid.

>All you folks saying that it's always been this way
We're not. We're saying it is this way now because GW in 2012 didn't want to confuse little children with things like Mark of Chaos Undivided.

It's funny. ADB mostly champions the principle that canon is variable, you can pick your lore, and almost every narrator is somewhat unreliable (he worded that far better than me, being a professional wordsmith and all, but I can't be bothered to look it up exactly). And yet he uses the phrase "chaos undecided" once or twice in an AMA and some people treat it as absolute set-in-stone truth that overwrites everything else ever written about chaos. I don't get it.

I have his related conversation on what is canon, from his talks with people in IP, who refuse to speak to the community directly.

ADB: "I want to do X."

IP: "You can't, that's wrong, the lore doesn't go like that."

ADB: "But it says in these published sources that I'm right. I just want to carry on X and Y and Z."

IP: "Yeah, but they were wrong. They were wrong at the time, too. We never directly say they were wrong, we just never mention them again, and eventually counter them in later publications."

ADB: "But the readers think these things are true."

IP: "Sure. But eventually, they won't."

>caring about what gw considers canon anymore
>not rolling with what's the most thematically interesting option
keep to codexes, imperial armour and the big black books for 30k, then pick what's good from the rest, you'll be happier that way

>keep to codexes
That's the whole problem.

Brilliant, thanks user. I'm wanting to expand my Night Lords to include some terminators and different vehicles and am wondering whether to paint them up as the same company as what I already have or to have them as an attachment from other companies.
Based on what your saying I'm thinking have the terminators from a dedicated company and the vehicles as part of another armoured company.

Could definitely go either way. If you want the terminators to be part of the company "culture", maybe sharing some unique quirk your guys have, then I would make them from the same company. But if you want them to stand apart, and perhaps be viewed as outsiders, then make them different.

Quick anons, what are you expecting out of Atramentar terminators?

not expecting them desu

What else would NL get in book 8?

Are NLs confirmed for book 8? I thought it was BLs, DAs, daemons and dark mech.

There will likely be information about Thramas, meaning NL.

Can't upload the pic for some reason, but just search Angelus Night Lords. There is a pic from the event saying they will have new rules.

As a Night Lords player: disappointment. I'd be more looking forward to an extra character or two or a new ROW.

Ah okay, then I'm thinking something not too amazing for Atramentar, something closer to Lernaeans than Justarerin. I don't see 2 wounds happening.

>WS5
>Fear
>built in DS for cheap/free
>all can take chain-glaives

Something like that.

I hope they're a characterful unit, they're elite veteran murder psychos in a legion full of murder psychos. Lots of options for CC, deployment, etc.

>built in DS for cheap/free
They already have that. Kind of why I'd be surprised to see atremetar as their own unit, they're terminators that teleport and those are already available to NL players.

I know that DS is a cheap upgrade fro NL terminators but I meant that it would be part of their basic rules. But I agree with your statement, adding DS termies to NLs is a bit redundant. But then again Al special termies are WS5 and stubborn and that's pretty much it over regular ones. Not every unique units needs an amazing gimmick.

1 wound terminators, WS5 with fear and chainglaives as standard. Potentially an charge bonus rule like +1 initiative but that's just wishful thinking.

>1 wound

Fuck you sekhmets.

>laughing in 5point combiweapons

Lerneans can also take a Conversion Beamer, although I agree it hardly makes them particularly special