Where do Space Marine ranks fall in the hierarchy of the rest of the Imperium?

Where do Space Marine ranks fall in the hierarchy of the rest of the Imperium?

Does an Imperial Guard Master Sargent outrank a Space Marine Sargent? Does a Space Marine Captain outrank an Imperial Guard Lieutenant?

SM are entirely outside the normal Munitorum command structure, but in terms of command, the force commander is at least the equal of the lord general of the entire campaign.
In truth, only the High Lords/Emperor (and technically Inquisition) can issue a direct command to Astartes.

Outside the chain of command, who outranks who usually depends on the chapter and regiments.

Space Marine > Guardsmen

The lowliest Marine still outranks the highest ranking Human. It gets a little blurry with the Inquisition though.

Does an Imperial Guardsman have to follow Space Marine orders?

If a Space Marine Sargent (NCO) orders a Imperial Guards Colonel (Commissioned Officer) to give him a ride to the front, can the Colonel tell him to get fucked?

Possibly from a technical standpoint but culturally, no. You want to keep Astartes happy so they will continue to help you in the future rather than deciding to engage in a different theatre when you next need help, and they are also the literal angels of death of your Emperor and For that your granny told you about when she was still wiping your nose back in the hive.

I mean. He'd have to have pretty big balls, and be respected enough that the Space Marines wouldn't dare kill him for his back talk.

Your Emperor and God*
I'll go kys myself for phoneposting like a faggot now

>Does an Imperial Guardsman have to follow Space Marine orders?
Officially, no, but no guardsman would dare to affront the Emperor's Own Angels.
>If a Space Marine Sargent (NCO) orders a Imperial Guards Colonel (Commissioned Officer) to give him a ride to the front, can the Colonel tell him to get fucked?
Yes. It would end as poorly as could be imagined. Astartes are literally holy writ made flesh. The Astartes would have every right to kill him for impeding the Emperor's victory, if the commissar/regiment priest did not kill him first.

>The lowliest Marine still outranks the highest ranking Human
Not quite. They're two totally separate command structures. A guardsman technically doesn't have to do a fucking thing an astartes chapter master tells him to but usually the marines coordinate with the guard and the guard commander issues orders like "do whatever the fuck one of the emprahs own angels of death says you dumb shit." But things do get weird with the inquisition.

Why are those Marines so short?

Or is that chick freakishly tall?

In joint operations command typically goes to whoever has seniority. Since Marines are super humans who live for hundreds of years that will usually mean they're in charge.

Marines are generally 7'.
Mira is likely around 6', and you must include for perspective. In scenes when they are level, they clearly tower over her.

Technically speaking, the Inquisition can requisition any Imperial forces he wishes to deal with any threat he deems fit. But he will need to justify his action of doing so in a post-action tribunal, especially when requisitioning a unit destined for a Crusade or elsewhere. Things get blurry, weird, and/or freaky with the Inquisition.

>telling a 7 foot guy in nuclear powered armor to get fucked
>a guy carrying an assault artillery piece in one hand
>and a 4 foot sword-shaped chainsaw in the other
Yeah nah

God that ending, i never wanted to shoot a space marine so much as Leandros, that hierarchy jumping piece of shit. I don't even like the smurfs all that much and it pissed me off.

The Imperium is a hierarchical mess, your average Inquisitor in theory can execute the entire High Lords of Terra, but in practice he can only do this if he has a huge level of influence.

Space Marine Chapters exist outside of the structure of everybody, though the Inquisition would dispute this. They're deployed for wars through the Adeptus Terra petitioning/asking them. If the Marines agree to subordinate themselves to a Guard Warmaster or the like, they will be subordinate.

And this is similar for many agencies. Technically, only the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy have a clear hierarchical command structure via their mutual connection to the Administratum. They need to ask the Sisters of Battle, Mechanicum, Sisters of Silence, etc nicely for all else.

This system is of course inefficient as fuck, but was designed deliberately so by Guilliman to prevent a new Horus from gathering another huge army.

Chain of command.

Guard and Navy don't have a clear hierarchical structure between them, at least not in any book I've read. A ships captain decides what his ship does (unless ordered to do otherwise by an admiral or other higher ranking navy officer) even if there's an IG general on board. The only exceptions would be ranks like Lord Solar or the like which aren't even IG ranks per se, but more like feudal/political positions.

...

Isn't the Adeptus Terra capable of creating Space Marine chapters? I think the younger the chapter is, it has a lesser rank. Also Space Marine are bound by expectation, Space Marine are angels, not holy men.

Firstly he should have contacted a chapter master and resolve the issues in house, not call the fucking inquisition.
Secondly he was witness to that chaos fag teling in how he was resistant to the warp and still called him a heretic.

Do angels outrank mortal beings in Christian mythology? Because most of the Imperium sees them as such.

Space Marine Sergeants aren't NCOs, because they don't have regular officers either. A tactical marine can get all the way to Chapter Master, no officer program needed.

>daemons
>telling the truth

Doesn't the same sort of autonomy that Spesh Muhreens have apply even moreso to admech, given that Admech is technically not even part of the fucking Imperium? They are an allied empire that is tightly woven to Imperial structures, but are only really accountable to their own esoteric order and inquisitors who are brave enough to fuck with them.

Actually, Leandros has been conclusively proven to be wrong in the newer fluff, what with the non-Chaos warp entities on Fenris.

>You can't touch the warp and remain unscathed.
>Literally did it and and returned unscathed
For further confirmation they should have contacted a librarian

There used to be. Marines, squad leaders, sergeants, lieutenants, captains and chapter masters. Later the ranks were sort of removed from the game and lore, or at least weren't as prevalent. Even in 30k lieutenants and captains are a rank in the fluff, but there's really no rules for them, other than using vanilla praetors and centurions.

Only an inquisitor (within reason), perhaps the high lords of terra and the chapter master of a given chapter has the authority to command them. Their ranks share some names but absolutely nothing else. Their task puts them beyond the normal command structure of man.

>muh inquisitor!
While their authority has no limit it is a poor man who earns the ire of the space marines. Like the Church and the tech-priesthood their obedience is best left assumed, investigated only when needed and not pushed

Inquisitors who use their authority unwisely against Marines and other imperial organizations tend to end up dead.

Space Marines are outside of the Astra Militarum's system. They operate by their own hierarchy.

But that doesn't mean that they don't work together. Often, Marines will take command of Imperial Guard forces when they arrive, usually because they have a few hundred years or more experience than IG Officers and also because they're big, imposing, and living angels in a mortal's eyes. Conversely, Space Marines might take a backseat to command if they're invited on a Crusade by a regular human commander, though you can bet their commander, if not a few of his buddies too, are getting a seat at the big boy's table.

No I know Captains and other ranks exist within the Space Marine command structure, but they're a direct line of progression from tactical marines. The difference between an officer and a regular tactical is just experience/whether or not they've been promoted.

Can anyone prevent a Space Marine from walking up to an Imperial Guard squad, or even a regiment, telling them
>All of you belong to me now
And taking them?

Yeah, I don't think Space Marines have the same junior enlisted->NCO->staff-NCO vs officer structure that the IG and our militaries have. It seems more like a single track that diverges at some point as opposed to two separate tracks to begin with.

No, they receive an all expenses paid vacation to the paradise planet of Catachan

Just because someone doesn't exhibit external corruption doesn't mean they're free of taint.

yes if the chapter isn't a Blood Angel

In theory, the Commisar or their superiors could tell the marines no. In practice, that's going to take some mighty brass balls.

>actually using xenos tech.
So the actual traitor reveals himself.

Correct. Technically an inquisitor does have the power to do more or less anything. But the problem is all that power means nothing when a man 5 times your weight and half again your size is pointing a gun the size of your torso at you. You want proof, a light touch and some measure of respect. At least for the SM's. Fuck trying to talk to a priest or reason with a cog

Technically, no, because Space Marines are so far removed from the normal rank and file. Not to mention for most of the Imperium, marines are seen as nigh-mythical, legendary figures. It would be like if the SAS came into your small outpost, or more accurately, if the Knight's Templar demanded entry into your barracks.

What if a lot of Imperial tech is actually alien tech DAoT humans discovered and made their own?

I mean, 4e Eldar codex says that Eldar laser tech is identical to Imperial, just more advanced. Or is Imperial laser tech identical to Eldar, just less advanced...?

Everyone invented las technology and while the process might be a little different for each the underlining principals are identical across all races. Eldar don't be opening warp gates to the beam dimension

>Space Marine Sargents, Captains

Not canon anymore

Each chapter has its own ranking system and as far as I know, none of them have an actual split between “Enlisted” and “Officers”

Culturally Space Marines are considered lords and are in the top tier of society. Militarily Space Marines operate outside of the standard Imperial military. However due to cultural reasons and that most Space Marines aren't dicks to common humans, your average guardsmen would do anything for a Space Marine.

A Astares can command Guardsmen but he can't have them. Technicalities.

excellent repeating integers, battle-brother

There's no real world equivalent to Space Marines. While tier one operators get mad respect most everywhere they go, they can't just roll up and demand whatever the fuck they want from anyone.

>Fuck trying to talk to a priest or reason with a cog

Even then. A priest with pull could get an inquisitor excommunicated (Which is basically a death sentence) or a cog could make sure he never gets any of the gear he wants due to 'Unfortunate but unavoidable delays'. Which is really the core of the Imperium, every single group needs to work with a soft touch with each other one unless they've managed to end up with a situation where they will definitively win the dickwaving contest.

>Talk to the boss my lord

>ywn be rescued from your pointless shithole war by the Adeptus Astares and dumped on a new, probably better planet to run interference while the angels of death do their thing

Ave Imperetor

Although space marines sergeants aren't really NCO, being more akin to military orders' sergents, as they are soldier-monks, I believe they get additional hypno-conditioning to go with the promotion.

Everything in the Imperium is independant (yet needs the rest of the adeptus to work). It's a byzantine system of checks and balances. Nonetheless, as the Fabricator general is one of the High Lords, the AdMech is separated from the Imperium only in name.

It's almost like they share the same universe and laws of physics. There aren't a ton of different ways to hurt people with coherent light.

Oh yeah, last thing you need is for some slighted magos telling your pet redrobe to deal with the problem, and having him kill life support while you sleep. Or yeah just ensure nothing you own works.

I'm iffy about the priest getting you excommunicated. But they'd have little trouble turning the ordo hereticus on you. witch hunters are not the brightest types and they will make live hell for you

I imagine they're going to be reluctant if the Marines request transportation and the only vehicle available is the command chimera. Could probably get away with it if the vehicle was vital to local guard efforts.

You forgot about Warmasters and Segmentum Lords, as they have authority over all the imperial forces in their crusades, per High Lords decree.

according to Eisenhorn, witch hunters aren't Inquisitors. They are very similar in action, but are part of the Ecclesiarchy instead of the Ordos.

Space marine chapters are entirely separate from the Adeptus Terra command structure and are forbidden from amassing private armies, astartes or otherwise. That's 90% of why the Astral Claws got in trouble, on top of telling the Departmento Munitorum to get fucked.

Note the sole exception to this is chapter serfs, who are an entirely defensive/maintenance force.

>Astral Claws got in trouble, on top of telling the Departmento Munitorum to get fucked.
story? im curious.

>I'm iffy about the priest getting you excommunicated.

Well, remember: The Ecclessiarchy is one of the monolithic pillars of the imperium. It's just as much a power as Mars or the Imperial Guard. They also get to declare stuff heretical just as much as the inquisition does.

Mind you, that comes into the aforementioned 'Imperial dickwaving contest'. Every single imperial faction has ultimate authority on shit, it's just who can leverage it the best in the current situation. The ultimate arbiters of everything technological vs the ultimate investigative branch vs the ultimate arbiters of everything faith based (In a full on theocracy) vs the ultimate arbiters of military action vs the ultimate arbiters of the paperwork to get any of the aformentioned shit done.

It's a heap of kids playing 'Nah-ah, I win' if they actually get butting heads. So generally they try to keep fighting to a minimum unless they are sure they can really pull rank in this situation (Like say, the Ecclessiarchy in a situation where a Living Saint was found).

But there's various different types of lasers in the world right now, which work on different principles. What are the odds that two races separated by millions of years and thousands of light years end up making laser weapons identical to one another? Especially when the other one uses materials made out of magic.

Then couldn't a Space Marine go up to a squad of Imperial Guard, make them sign some forms that have them agree to be Serfs, and circumvent that?

>make them sign some forms that have them agree to be Serfs
Knowing the Imperium, they wouldn't have the authority to sign any contracts not authorized by their command.

Never heard of the Badap War? Read it up.

>Nonetheless, as the Fabricator general is one of the High Lords, the AdMech is separated from the Imperium only in name.
Admech does not fall under the jurisdiction of the administratum thus making them nominally far more independent than even the Spesh Muhreen chapters (whose creation is sanctioned by the High Lords and handled by the administratum.) Admech handles their internal bureaucracy on their own.

In the same way that the Ecclessiarchy declares a heap of guys with power swords and storm shields 'Bodyguards' and shoves other people in death robots with flamers and buzzsaws to run charging at people as 'penance' and avoids their own limitations, yeah. It works in the sense that 'It works as long as no one calls bullshit on you'. You get into trouble if you push far enough that people call you on it, so the aim of the game is to keep your bullshit JUST lower than the amount required for other people to call your bluff.

>I'm now imagining the Blood Angels slapping a seal or something on every guardsman they see and calling them their serfs
>"the gun is jus for show"

Now you are getting the Imperial Mindset right.

You should find the Imperial Armor on the Badab War and read it, user. It's one of the best 40k books FW has done.

i will, thanks.

Rogue traders can literally buy space marines.

You are born into serfdom or recruited by the chapter as a whole, not a single marine.

What? I need some proof.

You mean loan right?

Neither does the Ecclesiarchy, yet nobody considers them not to be part of the Imperium.
Even agencies that are supposedly infeoded to other organizations are completely independant, like the Navis Nobilite, that should answer to the Imperial Navy in theory.

Inquisition can request, but they can't actually command them. That said, it's generally in their best interests to go along with it, otherwise those damn ork snipers may start showing up.

>Navis Nobilite

Why would they answer to the Navy? Any interstellar ship needs a navigator, military or civilian. They're as independently necessary for the Imperium's continued existence as the Mechanicus.

The difference between Eccelsiarchy and the Admech is that Admech existed before the Imperium did. Admech existed as an entity before the great fucking Crusade. Emperor allied his fledling Imperium with the Priests of Mars.

That's why I said "technically".
In terms of structure, the Inquisition is second only to the Emperor.
It's just stupid to do so.

I can see an individual Raven Guard throwing in his lot with a RT for an espionage mission or a Dark Angel to lowkey look for Fallen......but outright "buying" an Astartes?

>Inquisitor giving you shit
>go to his rival
>"Most honored Inquisitor, this guy is a fucking double heretic, look how they have interfered with out crusade against the xeno/mutant/heretic"
>"Interfering with a crusade against the God-Emperor's enemies? Sounds like heresy to me!"

I dunno, seems simple enough considering how schismatic and factionalized the Inquisition is

Space Marines are Knights. This is important. They are suppose to be to the average Imperial Guardsmen what a Knight was to a levy peasant. Bigger, armored in something they would never dream of using, carrying weapons they would never dream of wielding, and performing in battle in roles the peasant couldn't hope to fulfill.

That said, Imperial Guard has a 'modern' command structure that doesn't fit very well with the knightly theme. It's the clash of modern and fantasy in a space fantasy. So, I guess the best way to look at it is the following:
Space Marines are entirely outside the command Structure of the Guard and the Guard of the command Structure of Astartes. No officer from one may issue 'official' orders to the other. Official being a key word. If the general responsible for a whole front request the Marine's help in a battle performing a function, Marines have freedom to not do it, but will likely due it out of respect and understanding that it's their duty to the Empire (and not to that officer). If a Space Marine request of the same general that his artillery provides a barrage to soften a position before the Marines assault it, this general will also no be obliged to do it, but likely will due to respect to the Space Marines.

Now, while they aren't their military superiors, Space Marines are social superiors to high ranking Imperial Guard officers, and thus, will command more deference.

How does a chapter arm itself then? Do they simply tithe their recruiting worlds, or do they recieve material aid from the administratum?

Their weapons are constructed usually by forge worlds, not all ruled by them. But admech are responsible for arming Space Marines, among other things. So usually material resources in the raw and people come from their controlled worlds, or in some cases, conquered worlds are sacked, and then their equipament is provided by the Admech, but the bulk of it is passed down from generation to generation. Some tech marines can perform repairs but I dont think they can actually run production.

I dunno why, but they're officially a subsidiary of the Imperial Fleet. Consolidation, maybe.

Could we please keep the thread free of e-peen contest between imaginary factions?Go to the 40k general if you want to get pissed.

Depends on the chapter. Most have mutual oaths with various otherorganizations and worlds. Some are supported by the AdMech, some by the local sector, and I guess most recieve pocket money from the Estate Imperialis.
The ones that get zero support, like the Marines Malevolent, don't seem to like it much.

>held in custody, tortured and mind-probed to ensure that you aren't an enemy plot trying to get him to show his hand or follow a false lead and/or don't possess interesting intel in some corner of your mind
>get called to testify in the inquisitorial court afterwards
>made two very powerful enemies, if the judges aren't pissed off at you for wasting everyone's time
GREAT IDEA!

No, seriously, they're inquisitors. Even if you manage to approach one, they must recieve more letters from looneys than a pop star.

The fuck are you on about? Nobody is getting pissed here.

He certainly is

I'd be a Salamanders chapter serf any day of the week

>a venerable battle brother on an official diplomatic mission is the same thing as some random nutter rambling on about warp-taint in the water turning the grox Slanneshi

something tells me the point went over your head.

If the Inquisitor has a good reason to take Astartes away from a crusade, it doesn't matter. Interfering with an Inquisitors work is far worse than diverting manpower.

Officially, Space Marines and the rest of the imperium can't issue orders to each other. At All.

Functionally, you do what the Astartes tells you if you know what's good for you. And Praise the Emperor for the opportunity.

That being said, once you get to the senior officer rank (general, admiral, planetary governor etc.) you can negociate with most astartes as equals. Granted, you still do what they want most of the time but if you refuse you're probably not going to be killed.

You say that as if most SM weren't roided maniacs that fall to heresy on a pretty regular basis.
And that's not even getting into the special chapters that hear voices or stuff.
"He's a goddamn heretic and by the way please ignore the death company/werewolves/guys in black armor" is good only if you're from the first founding.

Sorry, poor comprehension of the word fledging on my part due to false friends.

That’s exactly what my dudes are all about

Why hasn’t he Inquisition gotten on them for building an Army outside of their allotted 1,000 Marines?

They are allowed as many chapter serfs as they want. Just only 1k actual Marines with implants.

>I'd be a Salamanders chapter serf any day of the week
This would honestly be one of the afest and best things to be in 40K.

Nice guys probably serve their serfs bbq every sunday or so.

Some Chapters don't really give a shit about the Codex Astartes and have well over 1,000 Marines.

Others might as well have more with their tightly nit successor Chapters.