So as a long time player of both, I've been scouring around all different types to find interesting combat systems. I'm frankly pretty sick of "roll and add modifier, you hit or miss" basic bitch mechanic.
I know there are certain RPG systems like the Palladium systems that get insanely complex with combat and endless tables and what not, but I'm wondering if you fa/tg/uys have any favorite systems or recommendations for more advanced combat systems that are streamlined and don't take 5 hours to resolve one fight between two swordsmen? I would love a system with more detailed attacks or abilities and realistic wounds that don't involve rolling dice on 17 different charts, just a nice streamlined system that plays much more realistically than the old D&D roll-to-hit, hit point loss system.
Bonus points for mutilation, cutting off limbs, shock, bleeding, losing your weapon, etc.. >Also please keep thread alive by talking about whatever combat system you like the best, even if it doesn't meet my above request.
One more little bump to start: I've heard that Savage Worlds and The Riddle of Steel RPG's have some excellent and unique combat systems. So far I'm still reading through the books to check them out.
Alexander Cox
>Bonus points for mutilation, cutting off limbs, shock, bleeding, losing your weapon, etc.. This is Harnmaster to a T. The price however is that you need a 2 page cheatsheet to play. You cannot have that without some complexity. If that is too complex for you, your next best bet is Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1E or 2E.
Liam Hughes
Zweihander, pretty complex and explosive combat, the artless book is free.
Oliver Watson
Why not play a simpler, more narrative system? I can't really comment because the only one I can think of is my homebrew, but really just find a system with very simple roll to hit+modifiers fight mechanic with degrees of success. It's a bit of pressure on the GM to come up with descriptions of wounds on the spot, but it works quite nicely I've been finding.
Thomas Wright
These are both awesome thank you. I'm checking out Zweihander right now.
As to the Hammaster game, I understand that the more detailed combat you want, the complexity is inevitably going to increase. I just think that there has to be ways to streamline the experience by possibly dropping other mechanics or modifying the way combat is done. I'm excited to check out that system as well.
Does it have things like different types of attack i.e. overhand, stab, etc.. or attack prediction? I've been looking for games with good melee duel-type mechanics like that as well.
Well I want a meatier system because I'm tired of one or two dice rolls deciding everything. I don't want flat combat, but more tactical options that the player themselves can choose which opens up combat and makes it feel like you're actually making critical decisions and not just chucking dice and hoping to get lucky. I'm so sick of dice-chuckers and shallow combat. Maybe I'm getting into a euro fag phase lol.
Samuel Moore
Burning Wheel uses a similar process for both physical fighting and its Duel of Wits. Its a bit complex to explain in a single comment but essentially each side of the fight decide on a volley of three cards that describe their tactics and lay them out in order of one to three. Attack, Defend and Feint are the three primary rock/paper/scissors in a fight while Point, Rebuttal and Obfuscate for the social duel of wits. There are other types of actions a side can take but those are the general ones. Each side reveals their first card and resolve how those actions would play out against each other. An Feint would fail if the opponent Defends but would do extra against one who is attacking. The success or failure of each exchange will damage the morale of each side, with them winning or losing as a group. I'm probably describing it badly but its still an interesting system.
Jordan Price
It doesn't have overhand but you can choose to cut or thrust as weapons (and armors) have different damage aspects. Harnmaster, The Riddle of Steel and Song of Swords are a bit related in that they all tackle medieval combat with some degree of realism in mind.
Ayden Mitchell
Oh, if you want tactical options, there is Runequest 6E/Mythras.
Christian Miller
Yeah I've checked out Burning Wheel before and it's a very unique system. Trying to skim through it melted my face off a bit though, and what I read was mostly about PvP combat. In PvP it seems like rock-paper-scissors moves and hidden mechanics work well, but I'm also looking for PvE systems that would work in tabletop or RPG games without being too clunky.
That is awesome... does it take two hours to figure out where you were hit and what happens to you lol?
Anthony Reyes
Girls adds the simple act of rolling defense So a sword swing isn't static, it's dynamic in reaction.
Adding in hit locations, wounding based on damage vs specific body parts, and an intelligent physics based damage system, and you've got your ideal game. It even incorporates simplicity of design versus complexity of scope. You can choose to disregard aspects of it to pare it down if you want to, without losing playability. Same in the other direction. You can add wounding, specialized hit locations, etc. on top of the basic stuff.
Jason Bailey
Nah, not really. It's probably twice as slow as, say, modern D&D though. But since it's way more lethal, combats don't last longer. You just don't enter fights if you're sure you can win easily, if it can be helped. Oh and wound infection is almost more dangerous than the fights themselves.
Nathaniel Stewart
Yes, BW is largely PvP or PvNPC because its less a "Adventurers scouring the dungeon of monsters" type game and is more "The PC's are each other's monsters" type thing. The PC's don't have to be grouped together as a team and the system itself is more about exploring the characters rather than gaining XP and leveling up. PC's may even roll characters on entirely different sides of a war and spend the game skirmishing with one another
Jacob Young
That sounds very cool. Now just to convince my buddies to learn and play it lol.
That's exactly the kind of trade-off that would make such a system worth it for players like me that want more realistic combat and outcomes.
I've just been getting into GURPS and loving it so far. Sounds like I need to dive into the combat system and see what it's about.
Matthew Roberts
Reading through Zweihander right now and it seems to have taken some cues from Warhammer Fantasy from what I know of the system. Some of the mechanics are very cool like the corruption and damage threshold representing your risk of taking wounds and/or armor depletion, but it does seem a bit heavy.
Have you played it? Is combat smooth and intuitive or clunky?
Jordan Lopez
>Savage Worlds Complete train wreck of a system. Nothing in the combat is "unique". The dice mechanic has no granularity at all, rolling d6s and d8s for attacks while adding huge stacking bonuses to hit. Nearly everything dies from 10 to 15 damage so wild attacking is almost always the best strategy in melee, giving you a +2 to hit and damage against enemies, at the cost of only - 2 defense. You'll be more likely to hit with a raise for +d6 damage and also get flat +2, unless you are surrounded by enemies this is the best way to go. Oh wait Sweep....you can do that and hit everyone adjacent. Yeah, such interesting combat. Riddle of Steel looks pretty good but after 4 years of running Savage Worlds I can say with conviction that it is just not that good. Has a lot of good ideas, but the charm wears off quickly and you'll regret spending time on it. Half the skills are useless, half the edges are useless, and combat is a slog save for if you're fighting hordes of mooks.
Nolan Powell
It's a blatant WFRP spin-off.
Luke Wilson
Thanks for your detailed feedback, I feel like you saved me a lot of time. So combat is more or less a mad rush of attacking or hitting multiple enemies at once? Sounds pretty lame lol.
You think it could be better by balancing the combat and creating more risks for the players/tactical choices? Or just game balance as a whole? Sounds like the skill system needs some serious tweaking as well.
Carter Cooper
Well, all the +2 modifiers save for aiming need to be reduced to +1. They are basically the equivalent of +6 and -6 in a d20 system, maybe even more. But even so the game is very nongranular and there's little room for anything interesting. The game is "good" mostly because it's a non- narrative (except for the Benny reroll point bullshit) rules lite generic system. There aren't many others of those, except open d6 (which has its own issues) and genesys which just came out and requires special dice. A lot of its mechanics are complete shit, but due to filling a niche that is starved for decent competitors (like the absolute dogshit that is Unisystem), it's fans don't care. I didn't, for a while. Complaining about savage worlds is like complaining about finding a diner after being stranded in the desert. "It might not be good food, but I'm fucking starving, so let's eat."
If you're interested, download the test drive and just make up your own combat maneuver rules. Hell, battlemaster fighter for 5e has some interesting combat options too. Or Riddle of Steel, which I cant personally vouch for but I've heard it's good.
Jeremiah Bennett
Song of Swords
Christopher Ramirez
Genesys is narrative. That's what the special dice are for.
Benjamin Smith
Good point.
Grayson Watson
I'm sorry but what do you mean by granular? It sounds like there needs to be some new systems coming out. That's actually what I'm fiddling with right now is a new type of streamlined 'realistic' combat system, but I think there being so goddamned many RPG systems out there makes it intimidating.
Jordan Roberts
Granular as in the numbers are larger. Savage Worlds skill checks use smaller numbers (v.s. 4 instead of v.s. 15 or 20 like a d&d skill check) so a +1 bonus is a bigger deal. Also due to this, the range of character skill level is smaller, so while a fighter in d&d might have an 18 or 15 or 17 strength, a savage worlds fighter probably has a d8 or d10, and there's no room to differentiate the two in between.
Brody Thompson
Is that something like Vampire's """Storytelling""" System or is it really narrative?
Gavin Garcia
Oh thanks. I think I'd like a smaller numbers system as D&D's numbers can get obnoxious with higher level characters lol.
Angel Williams
That has nothing to do with d&d's power level, but whatever.
Anthony Gonzalez
>a long time player of both, I've been... player of both of what?
Anthony Fisher
I don't care about the power level, more with bigger numbers as a DM. It gets tedious trying to narrate why someone who gets stabbed 30 times because they have a giant HP pool is still alive.
Wyatt Morgan
If you;re interested in Burning Wheel there are some good youtube series of people playing I could suggest
Gavin Foster
If you have autism you might like Genesys, it spends almost 20 pages just explaining its bizarre and convoluted dice system.
If I recall correctly series 1 is a quest game and 2 is a struggle game. 3 is an intrigue game and the most recent. Series 3 is also the one where they go most in-depth about the rules since they're teaching it to one or two of the players as they go.
Aiden James
Hackmaster or mythras
Luke Robinson
The game text is surely a pain to look at for anyone not familiar with the game. You open the book and see a wall of symbols staring right back at you.
