Why is there no "Gods of Law" In Warhammer anymore?

In the new books they keep talking about the power chaos gets from symbols. Maybe that's what happened to Law, no symbol to draw power from.

Is there a Warhammer NWN1 server up?

>>If the Gods of Law ARE canon in Fantasy, then they would also exist in 40k as well.
How does that work?

I don't think it does.

Why would the gods in Fantasy have anything to do with the gods in 40K?

> Only 3 Gods of Chaos. One is Malal....

Yeah, that's a canon source..... sure......

GW has changed policy to only include concepts in their games they can trademark for themselves .

WFRP has gods, and has enough contradictory information to suggest that they may or may not exist.

Take for example divine magic in Warhammer Fantasy.
According to the elves, there is no difference between magic from the gods and magic from the winds of chaos, yet magic from the gods seems to not only come with less dangerous side-effects, but also produces effects that the wind colleges would have a hard time with. Such as Shallyan healing. Adding another spanner to the works, according to the elves and the colleges (who were taught by the elves) humans cannot even comprehend using more than one wind of magic without corruption and all sorts of bad shit, then you see followers of Tor throwing lightning bolts and casting spells that enhance the body or fighting spirit. Priests of Ulfric doing something similar but with ice instead of lightning, Verena's cult can do all sorts of shit. All of this stuff that suggests that blending of the winds isn't strictly based on studying for 100 years in an elven tower, but rather on one's perception of magic and the world at large.

Alternatively it suggests that the gods venerated by those priests are in fact real entities, and the elves haughtiness doesn't allow them to perceive (and as a result prevents them from tapping into) the power sources of these non-chaos gods that provide magics that aren't as strictly regimented as the winds that the wizards believe in.

Now which of them are gods of law, and which are neutral gods is a whole other question, but it seems that part of the point of the setting and the divine within it are that we don't know for sure.

What is with this trademark fetish anyway? What tangible benefit does shit shit like renaming Elves to Aelves have to their profits?

Makes it (in theory) easier to go after folk who make stuff for their game.

Like Malice?

except the elves worship their gods almost as intensely as the humans. If you think a phoenix guard does not have faith in Asuryan the same way a bald autist has faith in sigmar you are fucking retarded.

Does that make Chaos magic safe?

Probably just drifting from the source material. The gods of law never played a big role in tabletop, and so were phased out of the setting.

>literally just so they can sue people
Not even Hollywood goes after pirates as hard as GW goes after chinamen fakes. I honestly don't know why they do this outside of personal vindication.

The tactical arrow for space marines is the arrow of law.

I suspect it doesn't get mentioned explicitly as much to distance from dungeons and dragons alignment.

no
All magic is chaos as the marauders keep howling in my TWWH games.

>Gods of Law In Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, 1st Edition

I think the real question was why were they INCLUDED? Like, who thought they should just add 3 gods of law for no reason? In 1986 when this was printed they're already had "Warhammer Fantasy Battle" for 3 years. They had introduced Chaos 2 years before. Why NOW would they just thrown in "Law" in the RPG book, when it hadn't been in the other books?

Someone fucked up.

China could become a direct competitor otherwise.

Because the whole point of WFRP 1e was to open up new avenues within the world that weren't tied to the very strict nature of the warring rules.

Moorcock's chaos vs law dynamics are wildly different than Warhammer's. In Warhammer, the gods of chaos corrupt and enslave mortals. In Moorcock's works, mortals corrupt and enslave the gods of chaos.

Well, Law seems pretty strict.

I guess they tried something new, it did work, and they NEVER DID IT AGAIN!

Why did they write
>But Games Workshop had the courage to at least credit him in a backhanded way: "and thanks to Michael Moorcock, whose fault all this is."

Cuz he's the origin of a lot of ideas, but equally much, its their own. Mutating gifts for the champions, and demonblades being a thing of Chaos only, are GW's own ideas.

It used to be(and was far better for it) that all Gods either did not exist(Solkan) or were aspects of the big four(which was the original not shit reason archaon went mad).

They'll probably get re-introduced once GW runs out of Sue shit to sell.

New Gods and alien races for Sigmar and even 40k soon lads.

Not grim and/or dark enough.

Hell no, the forces of Chaos in Moorcock's are all mutating.

Prince Gaynor the Damned is famous for both and that's before we get into stormbrniger.

Ah, the real answer. Balance is gray, not grimdark.

I always thought it was because "guns, faith and steel" vs. the great dark seems a more interesting theme.

>faith
Where does the power of Faith come from if not from the Warp?

That's the 1st Ed WHFRP book.

When it was printed in 1986 that was Canon, which was a year before Rogue Trader.

its the same Warp.
Some deamon special characters have existed in both settings and in older editions of fantasy chaos champions could be blessed with powerful artefects that were actually just plasmaguns and chainswords.

Be'lakor shed a light on this by saying that Solkan, one of the Gods of Law, is lie and doesn't really exist.

>trusting anything a deamon says.

>Be'lakor sequentially sends the Solkante inquisitor to the Realm of Chaos to check for himself

Mainly due to licensing. I recall an interview with one of the original writers of the Warhammer deities and he said he wanted to do some fun stuff with the Gods of Law, and particularly had plans to expand on Solkan and Arianka, but he lost the license to Arianka and Malal and afterward things just kinda dropped off. They never appeared in WHFB anymore and they haven't shown up in the End Times or Age of Sigmar.

BUT it's worth mentioning that in the Total Warhammer game which is timeline agnostic (WHFB and ET are basically different universes from each other) Light Wizards call on Alluminas, a Law God, for power when they cast spells.

>>If the Gods of Law ARE canon in Fantasy, then they would also exist in 40k as well.

Negative. Don't believe every meme you read there.

Is that why it says they came into being at the same time as the Gods of Chaos?

Because the Gods of Law ARE the Gods of Chaos?

>hurr solkan aint real
>Prove it
>hurr go check out this random section of the warp for 5 minutes
>Ok
>did u see solkan
>Uh no
>then hes not real hurr

Age of Shitmar/40k Belakor is such an annoying fuckwad that gets by on Mary Sue writing alone. I miss his old form where he was a grovelling sycophant who wanted to become a Chaos God but got laughed at because he was clever but colossally incompetent.

In 1e they're actually called Chaos Gods of Law. Law and Chaos Chaos were powerful Warp daemons of vaguely benevolent and evil morality, respectively, who came in and wanted to take over the world. Both come from Chaos, which itself is just the catch all for the Warp.

>Negative. Don't believe every meme you read there.

And we disregard anything you said because you confirmed yourself to be a ignoramus. Especially when the links between both were stronger in earlier universes.

>WHFB and ET are basically different universes from each other

No.

Are you really asking that...? Shared universe. The Chaos Gods in fantasy are the exact same entities as in 40K

A Chaos God can claim the soul of his follower no matter where he ended up in the Warp.

I think "faith" is in the mind, especially of men. It doesn't always mean miracles.

Also proper gods answering prayers being a manifestation of warp magic like a wizard is just propaganda from those barely-not-heretical College loonies.

in earlier editions*

derp

Age of Sigmar introduced that shit. You used to have easter eggs like Chainswords but GW was smart enough to not cross the universes because it'd be dumb.

No one gives a shit what a 40K book says about WHFB.

>No.

Yes.

Don't lie. In the Liber Chaotica it has a fantasy scholar being drawn into the Realm of Chaos where he became a witness to to the events of the 40K universe. From the War in Heaven to Abaddon's Black Crusades.

So you are dumb.

>Liber Chaotica

You mean the easter egg book no one took seriously that was applied to neither system and was their one-off attempt that's prefaced as not solid fact and as an alternate fun idea for crossing minis from both systems on single tables.

>No one gives a shit what a 40K book says about WHFB.

It's not a 40K book and you don't get to autistically dismiss sources.

>Yes

No, they are in the same universe. AoS is the continuation of the WHFB as per GW's word. Get fucked.

>It's not a 40K book

That's 40K's font.

>No, they are in the same universe.

No, they're not.

>AoS is the continuation of the WHFB as per GW's word

AoS is the continuation of the ET, both of which retconned and rewrote a lot of WHFB. They're separate.

>Get fucked.

No, the massive lorebook that meant to explore Chaos and explain it.

And there was no teehee easter eggs there. It has pages upon pages of 40K and fantasy interacting with each other. You continuously being a moron here. Don't throw your autism and opinions as facts.

>That's 40K's font.

It's the WD, dumbass.

>No, they're not.

Yes, they are.

>AoS is the continuation of the ET, both of which retconned and rewrote a lot of WHFB. They're separate.

All of it is WHFB. They are not separate stop lying man. We have the GW words with us. You don't get to rewrite reality with your autism.

WHFB still had "order" gods all the way until the end. Most of the Imperial/Dwarf pantheon, Sotek, certain Elven gods like Vaul, etc..

40k has the Emperor as the God of Order, which is all anyone needs

>No, the massive lorebook that meant to explore Chaos and explain it.

No. Liber Chaotica was classed as "Common", one of a very few books written very early around the time 40K was released to promote it. They tailored the books with Fantasy elements to draw in Fantasy players, as at the time it was GW's only property. 40K was new and untested, and they wanted to get a fan gathering going, so they made a book saying "Hey, combine your minis and armybooks! But buy new ones!" It was a clever strategy, but never meant to be taken seriously, and no one ever took it seriously.

>It's the WD, dumbass

What

>Yes, they are.

No, they're not.

>All of it is WHFB

All of it is ET or AoS.

>We have the GW words with us.

Hollow. empty, meaningless words that a lot of people don't give two skaven asses for, given what they do to once-beloved franchises.

>stop lying man

Stop samefagging.

But the Emperor doesn't embody order at all. He embodies the human race's will to survive

Sigmar, The Dwarfen Gods, and Elven Gods are ascended mortals. These don't count as gods imo.

''Gods of Law'' --> The Old Ones

>No. Liber Chaotica was classed as "Common", one of a very few books written very early around the time 40K was released to promote it.

WHAT? Liber Choatica CAME OUT IN in 40K 4th ED around the 6th ED WHFB. You basically revealed yourself to be a total clueless moron.

>No, they're not.

Your opinion doesn't trump facts.

>All of it is ET or AoS.

WHFB goes to AOS.

>Hollow. empty, meaningless words that a lot of people don't give two skaven asses for, given what they do to once-beloved franchises.

Your words are the one meaningless. It's their setting and you have no authority over it to define it for any user, dumbass.

Ain't he the same guy who did malal ?

>It's their setting
yes, its also a horrible setting now

I disagree. It's more hype than it is ever was before.

sure thing, now go shill your opinions on the AoS general where people love to play with their WoW miniatures

What's that gif from?

And you continue on to be salty at people having fun.

It began production earlier, and 40K was selling abysmally at the time. It was intended to swap the fanbases between each other for sales. Ironic that now the reverse is true.

>Your opinion doesn't trump facts

Does yours?

>WHFB goes to AOS

No, End Times goes to AOS.

>It's their setting

Don't give two fucks.

>no authority over it to define it for any user

One look at any /wfg/ from now to 2013 will show you that most old players hate the new setting and will call it shit from the rooftops.

I continue to be salty that our setting was killed for a WoW clone and now 40k is going the same route.

why are there Orks fighting skeletons ? are they undead in 40k now ?

>It began production earlier, and 40K was selling abysmally at the time. It was intended to swap the fanbases between each other for sales. Ironic that now the reverse is true.

Those are boldface lies after the abysmal stupidity we just witnessed. What you saying is utter nonsense.

>One look at any /wfg/ from now to 2013 will show you that most old players hate the new setting and will call it shit from the rooftops.

Don't lie, user. Your knowledge about the setting and sourcebooks shows that you are a newbie.

>Does yours?

No, facts.

>No, End Times goes to AOS.

Which is WHFB as per GW.

>Don't give two fucks.

Their settings, Their words > yours.

>Their settings, Their words
again, this means absolutely jackshit, people who are not a fan will hate it no matter what and see this as nothing but GW giving excuses for killing fantasy and they are right about that

so yeah if fantasy and 40k are the same universe just get over it, perhaps not the same reality or dimension but the same universe with one warp or infinite warp depending on how much wyrdstone you are eating

regardless, whats that yak about the emperor of mankind being the synthesis of like 30 odd shaman who just fused together to create the emperor. perhaps these where the final preists of the "chaos gods of law" transferring and concealing the last of their respective gods into a single mortal avatar

also amazons have lasguns

>we

>Shows that you are a newbie

Nope.

>No, facts

Opinions

>Which is WHFB as per GW

Don't give two fucks.

>Their settingsd

Don't give two fucks.

>Their words > yours

Death of thr author.

This is a Warhammer Fantasy thread, which may or may not be distinct from 40K.
We'll have to see who wins the "yes/no" battle. I wish one of them would quote an official source or something.

the emperor being the souls of shaman is old lore now

C'mon, I gotta know If It's real or not. I'm guessing no since bones without anything to move them don't do that, but I wanna knowwww.

>we
Notice how you dropped trying to argue at all about the Liber after you were shown to to be clueless about it and practically everything about the development of both settings.

That's funny.

>Death of an author

Doesn't apply here.

Your saying that they are separate setting ignoring all the SOURCES across the years that say otherwise on top that the authors straight up said that WHFB and 40K universes are connected in interviews and seminars, is objectively wrong.

GW also statements that AoS is the continuations of WHFB.

So please your shityy opinion but don't try to lie by saying they are facts or try to put words in GW's mouth.

so what youre saying is that it is obviously the most legit explanation for his existence

what is the new lore, some kind of virgin birth with fancy hair and gold light around him from the get go?

The Emperor now is a member of a subspecies of mankind called the Perpetuals.

ok so a quick search shows that the new and old lore actually arent incompatible, no one knows the way natural born perpetuals like the emperor where created. working within existing fluff that sort of power and ability is naturally derived from the warp, even you basic mutie with a healing power is warp based. thus as the emperor is supposed to have existed since the beginning of civilization i see no reason why ancient shaman couldnt have transferred the remaining pieces of the chaos gods of law into an immortal materium based avatar via a mass self sacrifice

>Little is known about the majority of the Emperor's life; of who he was and what he did before he emerged as the great Emperor of Mankind, only the Emperor himself remembers.[2] A few pieces of information have come to light, from various different sources, and present some small parts of a coherent whole; however, their reliability is often disputed, especially as the Emperor's tale changes somewhat with each retelling. It is said that the Emperor's birth while a natural process, was actually the result of a scheme created by the wisest and most powerful of living humans at that time; the conclave of Shamans. These men, termed 'shamans' by their society, were powerful psykers with great experience of the Warp. Finding their souls - and those of humanity - endangered by the growing perils of the Warp-gods, these psykers decided to pool their power into one human, a being they called 'the New Man'. Already having gained the power to reincarnate themselves (upon death, the shamans' souls would transfer to the Warp, accumulating power enough to reincarnate as human) the shamans entered a suicide-pact. Thousands of them poisoned themselves and sped their souls to the warp at the same time. Presumably pooling their soul-energy and using their reincarnation ability, they brought about the birth of their New Man - the Emperor - one year later.
Canon only wiki:
wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Emperor_of_Mankind

>The previous history of the Emperor is never directly denied, simply forgotten. If we remove it, we are denying others that original idea. At present, GW want nothing but mystery and unravelled and untied threads, the fact is this information WAS Canon, and still IS until such time as it is actively denied or rewritten. The Illuminati and the Sensei are a part of the GW Mythology, heck there was a whole page devoted to a "heretical cult" with their beliefs in just the previous edition of 40K. There does exist, in the fiction, and in reality, a desire to cover it up, but frankly, this old mystery, passed on from older fans to new simply aids in the rich tapestry of 40K history...Or would you rather just say "The Tyranids Ate Them Then Buggered Off" Squats style?

>The Illuminati/Sensei idea has been denied by a member of the design team, in an interview I was reading just the other day. I'll find it and link it here. One of the 'Horus Heresy' novels gives a mention of the Emperor's birthplace, which I will find when I re-read them. As for the Tyranid/Squats thing, Hive Fleet Leviathan is in the areas of the galaxy where the Squat homeworlds were, entering from below the Galactic disc - look at the current Codex: Tyranids.

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Talk:Emperor_of_Mankind

yep thats that

the only truth

also just because im into forcing this new idea, the only way their souls where gobbled up by the warp giving them time to reincarnate or combine into the emperor is because a warp entity like a chaos god of law or perhaps an the warp presence or gods of the old ones sheltered the souls. also as we never hear of this reincarnation following the emperors birth it is logical to assume the entity was destroyed or relegated its power to the emperor

Sure, just keep making shit up.

ok forget the law gods crap, but seriously no mortal soul can survive in the warp without the protection of a warp based entity; human souls in modern 40k only dont feed chaos because their faith and the holy beacon of terra lights their path and allows them to become one with/be consumed be the emperor's warp presence; to maintain an incorporeal human consciousness without a physical body then return into the materium into a new body while retaining your consciousness is quite literally beyond the power of demon lords, the emperor himself, alpha times infinity plus psykers; for these shaman to be able to reincarnate demands the existence of a warp entity that sheltered, preserved and redirected their souls back into the materium. Perhaps it was simply the manifest form of humanity's will to survive or the human spirit. But in any case the point is for the chaos gods, which were in full effect to not immediately eat these shaman's souls there has to be some other power in play ..... so yeah im redirecting you to the chaos gods of law

GW can't copyright Aelves, its an Old English spelling of Elf.

They just think it sounds cool.

Except none of the Gods Of Law actually interact with their followers.

Solkan pretty much just BLAMs shit himself like a meme 40k Inquisitor and doesn't give anything resembling a fuck about actually being a Chaos God, Arianka is locked in a coffin made from magic McGuffin metal so strong it literally only exists in that coffin and even Chaos Gods can't break it, and Alluminas is literally just "fuck off" light that doesn't favor anyone or anything and just does what it wants in a place and manner nobody including other Chaos Gods can understand.

Also, Khorne can't claim Krell. That shit is lost to him forever. Undeath in Warhammer Fantasy forever puts your soul out of the reach of Chaos, the best they can do is put a Daemon in your body.

Give that he gave the greenlight for an Eldar/human alliance, it seems he's decided he's all Order now.

Knowing GW, it's only a matter of time before someone there claims the Anglo-Saxons spelt it with the æ and not "Ae" and tries to copyright the term.

Solkan's got a cult in Marienburg, the Kingts of Purity.

Because it was a straight rip-off of Michael Moorcock's work and they didn't want to get the shit sued out of their asses.