Games with miniatures are bad

Eight Minute Empire, my man. Simple and quick with a bit of strategy and bidding. Plus it's got cards to match up for bonus points so those euro fans don't feel totally left out.

baaaaaw why do people like hobbies that I hate! It's so mean and unfair!

Also fuck ticket to ride.

Well OP, did this thread turn out like you'd hoped?

You can try not playing absolute bottom of the barrel games you know. Though it sounds like you just suck at those games, so maybe change wouldn't help you.

Sounds like you're pretty shit at painting.

You might be a faggot. I’m a normal person so I
>play board games
>collect 40k and other miniature games, play occasionally
>build and paint a scale model periodically whenever I feel like it

You seem like an absolute spastic tbqh

>euro
>fun
Fun is not a measurable criterion, and it's too random to be useful for euros.

>do scale models
That explains so much. Scale modelers are cancer.

Despite the baitiness, there's a point in here. Miniature games are often mechanically bad - overly complex and slow to play, unbalanced, lacking in meaningful tactical choices.

Imagine a miniature game pared down to the bare game itself. Which miniatures games would be good when considered purely on a mechanical basis? Which ones would you still play if it was all wooden blocks? I think these would be the ones that are mechanically good games.

Eurogames tend to be so sparse in attractive trappings that they can't appeal to anything but pure compelling gameplay, and as a consequence a great many are very well designed. Miniatures games have all this other stuff on top that usually hides a bad game.

Now, I actually like all those trappings, the pretty miniatures and all, and prefer games with some extras over the most spartan of eurogames. All that stuff adds to a good game, but it doesn't make it one. My question isn't rhetorical. What are some mechanically good miniatures games? I wanna play them.

Have you op tried the middle ground? Good, self contained eurogames with miniatures. Try some fo the Fantasy flight games that come with minis. If you like the game, you can paint the minis. Easy peacy, lemon squeasy.

So you found your niche. Congratulations.

Soubds like you were just a shitty kid who had a bad time, grew up and have mentally divorced 'cool miniatures' from 'good games'.

Collecting, assembling, painting and scratchbuilding minis is a hobby all its own. Not everyone has your aesthetic taste.if you think a miniature looks cool, no one is forcing you to play the game its from.

Personally I am a fan of Mantics Kings of War and Deadzone systems.

KoW especially has really solid mechanics that leads focus towards movement and positioning of units (or maneuvering dynamic). The game would arguably be best played with flat cardboard terrain and units. If you like KoW, you might want to look at other works by Alessio Cavatore.

Deadzone on the other hand has really good core that leads towards stacking of odds (getting all the bonuses to attack roll). Unfortunately the game wasn't very solid in 1st edition and lost some of it's appeal in 2nd.

I kinda like how solid WarmaHordes rules are, but they are really complex because all of those special rules. In my experiences I always lose because I can't remember some special rule or understand it's actual possible implementations during game. Maybe if I played it more it would be better, but that is too steep learning curve for me.

I think that many miniatures games are designed to be closer to role playing games and because of that, many do not have very solid rule set. Focus is on forging the narrative and seeing a story unfold on the battlefield. When you try to play them as competitive games, you get bad experiences. Wrong tool is applied to wrong job.

Also single miniature wargame takes physical space, time and money of multiple board games. If you can only test 1 miniature game for each 4 board games, it is no wonder that board games tend to look gooder. Especially when there is only like 1 popular miniature game for each 10 popular board games.

This is called Ameritrash. If it's got tight rules and fuck your presentation here's some wooden blocks, it's an Eurogame. If it's got a lot of effort on presentation it's Ameritrash. It's not even a pejorative.

Aaand infinity defence force is once again summoned by any criticim of their game. I too dropped infinity when the N3 brought rules bloat to new heights, CB's ITS encouraged kurwaspam and they did nothing to curtail random crit-hit deaths. The game has lovely minis, and is actively being run into the ground by CB thanks to the echo chamber of it's most hardcore fans.

Have you ever thought that maybe you're just an idiot?

Like I said, the CB defense brigade is always on time. Those ten ammo types really make the game more tactical, right? I especially like viral ammo, because they had to make BTS be not the most useless and unused stat in the whole game somehow.

>an euro board game
Any recommendations? Anyone, not just shitposting OP

>I'm a normal person so I
>collect 40k and other miniature games
good god I'm abnormal. when were you fucks gonna tell me

I think that you're just retarded, user.

This seems to be cool as well as the 40k board game from Fantasy Flight

Yeah minis games are kind of the dregs of design and lol that you can sell incomplete rules no questions asked in this day and age. You could never do that with a legit board game.

Also the board wargames tend to blow the minis wargames out of the water in terms of game design because they actually have to try and live on the gameplay rather than just talking about the 'hobby'

>Which ones would you still play if it was all wooden blocks?
You can play BattleTech with pennies and pieces of paper. In fact, I've done just that. It's totally fine and plenty fun. The rules support you using anything as a stand-in for the real minis as long as you can designate a front to it.

Not OP but Lords of Waterdeep is a nice eurogame. Easy to learn, hard to master. It also isn't always clear who will win until the final count up because of Lord bonuses and corruption etc.

Most decent people with good jobs have high-pressure knowledge/crunch based roles with high budgetary pressures. They can't be stuffed doing the same thing when they get home again, and play a 3 hour game of infinity with 2 of those hours dedicated to searching up the difference between martial arts lvl 3 VS lvl 5, or WTF kinematica is. If you're a single basement dweller working in fast food, then sure, go for your crunch game.

Gloomhaven is great if you're coming in from shit mini games. It really shows you that each piece of mechanism needs to serve a purpose in contributing to player decision, and having fun, not merely being a cog in the machine.

Other great euros are those like pandemic, hansa teutonica, twilight struggle, scythe, power grid.

If you're a decent person, with actual normal friends, then you'll want fun party games like codenames, resistance series, werewolf series, secret hitler, bang, saboteur, etc.

Battletech is pretty much the worst of ameritrash. A very rule-laden game that does nothing in terms of player decision, in the name of "simulation", running a lot of cogs in the game mechanics, wasting a lot of time doing bookkeeping more than anything. What's worse is that it has terrible 80s lore, and even worse miniatures. The worst of ameri-trash.

Great that you can see this. Only decent people with limited time due to good jobs, stable partners, and a great social group will seek out to maximise the efficiency of their enjoyment. Play great games, and paint the minis you want, instead of wasting 100 hours painting 50 ugly ass las-plas-fist marines so you can min-max against another basment dweller who hates you as much as you hate him.

>Played GW, Warmahordes and Infinity
>ALL WARGAMES WITH MINIATURES ARE SHIIIIIIIIIIIT

Maybe don't fall into the comic book shop game trap?

>TFW I work 45 hours a week in finance and yet still have time to do tabletop wargaming at the club.

Your mistakes were playing Warhammer/Warhammer rip offs.

>Work in Finance
>Work 45 hours a week

Choose one, and one only.

You're probably in pesudo finance field like financial planning, or the back office of some back office pleb doing some admin work like opening the mail, or making the coffee.

Finance people I know in actual trading and research positions work 100 hours minimum, and 120 frequently, with actual decent jobs.

I don't consider setting tables for a conference, or advising grandma to take a 2nd mortgage so she can buy your shit products finance. One is glorified fast food, the other is a charlatan.

>Finance people I know in actual trading and research positions work 100 hours minimum, and 120 frequently, with actual decent jobs.
It's bizarre to me to call a 100 hours per week minimum job "decent". Obviously the money must be huge for for anyone to even consider that reasonable but it still amounts to compensation for self inflicted low-key torture at that point.

Managed to snag a game of combat commander:europe and it's pretty great and i don't have to get someone to invest in a big minis game system to get them to play with me. It's also way better than the mini shit.

>when you can't spot a shitposter
Do the math, man: 100 hours per week = 14 hours a day, 7 days a week - and that's minimum.
Man wouldn't even have time to breathe, let alone play.

This?

>have a beautiful Infinity collection and enjoy the competitive nature of it, have fun despite always losing
>meet up semi-regularly for D&D, soon to branch out into other systems
>meet up weekly for some casual MtG
>have several groups of friends ready to meet up for boardgames, from Cards Against Humanity to Twilight Imperium

Sorry about hearing you're a brainlet that can't grasp Infinity and that it's not a cheese game where taking a single murderbot will win you the game. But scale modeling does sound like a good alternative if you're not actually interested in the rules. If I gave a shit about WW2 I'd do it too.

Miniatures games are more about building your army, painting it, writing the background, It's not only about the rules.

When you play with an army after some time you develop a story, an attachment to some heroes/generals, you remember that time when that unit stand against impossibile odds and so on.

You dont' have anything of this type with boardgames. They literally have no personal history.
I don't like Guildball, but I think It's perfectly balanced.

You dumb faggot, they're getting 100 to 120 hours per PAY PERIOD. Thats two weeks in finance. 50 tp 60 hours a week. Thats 10 hours a day, five days a week, with occasional overtime when shit gets buay during tax seaso. Jump off a bridge.

>I played Ticket to ride
That's your problem right there. For some reason you choose to play the single worst euro board game that exists and expected it to not be shit.

I'm just gonna say that as an Infinity player I find the distinction between "eurogames" and miniature games odd, considering Infinity is Spanish.

In fact as a resident of Europe I don't really grasp what a "Eurogame" is. I vaguely understand it as Settlers of Catan or Carcassonne. Does Neuroshima Hex qualify as a Eurogame or is it more specific to mechanics than country of origin?

>Which ones would you still play if it was all wooden blocks?

Chess, checkers and derivatives/similar games. And it's not like chess doesn't have a theme to it. There's a reason chess resonates so strongly with people, we all know what a "king" or a medieval battle is. Sure, some names can change across cultures (e.g. in Poland some people call the Queen "hetman"), but the whole idea of game pieces being a representative of something beyond the game is what makes it memorable. That's why most successful board games have a strong theme, be it trade, settling in a new world, dungeon crawling or battle against evil gods.

Sure, there's quite a lot of old games that go on mechanics alone, like dice games, domino or go. Many of them involve gambling, which is what makes them exciting. But even in gambling the most common theme is cards and cards also feature kings and queens, even if by all means they could have just been higher numbers.

As good as Infinity ruleset is, I probably wouldn't care as much if there wasn't an Afrian catgirl in there.

Where's the brainlet wojak pics when I need them?

You sound like a massive tool, to be frank.

>I too dropped infinity when the N3 brought rules bloat to new heights
That's just objectively untrue though. N3 simplified and unified N2 rules. Just compare the hit-order thing with Surprise Shot of yore with simple "the enemy gets a -3 to Face-to-Face rolls" now.

If anything's bloated it's Hacking, there's no need to have like 4 hacking programs all doing the same, just with different bonuses to attacker or defender. Killer Hackers are a good example, anything that isn't Redrum is just objectively subpar.

If I want to play with blocks, I hang out with my 2 year old niece.

Damn you Infinity for teaching us we must react!

Have you never heard of legacy games?

Legacy games are definitely not the same thing. The whole idea is kind of whack IMO.

>You dont' have anything of this type with boardgames. They literally have no personal history.

You are that special kind ignorant retard. There are groups that come repeatedly to play the same boardgame so much that everything about it gathers a very unique history. and character. Talisman, Diplomacy and Advanced Civilization are the games I've heard most in the this type of context

You can't personalize a boardgame.

Talisman? Do you have your own models, your own background in Talisman? Or in Diplomacy?

If you like one particular character from Talisman you can't personalize him. It's a fucking token, nothing more. You can like him, you can use it how much do you want, but it remains an element in a boardgame, a symbol.

You can't invent a new character in Talisman. I mean, you can do it, but It's not what they are meant to be. They are fixed, static. I can invent my own regiment of knights/space warriors/ etc etc but I can't invent anything in a boardgame, It's all predisposed from the beginning.

Nothing wrong with that, at each its own.

American "work" hours are a joke. 50% of it is people sitting in cancerous meetings doing fuck all. I have never encountered people working as inefficient as americans and i have been to portugal and spain.

Thats because North American work culture stresses looking busy, not actually working. Its not as bad as Japan, but when you have to be at work 8-10 hours a day and there is no incentive for doing more than the bare minimum, why do more?
This is especially bad in middle management, where you can't do anything without approval from above and have to manage the problems from below.

You're an idiot, and here is why.

> Been playing and painting miniatures for nearly 20 years, starting at 3rd edition. Burnt my time away painting nearly 50 shitty looking marines so I can min-max las, plas, fist 5 man squads.I actually really liked dreadnaughts, and the rest of the cheese was to justify me taking a single furioso.

So you got into a game because you liked a mini, tried to play the game, and realized you didn't enjoy it. It happens.

But then you did it a second time. You saw a model you liked, and decided to go all in with a game. Maybe, just maybe, you should have asked someone if you could play a proxy game to feel out the game and see if it's worth buying.

And then you did it A THRID TIME without realizing a pattern - that you don't like wargames. Which is perfectly valid. You're allowed to like things, and not like things. Opinions are fine.

> Grew up, got a great job, got married, start playing euros with actual decent people. Holy chit, its so fun! There's so much talking! I love Hansa Teutonica, even though the cover is the ugliest thing I've seen on a box!

> Bought an airbrush, do scale models, which are 1000x more fun, and less frustrating than miniatures. I don't have to care about lighting angles. Techniques actually make sense, like shading and weathering, rather than stupid shit like painting the edge a lighter colour with a micro brush.

Hey, hey, I got a spoiler for you. What if I told you that enjoying these things and enjoying wargames aren't mutually exclusive.
And also that you can airbrush minis.

> Seen more "games" with beautiful minis, HATE, nemesis, etc. but with absolute shit rules. Its a trap. Was about to buy, then realised all of this.
And here is why you're a moron.
If you like the minis, but not the game, then just buy the minis and don't play the game. It's that fucking easy.

Don't spend all the (you)s, save some for later
Also if you're serious your lack of understanding of painting scares me

>not buying Ameritrash board games instead of cube-pushing auction simulators (minus the excitement of an actual auction) and stick-measuring contest miniature wargames
Pleb.

>always win euro boardgames
>always lose popular minis games

What is wrong?

You know, you can play wargames with any miniatures and you don't have to play 40k or Warmahordes/etc.

You can use those miniatures for other wargames.

You have a head for numbers and similar things needed for Eurogames, but not much mind for positioning/tactical skill/list building needed for wargames?
There's also the thing that boardgames are usually not 1v1 and thus you can have your opponents focusing on someone other than you. Wargames are duels, it's harder to take advantage of people not paying attention or working against each other as much as they work against you.
Lastly in a wargame every player usually brings his own army, much like a deck in MtG. You usually have much less information of what your opponent is capable of than if you're all using the same set.

You could play a minis game.. or you could play CC:E or ASL or a lot of other cardboard wargames with a much better sense for positioning/tactics than minis games.

Literally the only interesting thing in minis games is the list building aspect and the need to paint and hobby kills the experimentation part of it.