I don't understand Wisdom as a stat. Not shit talking, I legitimately don't understand why it exists. Intelligence I understand, but I don't really see why good judgement is a character stat rather than a player-driven thing.
Maybe I'm thinking of it the wrong way. What do you think of Wisdom as a stat, Veeky Forums?
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originally Wisdom was just the 'how good are you at being a cleric' stat. Same as intelligence was merely 'how good at being a wizard are you'.
Since then, they've been kept out of tradition.
I always thought of it as the character's ability to correctly and accurately perceive the world around them, hence why it's tied to skill like sense motive, spot/listen/perception/medicine as well as will saves. It's being free from distractions, the ability to sort through information for the important stuff, and not be fooled and misdirected.
>Maybe I'm thinking of it the wrong way. What do you think of Wisdom as a stat, Veeky Forums?
Your inability to understand why a Wisdom stat exists is very ironic.
Splitting intelligence from wisdom is a D&Dism, but not an egregious one.
Formally, you need to divest yourself from the vocabulary, and approach the two more as Yin and Yang of the mind.
Wisdom is rather Yin. It's the passive, responsive part of the mind, the feminine side that is more attuned with the arts and sensitivity. This isn't direct and constrictive, and more of general tone, just like Yin is. It's more in touch with nature/surroundings, feelings, and experiences. It's also more in touch with secrets and divinity.
Intelligence is Yang, being more aggressive, active, and abstract. It's the more masculine part of the mind, and is more calculating and concerned with information and data. It's the kind of knowledge you can gain from hard study.
(Bear in mind "masculine" and "feminine" are being used here in the generic senses attributed to them by the Chinese).
Because your own ability as a player has no relevance to your characters. If you have amazing common sense, that doesn't by default mean your character should, just like being able to smoothtalk doesn't mean your character is capable of it. Stats exist to help depict people different than ourselves, both playing people less capable in some ways and people more capable in others.
Wisdom would make a lot more sense if it were called "Intuition" or "Perception" instead.
Wisdom doesn't even function as "common sense" though. It's more like your ability to detect shit in the area around you than any philosophical meaning tied to the word.
I mean, why else would animals get a 12-13 Wisdom score?
>Wisdom would make a lot more sense if it were called "Intuition" or "Perception" instead.
More or less. In a sense it's your ability to let your mind get the whole sense of your surrounding, not analyze them. It's not EXACTLY perception either, is the ability to... apply your abilities without losing the bigger picture.
The bumbling professor that doesnt' remember his keys anytime but can be pretty amazing with equations is the classic low wis high int, I guess something like the trapper than can barely read but will be perfectly ready for any survival challenge is the opposite.
>Wisdom doesn't even function as "common sense" though
It kinda does, hence the broader separation from Perception.
>why else would animals get a 12-13 Wisdom score?
They're animals with enough primal understanding of the world around them to survive, and be aware of it. Wisdom being tied to that makes sense.
Wisdom is tied to Perception, noticing things, while Intelligence is tied to Investigation, which is looking for things. The subtle difference is important.
>More or less. In a sense it's your ability to let your mind get the whole sense of your surrounding, not analyze them. It's not EXACTLY perception either, is the ability to... apply your abilities without losing the bigger picture.
Then call it Intuition then. Gives you the same basic premise without having any overlap with the concept of intellect.
I brought this up and got an answer from a more experienced friend about "street" intelligence and an "institutional" variant.
So, Wisdom lets you become more aware of the world but Intelligence is more focused on studying practices and details.
I prefer to think of them as "situational awareness" and "attention to detail", which is one model to justify why we have brain hemispheres.
>very ironic.
You failed your intelligence roll. Something can't be very ironic. It's either ironic or it isn't.
Intelligence is being able to make dinosaurs. Wisdom is understanding that doing so will end badly and you'll have only yourself to blame for it.
...
>I don't understand Wisdom as a stat.
That's because you dumped that stat, obviously
Nonsense, the more blunt the message the stronger the irony.
I've been playing D&D since 1995 and I don't get it either. It should be straight up be Willpower and Perception.
Give me a time machine and I'll tell Gary back then, user.
If the stat's purpose is so core to play, why was it ex post facto?
>without having any overlap with the concept of intellect.
journals.sagepub.com
Intelligence is what you know such as history and math and science
Wisdom your ability to critically think in terms of philosophy and metaphysics
It's easier to provide an example than it is to explain it:
Someone with autism or asbergers syndrome can have high intelligence, but staggeringly low wisdom due to their inability to conceptualize, relate, or understand and notice the world around them and so forth.
There's also a joke saying, but I think it's excellent that goes: "Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit, but wisdom is knowing you shouldn't put a tomato in a fruit salad."
Tell him to nix the rest of the sacred cows while you're at it.
>wisdom lets you perceived the world around you and discern what is real
>used by a class that worships gods
LOL
...In a setting where divinities are tangibly, provably real?
>the medicine skill is based off Wisdom instead of Intelligence
How is this acceptable?
Because historical medicine relied a lot more on herb lore and practical experience than intense academic study.
>lore
Intelligence based
>experience
Skill rank based
4e swapped Nature over to Wis, which made a lot of sense but got swapped back because Int needs to stay overloaded, apparently.
Wisdom also allows you to perceive the unperceivable, it's the perfect stat for a class that worships gods who are aloof and ineffable, assuming the gods exist. If the gods didn't exist, then Charisma would make more sense.
4e put a lot of the 'practical experience' knowledges in wis. Dungeoneering and Nature, so druids and rangers don't...suck at it.
Advanced
>Intelligence represents a character's memory, reasoning, and learning ability.
>Wisdom represents a composite of a character's intuition, judgment, common sense, and will power.
3.5th Edition
>Intelligence determines how well your character learns and reasons.
>Wisdom describes a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition. While Intelligence represents one’s ability to analyze information, Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings.
4th Edition
>Intelligence (Int) describes how well a character learns and reasons.
>Wisdom (Wis) measures your common sense, perception, self-discipline, and empathy. You use your Wisdom score to notice details, sense danger, and get a read on other people.
5th Edition
>Intelligence measures mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and the ability to reason.
>Wisdom reflects how attuned you are to the world around you and represents perceptiveness and intuition.
becuase players who don't have good judgement should be able to play characters who do, and vice-versa. Just like physically weak or frail players should be able to play Conan-style characters.
Intelligence is knowing that tomatoes are a fruit.
Wisdom is knowing that they probably wouldn't be very good in a fruit salad.
Upvoted.
Wisdom works well for sanity, kind of.
STR
DEX
CON
---pysical stats---
INT
WIS
CHA
----mental stats---
fite me
wisdom actually is that tehy WOULD be good in a fruit salad
Because it isn't good judgement, it's how good your senses are. It has no relation to the actual word wisdom.
so intelligence is knowledge and wis is intelligence? So a cleric sucks unless he is very good at critical thinking?
I'm afraid to ask why this image exists, but I must know.
Mental stats are for players who have none.
Fantasy Age has "Willpower" as an ability. I think that makes a little more sense than Wisdom. It's used by mages as a secondary stat (ie int to hit spells wp for damage) and of course for things like courage, self-discipline, etc.
I hate a lot of things about FAGE but they got some things right. Would like to see some of their better ideas stolen for D&D 6
Int is book smarts, Wis is street smarts
I don't really like the int/wis/cha divide but I run a 5e game so I have to deal with it.
Int is knowledge and analytical ability. Objective facts. Someone with high int can process complicated concepts and intuitively put things together. If you can apply an equation or process to something it's probably something intelligence deals with. Wizards need high intelligence because their spells take immense mental effort just to comprehend and recall, like alien n-space mathematics.
Wis is a combination of judgement, perception, and insight. It's your ability to interpret more subjective material. Wisdom is applying abstract concepts like philosophy and religion, not taking things at face value, and learning the right lessons from life experiences. Clerics need high wisdom so they can 'get it' in a spiritual sense. Many spells are resisted by wisdom because wisdom manages one's self-control and awareness.
Charisma is one's force of personality and ability to interact with others in desirable ways. It's a combination of body language, tone, force of personality, and such things. I don't think the rules ever say this, but I stick any soul mechanics into charisma as well, because that ties nicely into how sorcerers and bards use cha, and the source of their magic is essentially raw inner power made material.
Divided like this, and with the caveat that not every point applies equally to every person, I can usually rationalize why someone has the stats they do.