Prospero Burns

You genuinely don't know how dogs work, do you?

The Emperor, so far as Russ was concerned, said Magnus was a traitor. So Magnus was a traitor, and only the Emperor could tell him otherwise. Which was basically impossible because guess what, Magnus ruined the Golden Throne and the boss was busy.

>doesn`t he need any input?

Not how a pack works.

>You genuinely don't know how dogs work, do you?
>The Emperor, so far as Russ was concerned, said Magnus was a traitor. So Magnus was a traitor, and only the Emperor could tell him otherwise.

But that is not what Emps said

> “Valdor remained unmoved. ‘Even now, I would see him taken to Terra, if it could be done. I would wish to know why.’ Russ laughed, a coarse bark that sent more spittle flying into Valdor’s faceplate. ‘You’re still clinging to that? Ha!’ He turned away, swinging his greatblade casually. ‘I’ve known since I first saw this world that we would face one another. I did not come here for prisoners, Constantin. If my Father had truly wished for such, He would not have sent me.’ ‘You were not sent alone, Lord Russ.’ Russ glanced back at Valdor, a sly smile on his fanged face. ‘Oh, that’s it, is it?’ He laughed again, but it was an ice-cold sound. ‘You have the power of Magisterium, and wish to cling to it.’ Russ paced back to him again. He was always moving, restless, like a tempest bound up inside the sham-form of a man. ‘Don’t try to invoke the Lex with me. You claim to speak for my Father, but you’re not His blood, are you? Not like we are. That’s what really gets you, isn’t it? You’re His instruments. He’d toss you aside in an “instant if He cared to. We, though. We. We’re family.’ Russ gave out a great belly-laugh then, amused by the idea. ‘You’ll never understand that.’ Valdor didn’t reply for an instant, seemingly genuinely nonplussed. ‘There are so many errors there,’ he said eventually, ‘I do not even know where to start.”

Excerpt From: Chris Wraight. “Magisterium..

>You claim to speak for my Father, but you’re not His blood, are you? Not like we are. That’s what really gets you, isn’t it? You’re His instruments. He’d toss you aside in an “instant if He cared to. We, though. We. We’re family.’ Russ gave out a great belly-laugh then, amused by the idea. ‘You’ll never understand that.’ Valdor didn’t reply for an instant, seemingly genuinely nonplussed.
Interesting how both primarchs and custodes seem to think that they're the favorites and the others are just instruments.

One is following the edict of Emps to the letter, the other just twisting it to do what he wants.

Probably but that's not what I was talking about. If you read Master of Mankind you see that the Custodes also think the Emperor prefers them over the primarchs. I find that interesting.

Also from Chris Wraight's Scars, Malcador even says that Magnus was to be censured, not destroyed. So Russ really screwed the pooch.

Well yes, I read it too, Emps has more affection to the custodes than to the Primarchs, using their numbers instead of names and all that.

We already know that the Primarchs thought he loved them as sons, and that he didn't. We also have reason to believe he always planned to cause infighting between them to cull the undesirable ones.

The Custodians, on the other hand, were his ever loyal tools that were utterly devoted, full stop, and had no delusions about what they were to the Emperor. They were also kept in much closer confidence than the Primarchs, much like Malcador.

To be fair, everyone who talks to the Emperor hears what they want to hear. The Primarchs saw a loving father, scientists saw a clinical academic, the Custpodians simply saw an Emperor they lived to serve.

Only the Emperor truly knows himself. Malcador maybe knows a bit of the truth.

Russ set that into motion, it didn't happen as Russ claimed either before or after.

>Russ set that into motion
Magnus did.

Said book also has Magnus stating that while Russ is an asshole he was just following orders and not responsible for Prospero. He goes on to state that he (Magnus himself) is half responsible, with the Emperor sharing the other half of the blame due to his tendency to keep secrets from his Sons.

It's a reference to Eaters of the Dead, or rather the 13th Warrior. You know, the story about an Arab chronicler who ends up following a group of Norsemen?

To also be fair, their names are very, very long.

I've not read much of Kyme and Thorpe's books but how can they be worse than Wraight?

>Magnus Did Nothing Wrong: The Book

He did not wreck the home pnanet of the WB. He wrecked a planet of em.

And regarding ignoring direct orders - Russ did so, too.
The order was "bring Magnus to Terra" not "Burn down Prospero and murder everyone, also ignore those sons of Horus harvesting psykers. Also kill your brother."

He did plenty wrong. For him to actually fall a lot of factors had to align however. Had any not done so he would've stayed loyal.
The tragedy is that no one involved questioned himself and thus played to Tzeentch's tune.

Because things that had to align were the dumbest possible ones. Magnus' "fall" to Chaos was so contrived I am having hard time believing that Magnus ever thought he was actively betrayed by the Imperium at any stage. And don't get me started on the shards.

>a lot of factors had to align
Only in the novel version of the events.

Every other version of the story is bretty fucken simple.

>Leman 'My marines use upside-down pistols' Russ
>Leman 'Wooden shields and leather helmets' Russ
>Leman 'I could've taken Horus, but nah, man, he not worth it' Russ
>Leman 'Let's ignore Emp's orders and go with my guts' Russ
>Leman 'MY librarians aren't librarians, so I get to keep them' Russ
>Leman 'I'll antagonize my closest allies over nothing' Russ
>Leman 'behaving like a drunk madman is proper behavior' Russ
>Leman 'how many tactical blunders can I make in a day?' Russ
>retarded
Well, I don't know, you tell me.

man in light of what g-man said about how emps viewed his sons, Russ turns in to a deeply tragic character, that did everyone he could for his family and love, but was surounded by people who were sociopaths. russ was a good doggo.

You know, here's a question. Did Russ actually know that the order to kill Magnus didn't come from the Emperor? Like, Horus is Warmaster, and Russ doesn't have any reason NOT to trust him.

I mean, Horus probably went:

> "Russ, I know Dad told you to censure Magnus. But what Father meant is that Magnus is an embarrassment. You know what to do, right?"

You know, the whole "Will no one rid me of this priest?" thing.

> Russ doesn't have any reason NOT to trust him.
Except verified intel saying that Horus is a traitor that is

Do you think that the reason Russ wants to go alone against Horus in this book is that he has finally realized his fucks ups and wants some kind of atonement?

This doesn't make any sense. The Emperor would've told Russ if he wanted Magnus dead. He wouldn't be cryptid about it

No, I think it's because he's retarded.

Except Russ had a hateboner for Magnus and took the flimsiest of excuses as valid to do what he did. Horus knew this would happen and egged him on.
tl;dr Russ is a gullibile idiot.

Could the Custodes be the closet to biological sons he has? More than the Primarchs? But then who are the mothers? The SoS?

The custodes don't see the emperor as a father figure.

I fear the big tweest will be that the emperor thinks of the primarchs as tools to allow him to justify what he's done they turn out to be his actual children who he removed from their mother(s), stuck in tanks, gene modified and infused with wierd essences of his own power

There`s no need for mothers. And it has been already shown that the embryos were grown in tanks.

More likely he tried to do that for the sake of bragging rights that he was the one to slay Horus.

So the midwit hack BL "authors" can't write characters with superhuman intellects anywhere near convincingly and your conclusion is "Well, gee, I guess the Emperor and the primarchs were dumb."

It's kinda letting these shit writers off the hook, isn't it?

Horus being a traitor does not exclude Magnus being one.
In the Emperor's order for Magnus' censure, Russ saw a message - perhaps one whose meaning only he may have been party to. Besides, the Edict of Nikaea was pretty clear.

>bring Magnus to Terra
Is dead Magnus still Magnus? The genecraft invested into primarchs makes their corpses quite an asset if one knows what to do with them.

What would have happened had the Emperor sent any of the other (not traitor yet) primarchs? Curze for example. I can't believe that could end well.

>Expecting tg40k fans to be literate in anything but pasta and black library.

> (OP)
>Horus being a traitor does not exclude Magnus being one.
>In the Emperor's order for Magnus' censure, Russ saw a message - perhaps one whose meaning only he may have been party to. Besides, the Edict of Nikaea was pretty clear.

Ok since we are going to play like that, Russ should had beheaded Malcador too, and killed the Khan, Roboute and Sangui, after all, they all used psykers, right?. And the edict of Nikea was never rescinded.

to write the emperor in a proper way one would have to have been to a real war, or at least was working for something else then GW their whole life.
Give a writer a tour of duty on a crab travler or make him work two-three winters on oil rigs in sub zero or help with foresting. And they will make war and leaders feel real.

Oh my days. If you think Wraight is bad (I find him variable at best), you are going to hate Thorpe and Kyme. Seriously, they both have the creative writing skill of an impacted bowel. Thorpe blatantly got his gig solely because of his og credentials, but I dread to think how many dicks Kyme had to suck to get a publishing deal. Then again, BL standards are pretty fucking low, so maybe they both keep getting work because they aren't Goto.

That's not even remotely true, you illiterate cockstain.

>superhuman intellect
>Russ
Russ is a dog, never intended to wield any intellect.

That's really cool. I don't read much 40k other than Gaunt's Ghosts, does black library do homages a lot? I heard one Conrad Curze book is a retelling of Heart of Darkness

He's semi-right, experience in the topic helps flush the scenes out in writing

>I heard one Conrad Curze book is a retelling of Heart of Darkness
Another is of Pinochet's cullings.

guys, guys, guys
let's all calm down, take a step back
and just all agree that Russ is/was an irredeemable faggot. Full Stop. And move on with our lives

But that's been clear from the beginning user.

My great fear is that some BL writer will reveal that E-Money had some sort of Consort supplied eggs to make the embryos or worse be used as a way to shoehorn in she-mehreens.

The book basiclly proves magnus's faluts were
>His hubris
>He was arrogant
>He loved his dad to much
>Apparently he called daddy during private sisters of silence time.
>Kinda broke a pipe in the basement while he was practicing his kick ass waro moves and wanted to appologize to his dad.

Only after all this he said fuck it I'm out. To this day he still does not know that it was Horus who betrayed him and ordered the kill iirc

Oh, it can absolutely help, but it's in no way an essential prerequisite, as centuries of literature can attest.

You know the stuff that annoys me most about Burning of Prospero is FW made the Thousand Sons like 60,000 strong instead of really small like the novel established

I'm autistic like that

Man Lorgar is such a little fucking bitch

You are bitching that the primary creators of the lore made a move that made sense, compared to a writer from a group WELL KNOWN for fucking it up consistently?

The ridiculously un-subtle "references" (i.e. lazy copying) is probably the 4th worst thing about Black Library after Goto, Thorpe and Abnett's inability to write endings.

John Grammaticus knows, he describe him as living terror after they shake hands and John having flash/glimpse of E mind.

Eh not like the primary creators aren't prone to massive fuck ups or simply shoehorning in what ever new direction is demanded to fit in new miniatures or promote sales.

>*wet leopard growl*

So is Russ, Horus, Perturabo and Konrad

Like what?

Primaris marines come to mind.

40k isn't about realism. Thousand Sons should be a minuscule legion.

Oh definitely. I thought you meant Forge World.

Do we have any more leaks about Wolfsbane?

I'm reaally curious if Horus would go "Thanks btw" for Prospero when Wolf vs Wolf happens.

Off-topic, but what was the title of the book that has a chapter from the POV of a weak psyker about to get fed to the Astronomican?

One question I've always been tempted to post a thread on concerns the fall of Prospero. It has to do that Tzeentch being god of Just as Planned, and inevitably one legion would have fallen to them, if Magnus didn't fuck up, The Emperor send Russ and Russ over-react and it ended up with the Thousand Sons remaining loyal and present on Terra for the siege, which legion would have Tzeentch taken instead? And what outcome would this have on the setting overall? All hypothetical but it's an interesting question.

Let's imagine a little, not very credible twist. Horus incapacitates Russ, imprisons him, then Omegon shows up and takes his skin and armor to impersonate him and goes to Terra with other space wolves impersonators to announce that Horus is dead, everyone rejoices, but he reveals his identity when Horus actually shows up. And Russ frees himself and goes to fight without a face, resembling a wulfen.

>which legion would have Tzeentch taken instead?
Come on, don't pretend you don't know it.

They were already traitor I suppose, which is why I didn't consider it, and yeah, spot on. Refining the question which Loyal legion would have Tzeentch taken in the Thousand Sons place? I'm thinking either Angels, or White Scars.

Which angels ? The red ones or the dark ones ?

Even Grammaticus only saw what he wanted to. He hates everything the Emperor did and was (calling him a "genocidal maniac"), so he saw a living manifestation of everything he feared about him.

It would be interesting to know what Malcador sees.

I think the most interesting thing seen is what that one SoS who can't be deceived sees - just a man, with a few light age lines, in a chair.
I can't remember, but I remember reading about it. The psyker was a young girl who could barely do jack shit, and never really knew what was happening, but was filled with incredible dread.

Either, both could slot into Tzeentch, The Red ones due to their psychic stuff, plus need to be free of the flaw, or the Dark Ones due to their secretive and conspiritorial natures. Hence it's a hard one to call.

What would Tzeentch Blood angels or Dark Angels be like flavor wise?

What about Raven Guard ?

True, as I said, it's a question I've always kinda wanted to put into a thread, what would the individual loyal legions look like if Tzeentch claimed them instead of the Sons? One of those threads where you just let fat/gt/uys get creative and pray to god you don't get the shills and autists in to crash it into the ground through their hostile, spergy bullshit. It always amazes me somewhat in a hobby that is supposed to be about creativity and imagination you get loud fuckers heavily opposed to both.

You’re thinking of the bit from Master of Mankind, when the Unspoken Sanction gets enacted.

The girl, whose abilities are only that she can hear the dead, is presumably the first person ever sacrificed to the Golden Throne.

Dark Angels: more secrecy and pride, mutating swords and armors
White Scars: just a bit more bloodthirst and sorcery even though they want to believe they're sort of "good" and neutral in the face of the imperium, don't ally much with anyone also the bikes themselves become possessed and go weird ways, sometimes much faster, sometimes they change directions etc
Space Wolves: werewolves, mutations, horrific mutations, also secrets
Imperial Fists: more moving fortresses in space plus moving fortresses on earth and moving fortresses everywhere actually also yellow is a color for traitors.
Blood Angels: cured of the thirst but become daemonic in appearance, can look angelic if they consume blood. Plotting the demise of mankind, also vampire courts with plots hierarchy etc
Iron Hands:more Dark mechanicum, super hacking tools, also strength through planning better than your enemy
Ultramarines: ambition, ambition, ambition everything is ambition
Raven Guard: more shadows and magic, evil infiltrators à la metal gear solid, liberating every rebel to the imperium.
Salamanders: more humanism. Too much, in fact. (look at the radical left for an example)

All good but the Blood Angels are the fucking best on that list, definitely would go for that, dead set awesome.

OK, Loyalists gone Slaanesh cause this is fun and you're on some good creative shit user.

>White Scars
Why's that? Their shamans and Mongolrian tactics?

I hate the chaos gods actually, but I'll try.
DA: different prideful chivalric orders competing for ultimate martial prowess with lust here and there and they elaborate complex intrigues just for the thrill of it, without any real benefit
WS: They go REALLY fast, so much that they trade their bikes for jetbikes and the human eye can barely follow them. They pride themselves on martial honour, allowing for fair fights, but they fight everyone, without ever caring for a cause or the consequences of their actions. With much more war poetry, they chant it loudly during fights, engrave it on their armors and tatoo themselves like the WB.
SW: They feast too much, they eat and drink and fuck like crazy, not much infighting, but they're a huge threat to any other space marine legions, a fact they pride themselves on
Imperial Fists: their citadels are now made of beautiful and resistant gems, their armors as well
Blood Angels: they want to drink blood from as much species and individuals as necessary in order to feel everything they felt and increase in knowledge in a quest for perfection possibly with some lust
Iron Hands: they become extremely tough robots inside, with a perfect appearance, but a diminished capability to feel much other than the very lack of emotion, now they hack people's brains in hopes of feeling their emotions but it 's never enough, they need more
Ultramarines: they become like living statues of alabaster and marble, their every move calculated to be magestic
Raven Guard: they strive to be as perfectly invisible and shadowy as possible basically living in darkness, also infiltrating imperial worlds and corrupting them in various ways
Salamanders: they retain their care for people, but it is only for themselves this time, they craft for themselves the finest of weapons and armors, they offer cool trinkets to corruptable people in order to gain influence and power

>bit more bloodthirst and sorcery
I don't know user. White Scars sorcery isn't as notable as some other librarian-heavy chapters and the bloodthirst doesn't have much to do with Tzeetch, more so his competitor.

White Scars seem more likely to fall to the other Chaos gods. Real-life Mongolians spread plague by, in a few rare instances, catapulting the plague victim's corpses into besieged cities/forts...White Scar Nurglites would have been interesting.

Or maybe the hunts they go on opened them up to Khorne (bloodlust, taking skull troohies) or Bitchboi (pleasure in the hunt, perfecting one's skills).

Which is why I just said "a bit" more. It's not really excessive, but just enough to be evil.

Of course bloodthirst and sorcery is always excessive but you get what I meant.

bump