Because the last thread went rather well and I still have questions that I'm too lazy to research or figure out on my...

I'm not familiar with the direct attack extra. I know there's an example in the book where a power with partial ranks of AoE gets to roll an attack against the main target and then on a miss that target (plus anyone else in the AoE regardless) needs to roll dodge against the AoE. That example always seemed super munchkiny, but I guess direct attack is a similar extra that charges 1 PP/rank to balance it?

Anyway, with an AoE multiattack direct attack damage power I figure there are a couple of options.

>multiattack vs. single target
Roll to hit the single target, with multiattack bonuses for additional degrees of success. If you miss that target needs to make a dodge check against the AoE, as do all nearby targets regardless.

The way I'd rule it is that in no case will a target ever take damage more than once from the power. They take 11 damage if they're directly hit, or 10 damage if they fail to dodge the AoE, but never both. Similarly they'll only ever take the AoE damage once per turn, even if you shoot ten guys with an AoE power.

M&M is pretty strict about only letting an effect apply once per turn, and I don't see why this would be an exception.

Behold, the Prince of Light! The Son of the Sun!

El Dorado!

Direct attack you need to pay the cost of everything but aoe for points per rank

A lot. Warriors & Warlocks added a bunch of feats with non-replicable effects and explicitly added powers-as-feats instead of another book's suggestion that it's a thing or drawing up a power and adding Innate to get taxed for your effort, Mecha & Manga did the same thing and added new modifiers, flaws, and extras on top of expanding the game's vehicle and companion rules immensely.

The vehicle and companion rules are fine, if anything they are probably overtuned in favor of the player. Powers as feats is doable in the current ruleset by just building the power, and tossing innate on it if it makes sense, and permanant on it if it is a constant effect.
I am not seeing anything listed that can not be replicated in the current rules.

No, running a mecha game in 3E would be retarded because the vehicle rules are not intended to be a main focus of a game, they're a sideshow.

Explain how they do not work.

They're stripped down to the point of not being functional as the focus of a campaign, as were the base vehicle rules for 2E, and lack the special support and rules Mecha & Manga had for them. It's really not that hard.

I see no issues with running them as the focal point, there are even rules for allowing them to use all the same functions as a full character.

Has anyone done anything more with the Joyous Harbor setting?

And for reference here are the mecha rules for 3e.

Now consider that Mecha & Manga's rules for mecha are something like seven times that size, has more useful examples, and has things that can't be replicated in 3E without stepping into houserule territory.

Such as?
I have yet to see any examples.

Read the book.

I don't have it, and I don't play second edition so I have no reason to go dig it up.
But as someone actually playing a mecha pilot in 3e I have had no issues and feel equal with other players at the same PL. In fact we had to put some house rules on the mech so it was not more powerful then the other players.

I love the idea of a superpowered wrestling league like Marvel had for a sec in 80's.

We should talk.

I always add at least one wrestler and one luchador to all M&M games, but at one point, I had a American Hero Wrestling Federation full of every wrestling archetype you can think of.
Tho the 5 midgets that could SHAZAM into a single fat wrestler stole the game

So... are we brainstorming this?
Cause I'll throw in my Corázon de Léon (Lionheart), mexican wrestler and ki user. Like a traditional mexican wrestling hero he has no civilian identity and only takes the mask off to shower. If an enemy ever takes his mask he will have to kill him or give up fighting FOREVER.

I always wanted a superhero MMA league. Superstrong bricks specializing in boxing and greco roman wrestling vs Mexican Luchadors who get their powers from their masks vs Catgirl judoka from Japan. Just go crazy with it.

I had a superhero, Flying Dragon, that went the other way around, starting as a MMA fighter who wanted to prove his family style could work in competition despite being a very acrobatic, jumping and spinning wuxia type style. Eventually after winning a title fight he breaks the mental barrier and starts using ki, so he retires from the ring and goes on to become a hero.

MMA? Ech. Just go full cheesy wrestling action. Make some baby faces, heels, jobbers, etc. In a world of superpowers, anyone can jump on the ring so, bring the high flyers from Mexico, the crazy shit Japs and the sturdy muricans.
Go nuts goddamn it. Who gives a fuck about boring ass techniques?

MMA is supposed to be fighters of multiple styles fighting against each other. It homogenized into the best techniques for it's particular type of competition and basically became its own martial art, but still the name works as a short hand for "guys of different styles fighting each other"
Wrestling is soap opera with acrobatics and choreography.

New thread topic: Superhuman MMA fighters. What are their gimmics and what are their styles and what are their powers? How does a fight promoter balance fights between widely different powersets?

I feel like every luchador type hero needs something like the following power

Dynamic Entry (Speed 8+, limited to entering a scene via flying elbow drop)

...

MMA dont have gimmics..or luchadores for the record, nor any of the unrealistic moves like DDT, backbreaker, tombstone, etc, etc

So if you had a negative -1 dodge and parry could you have a toughness 21 at pl 10?

The numbers check out. GMs are told to beware of people specifically maxing out toughness though and going overboard is even more pushing the vague guidelines so I wouldn't do it.

>MMA dont have gimmics
MMA is nothing but gimmicks.

Yeah it's weird to me that toughness is so much better then parry and dodge, and cheaper on top of that.

It isn't exactly better, since damage can scale faster than your Toughness can. They also say that stacking for Dodge+Parry isn't generally okay either. (Also Power Attack can destroy your Toughness spec.)

Yeah but aoe for instance you always take half reguardless of dodge, well you get full toughness, and since the cap is dodge + toughness and parry + toughness, it is easier to hit the cap by simply investing into toughness.

>max out Toughness
>ignore Will

kekaku dori

You can always do perception range + alternate resistance (dodge) if someone's got crazy high toughness.

You can max toughness and will if you want.

You're thinking about fortitude. Although having high fort matches the high tough, it's not necessary.

You could. If you do that I reccomend making a character that has invulnerability as his main selling point. No movement powers, very little attack and damage. Go for skills, maybe as a detective or face and utility powers if you have points remaining.

A near invulnerable, flying combat monster is fun for a one shot, but for a long campaign is a chore for the DM and annoying for the other players.
An invincible detective, who needs the teams help to escape a prison and to fight enemies, but who can tank damage and play Jason Vorhees for a bully villain, can be a really fun party member.

>You could. If you do that I reccomend making a character that has invulnerability as his main selling point. No movement powers, very little attack and damage

Cap your attack and then just make defensive attacks all day, to really go for that super tanky feel.

After thinking through six hous of dull work, A metahuman fighting league would be a mix of MMA and wrestling, but a) wouldn't work for actual dedicated superheroes/villains, b) wouldn't work too well in a wider setting.
As its own comedic setting it can work, but I wouldn't include it on my setting.

On the other hand what campaign could work on near any setting for a superhero tournament?
OG Mortal Kombat.
A demonic or alien invasion, that has to abide to a contract of pitting champion versus champion in a tournament and can only go forth if they win is a great setup.
>Normal superheroes want to save the world. Also a good chance to settle who's really the strongest, or they may take a fall to allow the most suitable hero to fight the iinvasion champion.
>Martial artists looking for strong opponents (Ryu and Goku) see it as an opportunity to fight heroes and villains without having to become villains or heroes. They may become new heroes or villains.
>Some prize for the winner brings in mercenaries, greedy martial artists and some supervillains. The invasion may also bribe some of these to defeat heroes and then take a fall against their champions.
Bonus, if they lose and the actual invasion starts, you can default to a moe normal superhero event fighting the invaders.

We had like five posts last thread explaining how ridiculously unbalancing it is to have a character with 20 toughness.

Is toughness 20 still broken if you only have impervious 7?

Impervious 7 is literally a waste of points if you have Toughness 20. It only negates attacks that do 4 damage.

You'd need to have Impervious 12 for it to even matter.

At Toughness 20, it's mathematically impossible to fail a check against any attack that does less than 6 damage. And an attack that does 16 damage (a punch from Wonder Woman, for example) has a 50% chance of doing nothing

Technically it still keeps you invulnerable to 4 and lower damage if Toughness gets drained.

You can, but a player maxxing Toughness is probably going to forget to pump Will because of tunnel vision and/or running out of points.

Well I maxed Toughness for my characters Mech, and then because it is a construct it is immune to Will innately, and I gave it immune to fortitude for being a robot.

Someone help me make Kamen Rider #1 for a PL 8 game. I'm new to M&M 3e and don't really know where to begin.

I suppose you could kick people and be good at posing for a start... I dunno, I dunno much about KR and M&M

The original Kamen Rider is a 600 IQ genius biologist and a pro bike racer, his cyborg body can withstand 100000 volts and various other hazards that would kill lesser men, and he also has super senses. In his transformed state he can jump 15 meters up and has super strength and toughness. He can also communicate telepathically with his partner, Kamen Rider #2, from thousands of kilometers away. His bike, the Cyclone, can jump 30 meters and go at 400 km/h. To transform, the turbine in his belt needs to get spun by wind, which usually comes from riding his bike.

>To transform, the turbine in his belt needs to get spun by wind, which usually comes from riding his bike.
Or jumping.

>A punch from Wonder Woman does 16 damage.
That's bullshit. She pulled Martian Manhunter out of black hole. No way that's her punching damage.

>PL 8
At such a low level just go bitch basic. Make a martial artist archetype with life support and a few ranks of toughness to represent being a cyborg.

As you level up add Powers that enhance your strength, fight, and stamina to represent getting better cyborg upgrades/"adapting" to your new body.

For the motorcycle just start with a basic one out of the book. If you really like it start upgrading it. If you REALLY like it you can turn it into a sapient sidekick like Kamen Rider Black's.

Adding a limit that you need to transform to use your powers could be a way to cut down on points-but keep in mind that Kamen Rider #1 technically was super powered full time unlike later Kamen Riders.

Add a sword because Kamen Rider had a habit of picking up and using the swords of dead Shocker grunts.

Add a power that lets you make a Presence check against everybody's will to represent if your dynamic posing distracts them.

Use All-Out attack to represent CHO! RIDER KICKKKKK and other finishing moves.

It's a supers game, where having Superman and Batman on the same team is a feature not a bug.

Toughness 20 is only a problem if it's not fun for the group, like minmaxing for combat and hogging the spotlight during every fight. Note I did suggest on how to integrate a toughness 20 character while still being a team player.

Heck even that can be fun if the group builds around it. I played a short campaign where one player was a dumb superman that could solo most combat and the rest of the team was utility powers, magicians and detectives. We solved the situations until the time of clean-up and then pointed "Guardian, smash those guys"
I find it helps a lot with new players if you realize their dreams of being overpowered early on so they can learn to make more balanced characters later.

A concept I had was a humanoid alligator named Alabama Slamma. Wrestling star from the bayou.

all.your-base.org/Rules/MM3/DC Adventures Heroes And Villains Vol 2.pdf
Pretend the stats are for the Justice League cartoon where everything is just a little bit weaker for the sake of tension and batman.

This is something that has been bugging me for centuries: how does memory actually work? Do you roll for it? What do you even roll? Intel? Insight!?

Should make a supers general.

Also, how would you stat this guy in HERO System? I suspect alotta CSLs and naked advantages for guns and some good old judo

Bonus points for M&M