How does a "water element" actually hurt people? I'd imagine an elemental might just smash you or drown you...

How does a "water element" actually hurt people? I'd imagine an elemental might just smash you or drown you, but a water elemental attack? How does that hurt you?

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In Burning Wheel, Fire and Earth spirits attack you to deal damage, but Air and Water spirits grapple you

>Water elemental wizards create a small tidal wave of water and sling it at you
>this is the same as an extremely technologically advanced water jet

As the two youtube videos already posted demonstrate, highly-pressurized water jets can cut through steel.

>How does a "water element" actually hurt people? I'd imagine an elemental might just smash you or drown you, but a water elemental attack? How does that hurt you?

A water elemental is actually a conduit to the Elemental Plane of Water. They just envelop you and increase their pressure.

>can have fire explode
>can have fire easily exist without combustible material
>can even have fire produce concussive force like it's a rocket engine
>but having water be pressurized is waaaaay out of line

The water elemental goes into your body through the nearest orifice once it touches you. Your insides quickly fill with water and suddenly you are on the verge of bursting and dying.

Out of all the elementals, WATER is the one you have a problem with?
Water?
You sure it isn't the fucking Air elementals you should be bitching about?

In a setting with water wizards or the power to conjure water; how do you stop Wizards from watering crops or surviving easily in harsh deserts?

Can they only conjure a small amount of water per day, or does the water they summon not "count" as "real" water? Can they only summon ocean or swamp fetid water? Or do they condense the water in the air into their spells thus making things drier regardless of how much magic they use?

>how do you stop Wizards from watering crops or surviving easily in harsh deserts?
Why would you bother stopping that?

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I'd explain it by making it so all magically conjured objects vanish after 24 hours, regardless of where they are or how transformed they may have been
say you water your plants with conjured water, after the 24 hours are up all that water vanishes from inside the plants desiccating them thoroughly leaving them in even worse conditions than if you had simply not given them water to begin with

>I'd imagine an elemental might just smash you or drown you, but a water elemental attack?

You've never been knocked over by a wave and ground against the seafloor?

High pressure water. Take it from someone who lost a good-sized chunk of skin after stupidly sticking part of his arm in front of a power washer.

Why? I mean that's one of the few benefits of being a water elementalist.

because if you can have magical irrigation then you're going to have to design your entire societies around it causing them to stop resembling anything remotely like historical humans
better to figure out a reason as to why it doesn't work than deal with the fallout of it working

Sounds lame, famiglia. Magic should impact how your societies form and how they do things, otherwise it makes no sense. Iron age/medieval stasis is a dumb meme

High pressure steam, possibly with some sand, salt, gravel or whatever in it. Can cut if you keep it focused enough.

Big blast of water knocks you over, scrapes you against the floor, smashes you into walls, etc.

Water flows over you, covering your face or even actively flowing into your lungs. You drown.

The water in your body is drained out, you die of dehydration.

A bubble of water explodes, causing a concussive shockwave which transmits really well through things with roughly the same density as water, like human flesh.

Your blood stops flowing to your brain, or suddenly becomes diluted.

Water forms into ice, which is then hurled at you, smashing your body.

Extremely cold water causes your body to go into shock.

A blast of steam scalds you.

Well, if there aren't any caps on this sort of thing it's going to get real weird, real fast. Like, no more deserts weird. I'd suggest that maybe conjuration ultimately also pulls things from somewhere else and isn't the thermodynamics breaker it seems.

This is more or less the approach used in Ars Magica; unless you burn up vis (think something like Shadowrun's telesma, it's a limited magical resource gathered from the wild), conjurations are temporary.

People think of water as soft, but if you're dropped from a height into it, it's more like concrete that draws you into it. Think those kinds of serious surface tension injuries.

alright, have fun building your entire society up from prehistoric era to the one you want to set your campaign in every single time for every single magic system
But I'd like to have more than 1 game every 5 years

>Like, no more deserts weird.
There are other reasons to not live in the desert besides the lack of water. You need good soil to grow crops. Deserts are usually full of sand or arid soil. There's your cap for a problem that doesn't exist.

earth mages could conjure mud

don't let that other guy get you down, he's right that you should be consistent with your worlds and make sure the details make sense but working in cool stuff like a elemental wizards guild that goes back a few generations and provides water for the kingdom in times of drought doesn't require you to rethink things from the dawn of civilization

water can be pretty heavy man

also, liquid at high pressures/speed will fuck you up

Like you'll ever get a water mage and an earth mage to cooperate.

I guess you've never been swimming in the ocean and gotten wanged hard by a tidal wave.

you do need to come up with a sufficient reason as to why they can only do it in emergencies
maybe say have creating permanent magical objects be possible only by infusing your own life-force into it and creating sufficient water to get the continent through the drought was only possible through a ritual where virtually every water mage in the world gave their own lives for.

now i want to know how an air elemental would deal damage without using another object to bludgeon. for instance, lets say a wizard is casting fly. wouldnt any non-grappling attack just push the wizard away? how bad would the whiplash be?

you can use the object you want to damage as your bludgeon

Why are you arbitrarily excluding the possibility of it using other objects?

The most dangerous part of being near an explosion is not always the heat or the shrapnel, it's the blast itself. The high pressure air wave the bursts organs.

The element of air uses lightning to attack you dumbasses.

Something a lot of people don't get but when you (or it) is moving fast waster is HARD
Really REALLY fucking hard

Not all the time.
youtube.com/watch?v=GHiTDsFTFQQ

Water can be horrifying when it's moving. Getting hit by a moving column of water can break bones, and even an ankle-deep flow of water can take your feet out from under you if it's moving fast enough. Bodies that get stuck in floods or tsunamis often experience debris impacts, and being rolled across the ground by water will eventually abrade the body's extremities away like you've taken a belt sander to it.

tl;dr water will fuck you up, son.

>how do you stop Wizards from watering crops or surviving easily in harsh deserts?
Desert spirits and elementals - it's like asking what's stopping an earth elemental creating an island in the sea - technically nothing, except being in another elemental neighbourhood, surrounded by the element in question and probably both active and passive magic supporting the dominant element

This is actually pretty impressive.

I need an air cannon

This is a cool idea. I suppose FR did a little bit of this with the phaerimms, but your implementation sounds substantially better.

Guys how does a bowling ball hurt you when it hits you I don't get it

Our top scientists are still trying to figure this one out.

No, it does not.

draw the water outta you, simple

>because if you can have magical irrigation then you're going to have to design your entire societies around it
no you don't

technically, concussive grenades are just fast air

>user has never been to a proper beach
Try standing in waste high water where the waves are breaking and taking it to the chest. Shit hurts. A more concentrate and faster moving blast of water could easily cripple someone, and that’s before we get into stuff like water jets and cutting tools.

>Grappling
>Not dangerous

If the water spirit can make the water hold it's shape, it can just hit you really hard.

finally some sense

Yeah I don't get this post. The water mage does what the earth mage does: Beat the fucking shit out of you. Just fucking beat the shit out of you with water, it's heavy, they can move it really fast.

Plus, when your gambeson and clothes are soaked through you're gonna move slower.

youtube.com/watch?v=JsoE4F2Pb20

>now i want to know how an air elemental would deal damage without using another object to bludgeon
Force a surge of pressure down your mouth and explode your lungs

>hurrrr how does matter even interact with other matter
In water's case, pretty effectively.

Air elementals can perform a lot of feats without the need for objects in the area like:
Enveloping and crushing you w/pressure
Lashing out with high pressure "slashes" of wind
Collapsing your lungs by sucking out all the air in the vicinity/Sucking out all your air
Shockwaves and air cannon attacks from compressing and releasing air bubbles
Throwing the target with controlled gusts of wind

And probably a dozen other things that I lack the physics/medical knowledge to talk about.

*teleports behind you*
*fills your lungs with water*
"Heh"

Gee, user, I don't know. How would something heavy and dense coming at you at high speeds hurt you? I am TRULY fucking stumped here.

Water does not directly imply good Old pure H20.

If it's lake based- Drowning is your worst option, next to bludgeoning damage from the weight of the water/shocks from the water slapping you can possible precision cuts.

Salt water? Dehydration.

Bank/River water? Parasites and nasty water stuff,

Stagnant Water? Curses, Bog Liches, disease, Blighttown, the works.

Gravity and mass probably take a big part of water elementals, imagine if they closer you get to an elementals core, the denser the water pressure is, the biggest and strongest basically having Vaccuum Crushers/Mariana trenches in their chests or fists.

Also, there is a suggested encounter with a water elemental and choice fishes inside of it in 3.5 I.E Sharks, or just an Aboleth asshole that realized it could filtrate it's mucus in an entire water elemental to ensure that the things attacks thrall just about anyone that makes contact with it.

There's a reason that Water is the element of pure fucking strength in L5R. Waves break things. It's what they do.

You have never been to the ocean or near any moving body of water. You've never had a big wave wash over you, a current pull your feet from under you, even a small but fast stream with tame looking rapids humbling you in an instant you'll never forget as it's not the rocks you fear will break your bones and it's afterwards the rocks which you choose to remain standing on, because you know then that water, the source of all life on earth, can take away much more easily what it has given.

>user has never been dragged by the rip current
Shit sucks when water grabs you and bubbly whispers in your ear to stop struggling.

Ice and frost magic are usually related to water elementalism.

I'ma lay some mother fucking knowledge on you user from personal experience. One time i was down in Florida (of all fucking places) and i was down at the beach. I was young and dumb so i actually wentout trying to swim by myself and got taken by the currents. I tried holding my breath for as long as I could and then i couldn't take it anymore and my body gasped for air trying to get some kind of oxygen and then the water rushed to my lungs and stomach. It wasn't cold, it was fucking hot. the hottest feeling i ever felt to this day. shortly after i just remember blacking out and waking up on the beach coughing up so much damn water getting into my eyes and all over my uncles hands. Water, user, can be a very dangerous element.

I got caught in the rip current at Coco Beach and ended up about a quarter-mile up the beach by the time I finally got back to shore.

Ex-fucking-actly user. Water is very dangerous. We know more about space right now more than we do our own oceans and what inhabits them. It's why im dead scared to go out at sea. Games like Subnautica and shit scare the living piss out of me and i'll feel like i'll drown any second.

...

Also, why do you think people jump from the golden gate bridge? Because when they hit the water it's fucking hard and dense. It'll break your bones so if the impact doesn't kill you drowning will.

Seems like completely getting rid of the desert would be a lot of work. It would be cool if there were artificial waterways that acted as roads from settlement to settlement, though I'm not sure how long they'd last in the desert without constant maintainance. Maybe they could be underground? Hollowed out caves and underground rivers would be super cool.

>youtu.be/dIYvdAO02-w
What do you mean "finally"? Literally the first post was about waterjets.

Have you ever been hit by a tidal wave? Even if it's small, if it's moving fast enough that shit is like getting hit by a truck. Or have you never seen people get washed away by waves, or swept away by tides?

>Getting attacked by a living tornado
>Confused how it would hurt someone

I take it you've never been anywhere in the Midwest like Kansas during a heavy windstorm during the winter.

The wind actually causes cuts and abrasion burns when it blows hard enough, you can't see because your eyeballs keep drying out and have to constantly tear up to stay moist, all the heat and energy gets drained out of you so you end up barely having the strength to do much else than stand and shiver, and any object with a flat surface is either blown away or becomes and impedance.

Fighting against a wind user is to suffer a death by a thousand papercuts

>Get slapped by a water elemental with enough force to rip flesh off your body or shatter bones
>Get your head encased in a sphere of water and slowly drowned, unable to pull it off since it's fucking water
>Hit by a needle thin jet of water that slices you like you're a piece of ham at the deli
>Water forced into your orifices and drowned
>Wrapped in water and crushed by the pressure
>Water forced into your fucking pores
>Lungs filled with water just from breathing as the elemental fills the air with a ludicrous amount of water vapor in the atmosphere

If you've ever blasted yourself in the face with like a pressurized air hose gun, like at a workshop, you can also find out that if strong enough wind is blown into your face, you are incapable of breathing. So you can suffocate if a strong enough wind is blown into your face.

...

...

Observe
youtu.be/2Kj4ZLuVh64

The planes strive to achieve balance at all times. A wizard conjuring water on the material plane creates fire somewhere else.

Damn, I haven't read this since like the beginning of chapter 5, how is it now?

water is strong as fuck

youtu.be/BMe0QycHfv0

Running strong, her and a pink punching magical girl are a mini team now.

Also, fanart

I legit don't know how magic should work on a homebrew setting.

do it like D&D with planes isn't really of my liking. But anything else is just fucking weird. How do you do it lads?

I have thought of mages requiring a special gem to cast spells.
I have thought of it just being natural to people (but then I run into trouble when I get to conjuring water, fire, etc...where does it come from?)
I have thought of the D&D shit of carrying water and then manipulating it with you.
I have thought of having to cast an elemental sphere in battle from which the mage can draw elemental magic from

but nothing convinces me, I hate my autism, I should I have the planes route but I don't want to

Easy they throw you boiling water at your face.

>hurr heat damage

Conjure water right in a person's face. There's really few ways to debilitate someone as rapidly as a lungful of water. You're pretty much not doing anything until you've coughed that shit out and gasped for air for a while.

And that's of course assuming the water elemental is just trying to make a point. If they want to kill you, drowning you where you stand isn't much slower than fire can do it.

Why wouldn't it. Are you saying lightning should be in fire? Because that has always been retarded

I like the reclassification of "sonic" to "thunder" for 5e, it helps quell this misconception. Air does thunder or bludgeoning, with lightning damage being unrelated.

Ami became scary when she went crazy.

The pretty obvious answer to air/water hurting people, as people have already pointed out, is to just have it be dense, pressurized, and fast. Think about fire for a second, and how it's portrayed as a magic weapon. Rarely does anyone just lob a fistful of fire that lands on a person and catches them on fire so they can run around and burn to death, or just stop drop and roll and get right back up. They shoot a big exploding ball of solid fucking fire that will fuck people up. So apply that logic to water and air.

I mean, have you see Avatar: the Last Airbender?

Source?

That was a 4e thing (Along with Necrotic for Negative and Radiant for Positive). Honestly, all of them were really good changes.

In my RPG, all water based spells either deal blunt damage (water pressure impact) or irresistible/pure damage via drowning.

...

1. Ice spikes
2. Drowning
3. Crushing
4. Ice bludgeoning
5. Ice blades
6. Siphoning all your blood/fluids—Desiccating your body
7. Diluting your blood so you supphocate in air

Water is still a fucking physical object. It interacts with the world in the same way rocks do. Why the fuck do you think tsunamis are so dangerous? You get hit with several tons of water and tell me that didn't hurt.

Water blasted hard enough can take your skin off and blast a hole in you, but that’s most things too

There is a reason they use water cannons for crowd control you know. Shit hurts.