/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Tranny pires 'menstruating' is disgusting, but its far from the weirdest Cruac merit.

Cruac works for all sorts of stuff. Even Strigoi, for example, use it.

I don't really like vampire covenants much, other than Ordo Dracul and Camarilla, perhaps VII. Cruac is simply learned from strix (and so on and so forth). If a player has STRONG interest in a covenant, I'll use it, otherwise I like to keep covenants to a minimum; and if they have a cool idea for refluffing covenant benefits, go ahead.

Thanks, user!

My problem with a lot of the social institutions (Orders, Covenants, etc) among splats like vampires, mages and changelings is that in order for them to remotely exist at all, you need need a very large local population. Sometimes it seems that "real" humans are practically the minority in most major cities.

>We're all used to transgender vampires
Sasha Vykos was in lore for long time.

Yeah, but no one gave a shit about what the little faggot liked to be called by others. Whereas now you have Beckett using some pronouns that Vykos approves of and other characters comment on it as a positive change.

and so what ? vampires aren't supposed to represent the majority of the population, and with things like sanguine animism, there's arguably more chances that a vampire would end up non conforming to gender than a regular human
I really fail to see the problem about mentioning trans people in roleplaying games (and in general), as long as no one is forcing you to wear a dress and answer to "sissy" against your will

Naw. I think part of that is that most games take place in a metropolis, where the human mind cannot actually comprehend how many people are around them every day.

New York or Chicago having these large organizations means nothing when they can also have massive groups of otherwise tiny minorities (like the Amish).

Now if your GM is running a game in Clackamas and pretending they have a full Arrow squad running around, that is on them.

As I stated in the original comment, transgender vampires have been a staple in WW books since the 1990's, and doesn't even warrant a mention even by conservative fans.

They issue usually arises when the particular vampires entire existence appears to revolve around being transgender, so instead of a vampire with narrative depth than includes being transgender, with have token "transgender vampires" for no other reason than to include transgender vampires as mouthpiece for the author.

Then you have the male menstrual blood garbage. Biological male vampires do not menstruate (absent rare and unusual abilities to change sex).

Mages don't need to exist in significant quantities to have a major society; that's why proximi & sleepwalkers can join orders, especially once one factors in Temenos (I think?) communication, linked campuses, chantries, and everything else.

For vampires, I consider part of the charm that a Prince might really command like two childer plus ostensibly the coterie and that's it, and not only will the vampire PCs respect him, but probably other splats will as well. But there could really be any number of vamps in an area, especially if they have someone who is an unlimited vitae generator or some other ONE WEIRD TRICK.

Unlike werewolves and mages, I think vampires are too dickish to let ghouls hold covenant status, can anyone verify?

I know nothing of Changelings.

Demons could probably figure out a way to have a global society if they wanted similarly to mages, although the chances that demons will find each other is slim.

Ok, I'll admit to reading hastily and missing the point of your reply, and that my previous comment is null and void.
I didn't really notice those token trans vamps, but then again, I don't really read the fiction that they put out.
The menstrual blood, while gross, is still thematic with the original circle of the crone, what with the Dark Mother schtick, but could have been managed better. Either with male vampires jizzing blood, or (to keep the very matriarcal bend of the circle) having them just cut themselves in the groin to make a fake snatch from which to spurt unholy period blood (which, again, is fucking gross, but perfectly in keeping with the circle's practices)

According to the book, Demons create agencies, but like any real world spy group eventually a double spy infiltrates. Then it all falls apart.

So similar to Geist, Demons lack larger organizations because they tend to crumble.

on that subject, what are the antagonists of Geist, apart from plain old ghosts?

I haven't been paying attention to the blogs for 2e, but I heard something about Reapers this time around. Which will be much better than 'just more ghosts' like last time. Where the only things in the way of Sin-eaters we're other Sim-eaters that went crazy, and the death God's in the underworld who didn't care as long as you didn't go to their house and start kicking over their furniture.

>Sometimes it seems that "real" humans are practically the minority in most major cities.

This isn't a bad idea actually, esp for a single weird city. What are all the kinds of fake/pretender humans in the game? Covers/Simulacra/Urban Legends (from Demon), Dreamers (as in the Manchurian Candidate minor templates; human but under deep psychological conditioning), any other good ideas for "impostors?"

The male menstrual blood thing was discussed in depth, and was defended by OPP.

While the power could easily have been adapted to accommodate biologically male vampires, and most fans wouldn't have noticed, no less cared, it then supposedly might have mage transgender female fans sad. That's pandering pure and simple, and also really doesn't engender acceptance of transgender people in real life.

Just some small town in New Mexico where there are more Fetches and Ghouls than humans? Sounds hilarious.

A city with a majority of supernaturals reminds me of the cartoon Ugly Americans. Good times.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugly_Americans_(TV_series)

Yeah. Its actually easier for a demon to simply infiltrate any other organization than to maintain integrity of a demon organization, I think.

Don't demons have a power that let's them pretend to belong even counting ad a certain type of supernatural? Seems like it would work best on Vampires, where there aren't a lot of 'tests' to verify where you came from. Or for Changelings.

Wouldn't be as easy with werewolves or mages though.

>Ugly Americans
my nigger

Ah! Fetches, nice. Are they detailed at all in the Changeling 2e preview?

Demons can virtually pass off as humans to anyone and anything
That's exactly what they're best at

Yeah but I think they have a specific power to also pass as a creep.

Oh yeah. Werewolves and mages allow in humies if they have the chops as well.

A demon can simply retcon itself in as your little brother/sister (see: Faith from BtVS) as well, etc. like pic related.

A risky but entertaining power. I definitely want to try using it to trick angels sometime.

Nice, never figured out what that show was about

>True, but of a lot of the improvements are offset by ridiculous garbage like male vampires magical with magical menstrual blood in Requiem.
>Now that Rose is gone, maybe some of the gratuitous transgender stuff might be toned done to more realistic levels.

Theres weirder shit in realworld (vampire) myth)

I found it interesting/funny how it seemed most vampires were gay; or at least, most male vampires seemed to turn men and and have male herds, and HARD GAY fashion seemed very common... and never really got remarked on.

I'm not sure if it was intended that most vampires were gay, that they were simply prejudiced against women... or nobody really thought about it.

ER, in VtM that is.

Vamps only seemed to grow gender identities (even straight ones) in nwod

Do ghouls still have those 'families' like in 1e, where they would almost have their own bloodlines and would live independent of vampires?

Absolutely. I'm trying to figure out if there's a new system for it.

They keep referring to "ghouls with a uterus" instead of female ones, kek

Hunter. Niggers.

Can Ghouls become Vampires? How fundamentally human are they still?

Are there any actualy canon statements that nMages are individually the strongest guys around other than writers, developers and notes confirming it?

Do you mean one who specializes in hunting black people or one who is a black person (which involves homebrew since hunters can't be monsters)?

Ghouls are in the "sleepwalker" tier (in nwod, this means supernatural mortal, dudes with integrity). Yes they can become vampires, awaken (at least in nwod, which purges them of vitae; in owod ghouls may have some issues with mageness)

Well in the books there's a precedent for Hunters with some degree of supernatural ability. The Gifted merit in Witch Finders, for example.

No, its fairly self evident.

The 2e books that have sidebar splats also often convey this attitude.

No. But Dave's word is good enough. I mean, hell, Fate mages are a direct counter to Changelings. Wyrd 10 or no.

Fate ADEPTS user.How many people have fate at 4?

>How many people have fate at 4?

Considering about 20% of mages are Acanthus and many Legacies have Fate as ruling, more than enough mages to scare the crap out of changelings.

Also, it's not like Fate is the only Arcana that will ruin a changeling's day, it's simply the most directly proficient.

Quick. Let's compile all the splats Dave has personally said mages are superior to.

Vampires
Werewolves
Demons
Mummies
Changelings
Sin eaters
Prometheans
Hunters

That's all of them, Jim. I don't think we need to post anymore Dave posts now, don't you think? Otherwise people will think you're a fucking faggot.

How do you feel about the end of the (supernatural) world canon endings?
I know for mages it’s magic getting sucked away
Vampires are being forgiven by god and becoming human again and I’m unsure about the rest.
I heaved that WW stance is believe what you want so do you play the whole apocalypse as the end game or is it just a silly rumour and not a thing?
Personally I imagine it’s just a myth or that it’s a parallel universe thing.

Dave never said mages are above Demons and mummies. They're the big three.

Yes, Fate mages -- if they know enough and figure it out in time can annoy a changeling by canceling his powers. I'm not sure why this is something people orgasm about.

To put it into mage context, "hehehe I know Prime, I curb stomp u!" is retarded, so why would someone think being able to undo someone's powers is auto win?

I think in 2e they can do it at 3 dots.

It's pretty one sided, as Dave said, not that balance is an indicating factory within the bounds of CofD. Like others have complained about, and myself, a Master can easily Unmake even a BP 10 Methuselah without clause for defense.

>Dave never said mages are above Demons and mummies

Awareness is much weaker than Auspex and vampires have Awareness too

Arcane as a Mage Background is much weaker than Vampire's Arcane as a Merit; Mage's Arcane applies only to Stealth-related rolls and Perception or Investigation dice pools when they're trying to track you down. Vampire's Arcane applies to "any dice pools used to actively locate the vampire or recall her from memory", so technically even Arete rolls for Correspondence Effects are affected; neither Arcane will work for combat, Obfuscate will

As for Time 4, in M20, according to HDYDT, going back in time is an optional rule, other than that not only you cannot cast Effects reflexively, the Paradox stacks and you also get a +3 penalty to the normal difficulty of the Effect, so you're looking at difficulty 10 and need at least 5 successes to go back a single turn. You sure are not getting that without a lenghty extended ritual. The one power of Temporis 9 you mentioned (there are many) isn't *that good*, but in every edition Temporis has always been broken even at lower levels than that.

Temporis 8's Temporal Understanding for example, is one such broken power in V20 (Lore of the Bloodlines), it costs a point of Willpower to activate and gives you extra temporary Willpower equating to your successes on a Wits + Alertness roll; these last for the scene and you can spend as many of them in this pool for --any-- roll, bypassing the normal limit of one Willpower/turn.

The catch is that nothing prevents the vampire from using the power several times in the scene, nor from using the temporary Willpower gained from activating this power to further activate it again and again.

Spamming the power for a night = ~12000 automatic successes to any combination of rolls for no cost whatsoever, not even blood; if the vampire also knew Thaumaturgy then it's gg

Ah yes. Especially when you factor in stuff like Destroyers and Analysts Going Loud and Deceived activating full on Blessed is the God King, and the lesser, but still hilariously obnoxious and devastating tricks demons and mummies in general can perform.

Parking a tornado of fire on someone for a few hours and using Rebuke the Vizier to cancel any attempts at fire immunity strikes me as an answer to many problems, if unsubtle.

Meteor death curses are more funny though, I think

Did Dave even read Demon? He does know Cover is a defense against being found right? You mess with a Demon's cover, you better hope he doesn't find you. Because when he does, he is going loud.

Like all CofD games except Hunter, Dave was a substantial author for Demon. He probably knows the game better than most, including behind the scenes "writer's bible" information.

Dave has written extensively for Demon, yes. The only line he hasn't - Hunter.

That said, Mage has irked the fanbase with a lot of its abilities completely going against what can/cannot be done in other splats.

Oh boo hoo, muh demons aren't safe against wizards. now you know how changeling fags felt when mages can conjure perfected iron despite the book saying "no, you can't do that".

The fact that you idiots can even support mage supremacy disgusts me. Ascension/Awakening was a mistake.

There's no mage supremacy in oWOD

Practically everyone on reddit, rpg.net, opp and something awful disagrees with you. Revolting ass kissing.

BP 10 is way easier to come by than, say, Gnosis 10, so its not that unreasonable that a master mage nuke a vampire. Anything that has spent a master mage's effort on getting that far should most certainly be able to curb stomp foes in one go, not necessarily as well as the mage can of course.

Assuming one doesn't get """"""""""""""""creative"""""""""""""""" with unmaking (ie interpreting the already uber versatile arcana as being able to instant kill everything too) find it wonderfully thematic.

Wait, how does a mage's powers rip a demon's cover to bits?

Ok

>now you know how changeling fags felt when mages can conjure perfected iron despite the book saying "no, you can't do that".

Wait, how can mages do that if the book expressly says it can't be done? Is there some immunity: rules spell?

...

If he wrote for it, how could he say something that makes no sense like that? Ripping a demons cover up doesn't kill them or anything. All it would do is make their life difficult, and make them either abandon the cover (in which case the mage loses track of them) or hunts down the mage.

Few things in the CofD can withstand a mage's obsessive, magically-enhanced scrutiny.

Dave not only participated in Demon, but made an -insanely fucking amazing- Exploit for it, Decoy, which turns Spoofing from "will protect the demon from detection 80-99% of the time" to "100% of the time, oh and it makes you invincible, oh and it lets you break the action economy."

Savvily, its a rare exploit that can't be used when Going Loud so its one everyone should learn, but using Terrible Avatar with it, to split your demon into his human, demon, and disembodied unharmable mind/soul for 3 actions a round is REAL fuckin neato.

You really don't see the massive problems with demons losing their Covers? Alright.

So mages can't make cold iron but they can make Cold Iron+ that is like cold iron except they can also make it? This feels like a kid in a playground arguing he's got a special force field ignoring laser.

Mage-Demon crossover is heavily detailed in the Demon Storyteller's Guide.

Simply, Demons should avoid mages.

All they would need to do is keep investigating the demon. Honestly it doesn't require being a mage.

The hard part would be the mage finding out they should investigate the demon. Most low level mages won't even realize they aren't dealing with a human if the demon chooses to stay in cover.

But if the demon does screw up and the mage realizes something is funny, they are boned.

Mage supremacy is not a problem in nwod at all, not sure what the problem is.

Its very blatantly "vampires

>Few things in the CofD can withstand a mage's obsessive, magically-enhanced scrutiny.

Yeah but Demon has spoofing, which is actively supposed to stop supernatural scrutiny.

No, mages can create Siderite, which is perfected iron. One of the advantages of a perfected substance is that it can be used against those with a bane or similar weakness without conditions.

Listen, pal. don't you know? If Mage > Vampire (except maybe demon) in owod, they're certainly even stronger in nwod. Special snowflake rules will always be their thing.

ISN'T IT JUST WONDERFUL??? it makes you want to play urban shadows instead

(in all seriousness, WoD is a crap game for crap people.)

There are a lot of problems.
But it doesn't kill the mage.

Dave considers mages to be human, so a mage investigating the demon may inadvertently harm it.

This is of course the most ass backwards way imaginable to combat a demon, since it means you haven't figured out its a demon that you should be harassing in the first place, while the demon is very much aware and pissed off.

Woah there fellah, careful, Dave might see this and stamp "No longer affects mages in 2e" on it.

>pull pocket of space and time from the past
>kill grand grand grand-parents of the mage
before he is even born
>?????
>mage is never born
>profit

That's what I said. They get to bypass 'This can't be magically made' with 'I magically make a different substance that counts as the thing that can't be magically made'.

>Yeah but Demon has spoofing, which is actively supposed to stop supernatural scrutiny.

Not all scrutiny, particularly peripheral mage sight and most of Prime, which at the very least should cause a Clash of Wills.

That doesn't explain what he meant by powers

Unless being human gives you powers?

>he needs time 9

oh boy I guess i'll throw in forces 9 like a total fucking faggot and ruin another thread

Why Forces 9 when Matter can literally create the Anti Time Material.

Nopers, Spoofing specifically makes them *magically detect* as human, about 91% of the time. That is indeed its entire point. Likewise, they *magically detect* as telling the truth.

Scrying, scrutinizing, etc.

Sorry, Forces and Matter don't work in the Low Umbra, that's where the vampire is using his power at

>Dave didn't write for Hunter

Knew there was a reason I enjoy Hunter so much

>Matter 5
>create a custom material that negates all time
>can't use temporal viewing to figure out the drawbacks to successfully doing so
>universe ends after you finish the ritual

>b-b-but thaum ban tho
>nope prime

Predicting it

Didn't the magefags literally show a sentence saying Forces 9 kickstarted Oblivion?

>Nopers, Spoofing specifically makes them *magically detect* as human, about 91% of the time. That is indeed its entire point. Likewise, they *magically detect* as telling the truth.

Yeah but a mage using sight would cause clash of wills because they are conflicting. He'll only magically detect as human if he wins.

>Didn't the magefags literally show a sentence saying Forces 9 kickstarted Oblivion?

No. They showed a sentence saying that some guys think it could have.

It didn't "kickstart" Oblivion. But the fact that it even suggested such is notably amazing.

There is no conflict involved at all. 1 success = iron clad.