Why is there not a thread for warmahordes? Is the game dead?

>mk3 drops
>RAW you can't successfully charge knocked-down models
>official answer is that it's "working as intended"
>quietly hotfix it a week later

I still really like the game, but goddamn it was a shitshow.

It may not be doing so well nowadays, but it still gets more attention even here than a lot of other active wargames. It'll make a comeback if PP just learns to not be autistic again.
Because people who have never touched the game will spam posts about it being dead.

As has already been said, PP shat out a new edition so they could capitalize on the bad place GW was in at the time. Unfortunately, the new edition was initially a dumpster fire and GW managed to steady their own ship pretty well. What it ultimately comes down to is that Privateer Press went through a period of rapid growth in the past five years and didn't know how to work with it responsibly. Their ambitions got the better of them and they handled the ensuing trainwreck really badly. Things are alright now, but they've set themselves back quite a bit and caused a lot of local scenes to dissolve. The irony is that they probably need to bring back the Press Ganger system now.

Which warcaster, bruv?

I'm curious as well. I try to watch for Warmahordes threads to help newbies, but I miss plenty of such posts.

Hi, I just bought some stuff and am hoing to start Warmahordes.

I have like two questions;

1; the Minion Void Leech weapon attachment can be attached to any minion unit with amphibious.

Can they be attached to a boil master and spirit cauldron, as they are a minion unit, but only the boilmaster, not the cauldron, is amphibious?

2; in some thene forces, in this case Will work for food, you get free stuff for every 25 pts of warbeasts and lesser warlocks. Do warbeasts bought with WB points count to get you the free stuff. (I:e i have maelok and two blackhides, they codt 16 each, and maelok had 28 wb points. This means that they cost 4 pts, but do they still count as 32 pts of warbeasts for free stuff? )

I really liked warmahordes mark 1 and 2. But when mk3 came out, there was just something about it I didn't like. I can't put my finger on it but I started playing less and less. People in my shop started playing less and less. I traded my stuff for 40k dark eldar and I'm so glad I did when I did because warmahordes is flat out dead in my area.

1. No. In order for a unit to be considered to have such a rule, every model in the unit must have that rule. This prevents a lot of weird workarounds.

2. Yes, they count. WJ/WB points are "free", yes, but they're still considered part of your points costs.

I remember a few years ago some coworkers were trying to get me into WarmaHordes and I was on the verge of reluctantly going into Retribution of something or other (the Star Wars elves). Thankfully I happened to bring an Infinity model in one day (and it wasn't even a particularly good looking model, it was old Hellcat HMG with the stupidly large gun) I bought cheaply before work and the guys were so amazed they decided to get in on it too. Years later they have all sold off their WarmaHordes shit since the rules update while Infinity is consistently growing. And thus I avoided being stuck with some WH stuff I didn't want in on in the first place.

I'm still probably going to get that blue haired warcaster someday though, she was pretty much the only good looking WH model back then.

Warmahordes is doing fine, it just got memed to death on Veeky Forums.

Well, actually "working as intended" referred to bonuses like Gang and such. Which seems odd if goal was to make game more accessible by making rules more intuitive.

Then it was pointed out that this wording also makes you, you know... fail your charge after reaching your target if it was knocked down.

Then came the hotfix, which also affected Gang and similar rules.

I agree that PP handled the launch terribly, but I dislike hyperbole deep down to my heart.

And yeah, before anyone says it, I should uninstall internet.

40k 8th edition put it in its grave.

The only reason the game ever managed to live in the first place was because GW was being such absolute shitters. Now they're being slightly less shitters, just enough that no one cares about the temporary stand-in anymore.

Anyone wanna help me with my list? I'm pretty much the only Menoth player in my meta, everyone's pretty excited about it, and I don't wanna let them down.

Sevvy 1
- Hierophant
- Blessing of Vengeance
- Revelator
x2 Deliverer Arms Master
x2 Allegiant of the Order of the Fist
x2 Deliverer Skyhammers (max)
x2 Deliverer Sunburst Crew
Holy Zealots (min)

If I position correctly, a 5 man CRA from the deliverers will be hitting at rat 10, but the list also relies entirely too much on killing shit before it can get to me, and contesting zones would be very difficult. How do I improve the list?

WH was pretty dead even before that. It killed itself. It used to be the number 1 40k competitor here. And now? Barely anyone remember it exists and it's the Infinity fags that shit up threads.

Still salty the RPG is dead, but damn if I'm not a battered housewife

Is Company of Iron actually worth getting or has it been dropped like Shadow War: Armageddon for Warhamster? It's the only way I could see myself playing the game since I can buy in small enough quantities to work alongside my RPG stuff.

CoI itself doesn't seem too bad, it's an interesting small game version.

The problem is the lack of a campaign style play, which is what makes those games work. If it gets that, I feel like it'll do extra well.

Hm. I feel like Skyhammers and the Sunburst crew is just way too much ranged presence. You want at least one more melee unit. You also want the UA on the Zealots, to make them that much tougher to kill.

At a glance, I'd try something like this:

conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0O0T1Og93q3kgb3B2S2W2WjI2ijI2i

Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] The Faithful Masses

(Severius 1) Grand Scrutator Severius [+28]
- Blessing of Vengeance [13]
- Revelator [37]
- Hierophant [3]
Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3]
Deliverer Arms Master [3]
Wrack [1]
Deliverer Skyhammers (max) [13]
Deliverer Sunburst Crew [0(5)]
Deliverer Sunburst Crew [0(5)]
Holy Zealots (max) [12]
- Monolith Bearer [3]
Holy Zealots (max) [12]
- Monolith Bearer [3]

If you're not running themes you likely just lose out on the two sunbursts, but your unit options would be more varied. Perhaps a unit of Flameguard instead of the second Zealots?

I'd step back from the double Skyhammers, desu. Even with all the buffs Sevvy can drop on them, they're still gonna struggle to get work done. More to the point, anyone who can shut down your shooting - even if it's just for a single turn - is gonna absolutely mangle you. The Revelator is the only thing you've got that can function on the frontline, and it'll take just a single "get fucked" spell like Crippling Grasp to bring an end to that.

Without getting too specific. I'd highly recommend you get a) a Choir of Menoth and b) a melee/jamming unit such as Temple Flameguard.

I'm gonna get into it next month using the humble coupons, i only play with my gf anyway so i pretty much don't care if the scene is dead.

This was what sealed the deal for me and my friends. When the devs made stupid errors, not accepting the critique, and then silently smoothed over the problem. Time and time again it just showed us that they really didn't know what the fuck they where doing. Hell, I still have friends who are in shock of how bad their favorite brand handled this crisis. Just thinking about one of my mates who sat there with an initial purchase of everything form decks to hard cover rule books on day one! Knowing full well nothing in those books or cards was even playable after release due to errata's and apps, but still not willing to admit that Privateer Press did a bad job. Man, some of those hardcore fanboys will never return to miniature wargames ever I fear.

But as I stated, damaged the reputation for Privateer Press beyond repair, but as of now starting to look like an alright game again. Will be fun if I get some of the old crew back together, even if its just a handful.

Can't run flameguard in faithful masses tho :(

Faithful masses wants to anchor itself instead with the Paladins and the Zealots.

>Why is there not a thread for warmahordes?

It shows up every so often.

>Is the game dead?

Around my parts it is. When GW was at it's low point under Tom Kirby the amount of rage-quits gave Warmachine a healthy meta in my area. Nearly every club near me was hosting tournaments and even the 'casual' scene was seeing people buy tier lists and playing games consistently. It's not very big in the UK as it is though but it was noticeable.

Then a strange combination happened. First Sigmar dropped and it's initial rules took a few of Warmachine crowd who wanted to play fantasy skirmish games without having to invest in WHFB level of models. This was sort of expected though.

Then Mark 3 Hit and all the Cryx players left, and then the few press-gangers in the community got the boot so no one was trying to promote it. Then PP began calling the community morons and the games identity was just fucked.

Then 40k 8th Edition came and basically everyone left abandoned it. It annoys me cause I have a load of Menoth I want to build and paint but I've got zero motivation because my local clubs either play 40k or Sigmar.

The only thing that really survived for me was Iron Kingdoms RPG which I want to run a game for in the future.

Yeah, you'll definitely want to max out your Zealots and give them the Monolith Bearer Command Attachment. With that and Defender's Ward, they should be able to hold the line against most things for a little while.

Themes.
Half the fun of the game was playing and tweaking lists to find cool interactions between models that worked for your playstyle. Themes killed that.

I loved Old Witch list. At the start of Mk3 I had Behemoth, Doom Reavers, Winterguard Rifles, Greylords, Sylys and Eyriss and was testing stuff like field gun, the artillary captain etc because they all imteracted in a way I really enjoyed playing.

Then along comes themes and suddenly I'm playing 20pts down against everyone and they get extra rules into the bargin. Even worse, now themes are getting more models to fill out the (percieved) weaknesses of resticted list selections, so you can't even hide behind "well playing out of theme gives you more choice".

Basically, PP are killing any choices or creativity in their game. Sure it's more balanced but so is snakes and ladders, which is basically what WMH is turning into.

Caved in and bought derp turtles. Proxied them today in the Rasheth Winds theme and casually tabled my opponent.

It's not dead, it's still rather popular, but it's definitely dying about Veeky Forums- a lot of people are feeling really disenfranchised between mk3,the black anchor industries cutting out FLGS, etc.

So between that, the few people on Veeky Forums still talking about it mostly doing so to complain and the 40kid "ded game" arguments, nobody wants to try and keep a thread going when it was just one massive shitpost.

I've only played it a couple times but I quite enjoyed what I did play; it's very quick gameplay and cutting out the management of focus/fury can feel fairly liberating sometimes. It lets you play around with units you might not dabble in otherwise.

Mostly though it doesn't show any signs of getting dropped like SWA- PP adds a lot of consistent new scenarios and game variants in their magazine.

Scratch that, you can only pay with credit card.

It's on life support with bad outlook for improvement.

I've said this numerous times before in /wmh/ threads, but PP's approach to themes has been mystifying in MK3. Aside from a couple of models that needed rebalancing, the only outstanding problem with MK2 was that there were dozens upon dozens of theme lists each with multiple tiers, and the strength of a warnoun's available themes was as important a part of their arsenal as their spells or feat. It's not like this was a secret either, PP was clearly on the same page as their players.

So what do they do? They skim everything down to just a couple of theme lists and make them borderline mandatory to play via over-the-top benefits. Now instead of affecting individual casters and warlocks, entire FACTIONS can be gimped over whether or not they have decent themes - and trying to play models that don't share a theme is a huge handicap when your opponent is getting like three free warjacks from their theme list.

It's fucking infuriating. I actually play Llaelese Resistance about as often as I play Menoth now, since at least in Llael I can combine Zealots with Knights Exemplar and not be shooting myself in the foot.

Themes are a major attempt to cure model bloat, more or less.

They basically allow them to create models and units with specific rules and abilities without having to consider their effect on the entire faction, because 99% of their playtime will only occur in specific themes. This gives them more freedom in their design, because they can avoid so many possible implications.

Of course, they could have done a shitload better job of ensuring models fit into themes when Mk3 dropped, given that every faction has shit that simply doesn't have a home entirely on the fact that there's no theme to support them.

>This gives them more freedom in their design,

Yeah, given the latest MoW theme, I don't buy that either.
Remember that they made trencher longgunners instead of just putting long gunners in theme.

PP design is incredibly bankrupt in creativity right now.

Not him, but I am getting into this game and want to see what I should run for Thagrosh 1. I love the idea of being able to make everyone tanky and get as much Fury as I could want, but I am not sure what I should run with him and what I should do during his activation.

40K isn't even a competitive game though. If anything MK3 coincided with the popularity of Guild Ball and Malifaux.

Thagrosh1 is a great warlock for beginners (and just an all-around good warlock, full stop) so you're off to a solid start. I consider him good for beginners not only because he can be very forgiving in an otherwise finesse-dependent faction, but also because he can work pretty well with just about anything. Beasts and infantry alike really enjoy what he has to offer, so you can't go wrong in most cases.

What Thagrosh DOESN'T do is buff the speed or accuracy of his models, so you're definitely going to want a Seraph. This is fine because the Seraph is considered to be one of Legion's mainstay choices, so you'd want one anyways.

The other thing you'll want is a heavy brawler who can take advantage of the pseudo-ARM buff from Death Shroud. Either a Carnivean or Typhon are good choices - both are expensive, but that just means they're excellent targets for your feat. In smaller games, forcing your opponent to kill Typhon twice is absolutely backbreaking.

From there, you'll probably want some Fury maintenance in the form of a Forsaken. Shepherds can technically do it as well, but only if you take the full allotment of them. A Succubus is a good support model as well, since she enables you to upkeep Fog of War for free the entire game and can drop a cloud to block LoS to Thagrosh.

Beyond that, well, what catches your eye in Legion? Do you wanna run lots of beasts, or are you more interested in combined arms?

Is there any point in going to Lock n Load if I don't plan to play in any tournaments? I like the game, I like the models, I like collectibles, I like hanging out with likeminded people, and I like watching others play, but being involved in a tournament setting gives me a lot of social anxiety and I prefer to not do it.

A lot of WMH players played it because it was reasonably balanced, rather than because it was super competitive.

Myself and many of the guys at my FLGS started playing WMH because we were sick of the army of the month shit 40k was pushing, but the stagnation of WMH burned a lot of us out, and 8th Ed 40k was a breath of fresh air.

Guildball certainly didn't help though. A bunch of players did move to that too.

Those became popular after the fall of mkiii. Malifaux didn't really do anything new, people just flocked to it.

Early purchases of models.

I was more interested in lots of beasts. Those recommendations do sound like my thing, as I have all the models you mentioned already. I will probably keep a Seraph just to get my brawlers up the board, but I always feel like their shooting range is too short for general combat purposes.

Is there an open play or Who's the Boss happening?

>the stagnation of WMH burned a lot of us out, and 8th Ed 40k was a breath of fresh air.
Really? I'm the total opposite. I started WMH in Mk2 and played 40k in 7th edition, but I just can't stand 40k in 8th. It feels so clunky and imprecise. Individual model positioning and facing means fuck all, when models in a unit die your opponent gets to pick which ones, and only one model in a unit has to be in range of the shooting units for a whole lot more than just him to die.

I just can't stand it. I really do love WMH, I have no problems with Mk 3, my meta is still very strong with a lot of players who meet twice a week, I just don't see myself going back to 40k.

40k still has better fluff and cooler models though.

I would have to say the same. Warmahorde's gameplay will always be actually interesting while 40K's is more of an afterthought. If I was to quit entirely (I will concede that I did sell all of my Cryx when MK3 hit) I would probably go for something that actually requires thinking.

I think it was the burnout from serious, competitive wmh. I've been enjoying not giving a shit and just rolling dice and doing dumb things

>because 99% of their playtime will only occur in specific themes.

The fact that PP don't see this as an issue is mind blowing. New players won't want to play a game sold on its competitivness when they can't use the models they buy a majority of the time.

I actually have a lot of Khador stuff from Mk2. Basically one of everything, but I can barely meet any theme requierments without buying duplicates of their shitty, overpriced models. Whats worse is that if I DID buy them, I can only use them in the way that PP tells me to use them.

Well, in an ideal circumstance, your Seraph should be shooting at something to set it up for elimination later that same turn. The Seraph is principally a utility beast that you include for Slipstream and Flare, any actual damage it inflicts is usually an incidental bonus.

And you're in luck! Legion is, by and large, a beast spam faction. There are certainly builds that include infantry (especially after the most recent CID, which has revitalized Blighted Ogrun somewhat), but your best options are almost always gonna be warbeasts and dedicated support.

Some other good picks beyond what's already been mentioned:
>Scythean
An infantry blender that can also be easily repurposed to peel open heavies courtesy of Thagrosh's STR buff.
>Angelius
#1 hit-and-run cruise missile that can lay down the single hardest blow this side of a gargantuan. Perfectly embodies the glass cannon approach of Legion.
>Raek
Incredibly mobile bloodhound that excels at mauling enemy solos and tangling with other lights. Can even do short-term jamming thanks to its DEF stat.
>Naga Nightlurker
You're gonna want that animus, and Thagrosh gets to cast it for free. Another gun for scalpeling priority targets is never a bad thing either.
>Spell Martyr
Generally more useful against Hordes opponents rather than Warmachine, but this is your best method for applying offensive spellcasting without exposing your warlock.

here, and I can understand that. I certainly won't bitch at anyone who prefers 40k, to each their own and all that.
I guess my big problem is that in 40k, it feels like you have to exploit loopholes and whatnot in the rules to win.

For example, let's say you have a special character model on the table, and your opponent has a big gun line in front of him ready to start taking shots. So you take a huge unit of 30+ guys, put one single man of that unit in front of your special character, and hide the rest behind a big piece of terrain. Since the rules say that you can't target special characters if there is a closer model/unit, your opponent then has to target the guy you put in front of your character. They score 10 kills, so you take 10 guys out from behind the rock despite the fact that your opponent can't even see them, and the guy they were actually shooting at is fine, so they still can't shoot at your special character.

I guess I'm also a little sour because a lot of the 40k players in my local meta are super power gamers. A good friend of mine has an Imperial army with a mix of SoB, Guardsmen, and Marines with Rowboat, Celestine, and whatever other special character of the week there is. Out of 50+ games, he hasn't lost a single one. In one Konor game we played, I brought my army of 5 Chaos knights against him. He stole initiative and got first turn, and he killed 3 of them and crippled another before I got to do anything.
That's another beef I have with 40k rules. A good game should never have the opportunity to do that kind of damage before your opponent gets a chance to take any action at all.

I could go on, but 40k bashing is not what we're here for. I've just become very disenchanted with it.

>It killed itself. It used to be the number 1 40k competitor here
Even in seattle I think x-wing outnumbered warmachine which is saying something.

New players don't buy from competitiveness.

Mkiii is a failure for people like us who played the game before but aren't hardcore enough to compete.

New players don't mind buying 3 units of mow because that's what they like.

Hardcore players don't care and will buy sell whatever for the competitive edge.

Us who meandered and don't like GW game's spam element are the ones who dislike theme

Do you enjoy playing warmachine/hordes 24/7? Because iron arena is fun if you go with friends and sneak in alcohol. Its a time honored tradition.

Otherwise some of the painting classes or talks are pretty cool.

Isn't XWing pretty popular?
I remember reading somewhere that it was #2 after 40k a year or two ago

It still is the number 1 competitor to 40k and out sold WMH even during the peak of Mk2.

Yeah that's pretty much what I'd heard.

Although I don't know if it's really a direct competitor to 40k/WMH/etc.

Space/Naval games play pretty differently, and with prepainted miniatures it has a lot of appeal to the casual crowd

As far as being collectible miniature games, they are competitors.

You could make the argument that there isn't as much market overlap as one may presume, which is completely fair.

I think GW still has complete dominance (if not more now with 8th) of unassembled, unpainted miniature games.

That is the issue with me as well. You have a super competitive crowd, but a poorly balanced and designed game. I don't really see how 8th edition really helps anything beyond having new releases to go with it.

what kind of terrain are you playing with that you can hide 20+ dudes out of LOS.

Frankly I'll deal with stupid situations like this just because it gets rid of a million unintuitive rules required to make hero sniping possible but not something that instantly happens turn 1.

My biggest issue was that if there are multiple heroes, you had to target the nearest one, which was FAQ'd out thankfully.