Damage types organization

>Corrosive, Magnetic, Radioactive, Viral
>with the same exact combinations needed for a certain game, with many of the effects being the same

I play Warframe too, OP. That's pretty shameless.

How is ballistic not piercing?

I took heavy inspiration form Warframe elemental system because I think it's cool, but made some personal changes. Like said. For a videogame Blast makes sense, but in this case it would be simply Impact(Strike) and Burning.

Could you elaborate? Which ones are redundant?

I differentiate Slash and Chop because one scales of dexterity and the other form strength. Some attacks are just just with physical impact to them (such as wind blades) while others cut just by "pushing aside" as blunt as possible, like retarded big two handed swords.
Without this differentiation the system falls apart.
There are guns, and ballistic is for them. Arrows and bolts deal piercing damage.

The differentiation exists because bullets behave different from arrows and spears.

Chopping is Slash+Strike, not Slicing+Striking. Chopping causes bleeding, and cuts using impact.

I never meant to be a secret that this is heavily influenced by warframe. Everyone is influenced by something, I saw warframe elemental system, thought it was clever and simply adapted for my necessities. It makes more sense to me than fire + dark = ashes or something like this, because it focuses on way to cause damage.
All these elements are simply the way the damage is caused. That's why I removed Gas and Blast (from warframe), because those are simply Intoxication and Strike+Burn.

>Some attacks are just cuts with no physical impact to them (such as wind blades)*
fucked that up

Sorry for the sloppy writing, not on my computer atm and this keyboard is awful.

>blast isn't fine but RADIATION is

Ever think you're still too heavily influenced by it? And how the fuck is fire and shock "Holy" damage?

This feels all too entirely cumbersome to put into a p&p game. Excessive complexity isn't necessarily a good thing, especially not when you get little jimmy wondering why the fuck Toxic is different from Viral.

Radiation works in its own way so it keeps its own element.
>And how the fuck is fire and shock "Holy" damage?
here are my reasonings behind each

burning is aggressive and consumes other elements
freezing spreads and changes other elements to align with itself (temperature)
shocking is strong but hard do control
toxic does stuff by itself and deform things (negatively)
burning+shocking is energy+energy, so it becomes a "high level" of energy
corrosive is the consuming power of fire and the deforming of toxic
magnetic is hard to control like shock and aligns thing to itself lke freeze
viral does stuff by itself, but also spreads like freezing
radioactive is hard to control like shock, and also deform things like toxic

>why the fuck Toxic is different from Viral
Viral is alive. It includes virus and bacterial infections which toxic doesn't. Viral is also connected to Necromancy while Toxic isn't.

Also, Disintegrating leaves no trace, so it's best for completely destroying Viral and Radioactivity, which are considered "Dark", with no risk of comeback infection.
So it kinda works like a cleansing power, thus it's considered holy.

>Physical Damage
Too much. Just have Slashing, Piercing and Bludgeoning and just leave the description of the damage a blade or a saw causes for the fluff. Is ballistic different because of the possibility of ricochet? If so, just make a ammo property
>Elemental Damage
I'm actually ok with this for a science fantasy setting except for "Magnetic", what does it mean? Also, I'm not a big fan of the element mixing either

See, dude. Here's the biggest issue with the justifications you just gave.

>Freezing spreads and changes other alignments to align with itself (temperature)
Fire does that too.

>Shocking is strong but hard to control
Fire.

>Toxic does stuff by itself and deforms things
...Fire. Shocking too, technically.

>Magnetic is hard to control like shock and aligns thing to itself like freeze

Nigga what

>Viral doe stuff by itself, but also spreads like freezing

Also like fire. And toxic.

>radioactive is hard to control like shock, and also deform things like toxic

You mean like fire, corrosive or even viral?

I get it. You thought the idea was cool and brainstormed stuff. That's neat. But can you see how flawed that method of organization is? You can't just pick up Warframe stuff and retroactively explain their combinations, it doesn't really work that well.

You also haven't come up with a proper frame on where to implement this in a system, which is also a problem.

If you really want feedback, I'd go back to the thinking board, wean off of the warframe comparisons, try to put this jotted down in a proper system, and come back.

Those need to exist or my autism won't be satisfied. A sword doesn't cut the same way an axe does. It can, but ideally doesn't, specially light ones.
Like I said above, Slashing and Chopping benefit from different stats and work in different ways, being better in different weapons.
Ballistic exists for simplification. I was having problems comparing the pierce from bullets with the pierce from a rapier, and ballistic damage solved that completely.
Ripping damage is similar to Ballistic. It's easier than being a propriety of slash. Rip is not just saw blades, but also fangs and claws, which are common. They have completely different characteristics so it's easier when they are different types of damage. One example is both slash and chop easily damage clothing, but ripping is terrible because it tangles.

Also the elements don't combine and become another, it's simply their nature. If you shot fire and toxic you don't have corrosive out of nowhere. You have a toxic puddle on fire.

You're taking those meaning too literally. You're misunderstanding how this came to exist, even if does look like that, I didn't reverse engineer the explanation for their combinations. Maybe you're misremembering but the only combinations that are shared with Warframe is Viral and Magnetic, which are the two I added after being aware of Warframe and taking inspiration for it for organization and names, all the others are different. I had Radioactivity before that, it was simply called curse.

>You also haven't come up with a proper frame on where to implement this in a system
There is a frame. I simply isolated the damage part and posted only the simple elements. There's also complex elements which I didn't bother posting because they only make sense within context.

Thanks for answering. I'm glad you took your time to respond me, any opinion is nice and the feedback is much appreciated. I may be arguing back but I'm considering what is being posted.

>Maybe you're misremembering but the only combinations that are shared with Warframe is Viral and Magnetic

The base elements are also the same - as are their effects - however, that can easily be glossed over as anything will have "Fire, Shock, Cold.."

>There's also complex elements which I didn't bother posting because they only make sense within context.

Dare I ask which?

Lastly, when I talked about a frame, I meant implementing this on an existing system, unless you're intent on making this for a new system altogether.

The base elements were simply Fire, Ice, Lightning and Poison. I simply renamed them, I think those are basic enough anyone could come up with them.

>Dare I ask which?
Dragon, Purge, Doom, Cosmic and Chaos

>unless you're intent on making this for a new system altogether
It is from a system I made and slowly improved and adapted over the years which was very simply at first and grew more and more complex.

What would this be for? If it's a gimmick for a boardgame or card game, fine.

But if it's pen and paper, the issue I have is that it creates complexity but doesn't trade it for realism.

>Those need to exist or my autism won't be satisfied
Loose it up buddy. Are you even planning on making a game using this system?
>Basically gather a bunch of mystery related character archetypes
This could be it's own mechanic, create templates and properties(like weight, area of effect, reach etc) for weapons, this gives players freedom to homebrew their own balanced concepts
>Ballistic exists for simplification...
I don't see why this would be simpler than having a "reflective"(for a appropriate surface that is, also creating a property for armor) property for types of ammo
>Ripping damage is similar to Ballistic. It's easier than being a propriety of slash
Don't have it be a property of "Slash", have it as a possible property of weapons in the property table
>it's simply their nature. If you shot fire and toxic you don't have corrosive out of nowhere. You have a toxic puddle on fire.
It's seems pointless to have it tho, not only that, cold is as much "burning" as corrosive is

Oh hey, a thread about game design is actually getting replies.

You should probably cut out the combos as damage types and put the extra effects on weapons or skills.
I.e. a normal saber deals slashing damage, a mastercrafted saber adds extra 1d4 bleeding for two rounds. Or a precise strike move adds extra bleeding damage and you have a poison move that deals extra damage to enemies with an active bleed effect, fire mages can cauterize a wound to remove bleeding, etc.

You can probably boil this down to Slash, Crush, Pierce, Fire, Ice, Lightning, Holy and maybe Poison. The other effects can be expressed through abillity synergy.
Because otherwise... how the fuck is all of this supposed to work? Like, do I need to keep track of each type of damage and check every turn if the condition for an effect is met? Do I just roll the combo types against the lower defense of each type like old WoW?
You are confusing your players with having to keep track of too many options while instead you could have them experiment to get the best synergy out of their abillities. "I hit the troll with my crushing weapon" vs. "I use Bladestorm to put bleed on... 3 of the orcs. Now they can't make a save against the DoT of Jeremy's Poison Rain".

>Loose it up buddy. Are you even planning on making a game using this system?
I ran a few campaigns already. They appreciate my autism.
>This could be it's own mechanic, create templates and properties(like weight, area of effect, reach etc) for weapons, this gives players freedom to homebrew their own balanced concepts
Sorry, I don't get what you meant in this part. Could you rephrase it in some other way?
>I don't see why this would be simpler than having a "reflective"(for a appropriate surface that is, also creating a property for armor) property for types of ammo
It simply is. They are too different because I nerfed guns into the ground so they could be implemented, so what I'm doing is basically differentiating damage from weapons (normal) from guns (nerfed).
One example I can think on the top of my head is piercing damage is effective on a base of 1 against deformed beasts, while guns is 0.2, plus their natural hurt value which also is different (hurt is capacity of damaging max hp)
>Don't have it be a property of "Slash", have it as a possible property of weapons in the property table
It gets complicated with layered armor calculations. I'm aware that is not ideal, but at least now I have a 3x2 table of physical defenses I can just check and it's easy.

That sounds too complicated. I think my way works better. It used to be simply slash, strike, thrust, ice, lightning, fire, poison and attacks could be divine or cursed, it got too confusing and that's when I started separating them and creating the natures and elemental fusions, which I made all when I introduced a spellblade class that used those natures to manipulate skills.

Look on my table for reference. I don't have the complete one here at work and I think this one has some outdated values, like corrosive being hurt 2 instead of 1 because it was overpowered as fuck, but it should help clearing up anyway.

Nigga you need to spell check

And you need to read GURPS

OP here.

Would also like to add that I'd love to hear other people's solutions to introducing guns without breaking the whole system apart. I made ballistic damage that is way weaker but I'd like to hear alternatives as it is far from perfect and I've considered multiple times just removing guns.

How is reducing the elements more complicated? What I described was literally MMO combat 101 where you build a rotation of skills so that all their possible conditional effects are used to their fullest. The special moves type makes it arguable a bit "button-pushy", but it's better than melees only being "I attack with my weapon".

And looking at your table, the different damage type seem to behave much like those skills. So I have to wonder how do resistances work in your system? What is the difference between having 10 Slicing and 10 Chopping damage comming my way?

And again, how do I deal those combos? Do I track damage done and then apply the right debuff? If I cast a lightning strike with my fire-infused staff is the damage now holy?
Your system really looks like a weirdly named skill system instead of different damage types.

>How is reducing the elements more complicated? What I described was literally MMO combat 101 where you build a rotation of skills so that all their possible conditional effects are used to their fullest. The special moves type makes it arguable a bit "button-pushy", but it's better than melees only being "I attack with my weapon".
Because it makes them too similar and doesn't properly separate them into their proper categories. In your example Necromancy has no element thus no nature thus completely immune to nature related attacks. Also the whole dragon element system is based on overpowering elements with a stronger version of them, if I simplify those skills each will have to have lengthy descriptions of what they do instead of just being attributed to an damage type that has that nature inherently .

I don't get what you mean by skill rotation? This is not an MMO or game, sorry if I was confusing and didn't make that clear. This is from a p&p game.

>And again, how do I deal those combos? Do I track damage done and then apply the right debuff? If I cast a lightning strike with my fire-infused staff is the damage now holy?
You don't unless you are a spellsword. Spellswords do literally that, they combine a fire sword with a lightning sword and form a holy sword, but other classes are simply guided by its natures. It's related to which classes are allowed to learn which elements and the relationship of certain classes and in the way of targeting nature of attacks to cancel/counter them. Think of it more of a classification or filter, instead of a literal elemental fusion.

> In your example Necromancy has no element thus no nature thus completely immune to nature related attacks
Just... what? You really should explain how resistances work because it seems being tied into an element is really important for different classes. The most common way to deal with damage types in rpgs is that you some type of formula where damage and defense go in an HP lost come out. For fire damage you pick the fire defense value of the target, for ice the ice defense value.

Your system seems to be more like Pokemon I guess? Where strengths and weaknesses are tied to the elements you have? It's really hard to give feedback if we don't know how basic combat works.

>if I simplify those skills each will have to have lengthy descriptions of what they do instead of just being attributed to an damage type that has that nature inherently .
I'd argue that it's easier to have the effects in the skill description than in an external table, but if it's float your boat. Still, effects by skill have the big adventage that you can add unique effects for a single skill instead of having to add another element. You could do both of course, but that's kinda the worst of both worlds.

>I don't get what you mean by skill rotation?
Attack A adds a bleed effect, attack B deals extra damage to bleeding enemies, so I use A, then B. This is the basic combat loop you see in many rpgs, in WoW style MMOs it's just really obvious. If different effects can interact with each other your players will try to get the most effective combination done. A properly designed system makes this process into a fun puzzle where your enemies or party members throw a wrench into your plan so that now you have to make a new plan on the fly.

Oh bloody hell, continued.

> It's related to which classes are allowed to learn which elements and the relationship of certain classes and in the way of targeting nature of attacks to cancel/counter them.
Ok, so let's say I'm a sorcerer and have access to fire and frost. What's the difference between two fire spells? Is there potentially any reason I might want to invest more into one element over the other? If I only need to pick the element the enemy is weak to, then I think the system might me a bit boring for playing one character. Again, seems to be a bit like pokemon.

You armor values (and debuffs, buffs and cancels, etc) are all based on base elements which I call nature.
So how effective an elemental attack is on you is based on your nature (Burn, Cold, Shock and Toxic). For example if you take an Viral attack, you use your nature Cold and Toxic resistances to defend against it. Everything is based on those that's why Dragon resists everything but pure Toxic, because it has those natures and naturally overpower them with a stronger version:
Ex: Dragon Burn is stronger than normal Burn. Thus it overpowers it.

>You could do both of course, but that's kinda the worst of both worlds.
I do that. Skills have specific effects and their natural properties give them the effects that are just standard.

>Attack A adds a bleed effect, attack B deals extra damage to bleeding enemies, so I use A, then B.
There is no such thing. Skills are used in a different way. Characters have a set os skills and they can have up to 3 tiers, gimmick, strong and trump (loosely translated). They focus more on primary physical combat, use of items, terrain and circumstances and abilities are auxiliary, unless they aren't.

>Ok, so let's say I'm a sorcerer and have access to fire and frost. [...]
There are no sorcerers and you can't simply access fire and frost. The closes example would be you are from a class that has affinity to both Heat and Cold skills and have two powers completely different, one Burning damage and other Freezing damage.
The difference are various. Fire is effective against beasts, causes fear on animals, makes hard healing injuries and all fire related skills are much more offensive related. Meanwhile Ice stuff is more crowd control oriented stuff.

I understand a lot of the criticism your getting OP, I fear your system may be too complicated and could certainly be condensed while still keeping the "feeling' you want your damage system to have. However I think you have a great idea, I'm a sucker for flavorful combat. I've been writing my own science fantasy bastardization of the riddle of steel and came up with a similar way of categorizing damage type. Mine is more condensed as I really only have 3 types: Physical, Energy and Arcane. Each armor has 3 values for resisting each respective category
(power armor would have high energy and physical resistance, while shamanistic bones and woad would have high arcane and not much else).
The subcategories are usually just an additional status effect they deal
Ex. Blast is physical damage that can knock prone of the opponent doesn't pass an agility test
Radiation is energy damage that can cause semi permanent attribute reduction

Obviously some damage effects are better than others and therefore are more rare or do less straight damage. Here is what I have straight from my notes

Cont.
> Physical: The most ancient form of war. Attacks its targets body with kinetic energy, chemicals and biological warfare.
Piercing: laceration/bullets (bleeding)
Crushing: Blunt force/falling/vacuum (stunning)
Acid: corrosive substances (deteriorates targets weapons/armor)
Blast: explosive/rapid expansion (targets must pass a strength or dexterity save equal to the damage inflicted or be knocked 1d6 for each 5 points of damage and prone)
Poison: bacterial/viral/toxins (only affects organic, often additional effects)

> Energy: World's are forged and annihilated by the light of stars. Energy destroys its enemies with the extreme and unstable forces of the cosmos.
Nova: plasma/extreme heat (fatigues synthetic targets)
Hypothermic: extreme cold
Current: electricity/EMP: target must pass a constitution save equal to the damage or be stunned for 1 round if organic or confused for 1d3 rounds if synthetic (effects do not stack)
Radiation: cosmic radiation/fallout (deals permanent stat damage, physical for organic, mental for synthetic)

> Arcane: There are many great forces even our ancestors could not comprehend. The Arcane annihilates those that offend it, without regard for the laws of conventional physics.
Parasite: life/soul drain (ignores armor, doesn't affect synthetic)
Singularity: implosion/void
Force: Raw arcane energy made tangible
Psychic: mental attack/sanity: ignores armor, conscious organic targets must make a wisdom save equal to the amount of damage or make a roll on the sanity table.

Wow, this is really great. I specially like the way you categorized energy. It gives me a vibe of a more futuristic setting, may I ask what the setting is?

I understand my system got a bit bloated, it's less noticeable for me because it didn't happen from day to night, it was a slow process over the years. It's also confusing without context because in my setting there is magic as technology but not magic as sorcery, so you don't have people casting fireballs.

Why are you organizing damage types like this? What's the goal here? Genuine question, I want to know your thought process.

The picture was just to draw attention. I organize it on excel spreadsheets.

I tried translate some skills to english the best I could. Some meanings are lost, but I think it helps to get the general idea of how abilities work.

「 Sleipnir 」
Tier 2 skill
Instant/Cooldown: 3 turns after cast
Buffs the weapon with lightning bolts, doing damage on touch plus fortifying the weapon's damage itself.
Adds +25% of Shocking damage + 10 fixed Shocking damage. Sleipnir protects the weapon from Shock damage and those of the same nature.
On a critical hit, Shocking damage will stun the target, making it lose its turn.
It emits light and can be used to set things on fire. Lasts 2 turns.

「 Grand Stream 」
Tier 3 skill
Sustenance/Cooldown: 5 turns after effect is canceled
Blademaster skill - Usable with Daggers, Arming Swords, Curved Swords, Longswords, Greatswords, Curved Greatswords and Busterswords.
Sheathing the weapon, the user is capable of unleashing 3 slashes for each Tier it has of Dexterity+Agility, per turn. The slashes are not visible and considered instant, but the user cannot move while sustaining this skill.
This skill can be only used to cause Slicing damage, and the user's arm takes 1 damage per slash for each unit of weight the waepon. If the user takes over 20% of its max HP in damage from this skill, the arm will be torn apart after the skill is stopped.
Grand Stream can be used with Manslayer and Gentle Blade to ignore resistance to Slash nature.

「 Armor Tempering 」
Tier 2 skill
Passive
Character takes 50% less damage from Burning while wearing Heavy Armor (over 20 units).

「 Armor Tempering 」
Tier 3 skill
Passive
Character takes 50% less damage from Heat while wearing Heavy Armor (over 20 units).

For reference, the first is an example of a skill that treats Element for attack and Nature for defense.
The second is player created skill to exemplify customization.
The third/fourth is to exemplify resisting Element and resisting Nature.

I hope this makes more clear for how elements work and why I can't simplify it to fewer.

This is from my home brew for a campaign I'm writing. It's a science fantasy setting vaguely inspired off my fascination for the flavor and atmosphere of Destiny, but disappointment at how shallow the world building is. I wanted a game system that was a "gamey", tactical but not too crunchy too give a feeling of laser swords and sorcery dungeon crawling (pic related). I couldn't find anything that satisfied me so I made a lot of simplifications to the riddle of steel/song of swords type dice wagering combat systems.

The setting takes place in the few remaining stars nearing the heat death of the universe (entropy is basically a side effect of magic use). The various factions of mankind have fled in exodus to the refuge of the last bastions of light

This is the introduction I plan to give at session zero to give my players some flavorful exposition

It is said, in ancient eras, when our progenitors, bound by the gravities of their home world, gazed into the midnight sky, they saw an infinity… of starlight. The obsidian fabric of the cosmos draped above, speckled in a shimmering menagerie, populated by uncountable motes of light. Nebulas glistened over their curious minds’ each night, enticing them with wonder and mystery. The first pilgrims of the stars set out into the cosmos, ensorcelled by the same beauty that taunted their ancestors. But these magnificent ages have come to pass. The universe understood to be boundless was not immortal. The light of the heavens waned while as suns expired their ancient fuel. Our ancestors witnessed the stars wink into oblivion, until our shimmering sky became a feature less veil. We are prisoners of the infinite black curtain of space. The ancient sky was danced upon by the lords and ladies of the void. Now the brightest children of man must once again sculpt our seat in the court of the cosmos.

That sounds really elaborate and well written. I'm absolutely no writer, my setting is just a mean for adventures, some weird mix of FF8, Dorohedoro, Valkyria Chronicles and Berserk.