Palladium just admitted defeat and cancelled Wave 2 of Robotech Tactics...

Palladium just admitted defeat and cancelled Wave 2 of Robotech Tactics. They are losing the Robotech License and pissed away all the money. Kevvy will likely have to sell his keepsakes to keep the doors open.

kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/2120399

I am more surprised that Kevin admitted defeat more than anything else.

Other urls found in this thread:

courts.go.jp/app/files/hanrei_jp/014/012014_hanrei.pdf
archive.li/lFEwf
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

They're offering wave one stuff in exchange for wave 2 credit...but we have to pay the shipping. And I'm suuuuure that will be exact with no padding in it.

Rolled a critical failure on my common sense check when I backed this.

You can't be really blamed. I thought Palladium was the middleman as the Kickscammer was being ran by Ninja Division so I thought it was a good bet. It ended up being a total bait and switch.

This and a couple video games are why I abandoned Kickstarter. At least Poots gave us a full refund when he couldn't make the Lantern Festival expansion.

I hope the fucker chokes on NMIs dick

I thought NMI was the submissive cocksucker in the relationship?

Anyways, hope Palladium feels the pain but doesn't go out of business. I still want my Straya 2 worldbook!

>the game was 98% done, because in the minds of all of us here, it was 98% done. The rest was easy ... or so we thought. You take the 3D sculpts, do physical 3D prints, make the molds, run the plastic figures, dice and tokens, print the rule book, cards, and cartons, box it all up, shrinkwrap it, ship it to the USA, and we ship it to you and the stores. Easy, right?

Oh, Kevin. How long have you been in the games business, again? 40 years? This is just sad.

At least he didn't blame Ninja Division this time; usually it's always the other guy's fault, never Palladium's.

Siembieda's actually coming clean? Did hell just freeze over? Are we sure he didn't write this confession at gunpoint?

Why the west keeps fucking up Macross, jeez
>Macross Delta
On second thought, this franchise is cursed.

With Palladium losing the license the jig was up. There was nothing Unca Kev could do about it. I am surprised that he didn't try to blame the backers like he did when Carmen tried to an hero.

My guess is HG pulled the plug on their license.

>After the Kickstarter successfully funded, Palladium announced a Fall 2013 release and said that the game was 98% done, because in the minds of all of us here, it was 98% done. The rest was easy ... or so we thought. You take the 3D sculpts, do physical 3D prints, make the molds, run the plastic figures, dice and tokens, print the rule book, cards, and cartons, box it all up, shrinkwrap it, ship it to the USA, and we ship it to you and the stores. Easy, right?
Who thought that?
WHO?

Anyone that still pays for anything Siembieda touches is a fool

>Trusting Palladium games on anything

They're honestly better off doing this given how
1) Tatsunoko never had the right to license out the mech designs
2) Thus HG has no right to use/license the mech designs
3) And Palladium never had the right to use them

Japanese courts settled that shit 15 years ago.
courts.go.jp/app/files/hanrei_jp/014/012014_hanrei.pdf
イ 原告ビックウエスト
以上によれば,本件各図柄の著作権は原告らの共有に属すると認められる
The Japanese courts confirmed that Big West owned the designs (41 unique designs) used in Macross meaning that Tatsunoko never had the right to license them to anyone to begin with, and they had an English page listing the specific designs here
archive.li/lFEwf

The only reason they're still able to dick around with stuff they never had a right to use is because of
>Weisman agreed that he would not “contest, nor [would he] assist any other person or entity in contesting, Harmony Gold’s exclusive ownership worldwide, excluding Japan,” of the Robotech merchandising rights.

JUST

It's easy if you're using a proper manufacturer and not trying to pull a fast one on your backers by using a shitty third-rate chinese one that claims it can do it cheaper but fucks up everything and wastes all of your funds.

Oh no, if only there was some sort of warning he could have heeded.

You have to be retarded to do business with China as a small company. They'll handle you decently if you're a huge MNC because you're worth the money, but any dumbfucks looking to get things cheap are just going to get swindled out of everything. The government protects Chinese companies so good fucking luck ever trying to get anything back when they take all of your money and give you fuck-all to show.

I work in IT and this happens a LOT in the industry. Idiot companies will contract something to China because it's cheap and get either nothing or straight up garbage, and then come back crying to us, a place they turned down for being "too expensive", to clean up the mess. Sometimes they have the fucking gall to offer us LESS than our the offer because they used up their budget on the Chinese with the excuse that some of the work is already "done".

I'd been looking for this cap! Bless you, kind sailor.

Bear in mind that Palladium had pretty much never done a single release other than books. (Which is why I though Ninja Division would be handling it.)

Hell, the guys at Flying Frog had six or seven boardgames with (playing piece) miniatures before doing Shadows of Brimstone and they still ran into a truckload of problems due to inexperience with the miniatures side of production.

>THERE"S ONLY ONE 201 YOU BASTARDS
>luckily it really was some other 201, so we didn't lose all the money
This guy is retarded.

This really seems to be more of an issue of the Chinese manufacturers and not making backers pay shipping fucking them over.

Does it really?
Does this seem like something a sane, competent businesspeson would say, ever?
I mean, Kevin's defected blame for years and years for all sorts of reasons. This really seems no different. Any excuse except complete incompetence.

That sounds like complete incompetence to me

>the land of caveat emptor
How did communism produce the libertarian dream before capitalism?

It does. All that stuff boils down to "get the factories running and it's done". His saying it's 98% done at that point is an obvious overstatement but it IS at around a 70-80% point there.

It's not incompetence, it's just yet another case of retarded small western companies being stupid jews trying to save money by using suspicious shitty Chinese factories.

It seems like he doesn't know much about business, but he was essentially letting the other company handle it. I honestly don't see how this is Palladium's fault and not the Chinese manufacturers.

God has a keen instinct for irony

>All that stuff boils down to "get the factories running and it's done".
Nooooo, that's not how that works at all.

What does he have at the 98% point? 3D models. In, as it turns out, the wrong format (which he could have known ahead of time). And in the wrong layout for the mold technology (again...)

>It's not incompetence, it's just... incompetence
If you choose to save money by driving on bald tires and you crash into a tree, you're incompetent at operating a car. There's more than just driving involved. Trying to save money by cutting every corner on production (if that's even the case here, which it doesn't seem to be) is an incompetent business practice.

China is REALLY BIG on not thinking laws through and has at no point done much about corruption.

>It seems like he doesn't know much about business, but he was essentially letting the other company handle it.
Yes, it does seem that way... but you've got to bear in mind that he's doing the telling.

And this is not a man known for falling on his sword.

>(which he could have known ahead of time). And in the wrong layout for the mold technology (again...)
Chinese companies will do that. You ask them questions and they say yes that will work whatever you say boss it'll all be fine and won't tell you that everything's fucked over until you ask them why the product isn't done yet a week after it was supposed to be delivered.

Tell me more about them offering less

Oh for sure. This is why you budget for that and pry the info out of them by any means necessary. It's your job.

Don't do that, and you're fucked. And when you're left holding a pile of scrap aluminum instead of titanium, you've really got only yourself to blame. You made a poorly worded deal with the devil.

It's not just a Chinese thing. They've just turned it into an art.

I almost considered it, but they want you to send them your credit card information by email.
Like I'd trust that fuck with that.

Honestly, I think Kevin operated under the assumption he was dealing with people who think like white people. Big mistake in the international market.

Doesn't explain any of the multiple previous failures though.
Or the total lack of research.
Or the buck-passing blame assignment.

You know about assuming, right? Makes an ass of you and ming.

Seriously. What kind of jackwagon embarks on a quest to make a collectible minis game without figuring out some basic shit, like how much a good sculptor costs, what files you will need, how much a good tool and die maker will cost, and how injection moulding works?
Well, the answer is Kevin Siembieda, obviously. But still, an afternoon watching some goddamn YouTube videos could have prevented this whole mess.

China's been communist in name only for decades.

t. Chink steelworker

...

Yeah, lots of similarities between the communist manifesto and current day China. Lots. A considerable democracy deficiency, but that's not just communism, and, uhm... lots of red?

I for one am eagerly awaiting when the party boss gives up this whole charade, claims the mandate of heaven, and resurrects the Empire

What's the point of political leaders declaring an empire, when captains of industry wield more practical power?

>buying anything robotech
>Ever
>When you know the IP is stolen and in legal limbo
>And you buy it from Palladium

You all kinds of retarded senpai. You deserve your suffering for supporting Harmony Gold btw.

Cool hats

Who knows, we might end up with the Industrial Workers' Empire of China that welds together all the shittiness of pseudo-communism with libertarian "It's your fault for trusting me to do my job" shittery under a single royal family. Like Putin trying to have a New USSR without it actually being Soviet in any way.

they did just abolish his term limit

>This means we finally get a sexy BT tactical game on Steam this year.

Palladium has been a shitshow for so long, it's amazing fans trusted him with all that money.

Losing the license was the best thing that could happen for Robotech fans. Even if nothing happens with it, at least Kevin won't be fucking up the products.

>We know it is not what you expected, but we would like to offer you Wave One rewards in exchange for the unrealized Wave Two rewards – but you will have to pay for shipping. We estimate shipping to all 5,000+ backers around the world will cost $120,000-$160,000; and, at this point, Palladium Books just does not have the resources to cover that expense.

Holy fuck.

The backers are furious.

>Respectfully Kevin, no. No I do not want to pay yet more exorbitant shipping on product I could A) aqquire far more cheaply B) at the frankly criminal exchange you are offering and C) for a game that has only failed due to your own incompetence.

>So based on the numbers you posted you spent maybe 500,000 and it would take about another 500k to finish the project...yet the Kickstarter hit 1.4 million so what happened to the 900k not accounted for since you did not do wave two...where you using it to keep the company afloat...because if you did this in a timely manner 400k should of covered employees and facilities....you owe all 5000 plus backers a refund/or the wave two product. Not some buy out...of no longer valued product that we still have to pay shipping. If you want to offer old product the shipping should be payed by you.

Can you blame them?

Yes, they knowingly gave money to Siembieda

They made the kickstarter look like it was a Ninja Division product with Palladium as a middleman/licencor. That was the reason I backed it, had I known Palladium was actually running the show I wouldn't have touched it with the proverbial 10 foot pole.

You played with fire and got burnt. Shocker.

DO
NOT
TRUST
KEVIN

Is this finally the end of Uncle Kev and Palladium?

Of course it isn't, if there's one thing Kevin is good at is somehow keeping Palladium afloat despite all logic and reason. The guy is some kind of Alpha level reality warper when it comes to keeping Palladium running.

He just somehow got a bunch of rubes that give him money for nothing to keep the doors open. See "The Crisis of Treachery."

>backing PALLADIUM

are you fucking crazy

>He just somehow got a bunch of rubes that give him money for nothing to keep the doors open.
That's his Alpha level reality warping. By all logic and reason no one should be trusting anything Palladium touches, middleman or not. Kev has been proven time and again to be nothing but a fraud and no one in their right mind would do business with a fraud even indirectly. But Kev's reality warping powers kicked in and overrode the sense of hundreds of people and they somehow saw no fault in giving money to a project with Palladium's name associated with it. And even after this mess is over Palladium's doors will still be open, and people will still buy into his next Rifts project or book series or whatever, and will still throw money at him.
Why?
Because they literally cannot resist it, as his latent power warps reality around his business and forces them to be loyal customers, keeping it just successful enough to not declare bankruptcy and disappear forever.

>Losing the license was the best thing that could happen for Robotech fans.
I'm sure all 5 of you over at robotechx are having a grand celebration.

No one backed this scam out of a love of robotech, they either wanted cool Macross minis or easy access Battletech unseens.

>the game was 98% done, because in the minds of all of us here, it was 98% done. The rest was easy ... or so we thought. You take the 3D sculpts, do physical 3D prints, make the molds, run the plastic figures, dice and tokens, print the rule book, cards, and cartons, box it all up, shrinkwrap it, ship it to the USA, and we ship it to you and the stores. Easy, right?

It cannot be possible to be this dumb, can it? Surely? Don't tell me they literally hadn't even made the sculpts, let alone gotten into production and logistics, and thought they were honestly 98% done... right?

IT'S KEVIN.

Pinnacle's Savage Rifts kickstarter worked out fine. It was literally what Robotech Tactics appeared to be, a third party licensing IP from PB.

>easy access Battletech unseens

Bingo

Only that they wouldn't be allowed to produce them or sell them anymore stopped this from dragging on until they managed to scrape together enough to continue it, or the heat-death of the universe, whichever came first.

Palladium thought they were the middleman too.
Times I wish they were less passionate about things. The smart money would have been to abort waaay earlier when they realized Ninja Division left them holding the bag, which was about four months in.

That's what I was doing it for. Not Robotech, but Macross and Battletech. Between this, Shadow Chronicles, Academy and the comic, Robotech has become worse than a joke.

Dunno if I was crazy or just foolish. Truly sounded like something not even Palladium could screw up, that or I convinced myself that was the case.

...

US courts ruled otherwise, thus the nonsensical rights snarl that has been HG for decades.

Yeah, part of me wonders what kind of ride they took them for to upgrade their production line.

I saw that this morning, get hype

Here's where PB failed, they didn't read the contract closely enough. A fatal and stupid sin in business.

They literally believed ND was doing everything but approving designs when they went into it.

When they found out that wasn't the case, the then made the mistake of trying to carry through without a clue and the framework ND left them.

I can't shit on ND too hard, from a business standpoint they were under no obligation to point out the escape clause in their contract if they didn't want to stick around after funding. Feels like a dick move, but business is a sea of dick moves.

PB suffered the same thing they alway do, they are just a mom & pop run by former kids that liked to play games.
Which is why I'm glad they finally picked up a fan with a business management background, we'll see how that affects how things go from now on.

>I'm glad they picked up
>Mom and pop
>From now on
YOU ARE A FUCKING ABUSED HOUSE WIFE. STOP LETTING HIM BEAT YOU. HE DOESNT LOVE YOU HE'S JUST A FUCK

STOP GIVING PALLADIUM MONEY JESUS FUCKING CHRIST YOU FUCKING IDIOTS

Dude, I gave over $700 to the kickstarter, and I ain't even mad.
I spent more on their other in-house crowdfunding projects that went through just fine, because they were books, and they have a notion of how books work.
I'm pre-ordering Sovetski RIGHT NOW.

You realize you're an idiot, right? Surely nobody could be this cluelessly clueless?

Robotech has been worse than a joke for decades user

>Not Robotech, but Macross and Battletech.
Admirable sentiment, but while I have no beef with Palladium, anything that puts money in HG's pockets is a bad move in my books.

Also Macross has alienated me after Zero. It used to be pretty 50-50 about transforming jet robots and the power of music, but between Frontier and Delta, it's little more than an idol anime with some robots in the background.

The Dougram / front-mission / 8th MS Team style animu that focuses on destroids and their pilots will never happen.

Hey, I've got a large bookcase packed full of their books, a trunk of miniatures that is about to more than double in contents, and a stack of "Property of Chi-Town library" pencils that says I've been having a good return on my purchases.

>PB suffered the same thing they always do
It's called tremendous stupidity, user. Don't give money to brain donors.

>It used to be pretty 50-50 about transforming jet robots and the power of music, but between Frontier and Delta, it's little more than an idol anime with some robots in the background.
This is was Robotech will hold the warmer place in my heart, even if later Macross has had some amazing designs and fights.
I could picture HG looking at doing a destroid focused MS Team style run, if nothing else that that they certainly wouldn't overlap things Macross has done, and Robotech's tone has been a bit friendlier toward war.

Sorry, user, I like the system too much for that.

Now just kill CGL plz.

Jesus christ, Palladium is STILL a thing?

Its not the lateness of the product, it was the years of no useful information and refusal to admit anything was wrong.

Stacked on top was the whole GenCon vote fiasco . That was the last straw for a few people, me included.

>I like the system
I don't think I have a reaction image on this computer that's disdainful enough to post here.

I don't even know if such an image exists on the Internet.

Not for much longer if they keep this up.

>Thank you.
>Thank you for admitting you misused the funds we gave you in black and white so that we don't have to have our lawyers drag it out of you in court.
>Thank you for admitting to us all that you conducted a pyramid scheme and fell flat on your face.
>Thank you for giving us all the ammunition we need to demand our refunds (and get them, one way or another).
>Thank you for giving up the Robotech license, hopefully the next company that takes it up will do it more justice.
>Thank you for for lying to us for years, without your continued obfuscations, I doubt that your backer base would be this upset and have this many people willing to sue you just to make sure your company doesn't get away with cheating them and can never do something like this again to anyone else.
>So yes, thank you.
>In addition, I demand a cash refund for my missing items.

Why do people on kickstarter still think they're directly buying something, rather than investing in a project that may or may not succeed?

Kickstarter has to mention this in their T&Cs somewhere, right?

>pay someone millions to make or develop something
>uh, sorry, we couldn't deliver the items. thanks for the money though
this is not how anything works, even "investing in a project"

>no one has ever been burned on a kickstarter
kay

I will never understand that, the amount of salt in every kickstarter comments section leaves me at a loss for words.
Hell, it's a set worse than actual investing. You're just giving someone money, and if they can get it working, they'll give you a gift.

And under the Kickstarter terms back when this was run, it was more a maybe they'll give you something, maybe not, it's not actually a requirement.

I prefer that different elements have different rules.
I am the active enemy of streamlining and enjoy the old-school crunch and balance.

That it has setting material that I love is just icing.

You realize that, streamlining aside, the system outright can't be played as written, right? Like this isn't even about old conventions versus new. The system is just outright bad.

I only play RAW.
Though I'll admit that some of those being written down only occured in the Magic of Palladium newsletter that went out of print in the early 90s up until something like 2008. Mostly stuff that was common knowledge to the gaming culture of the time, like skill rolls and how they were supposed to work.

Have fun keeping up with the shadow edits I guess. I just played a session last night and I still hate it. Remember to get heroes of the coalition for those new prowl rules.

That's literally what investing in a business is.

Not at all. When the business fails it gets liquidated and you get whatever's left over back. You can also sue whoever you put in charge if he did some dodgy shit.

Are the models worth picking up? My FLGS has 2 boxes, so I wouldn't be supporting Palladium.

>Inventing reverse fan fiction about playing palladium games because someone dares like palladium games
kek

Sorry user, maybe one day you'll realize an 80s era ruleset is no excuse for garbage design.