The female BBEG has had a change of heart over the years and wants to come clean but the power vacuum and chaos she...

>BBEG

*cringe*

>*cringe*
baka

>I wonder why.
No you don't.

I think it would make for a cool cloak-and-dagger style game with lots of possible endings

Will the PCs:
>smuggle her out without anyone knowing and see her kingdom tears itself apart in the chaotic power struggle?
>have her hire the PCs and change the system form inside
>stage a coup and install a puppet regent the army trusts but can be a fall guy if reforms fail?
>replace her bodyguard with outside help, have her formally renounce her evil ways and mop up the inevitable coup attempt that will follow?
an so on and so on

The real question is how you plan on doing the reveal. Have the queen approach the party pretending to be her representative with an offer to help them bring down her organization, perhaps?

Male disposability and Women are Wonderful effect. It happens in real life too. It's why you always hear about women and children in the news, but never the men they left behind. Remember that #BringBackOurGirls shit that was so popular a few years ago? Why was nobody asking them to bring back the boys? Because the boys were fucking dead. Nobody cares. Women don't care half as much for men as men do for women, and other men care only a smidgen more.

A redeemed Balor would be baller as fuck though. Can you imagine a gigantic hunk of fire, muscles and pure, unbridled anger volunteering in a retirement home? Fucking playing Bingo with the old folks, joining forces with Granny Palmers in Bridge and listening to their stories of the good ol' days? Comforting Grampa Smith when he's crying about his late wife? "Don't be sad, old one. She's doing perfectly fine in the fiery pits of hell"
"Hell isn't THAT bad, it just gets a lot of bad rep"
"The place has really improved after we banned vaping in public"

>Male disposability and Women are Wonderful effect. It happens in real life too.
It's depressing desu

Isn't that basically the plot of Hero?

That one about "plot" and economics?

She dies.
>implying you could just betray the Emperor and humanity and have a change of heart, and then try to get away with it.

I'd be more sympathetic if it were a king, desu. Women don't work like that in real life.

The plot is Kung Fu and that the Emperor is the good guy, and you should basically kill yourself.

The one where the guy tried to kill the Emperor and then backs out after he figures out that even if this guy is the bad guy, it's better for him to rule everything and there to be peace than for other people to keep fighting over who gets to be the emperor?

>Women don't work like that in real life.
The people who drool over the redeemed succubus meme don't know much about women or real life.

Yes, that one. Pretty metal way to die though.

youtube.com/watch?v=DBDuvCYplu0

Why?

>*cringe*
cringe

I know, and it makes me detest women for willingly ignoring it in favor of fictional problems like the wage gap.

Which are you, a woman or a nu-male? Women whine about being objectified all the time, yet you can't see why it's depressing to be seen as equally disposable as a used tissue?

>Would this be a cop-out thing to do?

Yes. Lady bailed and so can you. Also stop sucking your villain's dick, it's horrible DM behavior.

>not sorry enough.
Irrelevant. Redemption is not needed to lead a decent live from then on.
See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulla

>Someone far more virtuous than she is can take over.
No way, fag. You know how these things go. Somebody virtuous will not get into power. Staying in power might be the best the Queen can do to stop a massive civil war.

Okay but what if it was a cute male prince

Universal rules for dealing with girls are as follows
>is she hot?
If yes, she can be forgiven, if not, no.

>"The place has really improved after we banned vaping in public"
Okay, you fucker, you got a chuckle out of me.
I was definitely thinking of including a redemption arc on one of the devils in my game, probably involving the one thing he still cares about- his family, some of which is mortal. Pull a self-sacrificing move that doesn't even begin to fix everything he's done, but pulls him just enough away from true evil that he can begin to make the journey away from the dark side.

>Redemption is not needed to lead a decent live
Iz u srs nibba? You can't really "oops, sorry!" your way out of being a BBEG. Forgiveness is preceded by penance.
>Sulla
You meant the nigga who repaid all kindness tenfold and all malice tenfold? The bad motherfucker who walked the streets of Rome unguarded because nobody messed with the baddest motherfucker in town?
>Somebody virtuous will not get into power.
Do you even paladin?

"Male disposability" is based in the idea that men are simply capable of handling danger on their own. The reason you always here about "women and children" is because women and children are often seen as defenseless and in most cases completely innocent and blameless of the peril they find themselves in. It is the unspoken social role of a man to protect woman and children from such peril, and so we are seen as disposable in this regards, that we must be willing to give our lives to protect those who are unable to protect themselves. Men are expected to put themselves into danger or make daring sacrifices, as a proof of worth. That we must do what it takes when the time comes, to protect our loved ones, to 'have the balls' to face death. This is why people get so naturally outraged when they here about men who beat up women.
Of course the idea that woman needs a protector to keep them safe is no longer considered appropriate, but I guarantee the idea that men are supposed to be gentlemen and sacrifice themselves for woman, will never go away.

Yeah, except the thing is that historically authority came with the duty to defend. Historical societies like the Roman Republic were literally patriarchal in the sense that the ruler of the country and the father of a family were seen as analagous. This in a way 'justifies' the biological reality of male disposability, as it attaches respect and power to the duty of being the guardian of both the family and society. The problem is that whenever women clamor for 'equality', they seek to dismantle the authority without dismantling the duties attached to it. This is why I've grown to detest women. They do not want to make the authoritarian guardian into a partner, but into a lowly slave who can be beaten to death at will.

Giving women the vote was a mistake.

to be honest a redeemed balor would if nothing else visually look super fucking cool. How would it even happen though?

Helm of opposite alignment

>How would it even happen though?
The exact same fucking way a succ would get redeemed, except without sticking your dick inside it.

Sort of the plot of Thor Ragnarok. Turns out old man Odin was a warmongering cock in his youth. In old age he gave up his evil ways and become a benevolent ruler.

But a succubus interarcts with mortals all the time, corrupting them, it's not so hard to imagine some rare 0,00001% social interaction over time that triggers some odd emotions that lead to a different path. But balor are just warlords of destruction, they are not very likely to get out of their comfort zone. Or?

>Balor wants to know why mortals continue to oppose him
>What could they be fighting for? What drives them to such extremes?
>He takes mortal form
>Over the course of one thousand years, he finds out

That argument actually works against you, mate. A succ has heard it all and plays along with it for the sake of corrupting idiots who think with their dicks. A balor hasn't.

Most "redeemed" succubi are actually just runaways who've figured out how to keep their heads down and avoid being actively antisocial.

That could definitely work.

>As I pondered the paladin at my feet, I wondered what drove him to fight.
>It was funny. I couldn't give an answer for him... Or for myself.

I could also see it as a bit of curiosity built up after a few millenia, if "good" is so weak, how come these measly weak [insert non evil faction] keep winning against evil

What the fuck, have you guys SEEN the absurd amount of fanfiction teenage girls (and grown women) write about redeeming "misunderstood" male villains? There's a whole genre of this stuff outside mainstream media.

The reason we see women villains getting redeemed more often isn't because of a secret current of muh misandry, it's because mainstream movies/books are written by men and men have the opposite fantasy of dicking the succubus into joining the side of good.

tl;dr It's not that deep.

The woman knows it's an option for her the guy knows that it is not that's why. If you are a guy you know that you are going to be killed if you try to through you're self on the mercy of others in that situation. If you want to see it happen more often people will have to start valuing guys life's more then they do. You can say that they do but they don't really, it's why you almost never see a female mook and if you do she NEVER gets foraged unless the author/dm is trying to make a point.

A DM of mine has a redeemed, or possibly redeemed, Balor show up as a recurring character in his games. He's this hermit who lives on the dark edge of the Hells, obsessively collecting and studying manuscripts and such, possibly trying to make one of his own.

Basically he's trying to pin down what good is so he can do that. It's implied that he's technically already good, but he's so obsessed with figuring it all out that he'll never come to that realization. He'll spend eternity out in the wastes, mostly alone, never plucking up the courage to finish his own tome or understand that it's not about a precise algorithm, it's just about something you feel and act on.

I like him, he's cool. Whenever we see him it means the campaign is near its end and we're going to get a piece of cool gear our last PCs left with him.

I want a redeemed balor now

>have you guys SEEN the absurd amount of fanfiction teenage girls (and grown women) write about redeeming "misunderstood" male villains?
Except they're never redeemed, because the moment they're redeemed they're boring. I know the man has reached meme status on the interwebs but Jordan Peterson actually had a pretty interesting analysis about it. It's not about redeeming, it's about taming. Woman envies the strength and utility of men and seeks to subjugate it without disarming it. This is why mass murderers get love letters: a literal psychopath is the ideal man for most women.

Men, on the other hand, can't even see the worst thot for what she truly is. They always try to see the innocent little creatures they want women to be, even if it means being delusional to the point of self-harm. Honestly, ye olde patriarchy where the husband dominated the wife without ever truly loving her is probably the best for both parties.

Redemption doesn't have to mean becoming LG right? For a balor/CE demon just neutral would perhaps qualify, or would it have to be NG at the least?

Dunno but that sounds awesome as fuck. Besides I see risen demon threads quite frequently on Veeky Forums.

>Honestly, ye olde patriarchy where the husband dominated the wife without ever truly loving her is probably the best for both parties.

How convenient that the party that benefits the most from an unfair setup calls it beneficial for both.

Just as expected from a retard who buys into JP's pseudoscience lifecoach bullshit.

>user still takes Jordan Peterson seriously

>the party that benefits the most
I don't know mate, I'd say the party that gets taken care of and doesn't have to die when push comes to shove has a pretty sweet deal. Shit has to get really messed up before men benefit more from marriage than women do.

>Just as expected from a retard who buys into JP's pseudoscience lifecoach bullshit.
Except I don't, I just thought his analysis of common male archetype in trashy chicklit was interesting.

>Look, guys, I'm gonna level with you
>I'm in deep and I don't know how to stop this crazy train
>I could totally bail but things'll all go pear-shaped if I do

I'd say the Queen takes the PCs on as sort of paid assassins, executing a concerted effort to rid herself of her powerbase and subordinates, along with some convenient scapegoating and secretly fostering a rebellious movement against her that will deflate her empire before it can tear itself apart.

Basically, political intrigue into a "controlled demolition" of empire. A dash of Isaac Asimov's Foundation if you're familiar with that.

>I don't know mate, I'd say the party that gets taken care of and doesn't have to die when push comes to shove has a pretty sweet deal. Shit has to get really messed up before men benefit more from marriage than women do.

The party that dies giving birth or from shit post-natal care or that dies during sieges when cut off from decent water or food or that dies during bombardments and gets passed around while the dead husband gets cucked by the winners?

>The female body being inherently weak and inefficient is sexism
>Only women die from starvation during sieges
>The only thing worse than dying and being cucked is surviving and marrying the winners

Not him but
>dies giving birth or from shit post-natal care
Nothing to do with patriarchy or social structures
>dies during sieges when cut off from decent water or food or that dies during bombardments
Everyone dies from those
>gets passed around while the dead husband gets cucked by the winners
Objectively "better" than being the dead dude

how the fuck are you posting to Veeky Forums from the literal 14th century

>Objectively "better" than being the dead dude

Consider it's socially acceptable in some parts of the world to burn a raped woman alive for the crime of being raped, I think the point is a bit moot on that.

Also didn't the Balkan Wars have giant rape camps lol

Very true. But acting like females just sat around getting fanned by handsome male servants who all suspiciously resemble Fulgrim is pretty historically inaccurate.

Also you got more booty if wife 1 failed to give you a son or died in the attempt. So you get younger and hotter wives the older you get if you play your cards right.

Honestly, I think the most genuine way you could do this is to simply show how time has eroded her down. She is tired and weary. The gems have lost their luster, and the beheadings have lost their spunk. The cries of burning orphans no longer excite her, and the wails from the torture chamber are simply annoying, like the barking of a distant dog. She just doesn't want to *do* this anymore. She looks for a simpler time when life didn't hand her a bag of her enemys' blood every evening, because she has to clean it up after claiming it. Maybe she will start an onion garden or something similar. That would be nice.

To do this, she would have to be older though, old enough to be weary of her position. I don't know if that is a problem for you or not.

>not dying is worse
I've never gotting this. Like that time hildog said that the people who loose the most in war are the mothers of dead soldiers and not the poor dead fuckers themselves.

lol no they just raped and killed captured females why would they want to reproduce with losers?

On one hand, you're responding to a literal JP fan.

On the other, you're somehow fucking worse.

Holy shit intended for this galaxy brain here:

But honestly fuck you too.

ONLY THE DEAD KNOW PEACE.

Depending on your belief system, you might think your dead son went to heaven and yet that still means you'll never see them again. That emptiness in your existence will always be there.

If you're an atheist I suppose the argument is that the dead don't care about being dead. So those who suffer the most are still the living because they have the capacity to suffer.

Funerals are ultimately for the benefit of the living, not the dead.

>being raped and killed is worst than being killed
Duh, no shit fag. Still being killed is worst than being just raped. And it's not like most men got painless deaths in armed conflicts, there was plenty of agony for them. And they were raped all the time too.
Those young wifes also get a better deal since they receive a better protector and more security than with some young poor fag who may or may not be hot

>Those young wifes also get a better deal since they receive a better protector and more security than with some young poor fag who may or may not be hot

Until they fail to pop out a son. Then they get beheaded.

It's dishonest people bastardizing the common coping mechanics of "he's resting now" or "he's in a better place". If those supposed biggest victims were worst than dead they would've killed themselves if given the opportunity, like people who fears fates worst than death actually do.

It makes shit bad for women because it leads to them being infantilized or having adult issues ignored, and it makes shit bad for men because it helps define suicidal and violent behaviour as masculine virtues.

>If those supposed biggest victims were worst than dead they would've killed themselves if given the opportunity, like people who fears fates worst than death actually do.
Yeah, exactly. That's why I keep asking why rape victims don't just bite their tongues and bleed to death.

You don't need penance for forgiveness and you don't need forgiveness to carry on a decent life unless there is someone powerful enough to demand either of you.

Well yeah. They do that plenty user, you'll read plenty of stories of women killing themselves rather than be raped by an advancing army (look at what happened in Berlin, where they found the bodies of civilians who killed themselves everywhere). So do soldiers who survive wars.

>You don't need penance for forgiveness
>you don't need forgiveness to carry on a decent life
>you don't need forgiveness to carry on a decent life

>you'll read plenty of stories of women killing themselves rather than be raped by an advancing army
You'll read those stories because they're the exception and not the rule. Nobody writes about the men who were beaten to death because that's the fucking rule. Nor about the women who fucked their victors because again, the fucking rule. Where are all the dramatic accounts of Japanese women sucking Navy SEAL cock after WW2? They aren't there. Because that's as self-evident as "water is wet'.

Not really in most societies? If anything they should behead the father or whoever was responsible. And most probably there would be no beheading or any violence as long as the fucker father doesn't flee from his obligation of repaying what he got for giving the daughter.

dude there's like several news articles in my city about innocent men beaten/shot/stabbed to death, what are you on about?

>no counterargument
>no counterargument
>no counterargument
That's all right; I don't expect any from someone who types like a nigger and posts with images saved from knowyourmeme.

>dude's never heard of the Tudor Dynasty
>dude has never read a history book about European power struggles.
>lol

Is your city currently involved in a literal war?
You know what? Let's run with that non-sequitur of yours. Do you honestly believe the murder of a woman doesn't become national news earlier than the murder of a man? Of course not, because who gives a fuck if a man dies?

Just because some mad fatso who was hated by everyone in Europe used to kill his wifes doesn't mean it was the rule, the law or the custom anywhere. Tyrants will be tyrants.

I'm sorry that the faggot also happens to be the founder of angloland's meme church because he was so despicable that reconciliation with a religion that wasn't ruled by him seemed impossible.

>Male disposability and Women are Wonderful effect. It happens in real life too. It's why you always hear about women and children in the news, but never the men they left behind.

This is retarded. Every culture and civilization has considered men more valuable than women. Women aren't more important, we just treat them more gently because we consider them incompetent half-children(we're right)

Women die all the time, user. It doesn't make the news. Do you care that Bahiyya got her throat slit? No? Okay then.

>Where are all the dramatic accounts of Japanese women sucking Navy SEAL cock after WW2? They aren't there.
They aren't there because it literally never happened.

if men were so valuable why do women force them into war and make them have to control the government user? why didn't any women help write the Declaration of Independence and instead made men write it?

Abdul al-Bumfuckestan getting his throat slit doesn't make Western news either, retard.

>Every culture and civilization has considered men more valuable than women
Which is why they send women to die in times of war, right? As much as I hate to paraphrase Lindybeige: if the most valuable things around are vases, you don't fight wars by throwing vases at eachother.

BREAKING NEWS: Humans are mortal

>t literally never happened.
bbc.com/news/magazine-33857059
It's basic human fucking instinct, man. Ever since the days of ye olde tribes men knew that if their tribe was beaten they were dead meat. Women knew they'd be safe as long as they spread their legs. This is why 40% of men who have ever lived reproduced as opposed to 80% of women. This is why women can easily fuck the men who tortured and killed their husbands just a week ago, because feeling resentful over this is the worst evolutionary strategy possible for women. Better to just fuck whoever seems the most likely winner at the time. And this is also why women are far more supportive of replacement migration. Who happens what way the demographics shift? It'l just end up like Haiti: all white men are killed, all white women are passed around like trophies. And bitches love nothing more than being trophy wives to the rich and powerful. Because that's their fucking evolutionary drive: women survive by glueing their lips to the dicks of whoever is the biggest, thoughest guy at the moment.

Literally 0 of those women fucked a SEAL, retard. SEALs didn't exist until 1962.

Guess you got me there. Not an 'murican so what do I know

Let the PCs go full French revolution on her and the other powerful nobles.

Create an actual functioning republic afterwards, unlike the French.

I too hate women
These threads will never stop being hilarious

You'd think all those traditionalist muslims over there in the middle east would be getting more converts if the deal was really that grand.

>a picture of a woman
>Veeky Forums literally falls apart

I feel like I should be disappointed, but this is the fate nu-Veeky Forums chose.

>There is no fiction where men are redeemed
>What about X?
>But it's not actually redeeming
Okay, but why is that? Why is dicking the succubus into redemption not redemption while riding the werewolf with the same goal in mind isn't?

>Women don't like redeemed men, they're boring
Shit dude, the amount of works where a Kylo Ren type lives a normal life as a barista and doesn't do anything terrible is fucking ASTOUNDING. In my experience that directly contradicts what you're saying.

>"I'm going to make the haunted-looking bad guy a functional member of society" is taming
>"I'm going to make the remorseful evil sorceress a functional member of society" is not taming
I'm not convinced.
Using fiction as an indicator of one sex's desire to "tame" the other is pretty stupid IMO. Human beings don't work like that. Hell, the vast majority of "domination fantasy" porn, subtle or not, is men writing about men dominating women. It doesn't really add up anyway. Unless you'd argue porn is totally different?

Hey, sometimes it sparks interesting conversations.

I'd say turning to an existence of good deeds is redemption, whereas retiring to a quiet life in the woods is atonement.

Had a very similar situation in a game a few years back.

>Party has all been affected by the BBEG's antics in some way, some more severely than others
>Over the course of the story we find out that after the BBEG lost her daughter in the fighting she realised what she had done
>Is apparently now trying to make amends
>DM keeps trying to hammer home the redemption part
>No one in the party believes it
>Fight our way up to the top of her castle
>guards the whole way saying "No you don't understand."
>break into her chambers
>BBEG isn't even willing to fight, DM goes into an incredibly long monologue about how she's sorry for what she's done and how she's now doing her best to make the world a better place
>not one of her reasons even comes close to justifying her actions
>After nearly fifteen minutes of this the Fighter interrupts the speech by initiating combat
>DM almost screeches and has the BBEG no-sell the Fighters attack, then disappears in "A blast of purple light."
>Ends the session
>DM then goes on a rant about our lack of roleplaying and that we should listen to what she has to say because then we might forgive her

Found out later that his BBEG was more or less a waifu he created for himself, since he had an absurd amount of artwork of her, most of which was most likely fap material.

So to answer your question OP, chances your PC's almost certainly won't care about her current state, since they'll want to punish her for what her "old self" did. They'll beat her bloody and then throw her from the tower to finish the job.

That's really cool user. I really like the idea of good being such an alien concept to a demon that he's trying to quantify it.

I think it would work well either way, but with different focuses on exactly how they work. Assuming a classical kind of fantasy setting, the Queen isn't going to be the nominal leader of the place, just the power behind the throne. Her deeds are ones of subtlety and scheming, assassinations and poisonings and the ruin of others reputations and standing as she guides the country to her plans. As such, her change of heart could come from the fact that as she's done this over the years she's built herself into a giant web of lies and schemes and falsehoods to the point where every action she does is carefully considered and constantly switching between personas. There is nowhere that she can simply be herself, everything is another falsehood to keep her in power and she is sick of it.

Meanwhile assuming a similar setting, the King would be exemplifying the weight of his crown and weight of his decisions. No one is the villain in their own story, but after wars and executions and tyrannical decree after tyrannical decree the king has lost sight of where he started and why he did this in the first place. If the Queen is trapped in a web of lies that threaten to entangle her if she fails to weave them correctly, the King is alone on a tower made of the atrocities he has committed. With every decision he has distanced himself from the reasons he made them, and at this point the weight of the crown is enough that he doesn't know why he does this, or does anything anymore. He persists because he is the only one who can, with each weary decree building that tower higher and higher until the day it either collapses or he jumps off.

So yeah, you can do either. The point is that they imply different kinds of things. Direct rule versus indirect rule and whatnot.