/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>What are good reasons to continue making /wodg/ general threads?

Learning great new shit about Thaumaturgy and other really impenetrably weird elements of the system.

So I found out something that's pretty fuckin neat: spirits can learn werewolf gifts (presumably shadow ones only for the most part) as numen... which seems pretty sweet. Fits along with how qashmal can learn promethean transmutations, supernals do magic well, strix can use disciplines, etc.

Demons, changelings, and oddly, beasts seem to be the standout ones as far as not having ephemera-ish beings that can use their powers.

Dont spirits teach woofs the gifts in the first place?

>Not taking responsibility for own mistakes
Must run in the family user. Your dad comeback with those cigs yet?

>changelings
>ephemera
They don't really have a lot of this going on, but all the antagonists also have the same powers.

I'm not saying I don't share in the blame. I'm just saying you sure do too.

>Deflection
Have you tried politics? You would sit really well next to the recent crop

Local politics seems like a sweet gig, everything from city council up pays full benefits for what is a less than part time job, and you pretty much can't be fired for your term and are likely to be re-elected on momentum. The real sweet spot is state legislatures. All the bribes you can take, no technical job requirements or duty to do anything, and you get to hire a staff to do all the work you should be doing.

It seems dumb not to be in politics if you can afford it.

Exactly. I'm working on what is basically a chronicle in the style of a megadungeon style sandbox, but since creatures are often more ambiguous and versatile than strictly violent monsters (though there are plenty of it) I envision that it'll rotate people's almonds more.

Similarly, while most my owod/nwod games were more linear storytelling, the PCs are definitely going to be the most active figures. So it'll be a big departure for me as well.

Ah nice.

I don't understand Changeling too much, only real reason I thought they might have ephemera is due to it mentioning Unfettered Beasts might become Hedge Beasts in some cases.

>Dont spirits teach woofs the gifts in the first place?

Yes. I assumed, until I checked the wiki, that it was just some sort of gimmick about the spirits being better teachers than they are doers, or perhaps its supposed to be like a summary of their influences useful for PCs, or whatever.

That power is from Vampire Players Guide 2nd Edition, though there is a similar ritual in Blood Magic: Secrets of Thaumaturgy (only level 5, and scales with successes); not to mention House of Tremere introduces the idea of "developmental rituals" where you use earlier but weaker rituals to develop more potent/improved versions (heigher rank) of it

Are there any kind of catchy tunes that could conceivably be an earworm that also sound be taken as vaguely sinister or eerie? I was thinking it might be the trademark of an antagonist.

youtube.com/watch?v=GruDfecYbxM&t=265s

This would only really work for Weaver/Alien/Technocratic entities.

>Learning great new shit about Thaumaturgy and other really impenetrably weird elements of the system.
Here's a bit of largely unknown Thaumaturgical trivia, House of Tremere introduces the possibility for Path (not rituals - very important distinction) powers of level 6 and perhaps even beyond. And it says that Thaumaturges with a rating of 6 in a created Path can "--improvise-- aditionally powerful effects" ...so much for dynamism being the monopoly of Awakened magick.

Nice catch.

That book was a bit tryhard, but it had some good ideas.

Cryo Chamber has some really good eerie stuff youtube.com/watch?v=vnFTIDddU4E

Very nice.

Since gargoyles don't seem to have any mechanical incentive to be made from a strong vampire, would there be any problems with making it so a gargoyle is treated mechanically as if it had diablerized the vampire(s) that was sacrificed to make it?

Since the Tremere have so many THIS ONE WEIRD diablerie tricks anyway.

I never looked at gargoyle creation rules but I was convinced that was how it worked already

are rating 6 paths mentioned anywhere else?
or is there any morrre info on them

i think there are gargoyle creation rules (as in using thaumaturgy, instead of the embrace) in rites of the blood v20.

>What are level 6 disciplines?

there may be other places as well.

>what is the last 15 years of Thaumaturgy explicitly not being able to go above 5 dots

i was talking about rating 6 thaum paths. not other disciplines

[citation needed]

>i think there are gargoyle creation rules (as in using thaumaturgy, instead of the embrace) in rites of the blood v20.
Yes, there are, though for same reason the ritual is called the same as the dark ages' one but produces infertile gargoyles as opposed to fertile ones;

If I were I'd look into House Tremere (and the Book of Storyteller Secrets, which is where it points for the creation of ritual-made gargoyles), the rules are much more extensive;

For example you can make fertile gargoyles (which is pretty neat all things considered, it took only a single ritual of rank 5 to establish a new bloodline); these fertile gargoyles can embrace new mortals and even animals (this is established on Book of Storyteller's Secret); in the dark ages Visceratika is yet to be "created"; but the book says Visceratika is a byproduct of years of internalized rituals (gargoyle rituals and humors) which the Tremere casted to empower their creations;

A single ritual level of 5, three different kindred and you can have an arbitrarily extensive army of gargoyles (animal or otherwise)

youtube.com/watch?v=eXv0tqBtv3E
?

Yeah but its just lose a path point to create a gargoyle that can't embrace, nothing about the original has anything to do with the product. You can also make it harder on yourself for no gain by using multiple nos/garg/tzim, but no mechanical benefits.

Was reading two forums started on OPP

Mages have stronger mechanics than Thaum

What made them lose to Tremere other than White Wolf demanding it be so?

How would one make a proper war considering this

possibly too heavy for what you want but I found silent hill final boss music to be really memorable
silent hill 2- betrayal.
youtube.com/watch?v=WShknpNpHbY
silent hill 2- red pyramids. I think this is just betrayal with better audio
youtube.com/watch?v=nyd2loU5eOw
silent hill 1- my heaven. fair warning, most of this song was actually made with a dentist's drill
youtube.com/watch?v=tY92NAdGaR4

Paradox is backlash from reality AKA the subconscious true magick of the masses.
How you're coming to this conclusion is beyond me.

>Paradox is True Magick
>Paradox can effect you in realms where there are creatures that do not do True Magick

Where exactly do you get this idea from, other than out of your ass?

So Prime 5 is better than banning rituals...?

Have the OoH not attack during the night like total idiots..? The Massasa War was a truck of pure genius. GENIUS.

...Do you honest to god not know what Paradox is in accordance with Ascension?

Why is she lactating?

Geez, user. Even I'm not this stupid. Paradox is consensual reality backlash, AKA the stuff that True Magic(k) is.

>Paradox can effect you in realms where there are creatures that do not do True Magick
In the same manner that Archmagic garners Paradox wherever one is, even within the safety of Sanctums.

You're taking your pet theory too far. Paradox does not count as True Magick. Paradox is simply a paradigm reacting, but a paradigm is not necessarily crafted by True Magick.

The other user brought up an example of how in places like Heaven, Nether Realms and other Spirit domains treat things as Vulgar and can incur / change how Paradox works. Spirits do not use True Magick, because they do not invoke Paradox.

Paradox is therefore not True Magick, so it can be banned.

Mind directing me to the threads?

Paradox and True Magick are derived from the same source, so no, sorry. No sane ST is going to allow you to ban Paradox, not unless you want mages to be even more broken than they already are. The fact that it can't ban Paradox spirits is evident enough of this.

Its not a pet theory, the so-called 'Consensual Reality' is formed by the Masses dormant Avatars collectively shaping reality around them.

To be Awakened means you can use this power consciously instead of unconsciously, that's why its called being Awakened vs being a Sleeper.

If everyone on Earth was to die suddenly, the Earth and possibly the rest of Creation would go up in a puff of logic. In at least one of the Ascension scenarios this actually happens.

Metaphysically speaking Paradox could be considered a form of Countermagick, where the Masses do not believe you are capable of a feat and thus their dormant Avatars subconsciously try and prevent, distort, or punish it.

It says it can't ban Paradox Spirits, but not that it can't ban Paradox. Also, technically everything in the whole fucking Tellurian is derived from the same source, so I guess no sane ST will ban anything?

>Paradox. The subconscious reality deviancy of the masses attacking the privileged few.
>True Magick. The conscious reality deviancy of the privileged few.

HMMMM

Unless you assume mage vs vamp has mages that are smarter than in mage vs mage conflicts, Tremere barely needed Thaum at all to win beyond being fed willing sacrificial Salubri + the diablerie WEIRD TRICK rituals + Black Hand diablerie rules.

its one of those chain reaction quest thread type dealies where you wind up with a clan full of badasses stronger than the elders that were thrown at them

So it can ban God then? It doesn't say you can't. Are you really this naive? Shit, you don't even need an item with a connection, the Tellurian literally is God's pet project. Just pick up a rock and beat the Almighty.

>Vampfags LARPing as Magefags arguing that you can't ban Paradox when by RAW you can

Quintessence is, in fact, a seperate lump of substance from the ability to rape reality, be it through True Magick or Paradox.

There's literally no evidence other than a misinterpreted spell, bucko. I had to see the stupidity of Vampfags to believe the claims.

You actually can ban God if you get an object corresponding to him, since you can explicitly ban Spirits. You just cannot ban True Magick or Paradox Spirits.

Of course, God can unweave that easily, so it's not really an issue. If for whatever reason he decided not to, he would be banned. And that is exactly the kind of thing the authors were intending.

Your penis is very small.

Feeding the machines.

Nice. You've cemented yourself as a god ridden idiot.

I might as well ban unweaving. There's nothing saying I can't.

Go ahead and use Forces 9 "Force that Kills God" while you're at it

>no evidence other than a misinterpreted spell
>let me add 10 layers of personal interpretations not backed up in the text

Holy shit. The magefags were right. You are the absolute state of retardation.

That's True Magick. It says it right there. Of course, if you mean non True Magick unweaving, I'd question how you find an item that corresponds to it and what spheres you'd need for that.

The Technocracy are communists we already knew.

>can't ban true magick
>technically the same thing as paradox
>can't ban living paradox
>not misinterpreting

>And that is exactly the kind of thing the authors were intending.
What did he meant by this?

Sorry, friendo. True Magick isn't the only magic capable of countering other magics. Once you ban the very concept you're as good as gold.

>paradox is true magick because it is derived from quintessence
>you can't ban lightning because it is derived from quintessence
>you can't ban lightning because the way it works is shaped by the consensus
>you can't ban anything because of the consensus

How is making paradox stones that absorb it any different than banning paradox? its just a different focus for the effect.

Hence the House of Tremere one is infinitely better;

Also, the developmental ritual for gargoyles (Populate the Night's Garden) is much better;

You can take as long as you need to collect blood to make the three-way animal hybrid creature; the amount of blood you can spend to make it is unlimited, and you can make it so these creatures are fertile and can reproduce with each other;

It takes 3 blood points for each dot of Strength, Dexterity, Stamina or Perception and 9 blood points for each dot of Charisma, Manipulation, Intelligence or Wits.

Alertness, Brawl, Dodge, Intimidation, Stealth and Survival also cost 3 per dot.

Every point of damage done by the creature when it attacks costs 1 blood point. Infrequently-used attacks may cost only half a blood point per point of damage.

Storytellers may levy additional blood costs for special attacks or abilities, such as poisonous bites, petrifying gazes, unusual senses or exotic methods of locomotion.

With all that in mind, the power says you can define the type of hybrid you're creating and its purpose, like whether you want it to be an aggressive enraged war-hound etc;

1. Create a bloated/engorged fertile blood-cow that is docile and on heat all the time; breed them over and over again until you have a sizable herd; they leave up to number of blood spent on its creation x 30; could easily get them to live years (& the average cow gives vampires 5 blood points, so the blood-cows could potentially give much more)

2. Use the blood from the infinite herd of blood-cows to breed monstrosities with arbitrarily high attributes/abilities and special powers; might as well make them able to reproduce while you're at it.

>Paradox is true magick because it is derived from reality deviancy

FTFY

Technically speaking, every form of technology in the World of Darkness is True Magick. It makes the vampfags look all the sillier.

Physics is entirelty seperate from magic

That sounds pretty amazing.

The whole "rituals cast on them etc" stuff was also pretty awesome.

>Technically speaking, every form of technology in the World of Darkness is True Magick. It makes the vampfags look all the sillier.
That's not a vampfag arguing the point, it's literally a Magefag claiming that magick was broken in 2e and that he thinks Paradox can be banned with Correspondence

>the only things in World of Darkness not shaped by the consensus and therefore True Magick is the other splats.

Not exactly, its one step "below" hedge magic

Umm, what? No. It's a vampfag arguing that Paradox can be banned when the spell's write-up practically says it can't.

Really makes you think. Ascension should have been its own game.

Your cellphone is a piece of magic, user

It only works because reality says so

Enjoy Technocrat products

Its not magic with a K.
Its more like the rituals that let you summon DtF demons.

>Vampire Lawnchair
>Forces 9
>Casting at you, not on you
>Correspondence 3 banning Paradox

Do other splats have an equivalent for garbage like this?

>Its more like the rituals that let you summon DtF demons.
The rituals that were taught to mankind by Lucifer? And that are part of the mythic threads because you don't even need to be an Awakened mage to summon them?

No, its true magick, you just don't need sphere dots to use it.

Correspondence can't ban Paradox. You can ban Paradigms though.

>And that are part of the mythic threads because you don't even need to be an Awakened mage to summon them?

Yep

Not how it works at all.

By RAW you can. No sane ST would let you, same with Lawnchairs and "casting at you, not on you"

No. The Union's Paradigm saturated the Consensus with its own not!magick. Modern technology -is- True Magick, though the pesky Technocrats won't admit to it lightly.

That's exactly how a dominate paradigm works.

By RAW you cannot.

Don't be as retarded as the vampfags now.

>casting at you, not on you"

That's... A valid approach? Fireballs are sometimes better than spontaneosly combusting a foe. Or better yet, combust the air around them instead.

>Mage 20
>Mind 3 is needed to do anything with a Psionic paradigm
>Father's thrusting his cock inside of me
>at every opportunity nerfs Mages to cater to vampfags and werefags

Nah. At most its linear magic.

Phil literally refused the Arch Spheres because he concluded that the Spheres on their own are already magnormously more powerful than Disciplines and Gifts and blames it all on a TYPO.

>nerfs Mages to cater to vampfags
As its fair