/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

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>Mages can only command Spirits to do a simple task and have to reach as many successes as the Spirit has power with Spirit 4
>Meanwhile Vampfags can command a Spirit to do a highly dangerous, complex task at Path of Spirit Manipulation 3 with less than 7 successes

Source? What book is that from and what page on it?

The Spirit Ways I think.

It's his fault for being a shitty Pentacle mage. Inferior Uratha can't enter a Seer cocaine orgy without a leash and muzzle.
Also:
>Wasting time on the other sex
>Not rushing Gnosis and Arcana as fast as possible to become an Exarch and chill in the Supernal.

Both he and the goth girl deserve getting nommed to death by a vampire like the failures they are.

Fucking love that image

Thanks. It's definitely my magnum opus when it comes to Virgin vs Chad memes. I added it to the General Creation Kit.

>Rushing Gnosis and Arcana for ascension
>Not rushing them for their own sake
>Not electing to remain on earth immediately after becoming omnipotent to chad eternally
laughingaldous.jpg

So is the leftmost top-chad a werewolf to go with the glorious mage and reconciler, or..

Yeah it's Margrave. I ripped it from this shitpost (pic related) that a friend of mine made a long time ago and posted up last thread. The rest of them are all mine, which you can probably tell by the difference in quality and effort. The Virgin user vs His Chad Friend

So another forum continues to discuss the 'vampires don't have souls' thing that was posited by one of the writers for V20 Black Hand. Does anyone ACTUALLY have a page quote? Because I just spent 20 minutes searching the word soul in the PDF copy I have and there's a LOT of mentions of souls and using them, but no mentions of NOT having one. A few rituals and powers in the book explicitly state 'the vampire does something with their soul' like the Tzimisce soul-maw that destroys mortal souls. Anyone?

Vampires have souls, it's just that the souls are damned/cursed. There was even an excerpt from the Gehenna book last thread that suggested making the PC Kindred Wraiths after they died and continuing the game in the Underworld; that wouldn't make any sense if they lacked souls.

Man, imagine if you added that to the suggested 'extraplanar gehenna survivors' support group. Vampires have a pathological need to shit on other vampires; they'd be reduced to tormenting vampire ghosts.

I've only played VtM back in the early 2000. Sell me on the other WoD systems, I really dig the lore (except for Wraiths, I always thought they felt forced and unnecessary but that's just me).

Daily reminder that Wraith is the best game in oWoD.
youtube.com/watch?v=MarTvlktcXA

Right. I'm looking SPECIFICALLY for any reference from V20 that says they don't. I know the one writer who was pissed about WW purchasing the WoD from Paradox posted that 'OH GOD THEY CHANGED IT' and it keeps getting shoved around the internet, and I would like to actually page reference if it's still a thing.

Vampires having souls didn't get retconned, especially not in V20 which is metaplot-agnostic and probably wouldn't be making bold declarations like that. In fact, this is from the 28th page of the V20 corebook.

"Diablerie: The Amaranth
Along with advanced Generation comes a price,
however. Generation equals raw power potential, and
those of higher Generation seek the power of their elders.
By slaking one’s thirst on the heart’s blood of a
vampire of lower Generation — drinking the vampire’s
soul in a transgression known as diablerie — a Kindred
can lower her own Generation."
>"drinking the vampire's soul"

I know. Like I said, there was an OPP developer who at one point claimed on some forums he was mandated by NuWW to change around V20 Black Hand to state that only vampires who'd achieved Golconda had souls. Which was my question, since i found references to them having souls and using them in magic rituals in that book, so I was curious if I was overlooking something elsewhere in the book that didn't use the word 'soul'.

This is retarded and gimped. 7 successes should be able to compel a Gaffling to do whatever the fuck the Mage wants for a good few years.

...

So is Helena really the most beautiful vampire?

Her sire is prettier, as was, presumably, Zillah

>goes searcing
>finds David Hill is the one who posted it on Veeky Forums

Oh, well, into the trash it goes, like eveything that moron wrote. Glad that it proved to be not a real thing.

Lucita tho

>Appearance 8
>not even 9

How could anyone resist anyone with Appearance 8?

>Lucita has only 4 in Appearance

What the fuck?

Because Appearance as a stat is stupid?

With Appearance 9 and a mirror.

>A worm demon is x2 as pretty as the prettiest Vampire.

>tfw this is the most beautiful thing in the WoD
Holy shit I'm keking.

>Willpower of 20
>Gnosis of 25
Extrapolating, but I think his other two spirit traits should be
>Rage 25
>Essence 600

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In the oWoD I'd say Garous, when they're not being shitty yiffers. The Technocracy has far too many issues and internal dissent after the Avatar Storm. They are but a shadow of their former glory. But a Garou that doesn't yiff is the Chaddest. If the yiff and nature masturbation removes point, then probably Hunters.

In nWoD, without question, it's Golden Road mages. Fucking Golden Road mages. Fucking "I don't really come back to earth any more because every time I have an erection in that realm twelve thousands redhead are retroactively born and fated to suck it".

>he followed through

Based user.

Aeons are Incarna-level and Incarnae kind of have infinite Essence, they never need to feed nor ever fall to Slumber (and entering Slumber an only happen if they were fully drained of Essence)

Its Gnosis isn't necessarily 25 either, it can be guessed so if you assume older spirit rules (though it even says those rules apply only to when he's materialized, when he is not his spirit Traits are too high to create),

With the new rules Materialized spirits can now generate Abilities and Attributes by spending Essence; it'd only take him 179 Essence to generate a form with all the Attributes/Abilities it has

...

What would the stats sheet of a Waifu goetia look like?

We need one between the Brujah and the True Brujah.

>implying the Trujah are Chads
>implying they aren't just special snowflakes with a dumb Discipline

lol fag

Even in the old rules, Gnosis = Mental/Social Traits. You only had to spend essence on physical attributes, abilities(Makes no sense) and health levels.

But the infinite essence thing is a fair cop, though. Can you defeat something with infinite essence?

t. ```````````````````````````(((Brujah)))'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

listen fag not my fault you're not a real brujah

You can defeat it in theory, but you can't kill it. What defeat means in this context is highly subject to change and interpretation though.

>current year
>playing bloodlines

Why don't you play a clan like a normal person user? You don't need a super duper special rare bloodline 90% of the time if you just make an actually interesting character

>super duper special rare bloodline
>main reason I haven't made a Salubri even though I'd love to play one

>previous year +1
>playing the gameline that failed critically and financially

Kek. I'm sure your mom believes you're very special.

>But the infinite essence thing is a fair cop, though. Can you defeat something with infinite essence?
Even the destruction of the planet of the Planterary Incarna Rorg wasn't enough to kill him, he merely took the mantle of Incarna of the Asteroid Belt afterwards; Ascension book even discusses he'd be one of the potential candidates/have the power to throw the earth-ending meteor that not even the collective will of all Awakened mages managed to stop.

I actually like the Salubri a lot desu. They're on my list of good and acceptable bloodlines (especially the Antitribu) and I'd personally only consider them snowflakey if you roll with the Tremere propaganda about there only being seven Healers left. Then again though, the only time I played one was as a Salubri Warrior back in DA, and the game was set a time when they were still a clan and Saulot hadn't been diablerized yet -- so maybe I'm not the best judge of them and their status.

The Tremere are such Mary Sues that all the bloodlines they're involved with have their snowflake energy absorbed simply by proximity.

my favourite part is that the Tremere are super strong vampire wizards and their leader has been taken over by the guy he ate to gain his power
I like the theory that SalubrixTremere is helping to propagate the rumour of only 7 healers at any one time to protect them

>The Tremere are such Mary Sues that all the bloodlines they're involved with have their snowflake energy absorbed simply by proximity.
Oh please... don't let the past bitter your undead heart, we merely proved ourselves to be willful and cunning enough to succeed where most wouldn't

>"failed critically and financially"
>tfw still getting 20th anniversary editions
>tfw getting 5th editions
>tfw spawned a cult classic game and white wolf's testing the waters again with a new werewolf vidya
>the popular underworld movie series was successfully sued for plagiarizing it
>it served as the entire foundation for the big three and this is evident to this day by the metric shit ton of shared terms

*for the big three of CofD

>thinks VtM failed critically and financially

What are the thoughts on Geist 2e

The *very* little we've seen of Geist looks good.

It's never been touched by MattMc or David Hill, so that's also a plus.

However, DaveB is a major writer on the new book and seems very excited about it. Prepare for a lot of Geist Supremacy. They may even be powerful and cool enough to be mage sidekicks.

>Tremere have a single path that is better than an entire Sphere mages have access to

Jeez, Thaumaturgy is really great isn't it?

Thaumaturge rolls his Willpower at a base difficulty 6 for Voice of Command; which can be decreased to as low as 3 and possibly even lower through innumerous means;

If Path of Spirit Manipulation is the Thaumaturge's main Path and he has an Enchanted Talisman, he receives +2 dice to his pool.

If the Thaumaturge has Enfolding the Believers (Level Three) he can have an arbitrarily high dicepool to use it, which scales considerably going by his Herd background.

Spirit rolls its Willpower against the Thaumaturge's Intelligence + Occult as difficulty; this is a minimum of 10 for a specialized character and can be 12+ for even a 7th generation (+2 difficulty for each generation removed from 8th)

Thaumaturges can still create a ritual based specifically on Voice of Command or similar spiritual power (like Menele did to explode Vesuvius), only that more powerful and specialized (which can be chained with the things described above, and the Ritual of Holding & Vires Acquirit Eundo)

Thaumaturges can still create auxiliar rituals to greatly enhancen a specific Path power like Major Creation does to Path of Conjuring (and still can chain all of the other rituals described above on top of it)

Need only 5 successes to have the "spirit accept a lengthy or nigh impossible task, or one that means its destruction"

amazing, this'll be the pic for my chronicle

That's a Rote you dumbass.

A'ight what are we going to bitch about today?

And an outdated and dumb one at that. Funny how vampfags'll cite M20 ad nauseam when it suits their purposes but'll pay zero attention to it otherwise.

Seriously. There's also that there are so many ways to boost willpower.

I mean, true wuv and true faith aren't remotely fitting for 99% of thaumaturge chars, but on paper it works.

Glad you enjoy it user.

Tentatively hyped. I love Geist but the rules are a mess. Would have been satisfied with a 1.5 honestly.

Most Magefags still play/wank Revised; and it's not like spirit dealing mechanics in M20 are also not heavily criticised by mage players because it takes a shitload of additional Specialties and Knowledges, and that regardless Path of Spirit Manipulation is better than either version

good, can't wait to ignore sin eaters and acquire legions of geists via mummy or mage powers

between sphere like powers and discipline like powers, which kind of spirits do you think are more fuckin neato/apropos for your ideal chronicle?

For the sake of the argument, ignore whether its a VtM or MtA chronicle, simply state which is better according to muh feels

>magefags like Revised

What? What universe are you living in? Everyone I've seen on this general loves 2E and I've seen plenty of criticism levied at Revised.

Are there any rotes from revised that are better than that rote? I refuse to believe a Mage can be so weak at commanding Spirits.

Something that a lot people don't consider is that one of the Tremere's strongest weapons is their unity; even three willful Tremere with Thaumaturgy 3 and the Power of the Pyramid ritual (level three) could bind their Willpower together and let the third Tremere with Path of the Spirit Manipulation 3 with upward 30 dice.

>And an outdated and dumb one at that.
>Everyone I've seen on this general loves 2E

mage logic

If by Discipline powers you mean set and clearly defined ones then I go for those. The Werewolf rules are naturally the best ones for spirits and that's why Mage shares them (excluding 1st Edition of course). That being said, however, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having particularly powerful spirits have access to pseudo-Spheres or w/e. I mean, Nexus Crawlers already have reality warping covered to an extent, so it's not like it's particularly out there.

>implying i'm him

I was just chiming into the conversation. But ignoring that, I don't see how that's contradictory? Most liked doesn't mean most recent.

one Magefag was criticizing the rule for being outdated yet you chime in saying most mages are stuck in 2E (because they're too afraid of the newer rules that nerf them :>)

>Dream Maker
Dark Angels that grant untold power to only the most evil of people makes for a great hook, especially if you want to make sure a Nephandi doesn't summon one
>Hunter Spiders
Cyborg Spiders with machine guns and nanomolecular weaponry. Perfect for a city/corporate chronicle
>Thor
I don't know where you could get a Thor from, but it'd be cool to include a representation of a God or great mythic legend.

>"M20 is the most recent edition though."
>"Vampfags ignore the most recent edition because it's a terrible edition and most fans of Mage seem to naturally flock to Revised."
>"But magefags like 2E the best so that line of thought doesn't really ad---"
>"XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD MAGEFAG LOGIC LOOK I DON'T GET HOW CONVOS WORK CAUSE I FRIED MY BRAIN CELLS FAPPING TO THE WORST MARY SUE CLAN"

Nameless; rolls at a minimum 30 dice (can be much bigger, Storyteller gets to decide) resisted by the character's Willpower, if he gets more successes the character dies + nuclear explosion

>implying that m20 isn't a nerf to revised and that revised isn't a nerf to 2E

you'll most mage players flocking around revised and 2e and repudiating m20 with every inch of their bodies and an everlasting hatred for goatboy

Nice, didn't know this was a thing.

>A Tremere tells the Nameless to Take the Name of a baby after 5 successes
>Probably causes WW3

>get a cool new spirit
>command it to use its noble phantasm
>everyone in the chronicle including self die horribly

I'm not saying people like M20, I'm saying that people like 2E the best and seem to generally dislike Revised. They don't dislike it as bad as M20, sure, but just because piss is preferable to shit doesn't mean guzzling it is everyone's favorite pastime.

M20 and 2E are garbage. Revised would be better, but since the Avatar Storm and forwarded metaplot, it's a drag to play.

I prefer 1e myself. Just was a more together product than the sequels. The random ways they made the game worse on purpose in 2e onwards make no sense to me.

>whee make higher level of Forces do less damage on average cuz that makes sense xD

Why didn't I think of this when I was playing?

You know animal functionality usually doesn't scale up to human size right?

I thought the Get did join up with the Nazis. At least some of them. And for a while they had the Sword of Heimdall lodge - or a name to that effect - that was explicitly a Neo-Nazi group within the Get.

Not saying that's a bad thing. If anything, it's in their favour: the Get wearing sweet vintage Hugo Boss and rocking the Knight's Cross mit Eichenlaub.

Some did, yeah. And Himmler was a vampire. Disgusting Gets serving the Wyrm.

Get of Fenris nazi werewolves are extremely dope. I envision them as developing proprietary gifts that run off improbable diesel tech like how Glass Walkers get gifts that run off electronic tech (and others) due to the Sword of Heimdall's focus on homids.

Not to mention that Nazi ideology is a perfect mesh for garou beliefs; the right combination of hippy frou frou tree hugger/animal rights crap and hatred for the weak. Garou truly despise disabled people and despise homids for allowing the genetically inferior to live (see: Book of the Weaver). I could see them having a gift that increases certain or all dice pools against people equal to the combined total of physical and mental flaws.

Serving the True Balance Wyrm. Jews are a force of the Weaver.

t. Ragabash