B-but gunpowder doesn't work in my setting!

>B-but gunpowder doesn't work in my setting!
There's more than one way to make gunpowder user, or does combustion simply not exist in your setting?

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BASED

Gunpowder
Gunpowder can only be extracted from the remains of a specific monster, CR 10+. Like Deer musk used for perfumes the real world. It would be rarer and impossible to manufacture in a lab from scratch. Attempts to use real-world recipes for gunpowder would simply not produce a substance with the known properties.

The following levels of armor class bonuses make any creature immune to firearms and cannons.
Deflection +2/+4 means that projectiles bounce off and lose all kinetic energy
Natural armor +4/+8 means that projectiles don’t have enough force to cause damage (or armor magical enhancement bonus)
Insight bonus +4/+8 means they can dodge the projectiles
Sacred/Profane +3/+6 as in deflection

All firearms and cannons are single shot and require more than 1 round to reload.

This makes magic stronger and real-world technology weaker

Also, gunpowder causes a type of Tuberculosis, the save is rolled each time a shot is fired;
Infection DC: 20+1d6/2d6 (firearm/cannon for everyone within 10 ft., Inhalation, Contact)
Incubation: 2d4 weeks
Damage: 1 point of Con lost per day and each day the victim is either (50%) Fatigued or Exhausted until cured or death occurs due to having a Con of 0.

>implying my setting even uses real-world chemistry
>implying my setting wasn't sung into being by the gods

>implying that I'm going to let some entitled jackass browbeat me into giving his character equipment far beyond the setting's tech level

Is there even any reason to explain why there is no gunpowder in the setting? Just have it not be a thing without wasting effort on thinking excuses for it. Maybe people just haven't figured it out yet, maybe there's something more to it, who cares. If gunpowder doesn't fit the themes, tone or aesthetics of a setting, there's no reason to include it, and if it isn't a known thing in the setting, any player who tries to invent it as if his character somehow hada clear vision of the substance in his head is an obvious That Guy who should be dealt with accordingly.

why do you assume all settings are based on high to late medieval europe?

Why should my dark ages setting have guns? Why should my antiquity setting have guns?

Or, your setting has magicians who can create "flash powder". or who can summon fireballs from nothing.

there has to be a need for a development, before it becomes useful. With magicians able to do that, there has never been a need.

so gunpowder probably exists, the chemistry works, but no-one has turned it into a weapon.

in the same way the greeks had steam engines. but they were nothing but a curiosity and toy.

>it's the gun thread again

Oh, you mean that stuff that none of the fire spirits will touch with a ten foot pole. Guess you shouldn't try to use something that was used in a heresy centuries ago and no longer works by the decrees of several gods.

>t.advanced butthurt
If the setting is of an appropriate tech level then gunpowder of some kind should exist. Now this is not to say that it should be terribly easy or safe. In the dee and dee's explosive powder and cannons exist- they're just unsafe enough that most sane people won't touch it, and those familiar with it are frequently stunned or sickened by it's dreadful power. Hell you can have guns, just demand your players explain how and why they have experimental weapons in a traditionalist world. I've done it
>Half-orc soldier
>knighted for valor
>Given access to better equipment and the pay to commission gnomeish weaponry after a demonstration
>Able to fight after exhausting 4 single-shot weapons
Reasonable damage, possibly armor bypassing and a lack of scaling with a 1-turn reload. They're flavoured crossbows for christ's sake.

now if you just wanna be the historyfag and ree that it's "not the right era" then fine

user, why do you want a gun in Pokemon

Because they canonically exist. Bitches hunting Rhydons with rifles in the Safari Park.

WE HAVE THIS THREAD EVERY DAY

Fuck just make a "retarded fantasy gun discussions general" at this point

>wanting something just because it exists
youtube.com/watch?v=j7leQB_Oe_k

>WE HAVE THIS THREAD EVERY DAY
try every 3 hours

Scientist would be mages and as scientist, they would study mundane world as integral part of the magic world. Magic would make science and technology advance faster.

Great you have guns in your fantasy setting, user. Now explain why it infused with magic and their presence hasn’t created an arms race
>bu, bu, but... that just doesn’t happen
Yea sure ok user, it seems regular motivation and power escalation doesn’t exist in your setting. intellect is your broken gunpowder

There's nothing wrong with magical guns and cannons.

Simple. They are and they have. Now shut up and sit down, bitchtits.

>WE HAVE THIS THREAD EVERY DAY
You must be new to modern Veeky Forums. Now that actual fun threads get moved to other boards, the point of Veeky Forums is to repost the same bait threads every day and try to beat the reply count of the previous repost.

As long as (You) keep replying, OP will continue to make guns in medieval fantasy threads every day. You can either ignore the threads, or roll around in the shitposting like a happy pig.

You're assuming my setting has magic at all. Mount & Blade and Kingdom Come are the future of fantasy, the death of the WOW pauldroncore subgenre is near

They haven't discovered gunpowder yet. However the increased spread of information allowed by magic has increased technological centralisation. To the point where discoveries from around 100AD have spread everywhere.
Meaning we have prototype steam trains being produced

You realise what happens then user. DEUS becomes the only flavor and style people want

Because I said so. It's my setting, and I am the GM.

If you want guns you are more than welcome to go to a setting and gm that wants them. If you try and force them in my settings prepare for every evil cult and demon to try and subjugate you for the knowledge and every spellcasters to seek you out and want to kill you and erase the knowledge. Nevermind the actual gods that exist and can exert influence on the mortal realm who aren't just going to watch while you try and disturb the natural order of the world they created and own.

good____________________________________________________________________________________________

Good lord that art is horrible

What's with this butthurt about guns if they're going to be slightly more powerful, slightly less accurate crossbows anyway. The biggest change would be in the siege warfare, but it probably won't even concern you anyway.

>does combustion simply not exist in your setting
Yes, and?
Or you are one of those bitchboys who needs his fantasy to be "realistic"?
Let me guess, your next step would be to assume my fantasy is based on medieval, because bitchboys like you can't think of any toher types of fantasy.
And your NEXT next step would be to say that reality can't work without exothermic reactions, because you faultily assume that our reality and its laws are in any way related to the fictional world I'm playing in (which it isn't).
Checkmate.

Do you mind explaining the physics of your world then?

>If the setting is of an appropriate tech level then gunpowder of some kind should exist.
No. Fuck you.

I don't give a shit about existence of guns personally, but gunfags claim that it is a natural evolution of technology (which it is) and that it should be widely available and important to the setting at hand - and that's where the argument falls apart, because existence of guns becomes almost meaningless to the setting if you restrict the gunpowder to amounts that are economically, strategically and logistically meaningless.

Sure, here you go.
thevoid.gamepedia.com/The_Void_Wiki
ru.turgor.wikia.com/wiki/Зaглaвнaя_cтpaницa

>playing tabletop in a setting with gods

Anywhere you aren't currently perceiving is filled to the absolute brim with Danny DeVito clone fairy godmothers who move everything around as it should be. If you can perceive a physical action or reaction, it's a Danny doing it over your shoulder.

But they do, guns have actually had around a century of development and the first repeating rifles are finally being deployed within the Drasinian military. Meanwhile the Elves make use of Needlers which are basically magical rail guns that shoot as the name implies needles of magically charged metal. Addtionally Cap guns exist which both sides use that operate by replacing gunpowder with what's basically solid magic.

Because guns can only be shitty for so long before it doesn't make any sense that they haven't gotten way, way better. You're not just going to have muskets forever, someone should eventually figure out the advantage of barrel rifling, and if not, why is your setting full of dummies?

Becauser supernatural power in my setting can only exist within the bodies of living beings for any appreciable amount of time and while they can be amplified through being forced through certain gem latices via direct skin contact or integrating certain minerals into the body there are no "enchanted" items.

People almost exclusively want gunpowder in fantasy games to be metagaming wank-off cunts about it and invent thousands of years of technological development themselves with their INT 10 character.

If you didnt want to play in a fantasy setting where gunpowder is irrelevant, why did you join my star wars campaign?

> Mount & Blade and Kingdom Come are the future of fantasy
No they aren't given that both these games are incredibly fucking niche, and Kingdom Come isn't even fantasy.

It's the problem with technological stasis in fantasy setting. You could say the same thing about armors. Why bother with chainmail or anything else for that matter, when plate should dominate. You don't have to cover yourself from head to toe if you want to carry less weight. Even crossbows would look much different if you had access to better materials.

was it really worth your time to write all that?

To shoot back when Team Rocket pulls their missile launchers and shit?

HEY GUYS THIS TOPIC IS GREAT, I'M TOTALLY NOT SICK OF SEEING IT, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT'S WAY MORE INTERESTING? DICKS. Does your setting include dicks? How does it handle dicks? What do different races' dicks look like? If you don't include dicks, why do you hate realism and fun?

Because mail, while labor intensive, doesn't require as much skill to make, and you can get away with making it from shittier steel.

In D&D, plate armor is expensive as fuck compared to other options, presumably because the high-quality steel required to make it is rare.

Sure, now. In 5 years? when literalyl everything is crusaders you'll start up on "deus helmets don't exist in my setting" and we'll start this whole shitshow again

>tfw you'll never play a Pokemon game where you go poaching ryhorns with assault rifles to chop off their tusks for the black market, and when park rangers try to syc their Growliths or Ponytas on you, you just shoot 'em.

Nope. No dicks. No internal fertilization at all, in fact.

Great rebuttal there. You know what would make people try this less? GIVING THEM GUNS. It's like a drug or dealing with toddlers..I should not need to explain that your autism only makes the forbidden fruit so much sweeter.

Or you're just another buttflustered wizard player who can't tolerate an iota of threat at the idea that Billy farmer might get a lucky shot off while you're summoning your waifu

>park rangers
>not just assassinating you from across a field behind cover while you're harvesting poke-parts.

>uhh roll perception
>how many hp do you have?
>you don't even hear the gunshot that kills you. The other PCs do hear it though
>sounds like a rifle caliber favored by park ranger marksmen. It came from north-northeast

If you get guns, they get guns. Simple as that.

While mail is tedious to make, it doesn't require as much skill. Additionally, poorly fitted plate is much more cumbersome than mail

No, I think we're just all tired of the same copypasta on this board.

My players don't demand guns in pre-modern tech level games. Never brought it up, in fact.

This axe looks like a cheap toy.

>"B-b-but i just spent 3 hours looking for a picture of the anime gun i want"

Reminder to masturbate before posting

Congradulations Sir Jackass, in nerfing gunpowder you just unwittingly made the Ranger useless, as if the nerfs of 5th ed. weren't enough.

You deleted your first post to fix a typo and you still spelled it 'congradulations'.

>deus helmets
What exactly is a "deus" helmet? Do you mean a great helm?

Given that if you think hard enough in the right way you can conjure flame ex nilho I would imagine nothing works the same.

this

honestly is someone came at me with that bullshit at the table I'd let them try and create gunpowder only for it to blow up in there face, killing them instantly. If a player actually took the time ic to research the explosive properties of different substances and experiment with them over the course of the campaign then i would allow them, over time, to come up with an explosive powder akin to gunpowder, though it would be a very long time before it ever saw any refinement, mass production, or military use.

Because that would be fun I'm sure.

What's wrong with her neck?

>not having plasma rifles and laser canons in your fantasy setting
lol, faggot

Whatever happened to just sitting down with your players and discussing what you expected from the game? What happened to the days when you just said "I don't want to include gunpowder because it's a high fantasy game"? If you can't even have an honest discussion with your players you shouldn't be in the hobby.

Those were dark times.
Good thing they are over.

Newton wasn't a scientist he was an Alchemist. He was also super pretentious and all his peers despised him.

That's what my group would actually do. I think the thread's premise is a group with the poor/nonexistent communication typical of new roleplayers.

Answer me this.
How is gunpowder made?

It's such a simple formula that requires so few steps that if you disallow my legally retarded character from making it from scratch you're a bad GM.
It actually involves getting a bunch of saltpeter, guano, and your own piss and making a foul concoction that you then allow to dry into the powder.

>Using assault rifles against fucking rock monsters

youtube.com/watch?v=QU1IImIwde0

Why not?

"No one has discovered it"
or
"It doesn't work"

Discussion over, on to other things.

Aside, it's pretty fun to toss random technology in that's a couple centuries ahead or behind its earth-equivalent. I've got steam tech going in an otherwise fantasy environment and it hasn't ruined things at all.

>Discussion over, on to other things.
Yeah, I'm sure the troll will stop posting three of these threads a day now that you have so conclusively shown him the error of his ways.

Chronicles of Amber has an interesting way of dealing without this. They live in a multiverse where the laws of phyisics change depending on what detention you are in but if you are close enough to Amber (the original universe) gunpowder ceases to work. One character finds out that a jewelry polish in his demension has similar but less powerful reaction as gunpowder in Amber.

You can always go that route and just say well instead of gunpowder for *insert reason* everyone here uses this less powerful things that I get to control the use of.

Saltpeter now doesn't exist in my setting. Done

just perish already, burger, your gay gun fantasy doesn't fit with sword and sorcery

Combustion is the work of the fire spirits user, trying to coax it out of some dust is a fool's labor.

Because it’s art from Warmachine.

but my setting does have gunpowder

Double this. Though in my case it was not so much singing as a drunken game of who could create more. Things got really weird as world creation, and drinking, progressed.

>"guns should take multiple turns to reload!"
>in a setting where crossbows can be reloaded as a move action, and crossbows that literally require a crank to cock them take a full round

Gunpowder coexisted with the weapons traditionally found in fantasy roleplaying games historically.

It honestly isn't that hard to put it in as an alternative weapon. Id say up to matchlock would be fair for most fantasy style games. (Matchlock as a more expensive weapon where as most users of gunpowder just have handgonnes)

Cannons on forts and boats.

People just retardedly think that gunpowder killed off armor in warfare when really armor is just expensive and having tons of peasants with broomsticks was just cheaper than armored knights or men at arms. Early firearms had excellent killing power but they werent unbeatable by armor.

You have to remember primitive handgonnes were easily cast by blacksmiths you could crank out a bunch relatively similar to how ancient chinese cranked out bronze cast weapons.

Musketballs/conical bullets are just as easy as leads melting point is very low you just need a sturdy ladle or cast iron pot to pour the lead into a mold.

If you go the real world chemistry route saltpeter can be created via combining human urine (or animal) (Aparently wine drinker urine was best for gunpowder for reasons I dont remember) with organic matter. Charcoal from burnt wood and sulpher. Most towns had a shack they did this stuff in for local use.

The match is literally just a reedlight which was common in homes in medieval times.

No you wouldn't. You'd grumble with impotent rage and then move along.

Firearms were utilised in tandem with armoured cavalry - the European wars of religion being a perfect case study.

Plus, for the most part cavalry tended to dismount and fight on foot - massed ranks of pike will beat most cavalry any day.

>potassium nitrate doesn't exist in my setting

Uh oh.

Steam tech isn't exactly advanced either, all the tech was technically there to make steam engines around 100AD but no collation of technology due to logistics and all the shit involved with no real tech advancement of the means of production due to associated with slaves

You just make it with piss and shit using the french method, not hard.

My understanding was the Romans knew about steam technology but didnt yet have the metallurgic knowledge to build engines which could withstand the pressure to do any serious work thats needed to make locomotives

expense related to gunpowder could be offset by relative ease of ammunition manufactuer and cheap cost of lead compared to making arrows.

Remember that there was also risk associated with loading and using crossbows similar to missfire with a improperly seated ball on a firearm there are many cases of strings snapping on winching crossbows causing laserations or eye injuries or severing the thumbs of a user who had an improper grip.

I just like the idea of more black powder mixed with fantasy for a gaming group with historical affinity and I think that the idea that black powder firearms and fantasy can't mix is ridiculous.

Banning guns and powder in campaigns for reasons of tradition is laughable however I guess if you don't want to develop the rules or deal with a group of adventurers who want to have modern smokeless firearms or think that firearms were all powerful it would by annoying.

Why not just say
>Gunpowder works, but bullets only do 1d1 damage so you're better off using a bow
>What do you mean inaccurate? Damage is in the first place an abstraction, it has no real life analogue at all.

Sure, user. Firearms exist in the setting. Use the crossbow stats.

Yeah, their mass produced steel was pretty trash. The Chinese had mass produced steel equivalent to 1040, 1060 and 1080 carbon steel basically. Even 1040 is good enough for steam engines.
Basically if you take the steel mass production and refining of China plus the steam tech knowledge of the greeks, you can justify primitive steam engines in around 100AD

Simply put:
Gunpowder was never developed due to the fact that Elementals were fucking easy to bind into slavery, and they're far more effective and simple to use compared to mixing a bunch of fucking rocks together

Not to mention that Gunpowder didn't exist in Europe until the Silk Road got it over there. What are you going to shit your pants over, that there's no fucking Porcelain in someone's setting?

Gunpowder arrived in europe in the 1320s.

To put this into perspective that is the same time period in which the longsword was popularized.

Same with the halbard.

Most of the plate armor that is featured in art of DND core rulebooks didn't exist until the 15th-16th century although similar armor did exist earlier.

Good God will someone get this faggot a gun so he will shut up already.

Dragonborn have massive hemipenises and tend to be very homoerotic/frottal during their competitions that show off for women.

I also developed a table for dick size.
>Gnomes, goblin, halflings: 1d4 (average 2”)
>Elves: 2d4-1 (average 3”)
>Humans, dwarves, half-elf, tiefling, aasimar, genasi: 2d4+1 (average 6”)
>Half-orcs, dragonborn (hemipenis): 3d4+2 (average 9.5”)
>Orcs, goliaths, firbolg: 4d4+3 (average 13”)

>Applying logic to Fantasy
Hey look everyone, this guy's a BORING CUNT

Just saying a lot of people think of gunpowder as some magic be all end all of weapons when it really coexisted with things normally considered normal in fantasy settings.