So how does the average guardsmen measure up to a modern military force?

Absolutely superior in every respect. A laz gun would tear through a 21st Century tank or helicopter like wet tissue. It would be like one of those "How would a modern tank regiment fare against the Roman legions?" threads.

>How would a modern tank regiment fare against the Roman legions?
Tank shells would just bounce off of a proper turtle formation though

Even then "modern" militaries have primitive equipment compared to them.

It would be like zu zulu wars.

nigga u dumb

The IG has tanks and arty out the ass. What they don't have are spaceships.

>How would a modern tank regiment fare against the Roman legions?
my grandfather told me a thing about ww2 when facing english tanks with just a cannister of fuel and a lighter or even just stuff to pry the hatches open
"Tanks were terrifying, but when the first was was swarmed, doused in gasoline and set on fire, all the other tanks started to reverse or the crew even abandoned the veichle as soon as people jumped on top of it and breaking up the radiator. Because tanks have crew of human beings fragile and terrified as we were

>first battle, romans dont know jackshit, get gunned down
>they scatter around the place
>trap a few of them with deep moats and other kind of traps or slaughter the crew when they are relaxing
>reverse engineer the tanks and conquer the world

a man can dream

You literally have no idea what i'm talking about you absolute retard

What you're saying is still wrong though, because even if different regiments of the imperial guard specialize they still field whatever they want because the game wants to allow you to field whatever at any time.

So the guard regiments whose whole shtick is rough riders can still field a fucking baneblade.

Bitch they literally can't even make the materials needed for a tank.

How the fuck are they going to reverse engineer an engine when they don't know what gasoline is.
How the fuck are they going to reverse engineer a bullet or shell without knowing what gunpowder is made out of?

That's not even getting how all the alloys and composite materials are completely unknown to them.

Only on tabletop. If you dive into it it would be separate regiments from the same world you are fielding in a game. Your infantry may be Mordian 36th but the two Russes are from the 1156th.

Modern tanks are not WW2 tanks

Modern Tanks are very difficult to get stuck. Modern Tanks do no operate alone. Modern Tanks do not have hatches you can pry open easily. Nor can you just pour burning fuel into them.

Modern tanks are not WW2 tanks

No idea, its 38k years into the future... they are probably not the same height, id say a little smaller or taller

They are VERY well trained, but the general combat/battle doctrines are usually dogshit.

Modern tanks have still lost to ditches, sticks, and fire.

A regiment of rough riders will only field rough riders.
The baneblade is a different regiment altogether with a different command structure, and most likely from a different world.

>They are VERY well trained,

This is literally the opposite of canon.

Individually his equipment is more advanced and has piss-easy logistics. He has probably a few extremely reliable cybernetics if he has been deployed already. Without taking regiment doctrines into account the guardsman is probably better of.

let's see
>Cadians
Perfect soldiers training from birth
>Catachan
An army of Rambos
>Death Korps of Krieg
Unflinching soldiers that welcome death

Pretty much all named armies are incredibly badass

citation?

>Savlar Chem-Dogs

Bunch of twitched out street hoods given guns and drugs and told to fuck shit up for the Emperor

That's a Penal Legion

Still better of then soviet penal legions, where you want against a machine gun unarmed.

Unfortunately, America.
Superior Tech, Inferior Training

>bunch of crazed murderers high on combat drugs
I say drop 5 Savlar in a modern army camp and let the fun begin.

They are poorly trained compared to the warrior monks trained from birth, transhuman super soldiers, and bio weapons that make up most of their counterparts. Defiantly not when compared to modern forces though.

In 40k? Yes. Compared to modern world? They have air support from Valkyries and Vendettas, they have vehicles... Sentinel may not be as tough as a tank, but it's more mobile and suited for urban enviroment and it could fuck up tank easily with 40k guns.... lascannon will fuck up any modern tank that gets into its LoS. There are even missile artillery sentinels, though I do not know if they are air-mobile.

Care to give any piece of fluff which says the imperial guard have to do this? The fluff from the current codex and old ones says it is typically practice but some regiments have different structures.

I've seen pics of such things happening in Syria and Iraq, but I don't have any at the moment. ISIS would build ditches and camouflage them, so Iraqi/Syrian tanks would fall into them at a 90 degree angle and get stuck

It should be noted that, barring named characters or explicitly elite factions, the average guardsman is expected to last about a day in actual combat. Their gear is better, no doubt, but they die in droves because lack of experience.

So it would depend. A mixed arms regiment, something that doesn't really appear much in the guard, would kick ass fine. However, an infantry or armored regiment without air support would get eaten alive by drones.

It has more to do with the things they go against, rather than deficiency on their part.

Iraqi/Syrian tanks are not modern tanks.

the lasgun is said to blow off limbs and kill anyone without armor
its fully automatic, has negligible recoil, accurate to the same range as a typical assault rifle, with about 30-50 shots per power pack
this makes it about as good as a recoilless, automatic, 30caliber rifle

flak armor has a fair chance of stopping a lasbolt, and (as of 8e) a good enough chance of stopping a bolter, which has the same STR as a 50cal
given that a cadians armor is not much more encumbering than a ceramic vest
flak armor is a minimum of a class 4 vest, with the dimesnions of a class 3 vest, possibly exceeding any wearable armor if you take "small chance to stop a 50cal" as literally true

BS3 WS3, though jokingly referred to as poor shots, actually compares very favorably to a normal guy of BS2 WS2
this implies that, as far as individual training goes, they are at the very least given average standards of training

so assuming a fight on a grassy plain, with only sandbags for cover, with neither side having the initiative, with equal nimbers, and being commanded by identical generals
the guardsmen actually have the advantage
their guns are battle rifles with the portability and mobility of assault rifles while their armor is, at the very least, somewhat better if not a whole lot better

modern soldiers could have the advantage if they use NV goggles and drones to give them the intelligence edge over the guardsmen
but at that point we give guardsmen their own toys like plasma guns, and the sides even out again

The same thing happened to kikes too. No matter how fancy your tank is, falling into a ditch or falling from a step hill is going to be a very bad thing.

some of them are

>bolter
>which has the same STR as a 50cal
0.75 armour piercing explosive rockets is more powerfull than 0.50

>but user, it's got the same S4 as heavy stubber!

You retarded fuck he is talking about organic combined arms regiments.

There are no iraqi or syrian tanks, neither has an organic tank industry, they buy them from the Russians or the US.

In fact during the Iraq War there was a VERY embarrassing incident where a bunch of Soviet tanks which the Iraqis had bought and refitted, which the Russians were claiming were a match for the Challenger IIs, got rekt not by American Abrams tanks, but by a bunch of fucking Bradleys the USMC deployed at the last minute because they had gotten a line on a supply form wrong.

The Americans smashed a regimental strength armor force with a bunch of APCs with tow missile strapped to them. Hilarious.

Lol please cite your example of superior training.

crunch vs fluff, who wins?
gameplay isnt very realistic, but i will assume comparitive strength is accurate enough

a heavy stubber is stronger than a autogun, which is stronger than an assault rifle in DH but not 8e, but weaker than an autocannon
the bolter falls into this rather broad spectrum of weapons
going more granular in DH shows that it is more damaging than a heavy stubber from its high explosive, but since its pre-8e rules, it can still punch through guardsmen armor

Monkey model export T-72s not like the Russian ones were much better. The Export model BMPs with the flammable armor magnesium alloy armor the commies sold Sadam.

I don/t know what Iraq was hoping when their were buying 30 years old soviet tanks in export version.

They die in droves in 40k when pitted against mind-defying xenos or supersoldiers. They had the time to train all the way to the warzone. There is whole regiments of veterans.

Even more embarrassing incident was when Iraq RPG-7 penetrated M1 Abrams armour.
Of course US Army made it secret

Alright, so I see some fan wankery going on in here about how advanced 40k tech is.

So I think this needs to be posted.

>Even more embarrassing incident was when Iraq RPG-7 penetrated M1 Abrams armour.
was it the 1st or the 50th RPG that did the trick?

tanks have come home with 20 direct hits from RPGs of every sort with no critical damage
there was a case where an RPG-21 buried as a landmine did penetrate a tanks belly armor, but this was the bigger, meaner brother of the RPG-7 firing at the thinnest armor on a tank

...

They where bought during or soon after the Iran vs Iraq War and Iran didn't have that impressive tanks to field to even the downgraded T-72s where impressive there.

>fan wankery

Why? According to the fluff and designer notes many of weapons are suppose to more powerful than we can comprehend.

Because I'm of the firm belief that 40k tech isn't any more advanced than ours is. Perhaps in the logistics department, sure, but in terms of actual strength and power? I think the tech is even or slightly worse than ours.

And I think that makes the setting better. You have segments of incredibly powerful technology, sure, but by and large the Imperium has fallen so far that it can't even mass produce tech superior to our own. So it has to fight it's wars with relatively primitive technology, despite all it's claims of superiority.

But again the fluff says these weapons are more powerful than we can imagine. A plasma weapon is said to hit with the power of a sun or Eldar weapons is so good others think it is magic.

It's generally advanced, but still schizo tech.

You wanna know where the IG has its greatest edge over us?

Battery technology.

In a battery the size of an ammo clip, they can fit enough energy to power a man-portable weaponized laser for 60-100 shots.

Plasma weapons are also incredibly rare, your typical hiver will never see one in his life.

Actually hive gangs are running around with them.

It also a point that a strength 7/8 weapon is hitting as hard as sun. That would obliterate anything a modern day army has.

I've never seen hivers with them in fluff, only in crunch.

Lore wise House Escher are famous for the amount of plasma guns they use.

A bit late, but here you go.

>A fusion reaction takes place inside a Plasma or Meltagun.
>hit with the power of a sun
>Eldar technology is literally sung into existence with such refined mastery and arcane tolerances the Mechanicus can only guess at many of their underlying principles.
>Eldar weapons is so good others think it is magic.

>reverse engineer
>when most civilizations considered oil wells useless for hundreds of years

nigga

But not all regiments are structured like this as already stated in the same source, as this picture is also taken from the 8th edition codex.

In fact this passage says infantry regiments are "unlikely" to use many tanks not forbidden. I think you misread the codex as you are confusing a common practice for a law.

>sources use regiment and company interchangeably all willy nilly

I'm amazed that I can still be amazed about how poorly GW seems to grasp basic military concepts while making a wargame on this scale.

Lasguns have the same strength as autoguns

And don't forget it can be charged solarly or in a pinch (and at the cost of battery life and stability) chucked into a fucking campfire for a quick charge

>I think you misread the codex as you are confusing a common practice for a law.
Not at all, I just think that whether it is a common sense practice or a ironclad rule is largely irrelevant. The majority of the time, a regiment will be of a single type.

The claim that there are plenty of Guard regiments that field a combination of infantry, armor, and artillery is demonstrably untrue. So while yes, you can field a detachment that has multiple types of units, while nominally being from the same regiment, in-universe that would not be the norm and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

>IG have enforced separation of arms just so that a single regiment will never be able to wage war by itself if it goes rogue

It is relevant because regiments can have large amounts of tanks and infantry and this entire talk was started because someone claimed that this practice was "enforced".

>The claim that there are plenty of Guard regiments that field a combination of infantry, armor, and artillery is demonstrably untrue

Depends how you define plenty, because there are untold billions of guardsmen from different worlds who all structure their regiments in different ways. In the grand scale there isn't many but that would still mean there are millions of regiments like this.

>It is relevant because regiments can have large amounts of tanks and infantry and this entire talk was started because someone claimed that this practice was "enforced".
Then you're just being pedantic - that poster may or may not have been correct in his statement that it was a concrete expectation, but it's not relevant because the end result is the same. Most IG regiments are not combined arms regiments. Period. Why does it matter whether or not this is enforced by Imperial law?

Is that really what you care about? Whether that anons use of the term 'enforced' was correct?

>Depends how you define plenty
Come the fuck on, mate. Not most. Not a good chunk of. Less than a quarter. A very small amount. Relatively rare.

Take your fucking pick. There are not plenty of combined arms regiments.

House Escher also controls a 5th of a hive and the gangs affiliated with it have it's non-official backing

>Depends how you define plenty, because there are untold billions of guardsmen from different worlds who all structure their regiments in different ways. In the grand scale there isn't many but that would still mean there are millions of regiments like this.
The only named example from the fluff that i can think of is the Cadian 8th
It's safe to assume that it's extremely rare

Dude, you are the one being pedantic . This entire talk is about if imperial guard regiments are enforced to only have one kind of unit per regiment .They are not enforced to act like that and the ones which do function like this sometimes have some combined arm units to support them. A infantry regiment can have a few pieces of artillery or leman russes but not many compared to an armoured company.

Again, I asked for a piece of fluff stating why tanks and infantry cannot be part of the same regiment.

That's not advanced technology, that's just space magic.

There's not enough thermal energy to produce the effects they do.

Cadian 8th is a infantry regiment. According to the second 3rd guard codex.

and they have some tanks

superior equipment, inferior training.

>Again, I asked for a piece of fluff stating why tanks and infantry cannot be part of the same regiment.
Are you an idiot?
You already got fluff saying that an infantry regiment is unlikely to have any heavy artillery.
Since actually having that artillery would be a major advantage to any infantry and every single regiment would really like some then that means there must be something stopping infantry regiments from getting some.
Otherwise all regiments would have heavy artillery
If it wasn't enforced somehow then almost every single regiment would be like a modern division instead we have the opposite

>This entire talk is about if imperial guard regiments are enforced to only have one kind of unit per regiment
Ok, let me clear this up for you - there is no kind of on-the-books law or rule that forces a regiment to be a single type of force, whether that is infantry, armored, artillery, cavalry, etc. An infantry unit may have some Chimeras, or a couple artillery pieces, or an armored regiment may be supported by a few infantry platoons, but by and large, the vast majority of regiments will not be a combined arms force. They will be of a single 'type' of soldier/vehicle/whatever that is usually used in a specific type of role according to their equipment and training.

In the cases where infantry carry out an operation with the support of armor and artillery, it is not an all uncommon scenario that those mechanized units have been seconded from another regiment in support of the infantry for the duration of the mission.

>I asked for a piece of fluff stating why tanks and infantry cannot be part of the same regiment
Because it's much rarer for a regiment to come from a world with an industrial base large enough that it can equip its regiments with armored vehicles. Armageddon is one such example of a world that can. But obviously it's much cheaper and more practical to simply raise a standard infantry regiment and send them off with little more than lasguns and uniforms, than it is to make sure they are constantly supplied with vehicles, ammunition and promethium. Which is why the majority of IG regiments are probably nothing more than your basic line infantry.

There you fucking go.

Are there any good stories of this example from our own timeline? I wanna read about shenanigans

>You already got fluff saying that an infantry regiment is unlikely to have any heavy artillery.

Which I already read because it was taken from the same source I already posted. In fact I said from the start it is common for regiments to be structured without support but it is not a law to be like this.

So why are you being so defensive? It was claimed that regiments cannot mix which was false but an understandable mistake as the fluff does say something close to that.
Are you actually reading my posts?

>Why? According to the fluff and designer notes many of weapons are suppose to more powerful than we can comprehend.
Pure fanwank that is obviously not remotely close to the truth.

A lasgun can neither do shit to any kind of armour, even the shittiest rags will provide protection against it.

Against any ordinary human, it has a 50% chance of rendering the target unable to fight or move.

This is not "stronger than we can comprehend". Not even close to it.

That's a commiephobe capitalist meme, nigger. My great-gramps was shtrafbat commander. At worst you'd get a Mosin, which at that time still was the best mainline rifle, if not nearly as ergonomic as the counterparts, there was plenty of machine-guns, and you usually could count on your artillery and what air support your commanders could spare.
The real downside of shtrafbat was that you'd always be first unto the breach, never stop, never rest until you'd either do something worthy of HSU to get your redemption (nevermind getting your deed acknowledged otherwise), or die.

>A plasma weapon is said to hit with the power of a sun
And yet it has a good chance of by doing any damage to an ordinary human.

They must have very weak suns in the 41th millennium.

Lasguns are shit compared to everything else they have to contend with in the universe
We're talking about a scenario of Guardsmen vs a C U R R E N T Y E A R Earth force bruh

From that start I claimed this. I was replying to a posted which stated tanks and infantry cannot be from the same regiment.

How big is a given regiment? Sounds like the word has no relation to its real life counterpart.

depends. Cadain ones are small at a few thousands while Valhallans have them in the million.

"Several thousand soldiers", however the fuck many that means.

Let's just go by this for the scenario

Terrain, theatre, and real world opponent are up to everyone else

OP here
Omit Psykers from the scenario because that opens an entirely different can of worms

>in fact I said from the start it is common for regiments to be structured without support but it is not a law to be like this.
Because the only way it would be common for regiments to go without integrated support is that they are somehow forbidden from adding it.
If there was nothing stopping them then they would all add it at some point in the last 10 000 years of war

Let's see a turtle shell hold up to a single round of canister shot from an Abrams. It's just a couple dozen tungsten balls I'm sure the wooden shields will hold up great.
Oh wait

But that is just your own fan theory which you want to present as a fact.

>Lasguns are shit compared to everything else they have to contend with in the universe
>We're talking about a scenario of Guardsmen vs a C U R R E N T Y E A R Earth force bruh
Doesn't matter. 40k never implies that a regular human is different than one of our world, and they can eat a lasgun shot, completely unarmoured, 50% of the time, and keep moving and fighting with no difficulty.

You literally have nothing. A lasgun is not "more powerful than we can comprehend.". In fact, it is quite reasonable. It is only superior insofar you count ease of logistics compared to the fire power it has.