We discuss how and why the fighter class sucks and how important it is for a game to break out of the DnD mold

Fixing classes through magic items is pretty awful. But its also probably the easiest way to do it.

Honestly I'm not sure what you want to do.

My issue with fighter is as follows: Its only good at dealing damage, and its only average at that, can't target anything other than AC, it has no class features other than some battlemaster options for crowd control, it doesn't have social or exploration class features.

I think they should have made fighters each have a secondary mental attribute, like intelligence for eldritch knight. Say wisdom for champion and charisma for battlemaster. Give the fighter better and earlier saving throw bonuses so that it doesn't get fucked pumping that secondary mental attribute. Give them extra skills tied to that mental attribute with expertise. Give them class abilities that allow them to hold the front line and do crowd control without being forced to take feats to be effective at it.

Eldritch Knights needs to have its subclass options be fixed so that they're useful. Battlemaster needs the maneuvers balanced so that they're all equally good. Champions need to be given options if they want to do cool stuff but still have the ability to keep the playstyle simple if the player doesn't like complexity. All subclasses should have some access to maneuvers.

>We discuss how and why the fighter class sucks and how important it is for a game to break out of the DnD mold,
Or to paraphrase
>Let's whine some more about 3.PF instead of just playing better games

>Its only good at dealing damage
Not true anymore thanks to archetypes.

>its only average at that
It's a top tier DPR class.

>can't target anything other than AC
So?

>it has no class features other than some battlemaster options
Eldritch Knight, Samurai, and Scout disagree

>We discuss how and why the fighter class sucks and how important it is for a game to break out of the DnD mold.

Is this about D&D or isn't it? This seems like a very confused op.

I didn't think the samurai got any crowd control class abilities.

Wheres scout from? I haven't looked at it.

Samurai has is a fighter, so it can make 4 attacks and Action Surge to turn that into 8, which can then be augmented and supplemented with maneuvers or spells.

Scout:
media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/04_UA_Classics_Revisited.pdf
Gives more proficiencies and a larger skill list, superiority dice, and Natural Explorer.

>got any crowd control class abilities.
>can make 8 attacks per turn
fighter crowd control doesn't rely on archetype.

Needed less fighter core stuff and more archetype stuff, make each kind of fighter distinct from Mr "I attack"

Oh my god, I'm currently at about hundredth episode of Shippuden and it seems animation won't get any better.

god Cooler was an underrated villain, dude deserved his own arc at least more than Garlic fucking Junior

Put in insane feats like "you have 50 dudes who wanna be your BFF"

Split up existing martials into Fighter options, feats, or rules everyone has access to

Part of the problem is the insufficient carry-through of certain themes.

For example, fighters have "resistance/endurance" as a theme. They have higher hit dice than the majority of classes, and have access to heavier armor because of this.

However, the theme isn't carried through, and therefore falters: Fighters aren't particularly resistant to most kinds of spells, typically only being good at the more physical types of saving throws. (Notably Fort, or Str/Con in 5e terms.)

The simple solution is to find ways to implement abilities that empower those options. Some initial untested thoughts are the ability for fighters to use Con for a Will save(or Charisma save), showing their sheer stubbornness allowing them to resist some effects. Or sword-and-board fighters getting an evasion-style effect representing them using their shield to shrug off magical effects.

Second, the fighter is a symbol of martial and physical prowess. This is evinced through a high number of weapon proficiencies, as well as high BAB/Feats, or increased ASI/feat opportunities in 5e. However, a fighter's skill level has been often hampered by his lack of, well, skills.
This has been somewhat addressed in 5e, with the generally reduced number of skills by classes bringing them closer to the fighter's baseline, but another ability here would be useful.

An easy fix is to give a baseline ability of "Physical Paragon" or some such name, automatically granting the fighter proficiency in a relevant physical skill, and either an increased bonus or another physical skill later. This allows fighters to spend their skill choices/points on other options that help establish a character.

The last issue that needs to be addressed is the..."avoidability" of the fighter: yes, invisible devils flying at 150 feet can fuck over a fighter,or any number of cheap tactics. This is a complicated problem, but I think the easiest solution is to force enemies to relinquish such tactics.

(cont)

Something like "Target of Renown: You have established a name for yourself, one that is respected or feared in various corners. As such, the weight of your reputation wears on your enemies, as does the prospective glory of your defeat. Any foe who would attack you must make a DC (your level+your highest attribute SCORE) save, or they must at least announce their presence and intent before the assault. Failing this DC by 5 or more forces them to engage you at your 'strength'. (if you primarily wield melee weapons, they must close to melee range, for example.)

The problem is two-fold as it's a clash of narrative vs. mechanics.

When it comes to magic people have varying tastes and that's something that can never be reconciled but the setting is suppose to set the groundwork for how that, and anything else for that matter, works.

Take a system like DnD where the mechanics are seemingly seperated from any core setting which allows you to make a setting of your own but the mechanics drive the settings and any setting specific stuff is window dressing unless you are using rules specifically tailored for it but that has no affect on the core books.

For what it's worth, most, if not all settings, have magic obviously but that magic is never really integrated in setting in a logical way it seems. There are a few people who have access to a tactical nuke that does whatever they want and everyone else lives by the rules of reality in a setting where dragons and beholders and gods are real and things you can interact with.

This comes to another issue where people want different things out of the setting. The "low magic" setting people who have normal dnd wizards in a sort of real world type setting and people who have high fantasy settings with DnD wizards in their natural setting. See the problem?

DnD should have four classes. No more and no less.

Continuing with this the mechanics of the spells leaves nothing for the "mundanes" to do. If you have thee classic wind wall using flying wizard why can't the rogue or monk run up walls and trees and shit to go get him or why can't the Fighter be Hawkeye Gouf swole that his arrow pierces the windwall and hits the wizard? Why do spells just auto do stuff instead of,say, give the wizard a skill check to use or even making a skill check in the first place to see how effective the spell is or if it backfires?

Yes, let’s.
It’s not like everything you say here will be forgotten within four days and lost in the endless morass of Veeky Forums‘s shitposting and bullshit and endless repetitions of literally this exact conversation or anything. I’m sure THIS time this conversation will actually matter and affect real change in the hobby and alter how everyone in the thread plays games rather then just allowing you to masturbate aloud and in public into an internet echo chamber.

It's almost as if literally everything you say applied to every single thing you could post on Veeky Forums, barring maybe quests and that jumpchain cancer

I always just buffed them into Physical-God tier in order to keep the party balanced in high-level campaigns.

Most of the movie villains were better than Garlic jr.

Fighter gets saving throw rerolls, literally all the spell-less classes get saving throw bonuses. Barbarian gets danger sense, fighters get indomitable, monk gets evasion and diamond soul, and rogue gets evasion and slippery mind. That's on top of getting bonus ability score increases. Add in that ability checks aren't ass like the 3.pf (or even in 4e to a degree), 5e fighters are fine unless you want the extreme high-end of power levels on all classes which 5e can't do (and 3.pf can only do for casters).

>can't target anything other than AC
maybe make a special attack that is like a head bash if succesful it makes the caster lose a spell slot while still dealing dmg.

this might already exist, i just fuck around making my own systems instead of playing existing onces, its just my hobby.

They really should have a bonus action thing similar to cunning action, but more related to combat. Stances would be a cool thing to incorporate. Like using your bonus action to go into defensive stance, giving you +2 AC until your next turn and once every short rest allows you to parry using your reaction, or high guard stance, giving you plus damage on the next strike you hit with and allows you to use the same parry, except this is a counter that damages both you and the opponent, but you take half damage and get advantage on the AoO.

Battlemaster maneuvers should be more powerful, longer lasting things.

I sort of like the way 3.5 does it, with fighter being the base fightsy guy and being able to specialize. It just sucks that Eldritch Knight is underpowered and Battle Master doesn't scale well. Let's not even speak of the abomination that is the Champion. Basically if I could decide the three routes, they'd be as follows:
>Elditch Knight (but not sucky): focuses on increasing damage output with arcane magic spells (and some minor defensive spells)
>Paladin [which means the base class disappers]: focuses on increasing hardiness with divine magic buffs (and some minor offensive smiting)
>Battlemaster: full mundane all day erry day. Can end up doing some crazy Hindu mythology tier shit though.

>>Paladin [which means the base class disappers]:

No. Paladin should be the basic divine option, get the Cleric out of here.

>Paladin should be the basic divine option
I don't think so, if only for fluff reasons. A cleric is just a dude who follows his god, big whoop. A paladin is supposed to be the pinnacle of virtue, the archetypical holy knight. It shouldn't just be something you do, it should be something you earn. One of the paladin's abilities is an aura of good. In other words, the guy just radiates how good and pure and awesome he is simply by being near you. I'd rather see a fighter build up towards becoming that rather than already being a holy-ass motherfucker right off the bat.

The cleric also doesn't infringe on the fighter's niche as much as the paladin does. The cleric is his own thing, and cannot be removed as easily due to being the archetypical divine spellcaster/healer.

>every caster that isnt a wizard is some version of a wizard
>but bc whiny bitches hate their friends doing something in their pillar of the game only the wizard is allowed to be good
>this means almost ever caster character is better off being a fighter with different flavor or role play
>dumb asses thinking not everyone should be involved with all pillars and that a class owns a pillar
>the DnD model wizard is reall a dumb ass wizard wizard
>i.e. We all cast, but I cast more and only cast so I get stuff that would fit another archetype better bc this is my pillar
And just like that, you're a fucking idiot.

Solution 1) Play a different game.
Solution 2) Redesign DnD from the ground so that the combat is not the primary purpose for the rule's. Incorporate greater simulation and gameism ideology for the other pillars. Ensure classes are more than "does combat in different way" when compared, specifically be delimiting classes into very specific roles such as combat, exploration, social interaction, etc. (NOTE: The result of this would give you a game that is fundamentally not DnD.)

Solution 3) Sage this shit thread, and stop rehashing the same discussion we've had a thousand times over just because some new idiot stumbled in off the shit train and starts it up again.

I powergamed as a 3.5 fighter, had a permission to use all of the splat books. Tried to chain as much of feats as possible and abuse the math involving a 2-hander. I could basically dish out optimally up to 150 dmg per round, switch to a different target and trip people in chain. The problem is, my character was mechanically bloated that even I had trouble in following what I'm doing. Add to the fact that the limited number of skill points were focused on powering up my feats which lead to not having any useful party worthy skills and to the fact that my saves were the worst of the worst....I wouldn't particulary recommend this.

I any case, at this point, I would rather go into any martial class like a paladin and pick a few choice feats that my experience has thought me from playing a fighter and avoid the base fighter class all together.

Personally my ideal fighter would make Battlemaster the default fighter and then take class features from the legendary leader prc from 3.5

dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/legendary-leader/index.html

>The cleric is his own thing, and cannot be removed as easily due to being the archetypical divine spellcaster/healer.

Uh, no, the cleric is a bizarre mechanical construction. The archetypal divine healer is a guy in a robe with an staff.

Yeah, that's the big problem with 3.5e fighters: feats are not only worse than class features, they scale a lot less well. Powergame all you want, but by the end of the story you'll be able to do one thing really well (and even then probably worse than the barbarian) and that's it.

Yeah, which is why I believe the cleric should be turned into that guy in a robe with a staff rather than a pseudo-paladin.

Labyrinth Lord and some retro clones have an automatic body of fighting men and knights appear for knights, and get a base of operations. A lot of really interesting domain mechanics.

Check out the Divinity templates ranging from Disciple to Quasi Deity if you look at the minimum hit dice/level for each you see that it starts at 5 and each templates minimum is 5 above that so 5, 10, 15, 20 for the divine ranks before what we would consider an actual god

These four templates are what I use in 3.5 to keep martials useful because it provides useful abilities that allow a fighter to keep up with the wizard
For Example the Disciple Template that I give to 5th level martials gains among other things an At-Will Command spell-like ability, +10ft all movement speeds, Damage Resistance 5/Magic, and spell resistance equal to their hit dice/levels +11

And the Rifts mold. And the Reolemastger Mold. And the LotR RPG mold. And the Runequest mold. and the WoD mold. And any other game with magic or powers that fighty people don't get.

Yes, we can tell you don't actually play any roleplaying games at all.

Yes. they also scaled differently since the experience point tables were skewed, and their saves went up faster than casters spell levels did. they could also attack multiple times before the casters finished their spells since spells took time to cast that could be measured, instead of instantly cast, and one HP damage could destroy the spell. Monsters also have flat percentage chance to outright ignore magic, and a flat percentage chance to locate an invisible creature.

Are you high? In most other games there isn't really a heavy restriction that prevents you from being a Fighty man who happens to know magic or gain access to abilities that put them far beyond normal men while being 100% non-magical in nature.

Only D&D has the pants-on-head retarded design philosophy of "Martial=Mundane, Supernatural=Magic" and you can see how stupid this shit becomes once you reach higher level and you realize that something like Wish, a reality warping spell generally reserved for high level fiends and genies in other forms of media, is a spell that Level 20 Wizards just get as a consequence of getting enough XP to get that many levels.

>game has martial artists that are not magical martial artists
>"this is D&D's fault"
Have you tried actually playing d&d instead of mindlessly parroting half-ironic internet shitposts?

>a Fighty man who happens to know magic or gain access to abilities that put them far beyond normal men
Then he's not a fighty man, no matter how you refluff it.

Incidentally 3.5 D&D and PF also let you do that, they're called the Tome of Battle and the Path of War, respectively. PoW is endorsed by Paizo, so the idea of 'fighty man doesn't have extraordinary abilities that give him options' is REALLY inapplicable to PF. you also diodn't need that in AD&D because you could simply try anything you liked and expect to have a chance to do so, as per the DM's Guide. Even called shots to maim, blind, and injure were not terribly difficult for medium level fighters.

But that doesn't matter because you hate one game so much you can't stop talking about it.

Like I said, you clearly don't play RPGs.

>Then he's not a fighty man, no matter how you refluff it.
Why? Fighty man's whole archtype just boils down to "good at fighting" so why exactly wouldn't Fighty man use magic or chi or whatever the fuck to make themselves the best fighters they could be? I mean, they already depend on magic by proxy of all the magic items that they need to have equipped just to keep themselves on equal footing so why pretend that they don't depend on magic just as much as the Wizard?

Matter of fact, what exactly does the Fighter bring to the table that cannot be done by a Paladin, Ranger, or caster spec'd for melee like the war cleric or a Druid with natural spell?

>Only average at that
user, in 5e the fighter is top dog DPR. You need serious cheese to outdo him. Even in 3.x, he can have serious damage output and survivability beyond insane.

Combat capability is never the problem.

>Optimally 150 dpr
You should have seen what it'd be like when you were above level 4.

>Couldn't follow along the fighter build
Oh user... Shit, you should see how complicated you have to get for caster dominance.

I can never get over the irony of having a class named and built around being the best fighters in the group jobbing to practically every other class in and out of combat.

If it were up to me, I'd make Paladins the base Fighter class, give the BattleMaster's maneuvers and combat dice to every martial in the game but sectioned off by class (similarly to how certain cantrips are only available to certain casters) and relegate Fighters to NPC roles so that people understand why the everyman is getting his ass kicked by everything under the sun once the party reaches Level 6 and above.

Then as a twelfth class, I'd make psionics a core class so we have a second class in the game that runs off of INT, because fuck it.

The real culprit is the idea that high level martials must be bound by the physical limitations of contemporary IRL human athletes because the alternative is "unacceptably magical". Ordinary fighty man will never compete with reality-bending mage unless you either upgrade the level of physical prowess acceptable or severly limit the power of magic; but you can't do the latter unless you want to retcon/discard D&D's traditional High Fantasy settings, so do the former. Model high level Fighters not on Conan, but on Hercules.

I once went through a godawful AD&D session where, during a break, the DM talked about how he doesn't allow dual-wielding at his table and has a lot of issue with combat axes, because if you hit someone with an axe, the wound "sucks" up the blade in such a way that it's impossible to remove with one hand (a top strongman competitor tried and couldn't get it out in a similar situation with a prepared cow carcass), so even axe + shield is impossible.

>I once went through a godawful AD&D session where, during a break, the DM talked about how he doesn't allow dual-wielding at his table and has a lot of issue with combat axes, because if you hit someone with an axe, the wound "sucks" up the blade in such a way that it's impossible to remove with one hand (a top strongman competitor tried and couldn't get it out in a similar situation with a prepared cow carcass), so even axe + shield is impossible.
Realismfags, once again showing what two brain cells can do when you have half the facts and none of the answers.

Seriously, I bet if you tried to show these morons how a bearded axe worked they'd cry foul for "muh balance."

...

never this seen this gif before holy shit lol

>this gif

it's a webm

It's like people on this /tg think nothing but D&D has ever existed with the only exceptions being story based shit like Dungeon World. So the discussion just goes on and on and on ad infinitum.

Runequest is a fantasy roleplaying game that came out in **1978** and solved all this shit for fuck sake. If you wanted crunchier shit you played that, or Harn(1986) or Rolemaster(1980) if you wanted silly heroic fantasy you played AD&D.

I'm not in love with fantasycraft, but I do really like a lot of what it does

it "fixes" magic by letting only 1 class do it, and has very limited spell points per *scene* (not day), and the spells are more or less toned down to avoid abuse. This class (mage) has a ton of spell points and can be the face and the traps/locks guy of the party in addition to being the nerd. Also, casters need all mental attributes, not just one (and CHA is the save DC stat). Priests also get spells, but only a few, and only once or twice per day for each one.

Each character has a species, a specialty, and a class. Specialties are pic-related. Classes are:

Assassin, burglar, captain, courtier, explorer, keeper, lancer, mage, priest, sage, scout, soldier. Then there are prestige classes that focus more on a particular theme. The soldier is the most focused on combat, and is what a fighter would be in fantasycraft; they DOMINATE combat. Everybody else, with a couple exceptions, is pretty good as well, just not as good. Only the lancer and soldier have full bab, and only the strongest monsters do; 3/4 is standard.

The way FC is set up, basically anybody can do anything. Nobody can cast like a mage; at best they dabble. Nobody will match a focused soldier in a fight, nobody can face like a courtier. But you could be a soldier who fills the face slot, or a burglar who fills the melee specialist spot, and so on, and most classes are broadly built. Specialties are what help you specialize in your theme, so you don't have to be a scout or a soldier to be a good archer, you just pick the archer specialty (but scout and soldier archers are most optimized). Everybody claims the game is very well balanced and each class is a good choice, but I have no play experience and I can see the imbalances, so I dunno how true that is. I do know that a mage will suck at physical combat, even if he specializes in it.

mainly, in relevance to this thread, fantasycraft has tons more non-magic options for damn near everything
(my beef with the game is that everything is way too meta for my tastes, this is especially true when it comes to combat options)
every class (except the mage and to some extent the priest) is based on mundane stuff; you either take levels in one of the two magic classes or you take a prestige class that involved magic in some way (like the "rune knight"; attach magic effects to your weapon and cast a few spells yourself), if you want to use some magic

anybody can make magic items (via feats)

doing all of this, while still having shit like teleport and summon monster and hydras and dragons and blah blah blah, makes for a better game, I think. I do love D&D, but it's too magic focused to do what it aims to do.

>and the WoD mold

...Nope. Fighty characters in WoD can have access to a lot of powerful abilities, and are usually much better than the more mystic dudes when it comes to battle.

The 3.Pathfinder problem is that casters are both better in and out of combat than any other class, and physical fighters have highly limited options. This isn't at all true for WoD.

ThePruld is a treasure and you should watch his stuff.

Martialcucks genuinely deserve to be herded into a gas chamber en masse.
All they ever do is whine and bitch and whenever you suggest changing something about how martials work they will actually sperg out and being squealing about caster supremacy, even if the proposed change is just to make the game make more sense. If you dare to even hint at the notion that a martial ability might be ridiculous or overpowered they immediately start screeching about how a wizard can do the same thing but better, so they deserve to be able to literally scream something to death and stunlock everything around them, like some gay-ass anime, just because a wizard can cast mass hold person. Oh but because wizards can do other things, that means the ability should have no save. And they should also be able to intimidate everything, AND be master crafters, AND be able to fly, AND be able to literally throw houses because "muh greek demigods, hercules was just a 20th level fighter" bullshit. Martialfucks are on the tier of the worst minority reparations activists. They are so caught up in their victim complex, that they can no longer see anything else. They want to completely ruin the game due to something from 2 editions ago, that triggered them so hard that they simply cannot let go of it. Not only should martials be on par with casters, they should be BETTER than casters, to make up for past misdeeds. Martials should be able to do whatever they want, whenever they want, because casters can! It's not like spell slots exist. A wizard can do literally anything he wants, shitlord! Why are you against us being as strong as the whit- I mean, wizards?
Martialcucks are so pathetic they actually need to resort to turning themselves INTO casters to satisfy their subconscious urging to be spellcasters.

Yet they are so desperate to prove themselves as "real men" who play fighters (not casters, which are for weakling nerds who fantasized about casting magic missile on their bullies, and they are totally not like that, right?) that they want to remain muscle-wizards however they can. Even if it means basically becoming spellcasters (as in 4e, where martials functioned like spellcasters did in earlier editions). They convince themselves that they are happy scratching out boxes on their sheet, or leaving dice and tokens everywhere to track which once-per-day abilities they have used so far, or else pushing their glasses further up the bridge of their nose and squinting at some character sheet phone app, all to "add resource management to the game" and "be more tactical" with the same arbitrary metagame narrative "choices" that make them feel like they are master strategists. When in reality, they are just choosing when and where to blow their load. It's the same with 5e battlemaster fighter. Which is actually a good class. But it's not good enough for martial cucks. Where is muh crafting? Where is muh stunning scream and being able to literally fly from sheer rage, because Goku and Naturo do that, and they're martials! They are martials! These fuckers want so desperately to be some superhero just to keep up with the broken powergaming munchkin fucks in 3.5, that they want to not only destroy their class' identity but also destroy the tone of fantasy to the point it becomes some kind of sad pathetic superhero comedy movie. All so that they can feel "equal." Because RPGs are a competition, and they are so damn insecure that they cannot stand to be "losing."

Saved

>When in reality, they are just choosing when and where to blow their load

That's literally what resource management means.

>playing a class based sytem
There's your problem.

>d&d is created and get famous
>its the first rpg so (since its famous) you have all those extreme amount of rpg players with different point of view of how a rpg should be, playing the exact same rpg
>after some amount of time playing some players discover some stuff they think are flaws, while discover some rules they think are really awesome
>because they have very different views on what a rpg should be (despise playing the exact same rpg), what some guy think is a good idea wont be considered a good idea by the other player, what some consider a shitty idea will be considered a good idea by other rpg player
>new system is made based at this enviroment, and create a mess of a rpg system.
>many of those players quickly jump into the new system, expecting fixed to what they think are flaws
>because the players have very different opinions on what rpg should be (despise playing the same exact system), what is a flaw to some is a fix to another, and what is a fix to another is a flaw to someone. So the system CAN'T be fixed.
>all those extreme amount of players quickly jumping to this new system, bring new (to rpg) players to the new d&d system
>this make the game have an extreme amount of rpg players with different point of view of how a rpg should be, playing the exact same rpg
>because they have very different views on what a rpg should be (despise playing the exact same rpg), what some guy think is a good idea wont be considered a good idea by the other player, what some consider a shitty idea will be considered a good idea by other rpg
>new system is made based at this enviroment, and create a mess of a rpg system. No one knows what the system/d&d is suposed to be, because it was created based on a mess.
>the story continue ad infinitum

´p

No, because 3.PF has a number of "Improved Fighter" classes. If you want to complain about specifically the fighter, you'd be beating a horse that's been dead for nearly twenty years, and only the dumbest of faggots would be that fucking lame.

>just playing better games

Oh wait, you're one of those dumbest of faggots. Whoops.

>Runequest mold
Well, that's pretty dumb.
Why would you play a pure martial in a system where literally everybody is encouraged to pick up some form of magic?
And even the, "Longsword to the face" is a pretty lethal condition for every character at any point during play.

can't make up this level of autism.
But i'm pretty sure it's pasta.

>d&d is the only relevant RPg
sure buddy
someone is clearly a gen Zer

Wheel of time rules, everyone who can't throw a fireball gets a private army and a stable marriage.

It's still crap.

>tfw play high level fighting-man
>tfw can wield magic sword that never misses when thrown, returns to my hand when called, and records all my deeds in epic Homeric prose
>tfw wear armor made of a legendary lion's hide--a creature I personally choked to death--that makes me invulnerable to non-magical weapons
>tfw my skills and martial reflexes and agility have been heightened to such a degree that I can never be hit with a spell, never fall into a trap, never get caught by the husband whose wife I'm banging (and probably kidnapping)
>tfw my constitution and fortitude is so great I can imbibe the deadliest poisons without fainting, bear the harshest pain without flinching, endure the worst starvation and thirst and exhaustion without so much as a single groan
>tfw my will is unbreakable
>tfw that in all this, that though some would sing of me as a god, and some follow me to battle and even to death with pride, I am still a man. Mortal and uncorrupted.

>tfw I'm a Mary Sue
Might as well be a caster then.