It's generally agreed upon that in D&D magic casters are much more powerful than fighters...

>Someone once had the idea of 500 isis soldiers fighting 500 level 1 pathfinder wizards.
So you had them fight against dragon eggs basically.

You'd think it was by the collosal amount of shit posting about how broken casters are supposedly meant to be.

In reality there's only some issues past level 10, which most groups don't reach anyway. Heck even Gygax and the original tsr guys would retire characters at level 10.

Currently running a campaign where the players just hit level 13. We have a druid, a cleric and a fighter.

The difference is noticeable. Overstated, but its there. I had to chuck some nice items and divine blessings at the fighter so that he could still do some cool shit out of combat too.

That being said, he does monstrous damage.

>In reality there's only some issues past level 10
Try level 5. For fuck's sake, do you even own the rulebook, let alone read the rules?

What? In 5e there is no gap. There isn't even a recognizable gap in Pathfinder until you hit 4th level spells, which most user have never done.

5e fighter is a murder machine that can smack-down a balor that will full->0 a wizard 100% of the time in 5e. It's almost a callback to OD&D.

Well memed, friend.

>What? In 5e there is no gap. There isn't even a recognizable gap in Pathfinder until you hit 4th level spells, which most user have never done.
Oh boy, another blind 3aboo pretending that caster supremacy doesn't exist. Can't wait to can't and see how 20 Level 1 goblins can merk a Level 10 mage, until they can't and suddenly it escalates to 48 Level 1 goblins being fought in a row for 21 encounters straight and shit.

Seriously, this shit has been a thing for over a decade, you might as well be trying to explain why the sky isn't actually blue during high noon.

I personally think the issues arise around level 7-11, but never earlier. Depending on splatbook in 3.x, that's when your hp is high enough and you have enough spells that ignore saves. Before that, an opponent making a save could be your immediate end.

That's the part about quadratic that morons don't get, it starts weaker, but gets stronger then a lot stronger.

Of course, most Veeky Forums posters are incapable of playing a wizard even half as competently as they complain about, but that's how the internet goes.

See As someone running a campaign at those levels, there is a gap. The fighter is a murder machine in combat, but any semi-intelligent creature (or one with magic) can shut him down fairly easily.

Wizards with spells on sd cards

That honestly just sounds like their roles working and not a gap user. How smart is your fighter player? Has he ever asked you why you skimp on magic items for the group?

>Skimp on magic items
I really don't. Honestly, I think I'm a tad too generous with them. What I object to is that pretty much all of the fighter's utility comes from shit I've put in the world, rather from the cool stuff his class provides.

>How smart is your fighter player?
Probably one of the smarter ones, but they all play pretty solidly.

The issue is that he's used more like a tool in combat. He doesn't make many decisions, he just pressures the enemy by trying to get into range to murderfuck them, leaving me (as the villains) trying to think up ways of shutting him down while still keeping things fun (their last villain had access to planeshift, which started to get pretty unfun pretty fast). Honestly, even hold person fucks him up at this point. It just doesn't make for very interesting gameplay from either end.

>Hold person fucks him up
That does the same to literally everyone?

Also, they're 13th level, but you complained about having to give them suitable magic items so I'm really not sure what your view on magic items is.

>That does the same to literally everyone?
Apart from people with counterspells and dispels and decent wisom (which is the rest of the party), yeah, I guess.

>not sure what your view on magic items is
I like making them, I like giving them out. I like giving players an extra dimension of things they can do with their character, and finding ways to make their gameplay more interesting with items.
I do not like it when those 'extra dimensions' I add turn into the only dimensions the character has. It honestly feels like the fighter is playing some homebrew class I've made because all his cool shit comes from items he's conveniently 'found', whilst all his actual class does is increase his damage by a bit every now and then.

>That does the same to literally everyone?
Unless you're a caster, then you have options to unfuck yourself or unfuck a member of the party, whether that be a Dispel Magic in your back pocket or a high ass Wisdom.
>Also, they're 13th level, but you complained about having to give them suitable magic items so I'm really not sure what your view on magic items is.
Not him but one is an ability that everyone who takes X levels in a class receive and the other is generally only given out at the DM's leisure, to the point where you could theoretically go an entire campaign without seeing so much as a +1 weapon if the DM decides that magic items are going to be rare as fuck for that particular campaign.

Which is why nobody likes referencing magic items in these particular debates, because what types of magic items you receive and how powerful they are will be determined by the DM while the spells you receive and how powerful they are will generally be based on your caster level.

>How so? I'm genuinely curious.
PS: My isis character had 3 (out of 20) skill at his guns
>my isis character see himself lost at the desert
>he see some guy with strange clothing and try to talk with him
>the wizard see my unusual weapons, get scared and start to run.
>I run closer to the wizard to ask him directions
>he get really scared and start to get his crossbow
>my isis character that is holding his ak47 see that point at wizard aim and shoot before the wizard can do anything.
>if I remember the shot went to the wizard liver and he died.

I would continue the game, but decided I wanted to use another magic system other than d&d ones, spend some time thinking about magic systems to use, but them, never came back to continue it.

The DMing was made with mythic solo roleplaying, but I made a mistake while DMing, I decreased the chaos ranking everytime I got a no at an question, this is not how the rule works, chaos rank is modified at the end of each scene not at the end of each question

While writing this, something came into my mind.

Would real life current era soldiers be able to fight against level 20 3.5 D&D truenamers? They are usually considered shitty as hell.

One thing I forgot.
Some phoenix command book has crossbow stats, I compared it with 3.5 crossbow to create some sort of convertion, to magic damage and etc....
This was not used as the wizard died before casting the spells

London

So the wizard is retarded and tried to use a crossbow instead of a single spell? Against a gun? Gee I wonder why the Isis fighters won

>So the wizard is retarded and tried to use a crossbow instead of a single spell? Against a gun? Gee I wonder why the Isis fighters won
Complain with the dice, I asked if the wizard would cast a spell, rolled and it said no

Does it hurt being that stupid?

>will the wizard use his abilities? Nah he'd just stand there and get shot, the dice told him so

Alright

In all likehood, a wizard, an alchemist or an artificier would have invented guns as an easier and cheaper way to cast or boost spells. After all, they are the main sources of innovation. In all likehood, it would have begun with fireball throwing artillery and later experimented on less experienced mages followed by muggles.

...

Not only that, but (at least in early editions) there is this thing called spell components.
When you have a single pinch of sulfur and bat guano, you arent shooting fireballs like a machinegun, you save that shit.
Id also like to point out that ive been playing AD&D for well over 2 decades, and this martial vs caster shit never came up until you 3.pf fags ruined what was a generally decent game.
Modern d20 is a cancer of a system

No. Gary knew fighters sucked compared to magic bois. That's why fighters kept getting more stuff in 2e.

Don't forget, every big bad in D&D has been a caster, never a Fighter.

That alone should tell you where they stand.

D&D is a shit idea anyway you slice it. The reason the classes can never be balanced is because they are just character archetypes from all the different fantasy sources d&d pulls from.

The wizards, and subsiquently the entire magic system, are from The Dying Earth. A setting where practisioners of magic are invincible technocrats, kept in check only by their peers and everyone else is left to farm dirt and wallow in obscurity.

Every other class (with the exception of monks, which are standard wuxia type characters meant to appease weebs) is taken from other famous fantasy media, like LotR, where martial capability carries a character further since magic is minamal and practical application is relatively obscure.

D&D can never have true cohesion between it's different facets because it's designed to be a Frankenstein's monster of a product that can have minimal appeal to everyone by sacrificing deapth and thought.

No, not at all. Truenamers are shitty by D&D standards because it's virtually impossible for them to fight their own CR after low levels. Against CR 1-3 enemies, Truenamers would curbstomp them, and that's without using the spammable Gate they get access to at high levels.

I see the "have you tried not playing D&D" meme in every thread the issue is brought up in, but haven't seen very many solutions put forward. The group I am DMing just got a recent addition and he's a rather experienced player who's going to be playing a wizard. Naturally, this has me pretty spooked and I already ramped up the difficulty and added in some lead-lined walls, antimagic field generators, antimage enemies, and spell resistant monsters. Is there a system, apart from the early D&D editions, that has a rather narrow gap between martials and casters? Most of my group are new but are open to playing something else after we're done with this adventure.

>Is there a system, apart from the early D&D editions, that has a rather narrow gap between martials and casters?
4e

Every thread someone asks this question and the answer, if you want to stick to the D&D brand, will always be 4e, especially after they released MM3.

Take this .pdf, read up on the online resources that 4e has available to help out with character creation, and have a good time. I'd also recommend reading up on the DMG as well, since it's pretty good for easing new DM's in constructing encounters as well.

Hope this helps.

fpbp

Also, here's the math for MM3 as well on a business card.

Thanks, m8. If it isn't too much trouble, could you recommend any non-D&D systems? I already lifted and homebrewed plenty of mechanics and having a few more good systems for reference wouldn't hurt.

Sure, as far as the games I've played and enjoyed and games that I've heard flying around here, you can try Burning Wheel, Shadow of the Demon Lord, Mutants&Masterminds, etc.

Honestly though, the disparity between martials and casters is decidely a 3.PF (and 5e to a lesser extent) thing, so you generally won't run into any major issues if you play something that isn't (those editions of) D&D.

Are we assuming that there is no wizard who will support us fighting another wizard?

>Does it hurt being that stupid?
Its mythic solo roleplaying, obvious stuff will have a chance higher than 0 of not being selected, I got that to every spell the wizard had

5e gap is not as pronounced as in 3e, but is still there (and more pronounced than in every D&D edition except 3e).
In PF the gap is extremely noticeable even at 1st level.