CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>Anybody got that stake Rote on hand?

I assume this is what you are thinking of.

>Beasts: Player Guide

Who cares.

>Demons: Enemy Action

Should be released sometime today according to the Monday Meeting Notes.

Ah, you're mistaken. p151

Same as before but ritual time. Nobody can ever explain "why it sucks now" other than wildly making things up.

how about we start with the fact that it says they can't be controlled? HURR

citation needed user

link that fucking page number..

Vamps are by default in the vein of things like the beguiler, thrallherd and dread necro, with the exception that almost nothing has mind control immunity.

Not to mention the tier list isn't wholly based off pvp like these jerkoff sessions are

Yep. Thanks.

your journey begins with WtF 2e core young disciple
go forth and read and become (slightly) less retarded

then argue that "they cannot be brought to heel like a common spirit" means "oh but it just says 'like a common spirit,' I can still control them with ES xD"

prometheans are lonely hobos so that's easy
beasts work well with everything
mummy could be 'they're in the mummies' cult' for example

I read the text searched www3 using idigam and not once did it say its immune to spirit magic.

>Both Formless and Coalesced are immune to supernatural powers that would command them, master them, or reshape their abilities, whether from Gifts, rites, or the witchcraft of other beings. The idigam can be bound or forced into dormancy, but they can never simply be leashed like a dog and forced into obedience. Their ancient, ever-flowing Essence simply shrugs off any such attempts to chain them to docility.
Ah found it for you, p216

Happy now?

>The idigam can be bound or forced into dormancy

So raped to sleep by spirit magic.

Spirit 2 "slumber" means idigam a non issue.

WW's big bad are a non threat to a spirit mage. Just like Vamps BB is vs a death mage.

Sure, if... you catch it asleep. Did you actually read the spell?

Not entirely related, but in Imperial Mysteries an example is given of a Tetrarch (Seer Archmage) being ordered by an Exarch to bind an idigam. The Imperial Spell the Tetrarch casts prevents the idigam from using Numina.

In any case, the idigam are pretty much abominations and imo an ST would be fully justified in saying "No" to most Spirit spells cast on them.

yes, Idigams arnt immune to all spirit magic, just trying to control them.

So spirit mages still have a slighly harder time dealing with them compared to other spirits but Invoke Ban, Gossamer touch, howl etc all work vs idigams just like vs other spirits so they still pretty vulnerable.

>slightly harder
It means they can, you know, engage them.

These threads have extreme problems with any notion of nuance (ie. everything is totally binary always winning or always losing, examples of mage PCs or antagonists that experience any difficulty or failure cause frantic AUTISTIC SCREECHING fits absolutely 100% of the time).

An idigam fetish could be a pretty neat prize, not fully sure how they work in nwod.

The threads have extreme problems with people assuming mages are retards and just wander about blissfully unaware or unprepared.

Not really, total preparation for all contingencies and the mage having element of surprise is by far the norm.

Fallible players or STs portraying mages as doing anything but winning, however, ALWAYS causes a screeching, ululating shitstorm.

The stake rote was pretty funny, still.

>Life 3, Matter 3, Forces 3. You conjure a perfect cut of meat, transforming a nearby piece of wood into flesh. The steak is immaculately well done, with a crunchy outside and slathered in A-1 sauce converted from the wood's sap.

Although, I'm not sure if you really need forces for itl

If your paradigm is "being psychic" you'd need mind 3 too.

I sense so much unstated hatred, where did the goatboy touch you?

>M20

No hatred, Ascension stopped being good after 2e. Which is when i stopped caring.

Awakening 1e-2e is superior in every way.

In Awakening could you run a Prime Unveiling spell instead of active mage sight to see magic as it's being cast? Or would you still have to run active sight for counter spells?

Similarly, could you run a shielding spell to resist nimbus tilts?

yes. Prime is the shit on other mages arcane

in nwod, are cattle prods a thing, mechanically?

>father's cock
What is the context here?

What were the changes from 2e to Revised that made you dislike it so much?

I'd just use the stats for a Stun-Gun.

Not him, but I personally despise vulgar magick becoming suicidal, since its a fluff/RP decision rather than a game balance one.

>cue FROZEN METEORS OF PERIOD BLOOD user going "but its the only thing keeping mages from blowing up the planet"

It went from being "FUCK YEH IM A MAGE" to "Shit we lost, now im just some dude like in highway to heaven" hobo'ing around.

basically the avatar storm was shit. Ascension IS about flying airships in void space and running riot on mars. Getting rid of the crazy shit was fucking dull.

I don't think Revised was badly written, but I think it was a lot more low-key and limiting. I'm really into Umbra adventures and high magick stuff, so Revised cutting that out was a little bit of a letdown.

Granted, Revised lets you cheese pretty well, a lot better than 2e. For one, at Life 3, you can potentially do a ritual that gets 20 successes and then permanently rewrite your own pattern so that having high attributes doesn't cause leakage.

Both today apparently. Waiting on that Promethean: The Tormented

Removal of Horizon Realms was quite possibly the gayest metaplot element ever.

I prefer to have Threat Null simply be weird technocratic archmages becoming umbrood or anakim.

Rape.

>For one, at Life 3, you can potentially do a ritual that gets 20 successes and then permanently rewrite your own pattern so that having high attributes doesn't cause leakage.
Still would give you Permanent Paradox and Paradox rules are particularly nasty.

Is it permadox per dot or per effect?

Prometheans would happily work with other spats but depending on how the Disquiet works with other supernaturals it'll probably be the worst partner, considering they could send others into frenzy, cause issues with paradox etc.

NPC prometheans can definitely be a hassle but PC prometheans should basically all start on Plumbum or Stannum.

Spit lightning and stop disquiet, what's not to like?

Select the PC's base of operations as a hovel and you basically have bypassed all the drawbacks of being a Promethean once you get the power to keep generators from breaking.

Today's gonna be so good.

Same here, can't wait for new zekys.

One of the PCs is getting a message from an anonymous source this session that says "fyi: this is watching you"

dot

That's fucking lame. Is it like that with 2e?

>fucking lame! why won't the game let me walk around permanently with 30 dots in each Physical trait!

>you get permadox despite it not necessarily being vulgar in certain paradigms
>you, a Life Mage, have to arbitrarily put up with the fact that two points over Strength 5 earns two permadox, rather than a permadox per effect
>meanwhile, multiple devices weaved into you doesn't add permadox at nearly the same rate,

such a shame that printing free attributes has drawbacks

>meanwhile, multiple devices weaved into you doesn't add permadox at nearly the same rate,

Why would it? Technocrats not only suffer from more foci and more burdensome foci, but also permanent points of paradox for no benefit.

>suffer from more burdensome foci
>most of the Technocracy's foci is immediately coincidental because the population is more willing to believe top secret super-weapons than magic rocks
>plasma cannons are considered coincidental in mundane laboratories
>you only get 1 paradox point at most for even grander actions unless you botch
>somehow, wanting attribute increases to be based on effect than dot is bad

>What's the most important part of chapter outlines for your pirate setting?
>Making sure your writers know that straight white guys are a no-no

Why do they talk about "people" but as soon as it switches to lgbt it's "folks"? It's a weird stylistic choice that I keep seeing often in certain style of writing lately, seems unprofessional

Here's the problem, ludicrously burdensome techie paradigms are only remotely useful when you compare it to the most painfully retarded and clunky other paradigms, ie the Order of Hermes, which is fully aware that they waste their apprentices' time on useless classes about absolutely nothing and have a paradigm that wasn't that great even at its height.

>you only get 1 paradox point at most for even grander actions unless you botch

unless its Revised, and keep in mind that as of Revised, GttT fluff is in play, meaning the majority of Technocrats are too stupid to know about paradox, and any vulgar magick is a death sentence in Revised. So you wasted all that time and effort learning a clunky, useless paradigm that will almost certainly kill you as soon as you leave the lab.

>somehow, wanting attribute increases to be based on effect than dot is bad

I give myself +30 to stats for 1-5 paradox xDDDD

>meanwhile, multiple devices weaved into you doesn't add permadox at nearly the same rate,
what edition and book reference? because in M20 it's 1:1 rate

>somehow, wanting attribute increases to be based on effect than dot is bad
you won't even receive paradox if it's kept within the bounds of human possibility (you can be a prime human specimen with 5 dext/5 strength and 5 stamina), if you push beyond to the area of radical alterations your patterns will trigger resistence from the Consensus because humans are just not meant to be that strong; that has been the case of millions of years (just like you take 1 permanent paradox for every lifetime you go above what humans live, rather than 1 definite permanent paradox for existing outside of a mortal's normal lifespan no matter how old you are)

then you have to ask yourself "why doesn't the technocrat send out victors and hit marks with +10 to every stat?" Let me guess, because NPCs are retards and your PC is the first person in the setting to think "maybe I should boost my stats.." "yeah?" "a LOT" "WHOA MIND BLOWN"

Seriously none of the people who want to make mages into GODS have thought the ramifications through.

>'Guide to the Technocracy is Revised!!!'
>Guide to the Technocracy is 2e
>'le 30 stats for 1-5 paradox'
>doesn't take into account unweaving
>doesn't take into account attributes meaning jack and shit in Mage in general
>doesn't take into account that it's ritual magick so more prone to bad paradox
>doesn't take into account the effect is vulgar anyway which will earn you an extra point of paradox
>thinks this makes Mages OP
I can tell you're a Vampfag.

The Technocracy ARE retards, though.

Spoilers: I played Iteration X for years, long enough to go through the process of eventually having an apprentice that had the power armor instead of cybernetics preference and who became a gay Son of Ether anyway.

>'Guide to the Technocracy is Revised!!!'

My post clearly says "as of revised." Derp.

>doesn't take into account unweaving

which is harder if you pile on a gorillion more successes, derp

>doesn't take into account attributes meaning jack and shit in Mage in general

Great, so you should have no problem.

>doesn't take into account that it's ritual magick so more prone to bad paradox

Get good. Christ.

I'd never deny that, but generally any basic exploit PCs use can and will be used by the Technocracy against them, albeit in a shittier, clunkier fashion.

>as of revised
>implying everyone plays Revised
>implying anyone plays Revised
>'wow so many successes makes unweaving harder, so unbalanced!'
>having an issue that attribute buffing is unnecessarily gimped compared to everything else in the setting is wrong
>'get good' with dice rolls where any single botch on an effect means you're eating 20 points of paradox
>pattern leakage wasn't already a sufficient drawback

It's actually unbelievable that vampfags are so desperate that they'll roleplay as magefags to spew literal bullshit on a game they haven't played.

It's pretty clear the main 3 splats (Vampire/Werewolf/Mage) the idea is that the PCs are supposed to be out of the norm and are supposed to go out of their way to be innovators. I don't get where all this "MUH DON'T DISRESPECT MUH NPCS" shit comes from.

You do realize that a Beast in a multisplat group is a Beast that wouldn't need to feed on fear, right? Every time the Changeling harvests glamour or a Mage gains an arcane beat the Beast gets fed.

>'wow so many successes makes unweaving harder, so unbalanced!'

You were the retard who brought up unweaving as being somehow relevant.

>'get good' with dice rolls where any single botch on an effect means you're eating 20 points of paradox

Would you prefer I said "become less shit" or would you prefer I said "read up on probabilities?"

>pattern leakage wasn't already a sufficient drawback

Not proportionate to the amount boosted so it sucks.

All this from the guy who is furious at the prospect of not getting to stockpile arbitrarily high stats... while simultaneously saying "its n-not like I wanted arbitrarily high stats anyway."

How tsundere!

It sure isn't "disrespect my NPCs," its "if PCs use extremely uncreative, boring methods to become gods that any antagonist can do, antagonists will do it too."

Especially when two conventions largely center around becoming/creating ubermenschen anyway.

The reverse is also nice too, the Promethean Elpis (sp?) of Fear has got to be one of the easiest to satisfy, and debatably, a Beast could feed off it (Elpis/Torment seems to be a closer analog for feeding than "sticking a fork in an electric socket").

Family Dinner is pretty much strictly 1-2 satiety a scene no matter what, right?

>muh big success spells are so imba!
You can stack unweaving successes too, vampfag.
>muh 'just learn how to throw the dice correctly and you'll win everytime'
Read up on probabilities. Most of the time it will be a vulgar effect, so you're very likely of eating a lot of Paradox if you botch.
>muh pattern leakage is underpowered
Pattern Leakage in 2e explicitly says you cannot heal it through magickal means. You have to wait months for the health levels to recover, or you become a Thaumivore.

All this over someone who has an issue with a Life Mage walking around with +6 at best in his attributes. All this over a vampfag scared that a specialised and lucky Mage in a separate gameline might be able to arm wrestle him really effectively.

"I-I play Mage, honest!"

Have Magefags moved on from shitposting about Awakening 2e to shitposting about Ascension? Wow, when you thought it couldn't get worse.

>You can stack unweaving successes too, vampfag.

You have yet to explain in what given situation bullying a mage by unweaving him is a better move than doing whatever it was you were going to do in the first place.

>or you become a Thaumivore.

The poor baby. Having to feed on the most common substance in the entire universe, found in actual garbage, just to survive... and again, in a way not tied to how much they're boosted.

>All this over someone who has an issue with a Life Mage walking around with +6 at best in his attributes.

Don't try to backpedal now, its a lot more. 5 in all stats isn't good enough for you. This whole element of crying over your character being nerfed never occurred to me the entire time I played owod.

How are your games going?

Sorta. A guy started screeching about how he can no longer get +whatever to his stats and is, as happens every time someone tries to discuss mage, accusing everyone who differs from him of being a magefag.

I wonder how demon players will react when DtF20 comes out, calling everyone who likes the new version angelfags?

What edition (either owod or cofd) are mages the strongest?

>Family Dinner is pretty much strictly 1-2 satiety a scene no matter what, right?
Probably not because it is likely there wouldn't be a chance every scene. The Beast would still be feeding a lot more than it usually would.

One big advantage though is a Beast who lives off Family Dinner can safely and easily reach Satiety 9 without worrying about hitting 10.

>unweaving
>using other Effects that don't take attributes into account (I send you to the Sun)
Unweaving is just one example if you're really butthurt about a Mage having high attributes.
>most common substance in the universe
Oh yeah, that's why the Traditions/Technocracy don't jealously hoard Nodes and hunt for Tass. My mistake, I didn't realise it was so easy to involve in your pattern.
>Don't try to backpedal now
Unless you're willing to share the secret to how you role about 10 successes straight and never botch, fuck off.

Well, I have 14+ NPCs to write up before next session.

I'm starting a game next week, based in Cold War Russia

>Making sure your writers know that straight white guys are a no-no
White people not being the default feels like persecution to you? First world problems.

>Unweaving is just one example if you're really butthurt about a Mage having high attributes.

Then why'd you bring it up in the first place?

>Oh yeah, that's why the Traditions/Technocracy don't jealously hoard Nodes and hunt for Tass.

I'm not here to justify the setting in light of the rules, I'm here to educate you on the rules. Its not by my choice that you need Prime to do jack shit, and that the line between being able to do anything ever and reclaiming quintessence from everything is paper thin. If you're going to be a Technocrat at all, you probably want wonders, and if you make wonders, you're probably not far from some manner of unlimited quintessence generation.

>Unless you're willing to share the secret to how you role about 10 successes straight and never botch

anydice dot com is your friend, user. Fucking Christ.

>Why'd you bring up a legitimate counter?
Why are you mad that I brought up a legitimate counter?
>I'm not here to justify the setting, i'm here to educate you on my poor interpretation of the rules and setting
Wonders are things from Revised and we've already established that we aren't talking about Revised. Derp
>if you determine the probability, you can automatically change dice results in future just by knowing the probability.
user...

So wheres enemy action?

CofD, mostly. OWoD in some weird, select areas.

I wonder how vampfags will react to v5

>"reeee it's requiem all over again reeee"

>Why are you mad that I brought up a legitimate counter?

Aiming for 30+ successes is not a "viable counter" user.

>Wonders are things from Revised and we've already established that we aren't talking about Revised.

You know perfectly well that prime is used for talismans in all editions.

And no, if you look at the probability, you can figure out exactly what your risk and reward ratios is.

All this because... free 5s aren't good enough for you.

>aiming for 30 successes is not a viable counter
>but getting 30 successes for the spell itself is viable and not risky

What's wrong with requiem?

Correct, boosting someone's stats in the comfort of your moon basement is a lot more realistic than attempting to unweave 30 successes in their presence.

And if your desperate hope is to do everything with Corr cheese then you don't need 30+ successes to fuck someone up with that.

And if it sucks so badly, it still doesn't explain why it upsets you that you can't do it.

>correspondence 2 is cheese
>+30 in attributes is overpowered when it's convenient to my point, but underpowered when it's convenient to my point

Well, like Requiem or hate it, but it already exists. So there's that.

But I'm willing to wait and see. The only v5 I'm actually optimistic about is Mage.

Oshit. Uhhh, n-nothing. Your game is perfectly not stale and not atrociously boring in any way! I was joking. Yeah...

>but underpowered when it's convenient to my point

Its not underpowered at all.

Its hard to get more stale and stagnant than Masquerade, a game primarily about everyone who isn't a stagnant fossil is either a pleb or was given power by an aforementioned stagnant fossil's MASTER PLAN.

Why don't you dumb faggots ever shut up