I've got a great idea, how about we price our miniatures based on their effectiveness in the game...

You hit the nail right on the fucking head. I have a good (slightly normalfag) friend who got sucked into the story a year ago and was really excited until he realized the price tag. Without new blood like him I don't know how this game is going to survive since the vets sure as hell aren't paying as much as they used to.

>knights are expensive
>almost completely useless
???

>Do they not realize how many more people would play and how much more profit they would make if they didn't charge full-retard prices for shit?

They most likely know what their target audience is willing to pay far better than you do.

If you want to build a small army that will shit on everyone else and also have constant new model castings and units added, go Ultramarines. It's GW's Mary Sue faction and is ridiculously overpowered, much to the hatred of literally everyone else. Ultramarine players (Space Marine players in general desu) are usually the kids that you would play with on the playground where you would hit them with your stick/sword and tell them they're dead, and then they would say "nuh uh because I have a super golden steel armor plate that reflects all damage back at you, so you're dead!" They're cunts.

What is your mindset? I mean you'd think browsing Veeky Forums and seeing the 40k players complaining about the game and trolling each other 24/7 would make you leery of the game.

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>not just downloading the pdf of whatever edition you and friends would have the most fun playing
>not buying models from literally anyone else and just play with those
>complaining about something on a polynesian scrimshaw image board instead of finding a solution

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Their stock price has literally quadrupled in the past two years and now costs like $2,000 a share, they're clearly doing something right. You can attribute that to their licensing of Total War Warhammer and shit (which has certainly helped a lot), but I don't think they're in danger of dying anytime soon. Yeah there aren't as many new players as there used to be, but I guess the current fans are dedicated enough to keep it going. I think they're going to be fucked before too long here though if they don't do something, there's just too many people that are put off on the cost of entry ($300-$400 to build an unpainted, small army for tiny games is ridiculous).

why don't you try some xenos then ? like the Tau
the 8th edition made them super duper grimdark

tau are boring as fuck to play

How so? I haven't played 40k in a few years but as far as I remember the only grimdark thing about the Tau was that they're basically all mind controlled by the ones in the robes.

Which actually kinda pissed me off when they added that. I know everyone complained that the Tau were "too good" when they were released, but I liked it. You need a little break from all the grimdark shit every now and then. Chaos is objectively evil, so why can't there be at least one objectively good faction?

>t. chest-thumping guard brainlet who doesn't know how to play without just zerg rushing tanks and meat shields during assault phase

Are Dark Eldar any good to play? Or are they still "Fast and fragile"?

I'm looking at this image, thinking "Objectively this is bullshit. It's a travesty. It violates the principles of what a Space Marine is and should be"
But deep down I'm not angry. Instead I just want to fuck the rabbit

>You need a little break from all the grimdark shit every now and then.

That's why other setting exist.

>WICH IS FUCKING BULLSHIT

How?

If things are pure shit 100% of the time it get's tiring.
Grimdark is at it's best when there are sprinkles of honest good here and there to add context to all the horrible shit that happens around you.

well apparently during the 4th sphere of expansion ( the one that got stuck in the warp and spat out in every corner of the galaxy) the tau just slaughtered any other xenos that tried to resist and more but the high command punished them, and now they don't use auxiliaries anymore
WICH IS FUCKING BULLSHIT
FUCKING.
BULLSHIT.

i mean the tau got the speciality of actually having xenos allies and technological progress
now they have retarded suit (Stormsurge) and they don't use aux's anymore
here is the full post

Why shouldn't it exist? Having everything be terrible and shitty isn't interesting. Why the fuck should I care at all about the 40k setting if it's a terrible existence no matter who "wins?" Why should I care about the defense against the Chaos hordes if I know that everything will just be destroyed anyways? The grimdark shit works best when you know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, a little kernel of something truly good trying to fight against impossible odds to triumph over evil. That's why I was pretty psyched about the lore when I heard that the Ultrasmurf patriarch was back and all that lore shit about the Emperor's chair being about to fail. It gives people a vague notion that just maybe the Imperium would be restored to the original vision of the Emperor

The lore obviously doesn't matter for gameplay purposes, I just think it makes the setting more interesting when there's at least one or two "good guys" and one or two "bad guys."

Nah, 40k doesn't occur in a vacuum.
Contrast comes from out of setting real life cultural norms and values.
Internal contrast only weakens the setting.

>You know damn well that I didn't literally mean that two models cost the same as one model. I mean that you just charge for what the person is getting, in terms of the quality of the models, not just how they perform on the field.
They aren't priced based on how they perform - they're priced based on how they expect them sell. Models that they expect to sell lots of can be priced lower than models they expect to sell more of. This is why elite units and characters are priced higher.

>Why shouldn't it exist?

>and now they don't use auxiliaries anymore
Wait, WHAT?! I just checked GW's website and they're still selling Kroot and shit, are you fucking serious that they're going to stop? God fucking damnit. I'm so sick of the retarded gundam suit spam, they need to get off their lazy asses and start modeling new INFANTRY units for the Tau, especially if they're going to take the fucking Kroot out. If this is true I'm livid. Like I said, I haven't played in a while but my Tau army is a jungle-themed army with a high reliance on auxiliary troops

>40K doesn't need anything other than grimdark in it because real life is good
>Internal Contrast only weakens the setting
I'm glad to know I can disgard your opinion, because that is the dumbest shit I've heard all week.

>Plays 40K
>Is surprised when fluff changes 180 degrees and forces in game changes

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That doesn't make any sense. The point of lore in things like this is to immerse yourself in it. It isn't immersive to say "wow, all of these characters are equally shitty people and if they win there will be an equally shitty outcome, good thing that's not what real life is like!"

I'll say it again: it is not interesting if there is no contrast in a setting. Star Wars would not be interesting if the Rebels committed genocide and wanted to just install a different Emperor. The Lord of the Rings wouldn't be interesting if the humans were basically just orcs without the nasty skin, who wouldn't to conquer all of Middle-Earth and subjugate non-humans. Nobody wants to root for a team when both the teams are equally shitty.

It's not like having a single "good" faction would upset the order too much. People would still love to play the Imperium because they identify with the humans. People would still love to play the Eldar because they like the idea of ancient space elves living in the twilight of their race. People would still play the Tyranids because they want to imagine conquering the entire galaxy and converting it into bio-mass.

Because everyone bought Knights last ed when they were super fucking good. Why would anyone buy them now? They all own them. So if you make them suck, bam now people gotta buy the next OP thing.

Yeah I'm pretty fuckin surprised since that means Tau will now have precisely dick for close-combat infantry and the armies will now degenerate into nothing but robot spam. I fucking hate crisis suits. They look cool when they're used as the equivalent of infantry support tanks, but when they literally outnumber infantry it just turns into a joke.

Not just real life, there's plenty of other good things to be had. The need for contrast within the setting is fallacious.
It's like saying you must have gravy in your chocolate because you can't appreciate chocolate by itself.

Nope, such contrast destroys tone and flavour. There are contrasts within the setting, but having a good faction is a hard nullification at the attempt to create a grim universe.

Obvious horseshit. They seem to me like they're priced higher based on a combination of three factors.

>age of mould
>number of minis
>number of bits / detail

Thats why primaris marines are expensive and necron warriors are cheap. Also college textbooks dont cost $40/50.

This is one of the most bitter, foorfaggy threads I've ever seen.

IRL vehicles without infantry support are in trouble. But then GW isn't known for realism is it?
I suppose the vespids will be gone as well

Hey retard, did you know they made record profits last year?

>Nope, such contrast destroys tone and flavour
Literally anyone who knows anything about literature or the arts would fucking disagree with you, you autist. Contrast is what creates highlights and points of interest. A brown piece of paper that is the same shade of brown throughout is, objectively, not fucking interesting.

Except...
Except that's wrong?
I haven't been saying there needs to be a "good" faction, just let the 'good' elements of each faction show every once in a while so the players who want to embrace that can do so for their dudes.
Let the guardsmen survive once in a while, let a Space Marine show compassion, let the Tech-Priest get in touch with his humanity every now and again.
If everyone is a toxic, evil prick every story and every game I play it gets stale because "Yaaay my Mechanicus actually don't end up getting any meaningful data from this battle because of incompetence...again" then it gets really fucking repetitive.

Vespids were gay as shit anyways and I don't think they're had a new mold since they were first introduced. But I'm definitely salty about losing the Kroot. They better fucking retcon the lore then and make it so that Fire Warriors aren't complete ass at melee combat. Maybe start using those samurai swords as an actual weapon in-game, rather than just decoration for the models.

>Literally anyone who knows anything about literature or the arts would fucking disagree with you, you autist.

Nope, not if they know what they're doing.

>I haven't been saying there needs to be a "good" faction

Then I don't care what you've been saying. I've been saying a good faction is bad tonally.

Yeah CC will be a bit of a bloodbath otherwise

Foul blightspawn is 30$ and highly effective. Try again. This is not the actual trend and u r a fget lel.

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> just let the 'good' elements of each faction show every once in a while so the players who want to embrace that can do so for their dudes.
This. The whole reason I started playing Tau was because I thought it was interesting that there was this tiny little empire trying to make the world a better place. Then GW turns around and tells me that my honorable warriors fighting for the Greater Good are actually genocidal maniacs being mind controlled by psychic dictators. Thanks, GW. That's totally what a wanted, a generic grimdark faction with weeb armor.

>The whole reason I started playing Tau was because I am a gay ass babby weeb

Interesting.

Breaking News: Anonymous user on Veeky Forums discoveres that centuries of arts, cooking, and music are actually garbage because artists "didn't know what they were doing"

Stop being a cock and go outside user.

>Nope, not if they know what they're doing.
I'm not going to argue anymore with a retard that didn't even pass 9th grade English literature or elementary art class.

widewalls.ch/contrast-in-art-and-the-value-of-the-opposites/

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast_(music)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast_(literary)

No people who know what they're doing recognise that putting something side by side with it's polar opposite isn't good for establishing a consistent tone.

The other user is just blowing some fluff out of proportions.

In the new codex the 4rth sphere of expansion went trought the warp. Without Gellar Fields. As you can imagine, it was a very shitty idea.

Some survived, but had basically all of their auxiliaries possessed by demons or going pic related, so they turned heavily xenophobic to survive. When the high command found out it punished the commanders, but in the end there is now a heavily xenophobic Tau subfaction in the north of the galaxy. The Empire itself it's generally unchanged.

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they just gave a lore reason to just promote Battle suits oriented army and they made sure they won't focus on the aux's anymore
enjoy your gundam

>hurrrrr if you don't want your guys covered in decapitated heads and skulls 24/7, screaming with fanatic devotion to their immortal gods while sending millions of people to die in a meatgrinder just to advance the front lines 100 meters, you're a faggot!
Don't worry user, one day you'll grow up. You'll look back at your edgy collection of Tapout shirts and Monster energy drinks with disgust.

Honestly, I don't know why you 40K guys bother, I really, really don't. It's like you've got your naked greased up but-holes up against the glory holes in the GW toilet stalls, and you just know you're going to get fucked hard and mercilessly, and every time you moan and groan then pay another $200 for a new codex and army bits to make your armies legal again. It's literal insanity. Why don't you just turn your back on them and play Infinity or Antares or something?

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>No people who know what they're doing recognise that putting something side by side with it's polar opposite isn't good for establishing a consistent tone.

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I'm not the idiot who thought playing a generic good guy was a thing in the setting that literally coined the phrase grimdark.

The funny thing is that the new codex support a strategy of a main infantry core with battlesuits only as a support, and you have a sept that is tailored to work well with auxiliaries. Battlesuits only armies are shit.

btw if you're not getting the point that's being conveyed with these paintings, it's proof that you're retarded.

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No consistency. It's essentially three different tones.

No but you ARE the moron who reads "I don't want to be a chode 24/7" as "I need to be a glorious golden paladin of goody goodness to enjoy my toy soldiers"

You don't have to be a chode 24/7. You don't actually live in in the 40k universe. This is like complaining that a Hello Kitty game won't let you play as a murderous sadistic sex fiend.

i recon i blew some stuff out of proportion
but if you tell me it's not an exuse to discard the aux's problem everyone wanted to be fixed then you don't know GW
if they want an army to be played in a single style
to sell minis, then they'll do it without a second thought

In that picture the contrast is the point. It's deliberately atonal.
40k though has striven for a consistent dark tone.

Done with your dumb shit.
Back to the shortbus with you.

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One more for you. By the way, in case you really are this stupid, I'll point out why exactly contrast is what MAKES the tone in all of these paintings.

In this one, the contrast is between the glow of the fireplace and the darkness of the surrounding room. It seems to almost be creeping in, as if the fire were dying, clearly mirroring the terror of Ivan as he realizes he has just murdered his son, and darkness begins to take hold of him.
Here, we see a direct contrast between the young boy and the militiamen and governor. The adults are dressed in somber colors, and they are in an informal court setting. The young boy, on the other hand, is pale, and is dressed in bright colors. With this, we see the contrast between the innocence of the young boy, and the age and lack of imagination of the older adults, who must, ironically, decide on matters of innocence.
The general tone of this piece is one of salvation. The jagged coastline is almost pitch black, shielded from the rays of the sun. The sailors that have survived their shipwreck and pull themselves ashore. A priest holds up a cross and the survivors thank God for their deliverance, while in the background, the rising sun illuminates the ordeals they have survived, but not the ones yet to come.

If you still can't get this through your skull, you're fucking hopeless.

How's it dumb?
Imagine if you went to see a new pixar movie about funny talking animal but for 15 minutes it turned into a surrealist body horror film.
It doesn't go.

No, it isn't, it's one tone. The contrast is what makes the fucking tone interesting. A blank canvas is not interesting, it has no theme, no tone, and no reason to give a shit about it or the characters on it.

Shit, captcha ate my file.

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No answers to this one then?

A better analogy would be: "imagine going to see a Pixar movie about a talking animal, and then throughout the entire movie, the talking animal frolics with its family and is happy, nothing disturbs its day-to-day life, and it lives happily forever after without ever facing any challenges to overcome."

Yeah, that would be a really interesting kids movie that would definitely have a point to it.

not him but do you describe is a change of tone
in a mlovie, if they described a bleak setting with only war, a faction of dudes who aren't complete asshole is not a change of tone
it's a tool to make the setting deep and not monotonous, it add depth

>No, it isn't, it's one tone.

Nope, the fiery sky, the cliffs the ocean. I don't like it.

>The contrast is what makes the fucking tone interesting.

No, consistency beats the cheap pop of such major contrast.

Alright, we're done here. When 98% of the population disagrees with your retardation, I'm sorry but you're objectively wrong and you know nothing about art of literature. I also don't think you actually know what the definition of tone is. There is one overarching tone in that painting. The contrasts within the painting are what make the tone, and whereas that painting is featured in fine art galleries throughout the world, your autistic ramblings on a Tibetan finger painting emporium are universally ridiculed.

The real shame is on us for enabling this baiting 40kid for this long.
I say he's baiting because the idea of someone being this fucking stupid is a horrible one

>the idea of someone being this fucking stupid is a horrible one
Many 40k players are socially awkward fedoras who are attracted to grimdark shit because they're edgy as fuck. Don't expect a lot of deep thought from them, they just want to imagine explosions and buildings made out of skulls and other edgy retarded shit.

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that's a nice pic, it feel like it been traced on a war pic

>Many 40k players
Excuse me, many 40k fans*. Most of the edgy faggots are too poor to afford to play the game, they just read the horribly written books and make memes about heresy and spaish muhreens and muh gawd-empuruh

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That would just be boring because nothing happened. Maintaining a comedic tone is what usually happens despite what the plot is.

>a faction of dudes who aren't complete asshole is not a change of tone

Yes it is. If the setting is built on a griminess and grittiness and they you have ipod good guys show up that's a change in tone.

Give up if you like, but I'm not beholden to your shit taste. Contrasting color are good only to draw attention to something, not create a tone.
The tone of the setting is 40k's point.

Not bait.

>Y-you're just edgy!

I'm not, I appreciate a balance of things. I don't need good guys in 40k because I know that's antithetical to the setting's tone and flavour.
I don't need pictures of dead bodies in my light hearted entertainment either.

Fuck it.
This is now a positive 40K thread.
Post your heartwarming tales and any lorebits you can find.

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>That would just be boring because nothing happened
Gee, kinda like the 40k universe where everyone has been at war for hundreds of years and nothing has advanced politically, culturally, or technologically...
>your shit taste
Lmfao. Calling one of the masterpieces of maritime art "shit taste." This is how removed from reality you stupid fucks are.

>pay another $200 for a new codex and army bits to make your armies legal again
>Download pdf of your codex
>Only buy new units that you like and genuinely want to play
I genuinely have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I have never once had a unit let alone my entire army rendered illegal by a new edition or codex. I buy maybe one or two units a year depending on if I want something.

>play Infinity
I don't like skirmish games

>Gee, kinda like the 40k universe where everyone has been at war for hundreds of years and nothing has advanced politically, culturally, or technologically...

Things happen though.

>Lmfao. Calling one of the masterpieces of maritime art "shit taste." This is how removed from reality you stupid fucks are.

>Y-you not dumb sheep like me?!

See pictures like this are exactly the point of what would make many of these factions more likeable. I know that obviously that picture is a parody, but even just a tiny story about a space marine having pity on an orphan he sees sitting in the rubble or something, and hands her one of his little trinkets or something to comfort her, would make a world of difference in creating characters that you actually give a shit about. The big picture gets boring when that's all it ever is. Yeah, 12-year-olds find it really cool to just imagine battles involving billions of people, where millions of people die in a single explosion or some shit. But if you don't take the time to express the "humanity" of the factions every now and then, it gets fucking boring.

you are confused
tau aren't the " ipod good guys" (whatever that may mean), there difference is what make them stick out and not them be just another GRIMDERP faction
if the tau were the same as the imperium nobody would even care.
ergo, the Tau need to be the white spot in the black painting of the 41 millenium

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No, I reject that notion. Adding a random bright splooge to a dark painting is bad for the tone.

It's always a treat to see pics with Imperial Forces on worlds that don't follow Imperial Architecture, makes those distant worlds feel more varied.

Stop responding, it's obvious now that he's been baiting what with the one-sentence responses to several posts and the use of the term "sheeple"

Guys, look. I found one of this user's paintings he put up on deviantart. He's very talented, this should be in the Louvre desu

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>Rejecting stark contrast to establish a tone is the same thing as a singular colhhhhhhhhhhhuurrr

Veeky Forums - Art Critique

40k is better if everyone is a dick, because they are dicks with their own goals and ideals.

It undermines factions like eldar or space marines when one faction is just objectively good, because the brutal contrast undermines the shades of grey other factions have internally and externally.

"Protect mankind from zenos and chaos!"
"Restore our dying race so the galaxy (us) can prosper in peace!"
"No, you didnt join the greater good so anything you do or dont do except support us unconditionally is morally wrong"

that's a strawman, Tau are not "morally high ground : the faction" they simply have a different version of things that make them consider option such as diplomacy or having allies because they don't know the harsh reality of the galaxy

I hope pic related is a canon occurance.

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I'm pretty sure smiling or being happy is punishable by death in the Grimderp Future of the 42nd Millennium

Now you're just being as bad as the contrastfag.

It’s what happens when low functioning autistics are allowed to use the internet

Damn dude did a Space Marines player fuck your wife again?