How to explain and make women absolutely equal in a rather low-fantasy setting?

How to explain and make women absolutely equal in a rather low-fantasy setting?

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Define low-fantasy.

What do you mean?

Men do the heavy work, women do the work that requires emotions and fiensse.

Men work as blacksmiths, soldiers, and labormen while women would work as tailors, spies, and scouts.

Each sex has its pros and cons and that's what makes them equal.

A guy might be stronger physically than a woman, but his fat fingers and intimidating figure means he can't sew well and he can't be very persuasive.

Nobody thought about it from the start and when they proposed gender differences it was too late

Never introduce inequality in the first place. It never existed. Explanation done.

Perhaps I've been wrong when I said low, it's a darkish cold Fantasy setting, Mages aren't really common but magic is a major part.

Just do it. Everything doesn't need a twenty page explanation. If you want girls to be badass fighters too, then *poof*, girls are now badass fighters too.

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Also as for now I'm focusing this on an ultra-religious state that sees fire as holy, obviously that means fire mages are seen as holy (Not sure yet if fire magic is the only available force), you're born with the potential for magic (a 35% chance and you're infertile)

Dangerous as fuck wildlife that never really let humans settle down with agriculture until they learned masonry to build walls to keep them out. Men and women both go out for hunting for food, leather, and organs to make water skins out of. As a result of this the humans of the setting are carnivorous and incapable of getting efficient nutrients from plants.

Dangerous as fuck wildlife is there (pre-historic fauna such as Mammoths and sabretooths) but it's not to the extent of not being able for humankind to develop

Make your humans fundamentally different to ours in such a way that females actually have some sort of physiological advantage besides the capacity for pregnancy to offset their inferior strength and endurance

Make mpreg an actual thing with humans and give men all the disadvantages of being fit to go through pregnancy. Alternatively, don't.

Okay, just have there be agressive wildlife that required more than just the men of the village to take down. Either that or societal factors leading up to women taking up important roles in government.

That's an idea as well, having a female as the only mage in the village while going on hunts is something.

Here are a few ideas:

Playable races exhibit no relevant sexual dimorphism.

Playable races can switch their sexes around as required by the situation (this doesn't need to be fast or painless).

A wizard did it.

>The Watch is a tabletop roleplaying game set in a “light fantasy” setting known as The Clanlands. It takes place during a dark and horrific war between the now-united ten clans who live there and an invading force, known only as The Shadow.

>The Shadow is a powerful and insidious enemy that is able to enter the minds of its opponents and slowly turn them to its side; twisting them into unnatural foes. For reasons unknown, The Shadow is able to more easily influence the minds of men, and has turned a great deal of the clan’s soldiers against itself.

>With most of its fighting force crippled or worse, the clans have joined together and begun enlisting new warriors to defend their homes. Women and non-binary femme people who seem better able to resist The Shadow’s hold have been recruited, trained, promoted, and formed into a new order: The Watch.

>In The Watch, you’ll play a group of elite soldiers who are called upon time and time again to defend villages, attack The Shadow’s forces at key locations, scout the enemy’s lines, and much more. Each mission comes with its fair share of costs and compromises and you’ll need to navigate them in order to be ready to heed the next call to action.

>It’s in these in-between moments where the rules for The Watch focus themselves: What do you do to unwind from the pressure that threatens to pull you down? Who do you spend what little free time you have with, and why? How will you hold off The Shadow’s influence so that you can see the end of this war? That’s what you’ll have to find out for yourself…

Female warriors are common. They face more risk (i.e. being raped) and aren't as physically strong as male warriors, but there's no stigma against them.

Make your female fighters rely more on gear and smarts to make up for strength.

equal opportunity rape bruh
youtube.com/watch?v=2vhIWC2Boik

>Game of Normies

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Assuming gods created humanoids, they didn't bother putting in enough sexual dimorphism to make them meaningfully different. Hell don't even make a point to explain it, that'll just draw attention to it. Most people wouldn't give it enough thought to ask "hey why don't girls get -4 str?"

Just say that female pc's are the exception to the rule in terms of physical strength for women, and if an npc brings this up let it just be as a compliment. Outside of that make sure to show women's work, such as tailoring, child-rearing, bardic arts such as storytelling and cradlesong, cooking for their families and watching over their homes while their husbands are away as actual meaningful work that is worthy of honor. Men and women aren't equal in all fields, but they are equal in value.

Strength would only ever come up if they had to wear heavy armor or wield pole-arms. Speed, agility, and skill have always been historically paramount in a fight with weapons.

>Playable races
It's not really made for a game so..

It's a combination of strength and speed, but let's not start this argument again.

>can't be very persuasive
What you on fool I met guys who will talk you in circles. The only tool most females have is sexual power but once you disarm they of that they don't have a lot

yes, but speed would be more important

downside to female fighters would be inability to wear a lot of heavy armors without strength building

It's a fantasy setting. Women only have STR -2 instead of STR -4.

>not for a game
The fuck you're doing in Veeky Forums, user?

In any case: replace "playable races" with "sapient races", then.

And +2 wis.

Why would you do that ?

>fat fingers and intimidating figure
not everyone is a lard-ass like you

Veeky Forums is basically my /setting related center/

Not OP, but the reasons that I'd end up wanting to do it would be for aesthetic reasons and because some of my players would likely want to play female characters also for mostly aesthetic reasons and I don't really want to devote a subplot or something to grappling with those particular societal expectations and prejudices.

Settings with no humans can be pretty cool

>Women as scouts
Clearly spoken as someone who has never seen untamed wilderness in his life.

There's a reason why hunting traditionally was considered a Man's job and it's not just because you might run into dangerous animals every now and then.
Navigating through unmapped terrain is a laborious and dangerous task even if you don't run into enemies.

We're talking low fantasy. Make men big, strong and good at fighting and fucking.

Women in exchange will be more dexterous and agile.

It's low-fantasy, not Game of Thrones. You're allowed to bend rules, otherwise all low fantasy settings would have rampant sexism and patriarchal nobles with a woman's only job to be popping out kids.

Sure, it's fantasy after all. To the opposite of the women in our world, the women in the fantasy setting have common sense, keep their cool instead of being hysteric and aren't subject to mood swings.

>would have rampant sexism and patriarchal nobles with a woman's only job to be popping out kids.
Seems you described all my fantasy settings.

Magic is feminine. Men have to chop their dicks off to reach the highest levels of magic.

Easiest solution is to simply give equality of opportunity, not equality in outcome.

There are no legal barriers against women doing same things as men, most just prefer not to because the things men have to do generally suck.

by stating you are playing a fantasy and not some neckbeardy grim derp pseudo simulationist bullshit.

The world is harsh enough that people form pastoral communities where both sexes have to work equally to keep the community going. There's no sexism because every person is needed for labor.

the magic in the setting makes pregnancy trivial

Dexterity and Agility aren't the traits you need.
You need endurance, cunning, good spatial awareness and strength.

You're not going legolas in the woods when scouting, you are trodding through harsh terrain.

>but his fat fingers and intimidating figure means he can't sew well

You sexist shit. I can sew like a god!

But the other side has more dudes than you, so if given the choice of using one of your men as a scout or putting him in the vanguard you would rather use women who can do the job well enough.

No pregnancy. Instead people build up the "charge" and if two with full charge meet they can create a child (or multiple if they are lucky) through sex. You of course need 2 people with +/- "charges" to create a child.

dont, it just is. You are in a fantasy world, said fantasy world had a slightly diferent history than ours and thus women are not regarded as inferior to men. Bam, done

humans are actually clay golems with identical specs, despite their varied appearances

This explains why human (m) and human (w) show up in every profession in equal amounts. It also explains why you see no human children during the game. They don't exist.

"Good at fucking" is generally a prerequisite for every successful form of life.

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rainbow 6 siege, despite being sold as the realistic counterpart of call of duty, has an improbably female cast, approaching 50/50 despite there being not even 10% female special forces members in real life
despite this no one has ever really been bothered

replace modern special forces with dark fantasy, and use the same logic
very few people should complain
women are just as capable of being
badass and tough

People can shoot fire from their assholes and there are fuckmothering Elves that aren't just a myth but have a city a few miles down the road. I think people will give a lot less of a fuck about the differences between men and women when they have way, way more "other" people to care about.

Wisdom doesn't mean common sense in D&D. It means perceptiveness, being able to spot bullshit, lies and predators.

>absolutely equal
What's the point then even. Just make asexual humans.

Considering how important scouting is, you would only use the ones best qualified for the job.

But less important than the actual fight will be.

rule of cool
attempts to explain it often incur in being more cringey than the use itself
>but it's unrealistic
yes, but if you and your group don't care it's not a problem

underrated post.

Power Armor.

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>absolutely equal
There wouldn't be men and women then, the species would be asexual. The answer is you can't.

Time for a basic lesson in evolution as we compare humans to lions.
>humans are bipedal and have huge brains, causing our babies to be huge, this makes pregnancy extremely difficult and dangerous, the baby has to be passed through the tiny thigh gap
>also because we are bipedal, pregnant humans are practically incapacitated compared to pregnant lions
>a human has to be pregnant for 9 months, debilitated and at risk of death, in order to have a single offspring
>a lion is pregnant for 4 months to have 2 or 3 offspring
>infant mortality was very high so the average proto-human female needed to have perhaps 4 or 5 children to grow the population
>this means that females spent a massive portion of their fertile life pregnant or nursing
>it is far better for the species for females to be adapted toward pregnancy, birth, and nursing, physical strength won't do you much good when you are weighed down by a pregnancy
>body dimorphism predictably develops alongside human brain size and bipedalness
>psychological dimorphism predictably develops alongside physical dimorphism
Bam, males and females. You can't make them equal without artificial wombs. Why would you want them to be, anyway? Usually people who want female warriors see it as a good thing or as an attractive thing. But being a warrior or adventurer not only sucks, it's gross. They are sweaty, constantly exposed to infection and disease, probably have digestive issues (e.g. Diarrhea) from poor diet and bad water, riddled with bugs and parasites, can be ruined by a single wound, and so on.

>There wouldn't be men and women then, the species would be asexual. The answer is you can't.
Google "sequential hermaphroditism", user.

>low-fantasy

Adventures occuring below the waist

>women do the work that requires emotions
>work
>that requires emotions

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If you do it, don't try to explain it. It is pants-on-head retarded from a worldbuilding perspective. But it can make sense from a game design perspective.

Literally just this.

If somebody at your table raises an eyebrow, and you tell them you just want it that way, and they have a problem with it, you didn't want that player in your game anyways.

>A bunch of pseudoscience based vaguely on anthropology

This is why evolutionary psychology is such a flawed field of study - you start with the conclusion but work backwards in some random order to find the cause, which then cannot be proven or disproven.

I could just as easily say that females are the baseline for human fitness and males have become larger and stronger as the result of sexual selection. Or maybe external forces of conflicts with other human groups. Or because height and muscle correlates with some genetic immune system adaptation that has yet to be discovered. Any one of which has just as much validity as what you just wrote.

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Women are better at dealing with g-forces

General trends for a population cant be used to judge individuals within it.

More important, poor scouting will lose you more battles than a handful of your soldiers being less strong.

An army that doesn't use the best scouts it can is just asking to be ambushed or forced to fight on terrain that has them at a disadvantage.

You forget one very, very big thing.
If a male scout is captured, at least in times of all-out bush war like a lot of games assume, he'll be kicked to the ground, interrogated with a barrel to the back of his head and shot no matter what he says.
If a female scout is caught, it's tied up and right into the core of the enemy camp, where she'll be socializing with randy enemy soldiers and other captives for days.

Let me break this argument down into it's minimalist extreme.

>You have two people
>Male and female
>The male is stronger
>One of them is a fighter
>The other is a scout
>You cannot avoid a fight
>Stronger scout + weaker fighter = you lose the fight
>Stronger fighter + weaker scout = you win the fight
>Your best option is having the stronger person be a fighter

It more often goes like this:
>Stronger scout + weaker fighter = you lose the fight, but do some damage
>Stronger fighter + weaker scout = you get ambushed and killed without even getting a chance to fight
What you really want is strong scouts and fighters, both.

that's right! Biological determinists are patriarchal nazies.

You can't justify it OP, it isn't going to be realistic and you can't rationalize it away in a way that doesn't fall apart after even a few minutes of honest thought.

But the game doesn't have to be realistic. The best thing to do is to simply ignore it. If you want it, have it. Just ignore the problem. The vast majority of people are not going to be bothered by it as they are already playing fantasy. Besides, most people are so far removed from the realities of physical conflict that they have no honest reference anyhow.

>Someone says something I don't like
>Let me call them an SJW

Thats not how it works though.
If we reduce it down it goes like this.
>Stronger scout + weaker fighter = you win the fight or don't fight at all due to out manouvering
>Stronger fighter + weaker scout = you lose the fight because you get out maneuvered.


Its also not a 1 to 1 thing, an army of thousands is still only going to use a few dozen scouts, having less than 1% of your troops be a little less effective to give you an advantage on a strategic level is a no brainer.

fucking shitlord, check your priviledge

And those scouts are typically the most fit of the lot.

u don't

>Only the fighter has access to heavy armor and weapons
>You need to be strong to wield them
>Strong fighter + weak scout = someone has heavy armor
>Weak fighter + strong scout = no one has heavy armor

Let me add that the consequences of your fighter being weaker than the enemy (fighter dies) is much worse for you than your scout having slightly less endurance (range is slightly reduced)

Either way, if you are out-scouted and out-manoeuvred, your fighting force might as well not be there, no matter how good they are.

You win wars first by logistics, second by intelligence, and only third by strength.

heavy weapons and armor don't do shit when you drop a log on them, ya dingus

Yo biologist here, most people in biology dont accept evolutionary psycholog and consider it a though experiment and not a Field of study. Even my evolution profesor who is as old fashioned as you get dose not use it

If the world is shit enough it could just be pragmatism not to have sexual roles or differences. Everyone is responsible for getting food or defending the tribe/hamlet/family because if not everyone dies. In a grim dirty fantasy world, would a widow with kids let her children starve while she mourn s or would she strap on boots, grab a bow, and tell the eldest boy he's in charge until mommy kills enough food.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War#Paraguay_2

After wear with mighty goblin empire, the remaining men are too valuable (and often too crippled) to do any risky job and have to focus all their energy to ensure the survival of the species.

biology is a social construct... change your field to something relevant

>... and non-binary femme people
I’m out.

You can't since even the precepts of fantasy settings carry the everyday biases of the players and their perceptions into the world, which is why most stories go out of their way to explain the differences of our world and theirs. Otherwise people will just assume their biases in the fantasy world. Which as an example why Drow are always explicitly stated to be matriarchial in FR.

Our societal biases are built on biological differences between men and women. If it was history alone, progressives in their want for change would have been more successful. Biology constrains women by changing them with pregnancy, and by having physical differences from the start. If you want to equal them out from beginning, you need a weapon or a change that levels the playing field from the start. Since males have strength, you need a counter to form a believable narrative. I'd argue low level telepathy, not much more than intuition but something that would give women an edge that doesn't change them physically. At least overtly, and how does that play out in the world etc.

Equality of oportunity SHOULD work both ways; if a man wants to be a weaver and/or dyer, the society should be open to letting him do that, even though that isn't a traditionally male role.
Otherwise, it's just reversed sexism, with the men stuck with all the hard, crappy jobs and the women "cherry picking" the easier male tasks to prove they're "as good as any man!".

Why do we always talk about strength and not constitution?

The difference in endurance is way more significant to the discussion than the huge difference in strength.

In a fight, someone who tires easily is going to lose fast. They'll be an abysmal scout, they'll be an abysmal soldier. They will lose to people far less skilled and "agile" than them.

Strong vs Strong, weak vs weak, each fight comes down to luck.
Strong scout does better and kills weak scout, means strong fighter is outnumbered by, and then loses to, weak fighter/strong scout combination.

I think what you're wanting is a sliding scale of being able to sustain physical, high level stuff like being able to rack/huff a kit for 20 to 30 miles without dying like a soldier has to and problems that causes for women compared to men but honestly most people hand wave logistical issues in fantasy settings anyway. Just think about sheer amount of shit characters have but have no place for it, I mean the weight of money alone would be a huge problem in most settings.

I can think of a handful of games that worry about it like Fragged Empire where not only are your goods limited but paying for their upkeep is at the front of the game.

you must be fucking kidding.

don't microaggress against me you nazi shit. John money proved social constructivism right

Just have to toss the copper pieces away to avoid back pain.

Microaggression isn't verbable you sealioning redditor fuckstain.

rules say they have equal stats, therefore they are equal

anyone complains -> show em the door

THATS A MICROAGGRESSION YOU FUCKSTAIN
MODS BAN HIM

Because the differences between male and female endurance and pain tolerance are too diffuse for applesponges to bite on.
On top of that, from the research we have, it looks like women have the advantage, though of course men tend more towards extremes.
If you think women have low endurance and pain tolerance naturally, and it's not just a cultural factor, try living on the country in Africa or even Eastern Europe for a bit.

bro, a hundred pieces of metal even of small weight would be hard for most people to lug around and people go way beyond that. It would be easy to steal, a pain to carry in something, and irritating every time you bump something and it smashes into you. The every day annoyances of life should prove just how inconvenient something you get as a reward would be.

While obviously you could tie it in a sack and put it outside your armor, you get my point that people that have hundreds of pieces or more would be an issue yet people hand wave all the time.

The question in op's line is most likely cryptobait to talk about stuff and not get the thread deleted.

I don't play DnD. Googling DnD and Wisdom, the first thing that came up was common sense.