This thread is for basic questions and discussions related to 40k Lore...

I have read wolfking as I said already. It's has Russ throwing knuckle bones to view his future after just burying Prospero for doing the same. Not just hypocritical but typical of his ignorant behaviour.

He grew up on Fenris and it's culture is his. All his actions show him as a savage barbarian and you take him saying 'I could have been more' at face value? That's the Perturbo defence and it's a crock of shit. Russ loses his temper and fights he lion, he loses his temper and almost fights Magnus on Shrike. This ain't him faking it it's legitimately him just being a barbarian.

>feels bad about missing out on Istvaan V
Fucking why? So the Space Wolves could get all but wiped out? That's like being bummed you didn't get a seat on the Hindenburg after the fact.

At the same time though, could Russ not have more depth at times? Personally I'd prefer a barbaric asshole who actually has some intellectualism to him at times than just a strait up fuck fight and drink Viking in space

>I have read wolfking as I said already
So if you had, you know that Bjorn questions him EXACTLY about this, and he (or maybe it was Kva) answers that they don't mind psykery that much, they just didn't trust Magnus. Hence why none of the SW watch packs had problems with the librarians being put back in service.
>He grew up on Fenris and it's culture is his
Russ is clearly more than that, else he wouldn't have learned his lesson at Alaxxes
>Russ loses his temper and fights he lion, he loses his temper and almost fights Magnus on Shrike
Nearly every legion fought another legion or nearly so during the GC. That's just how primarchs roll

>Why did Leman Russ attack Magnus without question?
Because Horus, the Warmaster and the chosen of the Emperor, told him to do so. Russ thought he was acting on Emperor's orders. He didn't need to like it, but he was loyal to the core.

He thought he could have made a difference and ended the heresy by killing Horus.
Most likely bravado

>Hence why none of the SW watch packs had problems with the librarians being put back in service.
Which is bullshit because then Emperor order the psykers to stop using their powers and if their loyalty was so strong they would have listened. However the Wolves arrogance was no less than the Sons so they didn't listen.

>That's just how primarchs roll
Except no one else is trying to claim they're just pretending the whole time only you about Russ.

>and if their loyalty was so strong they would have listened
So what, you'd have preferred they put down any loyalist primarch that used librarians? Why do you want them to be good dumb?
>Except no one else is trying to claim they're just pretending the whole time only you about Russ.
My point was that getting into fights with other primarchs doesn't mean they're barbarians, otherwise Magnus is as well, since he had a clash with Curze

>That's just how primarchs roll
>Except Russ he's just pretending
Fuck off. Why do Yiffs always think they're special in every single way?

No, you moron, he isn't pretending when he's fighting, I noted last thread that he's a prideful bastard, he's only pretending when he plays the slackjawed moron

So if primaris marines aren't meant to be an out and out replacement of normal marines, what does that mean for ultima founding chapters? Do they eventually accept manlets into their ranks or are they going to just remain primaris only? I can't remember if this specific issue has been brought up yet.

Who was better at building shit Dorn or Perturabo?

>So what, you'd have preferred they put down any loyalist primarch that used librarians? Why do you want them to be good dumb?
What type of strawman are you erecting here? Don't even try to deny that the Wolves ignored the edict after being one of the main forces that pushed for it in the first place. Russ then after attacking Magnus for years about psykers and sorcerer then burning all of Prospero and its inhabitants uses knuckle bones to see the future. Ignorant and hypocritical and totally in line with his character as a barbarian not some 'just pretending to be retarded' meme.

>My point was that getting into fights with other primarchs doesn't mean they're barbarians
Oh so you're trying to hide Russ' belligerent attitude wiht a generalisation. In that case lets list Primarch fights that before the heresy.

>Russ and the Lion
>Russ and Angron
>Russ and Magnus(would ahve happened if Lorgar wasnt there)
>Kurze and Dorn
>Kurze and Magnus
Huh. I'm seeing a common thread...

inb4 you say Magnus. We both know it was his arrogance that got him on those fights not his barbaric nature

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What would angron be like without the nails Veeky Forums?

20% less angry

At building a fortification? Dorn.

>Don't even try to deny that the Wolves ignored the edict after being one of the main forces that pushed for it in the first place
Yes, when the galaxy was a different place. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
>attacking Magnus for years about psykers and sorcerer then burning all of Prospero and its inhabitants uses knuckle bones to see the future
>I have not read Wolf King: the post
Again, Russ says that they don't mind psykery *that* much, he just mistrusts Magnus (turns out he was right, but whatever)

>arrogance that got him on those fights not his barbaric nature
>d-don't talk shit about red daddy
Where do you set the line between arrogance and barbarism? What is one, and what is the other?

>Yes, when the galaxy was a different place. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Bullshit the Wolves never placed their psykers back into the ranks like they were ordered. They never stopped practicing either. There was years between Nikaea and the BoP. Stop ignoring facts.

>>I have not read Wolf King: the post
>If I keep repeating it it must be true the argument
Do you have anything of substance to talk about just you repeating yourself is getting boring.

>Where do you set the line between arrogance and barbarism?
What is the colour red? Stop trying to move the goalpost and stay on topic.

So what are catachan cities like?
Do they even have them?

I would expect that lore-wise space marines won't get replaced, but that all models will eventually be replaced. That's just because Primaris Marines have more realistic proportions, and people like that better.

>Bullshit the Wolves never placed their psykers back into the ranks like they were ordered
Yes wolves are hypocrites, I was talking about the watch packs though.
>Do you have anything of substance to talk about just you repeating yourself is getting boring
When you keep proving you haven't actually read the shit you're arguing about, then yeah
>What is the colour red? Stop trying to move the goalpost and stay on topic
When others start fights it's arrogance, when Russ does it's barbarism. Pick one

So did Russ actually believe that one squad of Wolves was enough to kill a Primarch? He was basically sending those guys to their deaths.
>Okay Hrulf, you got Curze. If he turns bad, you take him down hard. You've got this

Why did posting Russ turn this into a Russ thread but posting Fulgrim didn't ;-;. Anyways I'm wondering what went through the minds of the original Fenris colonists. Was there just a group of Vargs in the future that wanted their own planet or something?

>When you keep proving you haven't actually read the shit you're arguing about, then yeah
I've shown I have. Do you deny Russ sits there throwing knuckle bones? This 'you didnt read it' is just the shittiest form of argument btw.

>When others start fights it's arrogance, when Russ does it's barbarism. Pick one
You're such a disingenuous person to talk to. 'If this then this' seems to be you motto with no consideration for context at all. How you've conflated arrogance to barbarianism is beyond me unless its malicious on purpose.

You truely think Magnus is barbaric? That that would be evidence of it being so? No you don't I'm sure but you use it anyway because somehow you think me having to respond to this retarded point makes you '''''argument''''' stronger. Russ entire aesthetic and background and behaviour shows his barbarism, and his habit of getting onto brawls with his brothers is just another piece of evidence. Magnus did not start a fight with either of his brother either so just stfu already.

Russ in those scene is barbaric and savage. He strike the Lion first, was this him pretending? Fuck no it wasn't and don't deny it.

Did anyone other than Guilliman actually tollerate and let the execution squads hang around and do their jobs.

Well, to your point, the pack sent to watch Gulliman actually did take on Curze when he was rampaging through Macragge's main fortress. Got their asses kicked, sure, but to their credit, only one of them died and four more were hospitalized. The rest were just beat to hell but still functional, and this is CURZE we're talking about here. Wolves are made of fucking iron to the bone, man. They don't fuck around

How is it that Tzeentch, Khorne, and Nurgle were all born on Terra/Earth through the events of human history but Slaanesh took the entire Eldar empire murder-fucking itself to death to be born?

How many marines actually do the whole eating brains thing?

Because the human form is perfection, heretic.

Because honestly how does an entire interstellar empire murder-fucking itself into the ground NOT create a new god in the warp? Same reason the Earth based events didnt rip a hole in the galaxy each time, quantity over quality

Because that's not what happened at all and your headcanon is wrong.

It was the true post scarcity society. A race which desires perfection. Can afford to "trade" with technologically inferior races and plans on spending their immortal lives enjoying life. No doubt the hreed in their hearts desired to make a god in their subconscious minds.

Does the Imperium have regiments consist wholy of slaves like Gundam IBO's human debris?

The idea being human prisoners from Tau Worlds being captured by Rogue traders and sold to Imperial Worlds unable to pay their tithe in manpower as slave soldiers. Ranging from being expendable pilots for mech suits to plain cannon fodder. These slaves have their optimism and hope beaten out of them and they never rebel.

There are too many warp entities to count. For as long as there have been sentient creatures, there have been warp entities. All of the great chaos gods are just the most advanced form of these lesser entities. Before the gods came to be, the warp still had their predecessors or lesser versions. Maybe humanity simply happened to be born at such a time that warp was ripe to reach a critical mass. The warp gods would have eventually been born even without humans in any case.

At least Nurgle and Khorne were born during Terran middle ages.

Which branch of the inquisition is the most likely to glass a planet?

Probably Malleus. They spend all day and all night obsessing over how dangerous daemons are that they'd be the first to panic when a daemonic infestation got loose.

Look at it this way: for the majority of the Eldar Empires existence, their actions and worship probably powered their own gods - who were even worshiped by other races, such as the Hrud. The Eldar Pantheon probably policed the Warp, and made sure nothing too nasty was able to grow too strong.

However, (most of) the Eldar fell into decadence and hedonism and all types of nasty shit, and stopped venerating their own gods. The Eldar Pantheon lost power over the millennia. Nasty shit started acting up in the Warp.

Coinciding with this gradual fall of the Eldar and their Gods was the evolution and history of Humanity, who technologically advanced at an unbelievable speed and settled most of the galaxy while the Eldar were busy with hard drugs and murder-orgies on their Crone Worlds. Humanity had little, beyond it's shadowy perpetual/psyker population, understanding of the Warp, and did pretty horrendous shit up through to the DAoT. It should be noticed that Humans were also naturally on the path to evolving into a wholly psychic race, perhaps even more radically than the Eldar.

Humanity covers the galaxy and feeds the Chaos Gods through their ignorance. The Eldar starve their own Pantheon and hasten Slaanesh's birth through their hedonism. Eventually, the Chaos Gods become powerful enough to feed off all races, not just Humanity.

It's really all up to the inquisitor individually. Ordo Hereticus seems the most militantly hardcore though

Malleus > Xenos > Hereticus

It really depends on what's involved though. The Xenos can get fucking nasty when Tyranids are involved.

If for some warp forsaken act the devoured Eldar Gods got spat out like an overdose and was allowed to gain strength. What dark aspects would the former Eldar Pantheon assume in a never again moment. Especially with ynnead being born

Isn't it literally the same process to make primaris the one for normal space marines but with two or three extra organs?

>Bullshit the Wolves never placed their psykers back into the ranks like they were ordered. They never stopped practicing either. There was years between Nikaea and the BoP. Stop ignoring facts.
The edict was to disband the librarians which the space wolves technically didn't had any

If a primarch renamed his librarians something else could he just say "Heh they aint Librarian" and it would fly?

>I've shown I have. Do you deny Russ sits there throwing knuckle bones? This 'you didnt read it' is just the shittiest form of argument btw.
Throwing bones in a room isn't the same as having daemonic aids helping you to scribe the future user

Yes. And they can also turn normal Astartes into Primaris.

There's basically 3 main components. These metal bands around their bones that augment strength, an organ that pumps them full of crazier shit while fatally wounded, and what is essentially just an organ that pumps out HGH and makes them bigger.

Perty was better, but his inferiority complex and compulsive whining always got the best of him

your forgetting the fact that primaris have gene therapy similar to how custodes are made, in don't know how that would interact with normal marines (full grown that is)- aftera;ll if it was so simple as giving them it emps would of done it far longer ago

See Yes. The edict of Nikea was the emperor saying yeah sure whatever fuck off and let me work

>Does the Imperium have regiments consist wholy of slaves like Gundam IBO's human debris?

Yes, penal legions. Which can be any kind of prisoner, and have their loyalty reinforced with microbomb collars.

If you can imagine it and it doesn't directly contradict lore, most things are possible in the Imperium

Malleus, since they really only get called in when shit is officially out of control or was never under control to begin with, followed by Xenos fighting races like 'Nids and Orks that completely fuck up a planet by occupying it. At least when fighting races like the Tau and Eldar you can "withdraw" with the intention of coming back with a bigger force, but by and large when a world is lost to 'Nids and Orks there is no reclaiming it, either because there is nothing left to reclaim or the Ork population is too damn high.

Ordo Hereticus are the ones that try to prevent Exterminatus, not saying they would shy away from it if it became unavoidable but it seems to me like if you're calling the Hereticus instead of the Malleus in the first place things haven't quite escalated yet to the point where Exterminatus is an option to be considered. Hereticus is more "Gestapo" to the Malleus' "Einsatzgruppen".

I would put in that even ork infested planets often only get carpet bombed rather than full blown exterminatus as they6 can be contained and eventually (painfully) exterminated

Is there any lore about races or any other subject matter relating to other galaxies within 40K. It seems to rarely be touched on by scifi and I find the idea of extra-galactic species terrifying.

Just how advanced was humanity during the DAoT? Could it have wiped the floor with current Imperium and other xenos races? If so, why didn't humans cleanse the galaxy during that time period?

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The tyranids are extragalactic in origin.

current imperium is a shadow of a shadow of the DAoT, from some lore pices DAoT Humans fought against the Eldar, but where never completely taken over, oh and this was pre fall eldar to, though their ineractions with the other ancients races (Ctan, old ones, necrons , orks ect) is never mentioned (to my knowledge)

>Is there any lore about races or any other subject matter relating to other galaxies within 40K. It seems to rarely be touched on by scifi and I find the idea of extra-galactic species terrifying.
Tyranids are an extra galactic species which are implied to have devoured at least a couple of galaxies before

>Just how advanced was humanity during the DAoT? Could it have wiped the floor with current Imperium and other xenos races? If so, why didn't humans cleanse the galaxy during that time period?
They weren't xenophobic back then which was one of the reasons why they fall because some of their former allies took the chance to enslave them

I mean when your scout tanks are baneblades and titans are the standard vehicles you're really fucking strong

>Is there any lore about races or any other subject matter relating to other galaxies within 40K.
The Tyranids crossed dark space between galaxies to reach the Imperium and are from beyond. The Silent King is said to be exploring beyond the galactic boundaries. It is said that stretching off in every direction as far as signals can reach, you can hear Orks

>Just how advanced was humanity during the DAoT

Third most advanced of all time behind the Necrons and peak Eldar. They would destroy the modern Imperium. They had guns that fucked with causality and teleported you back in time so shots would hit you, and black hole generation. During the DAoT, the humanity was actually friendly with alien species and had diplomatic relations. Humanities deep mistrust of the alien would come from all their former xenos allies betrayed them during the collapse

I swore I heard that terminator armor was basically just deep-space engineering/mining gear back in the DAOT but now I can't find that factoid.

That's a good way of distinguishing the two. One is secret police the other is paramilitary intelligence.

Reactor repair suit actually, and yeah, that's super old vapour lore from white dwarf days I can never find reference for anymore

>The technology for Exo-armour was originally developed during Mankind's Dark Age of Technology. These sealed environment suits enabled maintenance crews of spacecraft to operate in extremely hazardous environments such as hard vacuum or in other adverse atmospheric conditions. Exo-armour was constructed from heavy gauge Plasteel plating, forming an armoured shell that could withstand even the colossal impact of high-speed orbital micro-debris. It is the only armour suitable for working inside the high-pressure casings of plasma reactor shields, or the extremely corrosive environments inside the holds of bulk chemical carriers

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Idk man Apperently humanity murdered all xenos on a planet with nano bots if they wanted the planet. And the whole frendly with aliens probably was "dont leave your planet and you wont die. K thx bye". What is with this humanity was totally xenophilic guis. Im positive that has never been said. Prove me wrong if i am tho.

Horus told him the Emperor ordered it. He had in fact told Horus to tell Russ to ARREST Magnus and bring him in, Horus changed it to a kill order, knowing Russ would be willing to do it.

Dorn, but Dorn was wrong - every single fortification can be taken. It is just a question of how much time and how much manpower is needed. Perty could take anything Dorn made, it just would end up being cost ineffective.

As far as I am concerned the Tzeentch/Khorne/Nurgle birthed by man is either old antiquated horseshit or that idea of "everything you read is canonical, but not everything you read is true". It's not just human-centric to make mankind responsible for 3 gods but also ridiculous on the logic of it: The bloodshed of the medieval period was minimal compared to antiquity or T'ang china (alright that's kinda medieval but usually Genghis gets the Khorne treatment). The Black Plague might work for Nurgle but Justinian's plague was plenty devastating and the epidemics of the new world likely eclipsed the black plague in lethality. And intrigue, conspiracies and backstabbing? It's not like Machiavelli's Italy had a monopoly on this and mankind prior was as stiff and blunt as Rogal-the-autist.

The War in Heaven has to have been the cause of Khorne's birth. It's the fucking thing which made the warp such a miserable hellhole to begin with. And it can have a hand in the cause of the other two.

If mankind is the reason why three of them were born and not any number of other planetary species or interplanetary wars between the War in Heaven and middle ages then mankind has to have had some kind of super special warp footprint. Yet we had fuck all for psykers. So what other variable can explain the specialness of that moment and our species?

Funny part is, a lot of the design decision sprang from this, and 40k ONLY makes sense when you take this old outdated lore into account: all of the Imperiums weapons are just industrial tools with only a few scattered examples of actual military hardware left. The exposed cabling on power suits and weapon power supply, the use of chainsaws and other industrial tools as weapons, the thin armor on "tanks" which are actually just tractors - the Imperium were originally a bunch of cavemen squatting in the shell of a post singularity society, with their scientific elite being a bunch of superstitious lunatic cargo cultists who would keep things exactly the same because they think that's how it works.

>Just how advanced was humanity during the DAoT?
>'I think Androich was twice this size once. Half of if looks like it was torn away by whatever created this cliff. There were weapons in the older days that could do it. Weapons of immesurable power. Tech-devices employed by both the Iron Men and the alliances that stood against their cybernetic revolt.'
>Oll remembered the horrors of Entropic Engines that ignited planets. Sun-snuffers that uncoiled like serpents the size of Saturns rings. Mechnivores ingesting data along with the cities that contained them and hurling continents into the heavens. Omniphage swarms stripping flesh from a billion bones in the blink of an eye.
>'Oh, those were the good old days. When war was something too colossal for human minds to comprehend. Not like the End War. The Warmasters Heresy is smaller thing, scaled for human and post-human brains. But it's bigger in some ways.'
>'Yes, bigger than the godlike struggles of the Cybernetic Revolt. Bigger in scope, bigger in its implications. More horrible because humanity can apprehend it and drive it.'
>Although he did not say so, Oll Persson believed that a Mechnivore had bitten Andrioch in two. A rogue unit perhaps. Though by that latter stage of the revolt almost all machines were rogue. Their Abominable Intelligence querulously hunting for friends but perceiving everything as enemies.
DAoT Humanity could stomps all the 40K faction technologically, barring a fully functional Necron Empire.

>If so, why didn't humans cleanse the galaxy during that time period?
They basically did. They weren't as xenophobic though, and didn't xenocide all that much (just enough to make plenty of aliens mad enough to get payback during the Long Night). Orks were a nonfactor. Their only betters were the Eldar Empire, who they infrequently skirmished with and supposedly lost to. Orks were a regularly purged fungal infestation. The Necron weren't around, but the Void Dragon influenced their tech.

In one of the HH books (can't remember which), The Emperor talks to Malcador to watch the Khan closely, because he suspects Jaghatai will turn soon. What is was that all about? Of all the Primarchs, why was the Emperor so suspicious of Khan?

Because nostalgiafags aside, the old lore doesn't make much sense.

The newer lore pretty much says the original 3 Chaos Gods were timeless while Slaanesh was from the highly psychic eldar's hedonism

Outside of Nids being from another galaxy nothing is known

DAoT Humans were above everybody save Eldar and Necrons. Eldar however were too self-focused to build as much as the Humans did and were content to just make sex machines basically, while the Necrons are scattered and sleeping

>a post singularity society, with their scientific elite being a bunch of superstitious lunatic cargo cultists
Does someone have that screecap about the Mechanicum been just a bunch of desperate guys trying to patch the rags of a overly fucked technologic culture? Some analogy about Mars being a library that was been burned over and over and populated by psychotic machines

>Their only betters were the Eldar Empire, who they infrequently skirmished with and supposedly lost to.
To add onto this, the Asurmen book states they pretty much left each other alone. It's Throneworld where a Shadowseer states they persevered against Humanity's "unliving legions."

Did the orks make the pimeorks in response to primarchs or was that just a really funny coincidence?

So we know the startide nexus is a wormhole now thanks to the Tau codex leaks/reviews.

Do we know if it only goes between two points or is an actual multi-point thing hence the name nexus.

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Eldar could have probably defeated DAoT-era humanity but while humans were exploring the stars and building wonders, Eldars were having orgies and BDSM dungeons

Thanks.

As much as I hate what I perceive to be the old lore explanation of the triumvirate Chaos gods (it might be new lore for all I know) I much prefer that anachronistic stuff you describe. It's all ersatz leftovers with some of the rarest stuff (Titans, behnbledes) being run of the mill average back in the day. I also like the allowance of slowly having discovered STCs to justify technological creep/innovation.

>My caste-boys got them FTL and can expand.

Praise Sigm- the greater good.

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My assumption is that sometimes the humans got too close to the Eldar’s lawn, and acted too confidently/aggressively, and that the Eldar would throw their crazy magic that the Humans didn’t understand at all and Wraithbone construct legions at the Men of Iron. The outcome was proabably mass destruction and both sides saying “fuck this shit”. Humanity because the galaxy is a big place with plenty of places to settle, and the Eldar because they were busy trying to see how sex while peeling their own skin off felt.

Because nobody really knew the Khan. He was incredibly distant and nobody knew what he was thinking at times. He and the Scars were always far from the rest of the Imperium, and were unknowable. He also had a thing against tyrants - were there not a worse form of tyranny in the form of Horus/Chaos, he might of eventually rebelled.

Has any dreadnought tried to commit suicide

Chaos Dreds have to be physically restrained so they don't kill everyone else and themselves

Imperial Dreadnoughts are treated with the utmost respect and spend most of their time sleeping

It's called deepstriking into enemy lines yes

What do the other chapters think of the numarines?
I know the blood angel and flesh tearer commanders are fighting over them at leastn

It varies from chapter to chapter but the vast majority are accepting them.

Understand the context. The galaxy is fucked, literally everyone needs reinforcements and the chapters are stretched thin. Then a PRIMARCH shows up and offers you reinforcements of these spiffy new Marines who will fit into YOUR command structure and answer to YOU and you can also upgrade your own men and equipment. Most would take that offer. Most couldn't afford not to. Only the most stubborn, secretive, or wierd of chapters would reject the infusion of fresh blood and materials for culture reasons. The newboys can be brought up to speed, Emperor knows there's enough fighting for trials by fire

>The edict was to disband the librarians which the space wolves technically didn't had any
Again bullshit. The edict says that the legions will no longer use psykers outside of astropaths and navigators. Putting the librarians back into units was just one aspect of the edict of Nikaea which the wolves should also have followed but did not. The Wolves were not exempt from this command they just ignored it like most everyone else because it was retarded.

The fuck you talking about? Russ received his orders from the Emperor and was sailing to Prospero before Horus even heard Russ was leaving. Horus after hearing from Fulgrim that Russ was being sent to pick Magnus up shat himself because he knew Magnus knew he had fallen and got in contact with Russ and told him he'd been using sorcery and got him all pissed off. Nowhere does it state Horus ordered Russ to Kill Magnus he just convinced him thats what the emperor really wanted and Magnus deserved.

Sanguinius tried but they ended up with a sudden and fatal case of being in the way of Nassir Amit

If they're calling it a nexus I reckon it's safe to assume they can find their way anywhere in spacetime now.
Expect some hilarity to ensue once they figure out the "-time" part.
>yfw the Ethereals actually wrote themselves into existence and the Eldar were a red herring

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Who proceeded to hate himself for It. Ffs they stopped Sanguinius from stripping him of his rank after he already threw him to the ground and threatened to stab him through the fucking neck for saying horus was a traitor. They had his back on that, saved his ass, he goes red thirst and hates himself after. Requires Azkellon to lie to his own fucking primarch about how they died, because they both knew Sangy would blame himself and tell Russ, and they didn't want their gene-dad to feel like an ass hole about his dumas kid killing his brothers kids.

What even are these things?
And are Nekron just Tomb Kings from the future? Who is their Nagash?

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What marine squadron do I need to paint to have cuties like this in my team?

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That's a Lord of Change, a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch.