/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Les Mysteres. They are controlled by Spirits. And possibly the Pure.

The Lucifuge. They are controlled by demons.

I always assumed they were secretly vampire bait. One figured "I need a way to control the upper crust AND make money out of it AND kill a few people I dn't like. Hey, I have an idea."

Malleus Maleficarum They are controlled by God.

The Ascending Ones. They are controlled by the Strix.

The Knights of St. George. They are controlled by an abyssal angel.

Since we are talking Hunter here. There are Hunter organisations based off of US Evangelical Christians, Catholic Christians, and Anglican Christians. What would groups based on European Lutheran Christianity, various Orthodox denominations and Calvinism look like?

The VASCU. They are controlled by the eldritch monstrosity known as the US government.

I like the Loyalists of Thule for classic bookworm action and getting pissed when someone mentions Nazi, and the ascending ones for the interplay between a spiritual side and a street gang side.

>TF:V

Those, otoh, I can't stand. Then again, I'm not American.

The Hototogisu. They are controlled by Kitsune.

Who are you all kidding? Everyone knows that a wizard or fang are secretly pulling the strings for all those Conspiracies.

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God, I cannot wait until they ditch that boring psychic powers bit and just go full jojo.

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>Those, otoh, I can't stand. Then again, I'm not American.

Neither am I.
Admittedly, I love them mostly as antagonists. Nothing worries my players more than the fact that any moment uncle Sam can kick down the door and start shooting up the place with tech that may or may not work.

The Knights of St. Adrian. They are controlled by the God-Machine.

I've always thought it'd be neat to see someone making a serious attempt at a Jewish hunter group. It just sounds so out there.

Not really. Kabbalistic low mages makes sense.

Do plain humans control any of the Conspiracies?

Depends on your definition of plain humans.

As antagonist they're fine. As characters I cannot see them past gunwank and fuck yeah.

Nah.

Yeah. I kinda agree there. But then again, I read the Hunter books as little more than a monster manual.
They are my favourite go-to low-mid antagonists in stories.

I could actually see it going a number of different ways.

1. Jewish mystics/rabbis banding together to fight the forces of darkness [probably with a focus on prometheans and/or wraiths, for the golem/dybbuk angles], with endowments based on Jewish mysticism.
2. Something based more directly on biblical figures like the prophets or the judges, with more primal, Old-Testament God given powers than the Malleus Maleficarum.
3. Something related to Mossad/Israeli special forces/intelligence, with a more espionage focused, high tech shtick. Basically TF:V but less outright firepower and more assassinations and sabotage.
4. Something like a loose international organization of lawyers and bankers (hear me out here) who have gotten a head of the supernatural by noting all the financial and legal weirdness surrounding the actual conspiracies, who try using their mental and social resources to sabotage their efforts. Admittedly this sounds a lot more like an idea for a Compact than a Conspiracy, and it isn't *strictly speaking* "Jewish", but you knew it was coming.

That'd be cool, but what reason would you use Angels from a Christian Heaven to help out in a Western Umbral Court?

The protocols of the elders of zion was, like the (((critics))) always claimed, a work of lazy plagiarism. It just detailed their methods for hunting monsters with some bits changed around to make them look even worse.

And also their secret plot for crushing the filthy goy, of course. By joining, you're an honorary jew. You'll be spared.

>Something like a loose international organization of lawyers and bankers (hear me out here) who have gotten a head of the supernatural by noting all the financial and legal weirdness surrounding the actual conspiracies
I actually really like that. You got all those illuminati types like the Invictus and Cheiron Group and the Seers of the Throne always being depicted solving their every problem by throwing money at them. Legions of white collar professionals must be involved in each of their operations, sooner or later it's inevitable SOMEONE will notice something's off.

>*cough* CofD Zions of Lion *cough*

>Brucato triggered

>Dave! These fuckers are a massive criminal conspiracy! And nobody noticed? What the FUCK?
>Bernie, calm down. Let me show you how to up your salary.

And then he's being framed for a pyramid scheme.

If I recall it correctly Dark Ages: Darkening Sky has actual information on the Thor Umbrood, Valhalla and relevant realms

ayy lmao

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Contagion Chronicle will definitely be Option #1.

Can CofD mages leave their own universe and go into alternate ones?

Let's say the existence of just one particular splatbook group (i.e. vampires, werewolves, mages, Technocratic Union etc.) gets revealed in the in-game world. What would be the reaction of the world upon such a reveal? Keep in mind it's just that splat existing unto itself with no others coexisting, to make this simpler. And if you could, please, skip the obligatory [use one of splat's powers to make everyone forget about them all over again], I'd be grateful. I'm just curious to see what you think will be the worldwide reaction to such a supernatural reveal.

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Changelings being revealed as real would probably kill a substantial amount of the population due to all the Banality, but then the minority of Changelings left would become doused in Glamour as wonder comes back to the world.

Imagine if every faction had to war over one splatbook being revealed, without knowing whose it is or that it's just a splatbook (all they know is 'A Tome of Truth will be disseminated').

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If vampires were revealed it might prompt mankind (if it was ignorant enough) to try to hunt all of them off, when enough fledglings/neonates got killed the bloodbath would awaken the Antediluvians and you'd have Gehenna

Let's take a look:

- Ashwood Abbey is just a bunch of sick fucks.
- Barrett Commission is limited by the law, taxpayer money and the constraints of the office.
- Bear Lodge is probably helped by the Pure to hunt other woofs.
- Division Six is a Seers plot.
- Habibti Ma'at (that's the correct spelling) is only one encounter short of getting steamrolled by a cult of some kind.
- Illuminated Brotherhood is controlled by whoever provides the drugs.
- Keepers of the Source are hippies turned domestic terrorists who know shit all about magic.
- Long Night is controlled by the rich conservatives who pay the bills.
- Loyalists of Thule have some weird fortune telling thing in their basement, also haunted by their past (and NEVER doubt the willpower of a German trying to make amends for what the Nazis did).
- Maiden's Blood Sisterhood is controlled by a witch (and probably struggles with BLM advocates and other social extremists getting in the way of their vampire hunt).
- Network Zero only continues to exists by the grace of whoever has access to the dirty bomb they have.
- Night Watch only lasts until city officials crack down on "urban" violence.
- Null Mysteriis is too busy with scientific dick measuring to achieve anything.
- Promethean Brotherhood is controlled by those with access to the ritual.
- Talbot Group will be destroyed once the Forsaken find out where they keep the werewolves they "deprogram".
- Union is powered by the paychecks of their members.

- Aegis Kai Doru is the front for a Mummy cult.
- Ascending Ones are at risk of having fundamentalist muslims take over.
- Cainite Heresy lives or dies by the grace of their mysteirous backer.
- Cheiron group is controlled by aliens.
- Knights of Saint George are backed by Abyssal spirits.
- Les Mysteres is backed by spirits.
- Lucifuge is controlled by the Lucifuge herself.
- Malleus Maleficarum has a ghoul leader.
- VALKYRIE is paid by vampires.

And that's only a fraction of them.

Could a fully aware Humanity take out an Antediluvian? Assuming other splats don't interfere.

I'm assuming everyone has a rough idea of their capabilities/desires.

Werewolves are going to become super soldiers. "SUre, we'll tune up this EPA law, no issues. We'll even put you in charge of enforcement. Just, uh, here. Sign this contract. Wear this tracker."

Wizards would be under surveillance 24/7, and not being undersurveillance would be a crime punishable by death.

Vampires would be exterminated, maybe allowed to live in very limited numbers. Anyone who couldn't eat animals and wasn't useful would be slammed into torpor, a tap jammed into them for ghoul-elixir.

Hunters would go to jail en-mass. Many would quietly disappear and re-appear in, surprise, the military or police forces as a special unit.

Mummies would go 50/50 - some nations would kill on sight, others would sign them up as citizens and try to push them into government roles as troubleshooters. Nobody wants an undying horror in charge, even if Ma'at tells them not to be a pack of cockbags.

Very unlikely, even in Gehenna, which had the Withering going on and the Antediluvians were severely crippled in power by God, they still brought mankind to their heel. Russian military managed to kill a Withering-weakened Methuselah that was serving an Antediluvian then a few hours later the Antediluvian infiltrated and had all of Russia's nuclear arsenal go off on Russia itself

The Tzimicse antediluvian scenario, makes me feel sorry for NYC. Just, one gigantic flesh beat was bad enough, now you've got 3-6 horrors screaming through the place with an unending thirst and the power of minor gods. And daddy coming to put the smack down before God can start tormenting him again.

If you've read Becket's Jyhad Diary you'd know the antedeluvians are vastly less powerful like they pretend to be.

They're still horribly powerful but basically nothing from the Gehenna scenarios of old could actually happen.

Oh, and demons would prove that the jesus freaks were right this whole time because they are so *blatantly* christian, and most of society would breka down and the gehenna scenario starts early. Except Lucifer is masturbating the entire time.

Enemy action pls.

If they had some kind of advance warning, I bet, yeah. It'd be a scenario of mutual slaughter though.

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Fucking retcons. That entire book is a mess.

>If you've read Becket's Jyhad Diary you'd know the antedeluvians are vastly less powerful like they pretend to be.
A reference to this? Because if Saulot, even in BJD, upon awakening has a potential plot scenario where he can devour all Seven Counsilors, then the rest of the Vienna's chantry quite effortlessly it speaks for their power

>oWoD
- Vampire: This is what kicks off Crucible of God. Masquerade breaks, vampires start being hunted down, when enough die the Antediluvians wake up. Humanity is fucked, something something magic mormon floppy disc, Tzimisce plays out Instrumentality, the PCs get eaten and they become the next Antediluvians while Caine screams at god.
- Werewolf: Pentex would be fucked. We get a mix of Weaver Ascendant and The Last Battleground apocalypse scenarios.
- Mage: Magic would be utterly fucked in the first few phases, but after that all magic might become non-vulgar. After that there will be a full-on war between the Technocrats and everyone else.
- Wraith: Ghosts are real, but they can't hurt us. Groups like the ones from Orpheus might get paid big time, cults spring up.
- Changeling: Depending on who gets to see them first Banality will destroy them or the boost in Glamour will make them more powerful than ever. So it's either a final winter or a new spring.
- Hunter: Could end up either jailed/killed thanks to the machinations of their enemies or receive government backing, fucking monsters up big time.
- Mummy: People will try and capture them to coax the secrets of immortality from them. Would not end well.
- Demon: Lucifer actually does this in the metaplot for Demon.

>nWoD
- Vampire: Vampires would be fucked, except there's no Gehenna.
- Werewolf: Forsaken would become the spirit equivalent of ICE, cults and other groups backed by the Pure would turn against them because no spirit is illegal etc.
- Mage: If everybody Awakens the Exarchs would've lost, many Seers jump ship to join the winning team again.
- Promethean: Some Prometheans will be turned into WMD while others will be subjected to psychological testing to make the New Dawn a hell of a lot easier. The rituals to make Prometheans will be confiscated and tested upon.
- Changeling: Will there be traps for the True Fae laid in our world? Will there be full-on invasions into Arcadia? Or will the Changelings all be killed and walls be built?
- Hunter: Hunters will all either go to prison, get killed or at best lose their jobs.
- Geist: Some Sin-Eaters might be captured and forced to work as mediums, while others become rich and famous. Others would just escape into the Underworld.
- Mummy: Aside from killing their entire cult and either burying the Mummy in concrete or shooting their coffin into space, you ain't stopping a Mummy.
- Demon: The secret of the God-Machine comes out as well. It then reverses time to undo whatever caused the reveal.
- Beast: Monsters are real and they'll fuck you up. Huh, wouldn't that mean that the Dark Mother just won?
- Deviant: A lot of companies would go under, a lot of governments would fall.

>Immortals splats: But WHY won't you tell us how you did it?
Cainite Heresy - aren't they just secretly backed by the Strix or VII or both anyway?

Are they backed by the Strix? Yes. Are they backed by VII? Yes. Are they backed by Caine, the first vampire? Yes. Long story short, the Cainite Heresy is a dangerous cult even if you're not a vampire. And no, you don't get to bang the crazy vampire killing chicks if you're not part of them.

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I think user was headcannon'ing, Saulot is still pretty powerful

New Geist 2e preview, The Reapers!

theonyxpath.com/the-dead-belong-below-geist-the-sin-eaters/

Sounds like we got ourselves a neat new antagonist. Their ability to straight up literally tear down parts of the world and sinkhole them with everything living and dead inside it into the Underworld is pretty spooky.

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For that matter, they didn't retcon the older Methuselahs like Ur-Shulgi or Baba Yaga or Hazimel being absurdly powerful either.

Reapers - allies or enemies of Moros and other Death mages?

Don't destroyed objects get dragged into the underworld naturally?

Depends on what the Moros intends to do with ghosts and the dead. They're probably even "allies" (probably too strong of a word in most cases) of the Sin-Eaters that go out of their way to have ghosts move on into the Underworld.

Neither. They're a feature of the underworld. Like spirit courts in the shadow to a Thyrsus.

Reaper: "Damn, even when those mages aren't causing problems, they're still douches!"

Not 100% sure, might only be items of value or importance to multiple people that are down there.

I really, really fucking hope Geist 2e is amazing.
Don't burn me on this OPP, we know you can make good stuff despite all your best efforts.

>2e of anything
kek no

Geist was a pretty good game that was hampered by poor support and nobody giving a shit. It's kind of like oWoD Mummy that way.

... I wonder if they're going to do a Mummy20 in a few years. Would be a rather simple book with little background stuff to borrow from.

plz no
Brucatto will get my baby
HE WILL GET MY BABY
I don't WANT 50 pages on why fucking a corpse is bad and that all mummies are technically psychic rapists. I don't want them to become turbomuslims.

With the new Geist update, now is a great time to celebrate it with posting the Enemy Action pdf...

Demon is vaguely 2e and that's one of nWoD's best lines. Mage had some good shit aside from the yantra autism. Nigga just let me hope Geist won't be a mess

To be fair, the Union managed to get a US president elected.

I have faith, anons. The game about second chances will prove itself on its second chance.

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Saulot is dead and broken in three, only one third is malevolent and he cant do anything aside from manipulate the watcher sect of the salubri.

Ur-Shulgi's most powerful sorcery amounted to causing the rebel assamites to frenzy once.

Baba Yaga is dead because she had a bane.

Literally all over the book, the entire pont of the diary was to show that the Jyhad is a lie and has no power, the Antedeluvians do not actually matter and the time of Thin Blood is just the genesis of new clans.

The book ends with Becket finding Enoch, the still living 2nd generation after fighting the entire Red List together with a bunch of archons and the Lasombra antedeluvian waking up to finish off the red listers. The Antedeluvian does that all the time, its just a dungeon beast.

Tzimisce's fleshcrafting plague was countered by a 6th gen tremere's magic.

Malkav exists but is without form, and the actual problem is his twin sister whom is an antedeluvian without a clan.

Absillimard hides because he doesn't want to be killed by the Nosferatu, not because of any autistic monster lair plotting.

Tzimisce gave up and rebuilt itself as the Cathedral of Flesh, again.

The Ravnos woke up a 4th gen paragon to bitchslap the antedeluvian back into a coma, the entire Week of Nightmares was just a big chimestry con.

Turns out caitiff are exempt from gehenna and any vampire can become caitiff with rituals.

Turns out there is a 16th generation.

Turns out thin bloods spontaniously thicken their blood and reduce their generation over time and evolve into brand new clans.

Turns out Caine never cursed the clans, it was the antedeluvians to stop them from offing them for their sins.

Turns out the Sabbat burnt out since no apocalyptic gehenna happened, gehenna is cyclical and vampires are hysterical.
Turns out the Camarilla shat itself and is now the pet project of Enoch to build a true vampire society.

And the Anarchs have become the most powerful sect.

Not even the cool kind of demons

Oh, so the entire book was just a fucking mess then, deciding to completely disregard anything like common sense or previous canon.

A group that powerful would probably have some creep invade it sooner than later. Unless they had some way to detect evil and know their leader ain't right

Even then, they probably would get that power from their evil leader.

Tfv is the best hope.

>Tfv is the best hope

It's canon that TF:V is controlled by vampires.

It addressed the previous canon. It just decided not to end the setting with a load of shit.

Also Demons are free despite the sixth maelstrom never happening.
The True Black Hand still exists but its rife with double conspiracies from lilith worshippers to holy Baali.

Dracula is about to kill Kupala permanently and possibly redeem the entire clan.

Salubri is a mess because he lost golconda and because he did the same thing Enoch did and put his evil into a separate entity, thats how he was the founder of the Baali.

Vampires in Golconda are always on the brink of falling.

New sects are rising, an entire sect of necromancers with the exemption of Giovanni.

The Cappadocians are back, not the Harbingers of the Skull but the proper clan.

Its possible to voluntarily raise generation to lower the generation of someone else, this is common knowledge and practice amongst the african vampires and this thing causes elders to be far more fresh and humane. They theorize the antedeluvians are fucked up because they selfishly hoard their power and go insane because of it.

It directly contradicts previous canon. The last one ended it because it was supposed to be an end. This just seems like they turned a shitload of yaoi shippers loose on it.

>It directly contradicts previous canon.

Yes, because that canon was bad and lead nowhere, the game is not dead and pre-2000 doomsday mongering aged like milk.

You can hate it but this is VtM canon, if you dont like it go play VtR.

GIEF NIGHT HORRORS: AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PLOX

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>Game literally ended in an apocalypse they'd been building to since the first book
>BUT NOW ITS FINE AND NOBODY LIKES IT ANYWAY

They are controlled by an ordinary ghoul.

>literally using V5 to make your case
Lul

>BUT NOW ITS FINE AND NOBODY LIKES IT ANYWAY

This is correct, and Gehenna was never more then a myth and paranoid fear amongst vampires that did not actually know anything about it. It was the same in the dark ages. It was the same in antiquity. It was the same in the time of Enoch.

Gehenna isn't real, neither is the Jyhad, its all the paranoid tantrums of vampires too weak to live, and whom prefer simply to exist.

The actual movers and shapers of vampire-kind are the neonates, and antedeluvians and gehenna matters exactly as much as global warming or a meteor strike does.

Gehenna is a spook, so are antedeluvian, elders and the jyhad. And it always was like that but only golconda seekers found out about it, now its common knowledge. Enter 5e.

Actually v20, written by Onyx Path and confirmed by White Wolf.

Again, you might want to get into VtR if you cant handle VtM lore.

>And the Anarchs have become the most powerful sect.
Page from a V20 book that confirms this please

Anarchs unbound, BJD, 5e VtM.

The Camarilla almost completely collapsed due to internal fighting and a tide of paranoia, also because Enoch took over from behind the scenes.

The Sabbat went into the Gehenna Crusade to hunter elders in the Middle-East due to Zilleah's call summoning antedeluvians, metuselah and elders from world over. But due to the Regent turning out to be a tzimisce neonate and that Gehenna turned out to not be a cataclysmic last battle and noddist lore turning out to be false much of the covenant collapsed and folded into the uprising of the Anarchs whom organized from various island free states and headquarters using modern technology. Lucita de Aragon is the current leader of the Sabbat's remnants. The Sabbat and the Camarilla are the two minor default player sects now and the Anarchs are the default antagonists whom are shitting up "society" for vampires.

Anatole apparently lives and has not been diablerized. Lucita has joined the Sabbat. Okulos has been freed from Kaymakli.
Elders all around the world leave for the Beckoning which draws them to the Middle East. The Sabbat prepares the Gehenna Crusade.
The Red Star appeared and vanished.
The Great Leap Outward has either not happened yet in full force, or the Anarchs retook large swaths of the former Mandarinate. The betrayals of Garcia and Tara have not yet happened, Vannevar Thomas is still Prince of San Francisco. The events of Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines have still happened.
Baba Yaga has been destroyed.
Giangaleazzo has defected from the Sabbat and is the Prince of Milan. The status quo of Vancouver has not changed.
New York is a Camarilla city, Atlanta and Washington, D.C are Sabbat cities.
The Gangrel have a new Justicar despite Xaviar's decision to withdraw. The Assamite Schism has not yet happened.
Thin-bloods have stabilized and vampires of the 16th generation have appeared.
The Tremere antitribu have been destroyed, except for anarchs.
Kupala has been released in the end of the Transylvania Chronicles, but has not yet made a move.
The Tal'Mahe'Ra is still active. The Sixth Maelstrom has not happened.
The events of the Clan Novel Trilogy Brujah and Gehenna: The Final Night apparently did not happen.
The Week of Nightmares either did not happen or was severely overestimated in its lethality.
Bezariel acts as an Earthbound and has his three underlings as detailed in Demon: Earthbound; implying that the Fallen managed to free themselves without the Sixth Maelstrom.

None of that is in V20, just in unpublished and still subject to change V5, like I first argued; still waiting for a V20 page that confirms the Anarchs are now the dominant sect

Gehenna is fuckin terrible.

The only good thing about it is that it demonstrates that a war of humanity against VASTLY WEAKENED vampires would result in the latter winning

Also the Trinity is back as Michael and Mary the Black have become one. Mithras ate the soul of the black guy that diablerized him from the inside out, apparently he does this every so often to keep unlife interesting.

>time of Thin Blood is just the genesis of new clans.

But why would they do this? The writers/developers, I mean. I don't want a new clan. I'm fine with Lasombra and Tzimisce. I don't give a shit about new-age faggots that won't even have any sort of history and lore behind them.

Yeah, if they want to add new stuff they can make bloodlines. That's what those are for.

because there needs to be a reason for their existence? Nothing about the old gen system made sense, like the weak and least fittest vampires inevitably proliferating over the strongest. Cyclical Gehenna is all that makes sense.

Also its BY FAR the only thing interesting about the Withercuck scenario -- the PCs winding up as new clan founders.