Scion

Reading through the Scion 2e Hero preview, and the change to the writeup of the Gods is interesting.

1e followed a formula of "Historical paragraph, modern paragraph, paragraph about their Scions." The 2e one gives barely a sentence or two to the Scions and how the God affected them personality-wise. I don't know if they're going for a more, "doesn't matter who your parent is, anybody can be anything," vibe, but it's what I'm picking up.

Mostly starting the thread hoping Arthurian-user has some more to post

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Also, all the Norse Gods are way more peaceful than in 1e. They're not belligerent at all; Thor, Tyr, and Njord are all described as basically over-the-hill and quiet on the World front, with Thor fighting the giants every winter out of obligation rather than a love of battle.

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I have a plan for a different system for Scion, based on Talislanta. tldr you roll a d20, add (Attribute+Epic Attribute, one point per dot of each), subtract the difficulty, and compare to this chart.

Are skills worth keeping in this? It would add an extra thing to add on every roll, and 1-5 is not a huge boost past Hero, compared with 1-20 from your Attributes.

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Gimme a few hours. Been a crazy week

Then the thread remains afloat.

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R8 my qt3.14 foxy waifu:


Character Concept: Kitsune Waifu
Tier: Hero
Legend: 1
Pantheon: Amatsukami
-Virtue: Sincerity/Right Action 1
Deeds:
-Short-Term: Expression: Create a work of art
-Long-Term: Duty: Find a man worthy of settling down for

Origin Path: Raised in "Gensokyo" (Terra Incognita: Culture, Survival, Occult)
Role Path: Party Girl Seductress (Subterfuge, Empathy, Persuasion)
Pantheon Path (Supernatural): Child of Inari (Close Combat, Culture, Persuasion)

Skills:
Close Combat 4 (Swords), Culture 3 (Japanese Culture), Empathy 3 (Discerning Attraction), Occult 3 (Yokai), Persuasion 5 (Seduction), Subterfuge 4 (Disguises), Survival 1

Attributes:
Favored Approach: Finesse
Reason 2, Might 2, Presence 4; Cunning 3, Dexterity 4, Manipulation 5; Resolve 2, Stamina 3, Composure 3.

Calling: Kitsune 1, Healer 1, Lover 1, Trickster 2
Keywords: Beauty, Wife, Succor, Wit, Disguise
Knacks: Dress for Success, Immunization Booster, Fluid Appeal, Doppelganger
Legendary Titles: Beautiful Gem of Modernity

Birthrights: Relic 4 (Magatama of Beauty, Purviews: Passion (Love), Beauty; Motif: "Inner beauty shines through"), Guide 1 (Tengu), Relic 2 (Wind Blade: Purview: Sky, Motif: "A light breeze cuts deepest", Weapon: Melee, Lethal, Versatile, Concealable)

Purviews: Eight Million Kami, Fertility (Innate), Passion (Love; Motif: "Sensuality, passion, and desire"), Beauty, Sky
Boons: Lasting Impression, Irresistable Impulse

So she's both raised in a Terra Incognita, but also a Gem of Modernity?

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She left the Terra Incognita for a reason: she wanted to experience the modern world. ;)

Also, her Legendary Title is a reference to Tamamo no Mae, whose name literally translates to something like "Beautiful Gem of History", IIRC.

I may not be Arthurian user, but I wrote up a pantheon based (loosely) on the new gods from American Gods.

Attached: new gods scion.pdf (PDF, 87K)

The writeup of the Devas is super weird. I get it, you don't want to offend modern Hindus, but they're literally half-prayers, half-nonsense cribbed together from a dozen myths of loosely connected Incarnations.

I can't understand what the heck is going on, and I'm half-Indian.

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Does someone have the bookmarked version of Origin?

Just wait until they do the Abrahamic Pantheon, if they ever do. In Scion, every myth and religious belief is true, after all, even the contradictory ones.

It's not so much that everything is true, it's that it's written in some lilting sing-song chant that doesn't convey any useful information.

Who's Odin? King of the Norse Gods, sacrificed an eye for wisdom and hung from a tree for knowledge, Incarnates and does things like run telecom companies and ferries, taking decisive action. His Scions are expected to get wisdom and work hard. Bing bang boom.

Compare that to the shenanigans of Indra's writeup, which throws in circular creation myths, hypothetical connections to three other pantheons, and namedrops 11 different divine beings and places, of which only half get mentioned again in any way that would allow you to understand what the heck they mean. And that's all in the first paragraph!

What info does it give that would actually be helpful for the game? Apparently he's a smug annoyance who bothers other chief gods, which I guess will come up in high-tier God if the Storyguide feels the need for a scene about the boorish Indian guy bothering other pantheons, and he will show up and take credit when his Scions do something great, which will be handy for pissing off players. Not a single lick of info about what sort of traits he passes on to his Scions or expectations of their dharma, other than the bare facts of Callings and Purviews.

It's maddening.

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Any ideas for their virtues and their Pantheon-Specific Purview?

I like the idea of their purview being based on something close to "staying in your lane": forcing Mortals to ignore Scion activities, forcing implicit flaws on legendary entities based on callings/titles/so on (So like, making fighter characters dumber or trickster characters weaker), and maybe a Shen-like effect for trappings of the modern world (so a Scion of Economy can walk across a highway without fear of traffic hitting him, for example. ) Maybe have an ability that imposes complications on enemies using modern effects against them (guns, cars, motorcycles, etc)

Side note: The Man should definitely have War as a purview as well.

That's part of his ongoing narrative: The Man protects you from the Terror, deploying force to oppose their chaotic efforts. Plenty of pantheons have Gods sharing purviews.

I'm pretty sure Mother Earth is just another name for Gaea, and she's a Titan associated with the Theoi.

>Lanka is basically Roanapur-meets-Gensokyo
Touhou Lagoon campaign when?

A little over halfway done with the individual Knight writeups now.

Attached: ArthurianPantheonInProgress.pdf (PDF, 89K)

Am I the only one that completely disagrees with the book interpretation of the Theoi?

If respect for all cultures is supposed to be a defining principle of the games development, why do I feel a current of contempt for the Theoi in everything written about them in this book?

Because half the legends of them involve them acting like dicks.

Like literally all gods in all myths, my dude.

The Teotl are ravening cannibals hungry for human blood.

The Kami are stuck up assholes that would damn the world to darkness out of pride.

The Deva support a morally reprensible caste system.

Etc...

>The Kami are stuck up assholes that would damn the world to darkness out of pride.
Only if there is insufficient amounts of partying.

I don't know precisely how you could justify "completely" disagreeing with the book's interpretation of them.

I just read over their section in Hero, and it's not like there's any lies in it, from a mythological standpoint, other than MAYBE the idea that Apollo doesn't like biological warfare.

Every "mean" thing I read in there is canon.

There's a couple famous lines from the Iliad that really illustrate how fucked up the Gods were.

Ares was viewed as basically a thug and a punk, as evidenced when he went crying back to Olympus after being stabbed during the Trojan War and Zeus says "if you weren't my fucking kid, I'd have kicked you out of Olympus ages ago."

Zeus himself ends an argument with Hera by saying "Bitch, if I started choking you, NO ONE COULD STOP ME. If you put every God in Olympus on one side of a bottomless pit, and me on the other, and we played tug-of-war, you would ALL go in the hole."

This is, as a reminder, a war STARTED because three Goddesses couldn't peacefully resolve an argument, went and found a mortal judge, and IMMEDIATELY ALL BRIBED HIM.

The Theoi don't come off as good "people" in their own damn stories.

In the Teotl's defense, depending on the era, it's not that they're HUNGRY for blood, it's that blood is the ultimate power source and they NEED it to keep things working correctly.

Like, at least some of the time, their sun god is the guy who SET HIMSELF ON FIRE to keep the world warm, and your sacrifices to him keep him from burning out.

>This is, as a reminder, a war STARTED because three Goddesses couldn't peacefully resolve an argument, went and found a mortal judge, and IMMEDIATELY ALL BRIBED HIM.

Personally, if I were in that position, I would have refused the bribes and asked instead for assurances that the goddesses wouldn't take revenge for the slight of not being chosen.

Then I would have picked Artemis or Hestia, because by not thinking herself the most beautiful, she showed humility, and that's a more attractive trait in a wife than physical appearance is.

You know, the whole "take the third option" decision when presented with two unpalatable options. Well, fourth option, in this case.

I personally enjoy the utter lack of secrecy with the bribes. Like, they just straight up said "Look, here's what I can offer."

It reminds me in some countries it's considered perfectly legal to bribe people, you just have to keep records of it, because that shit is taxable.

> they don't come off as good people in their own stories.

None of the gods should. They are artifacts of ages were what Zeus was doing there was not only perfectly acceptable, but outright Just.

Remember, he is the God of Justice as the book conveniently forgets.

All gods of all Pantheons should be like that, because all gods of all Pantheons have the exact same problem.

They come from ages in which that kind of thing was the norm and considered the moral good.

Not even those gods which are worshipped today are exempt. The basis for their religions is still in times and cultures with morals that go against everything our cultures claim to stand for.

Basically I'm baffled that even the Aesir get whitewashed while the Theoi seem to be demonized and belittled.

>Basically I'm baffled that even the Aesir get whitewashed while the Theoi seem to be demonized and belittled.
Think about who wrote the book, then consider that one of Thor's big stories involves him crossdressing...

A lot of what you just said was pretty arguable.

The problem the Theoi face is that their culture didn't view them as the authors of morality, like, say, Egypt did. Egypt believed in ma'at, as a virtue and as a Goddess who presided over the affairs of men and Gods.

The Greeks acknowledged piety as a virtue, but not the sole one. In the original proposal of "Are things good because God commands them, or does God command them because they are good?" the Greeks FIRMLY landed on the latter side: that goodness is a trait that supercedes divine decree. Among the first listing of virtues, "temperance" was primary among those enumerated by the Greeks, a trait their Gods obviously failed to uphold continually.

Zeus's actions were NOT viewed expressly as Just. Zeus is the God of Justice because he smites those who break oaths made in his name. He punishes liars. The fact that he himself has engaged in deception did not revoke his authority, but rather it illustrated a kind of weakness on his own part.

The Melian Argument expressly points out that the Gods' intervention on the side of the just is hoped for, but not guaranteed, and certainly not within the natural order of things.

In the end, it's likely the mixed cultural history.

I've personally been invested in ancient mythology for decades, taken university classes in it, etc. I can't tell you a single story where Odin, for example, acts wrongly in a notable manner. The closest I can think of is the number of times the Aesir pull 'exact wording' tricks on people, or try to sabotage a rival's attempts to make good on a deal.

I can't tell you of any stories where Osiris acts in a matter that would have been offensive or 'lacking' to an ancient Egyptian audience.

In short, while many of the Gods' values are morally questionable or repugnant to a modern audience, the Theoi were among the few pantheons whose stories made them morally questionable during their time of worship.

And yet the Greeks still believed in piety and considered the things Zeus did just.

In that time that a man bedded women outside of marriage was shameful for his wife and only for his wife.

When Athena punished Arachne for being as good as her at weaving it was seen as just at the time. Because Arachne hailed from a city that was a commercial competitor to Athens and the story it was literally a publicity stunt.

There are philosophy texts about how the gods are actually moral arbiters and beyond mortal morality.

Hubris, or being stupid enough to believe yourself morally or materially equal to the gods was the worst thing you could do in myth.

Basically, that's a very superficial and anachronistic way of looking at Greek mythology. As critic of the gods morality is something that came pretty late in the game with philosophy and those words did it weren't exactly considered moral paragons in their time.

And let's not talk about the Roman side of the equation. People rarely understand how absurdly different things are in the Roman version.

Those who did it.

Where were you when Scion 2e became a game about fluffy tails getting kitsune PCs in trouble?

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Odin practiced Sydir, when only women were supposed to.

That was inmoral by Norse standards.

Making a Kitsune PC who can have their fluffy tail get them in trouble.

Thinking of an Inari-owned kitsune-themed maid cafe with real kitsune.

So, Iron Man armor in Scion. Thoughts?

Relic 2: Purview: Epic Strength; Motif: "The inevitable strength of the machine"; Knack: As Icarian Wings; Weapon (Repulsor blasts): Ranged, Aggravated, Pushing; Armor: Hard (2); Drawback: All difficulties to use increase by 1 for scene if exposed to EMP.

> Zeus was not viewed as explicitly just.

That doesn't matter user.

The point is that the Theoi are judged by our standards and the rest of the gods aren't.

It's hypocritical to say the least.

And weird. If it was Western cultural heritage what they are objecting to then they would target the Aesir and Thuata with their vitriol as well.

Needs smart missiles.

It's not explicitely the Theoi. It's ALL the pantheons who don't have active, living, religions in the world right now.

All of the "dead" religions come off as violent dicks, petty dicks, out of touch uncaring dicks, or all of the above.

Theoi, Aesir, Tautha, and Netjir, all get similar treatment, with a spin appropriate to their actual mythology.

Hell, the Shen, who ARE worshiped by a significant number of real people, STILL come off as an out of touch, clearly dysfunctional but refusing to change at all because it wasn't signed in triplicate, labyrinthine structure that's long outgrown its use.

This. They're not hungry cannibals (not least of which because they are gods, not humans). Blood makes the rocking world go round, and if they can't get enough of it everything ends. It's as morally reprehensible, yet necessary, as an oil war.

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Except that A) you would be super-smited for having the temerity to suggest that the Gods would be petty enough to take revenge on a mortal, and B) you would have also deeply insulted at least Hera, as humility was a prime virtue of wives and she was supposedly the ideal wife, as goddess of marriage. And in general insulted all three by going with a minor goddess who wasn't even competing, because you are such a great judge of character that you don't even need to see her to know that the three goddesses standing in front of you are lacking.

You would make a great companion story to Sisyphus, the dumb teenager who thinks he is so crafty he can insult all the gods and get away with it.

So does one of Achilles' stories. They both put on a disguise to get what they wanted, doesn't mean they were actually going through gender reversal or whatever deep meaning people attach to crossdressers. It's like saying all Scots are trans because they wear kilts.

And the harvest god is a guy who skinned himself to protect the corn.

>I can't tell you a single story where Odin, for example, acts wrongly in a notable manner.

Lying to the Fenrir Wolf about how they were going to play a fun game of "See if you can break this rope," when the intent was always to trap him. And cheating the giant who was building Asgard's walls, which isn't 'sabotaging attempts to make good on a deal' (which in itself is pretty wrong) so much as it is actively trying to ruin someone doing work for you because you don't want to pay him.

... you mean the lobby system?

>Relic 2
>Gives you Aggravated damage and flight, as well as armour
>Drawback is something that will never come up unless the GM specifically starts gunning for you

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And others man, don't forget Xipe Totec loves getting skin wherever he can.

Difference is he's made out of gold underneath.

Looks neat. A lot of Epic Strengths around the pantheon, which I guess is to be expected, but it was nice to see Kay had Purviews only.

Yeah. They're all knights with superhuman ability. So most of them will have an Epic X on their list, but I'm trying to mix it up

Zeus' actions were not constantly condoned by Greek morality, but rather his actions were beyond challenge because he was the King of the Gods.

You seem to have overlooked a key distinction, that of "greatness" versus "goodness". The Gods were unquestionably great, as they excelled in their dominions and ruled Creation. But this did not by extension make them unquestionably good, it only made it stupid to question or challenge their goodness where they could hear.

This is because early Greek virtue theory is very messy from a modern perspective. The Greek word for "virtue" (arete) is more accurately translated as "excellence" as in, "Jack excels at mathematics." It's a measure of SKILL, that then grew into the idea of "well, if you're good at what you're supposed to do, then it will probably work out in the end." It's not that a great warrior beating his wife was considered PART of his greatness, it was considered irrelevant to whether or not he was "great". He could be a great warrior and a bad husband.

Hubris was actually a more complex term, referring to inflicting shame upon others for one's own amusement, as well as arrogance, or insolence. Odysseus losing his cool and mocking Polyphemus after blinding him, revealing his actual name, is hubris, despite Odysseus not claiming any sort of divine equality while he does so.

>not giving lancelot all the purviews

Anyone?

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I don't know Talisanta very well, so my advice is questionable, but I'd probably keep Skills. Adding a stat mod and a skill mod to a d20 roll is pretty normal for most players, so it's not like it parses weirdly.

I'd argue there's no real reason to keep Attributes and Epics both going all the way to 10, since that was always kind of a weird call.

Have epics go to 10, normals cap at 5, and skills go to 5.

>not giving lancelot all the purviews
Mallory sucks Lancelot's dick enough.

My theory on keeping them both going to 10 was that it allowed a good division of power between Mortals (bonus of ~3, up to 8 with skills), Heroes (~5-10, up to 15 with skills), Demigods (~11-15, up to 20 with skills) and Gods (~16-20, up to 25 with skills). Good rolls allow lower tier characters to challenge higher tier ones, without it being doable with average rolls. Pulling out the skills allows me to save a lot of room on the character sheet without throwing off that math.

And what would be your system for advancement if you cap normals at 5, but allow epics to go to 10? Buy your way to 5 normal points, then you can just get as many Epics as you want?

>system for advancement
Firstly, I must confess. I made a dumb typo.

Have NORMALS go to 10, epics to 5.

Then you could either go "every 2 normal lets you get 1 Epic", or "every normal above 5 lets you get to an epic", or whatever.

I'm just saying that, given the way normals and epics worked, it was always weird to me that they both went to 10.

To be fair, Aggravated doesn't do that much in 2e. It's more a measure an "energy damage" modifier rather than "a step above Lethal"

It just landed in my mind that, since the Epic attributes are Purviews now, that means they can create Marvels.
That's...certainly something.

Have you ever broken a curse with your biceps?

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I actually read that comic just recently. It was a real trip.

What is it called?

so youre telling me that hack miyazaki stole from the mexicans got it

Flex Mentallo: Man of Muscle Mystery. It's a lot less pulp gonzo than it appears from these panels-- it's way more deconstructiony and metafictional. I enjoyed it, but it's a parody of things other than what it appears at first glance to be a parody of.

Not him but also read it recently: Flex Mentallo.

It's basically Grant Morisson saying fuck you to Edgy morality and people implying superheroes and happy endings are for children.

Here's another entry for now, trying to get some of the other knights fairly balanced against each other before I do a full write up of them. It's everyone's favorite wizard. No, not Gandalf.

Merlin
Aliases: Myrrdin, Merlin Ambrosius
The kingmaker, the wizard, the prophet, and the puppeteer, Merlin is a name that brings up images of mystery and magic. Merlin would first be called upon by Vortigern, the king of Britain before even Uther, to offer a magical solution to a routinely collapsing castle. After pointing out that they were building over groundwater, an observation with required absolutely no mystical skill, a pair of dragons burst from the ground and Merlin saw his vision of the years to come. He insinuated himself in Vortigern’s, and later Uther’s court in order to bring about the reign of Arthur, the boy who would save Britain. Merlin was the one who took the boy out of the walls of Camelot, to be raised among poor knights. Merlin was also the one to raise and teach the youth, imparting the lessons he would need. In the end, it was also Merlin who planted the sword in the stone and challenged Arthur to become the king that the world needed.
Merlin was born of a human mother and a demon father, and he was probably closer to being Titanspawn than a proper Scion. His successors are also commonly Denizens, or the immediate offspring thereof. Therianthropes, Satyrs, Kitsune, and even Cu Sith have all been Merlin in the past. They also are people who tend to be so caught up in the future that they have a hard time keeping up with the present. Merlin always arrives just a little late; the world spent five days in darkness before Merlin returned from his spirit journey with the sun and stars in hand.
Callings: Creator, Liminal, Sage
Purviews: Artistry, Forge, Fortune, Moon, Sky, Stars

>He insinuated himself in Vortigern’s, and later Uther’s court

I've always wondered if that possessive before the comma is right. "He insinuated himself into the court of Vortigern, and later that of Uther..." always felt more precise in conveying meaning up front.

I probably need to proofread all of this once I'm done. Any thoughts about the content?

A little odd that you didn't bring up how his Fate as a guide impacts his Scions, or his inevitable doom because he can't keep it in his pants.

>Lying to the Fenrir wolf
IIRC what they said was "do this and if we betray you you can bite off Tyr's arm". They did, and Fenrir did.

Good point. Replace the last paragraph with the following

>Merlin was born of a human mother and a demon father, and he was probably closer to being Titanspawn than a proper Scion. His successors are also commonly Denizens, or the immediate offspring thereof. Therianthropes, Satyrs, Kitsune, and even Cu Sith have all been Merlin in the past. Merlins rarely awaken alone into the world. Often, they are called several years in advance of another knight, which they will then mentor. Merlin often takes charge of Visitation, offering a prospective Scion a vision and one last chance to walk away from the destiny that awaits them. This preoccupation with the future translates into absentmindedness about the present. Caught up in his machinations, Merlin always arrives just a little late; the world spent five days in darkness before Merlin returned from his spirit journey with the sun and stars in hand.

I'm pretty sure they initially tried to just talk him into it, and he himself demanded one of the gods put their hand in his mouth, for which Tyr volunteered.

There's some repeated "oftens" in there. Again, proofreading and editing

Making a provision for betrayal doesn't make the betrayal not a betrayal. Contracts have punishment clauses if you break them, but you're expected to uphold them.

To the Old World it does.

The agreement is "we do X. If we can't or don't, Y." The forcing an opponent into having to fill the second half of the arrangement isn't deception or betrayal, it's just cunning.

I'm looking at knacks and I'm wondering if someone with Flatlander could use Glimpse the Other Side on themselves or an ally to avoid attacks.

I can't perfectly parse the new system, but I think Flatlander only triggers when you make a successful attack that scores hits above the opponent's Defense. You can't have a Clash of Wills with yourself, but if you aim for an ally and they fail to defend themselves and lose the Clash, then theoretically it could be used to avoid enemy attacks, but only at the cost of taking the damage of your own attack.

Not really worth the trade.

Am I missing something does character creation between origin and hero not actually line up right?

Origin gives 5 extra skill dots and an extra attribute dot as a part of finishing touches, but hero doesn't.

The weird thing about this new system is that doing damage is actually a stunt. Using that power would replace doing damage allowing you to shoot someone with a bullet that doesn't harm them, but kicks them out of reality for a turn.

I think you actually deal damage and knock them out of reality, since it gives you Enhancement 1 to spend on the stunts. Since you need at least one success above their defense already, you can spend that success on Inflict Damage, and then your free success to use Glimpse the Other Side

From how it is worded, all Flatlander stunts seem to take all successes to use.

>but only at the cost of taking the damage of your own attack.
Only if you spend successes on the stunt that does damage.

Just as a way to bump the thread, I've come up with an idea for a Hero character, and I'm going to try and make him either before I call it a night, or tomorrow morning:

Basically Sammo Hung as a Scion of Guan Yu. A Martial Arts Film/Theatre Director. Just like, a hair off from his father in so many ways, a Leader, Sage, and Creator.

I'm thinking taking the Constellation Relic and the Stars Purview, so he can use it to dip into Artistry for Muse's Kiss. Maybe do Passion, Prosperity, and Epic Stamina as other purviews, and have his Knacks be like, Immortal Mastermind and Master of the World, where he basically directs his team with fight choreography and "plot twists" in combat. Maybe have some like, supernatural stuntmen for Followers.

No, you are treating the Greeks as a amorphous blob that sprung fully formed from history as if they were Athena.

Socrates was forced to drink poison because he didn't agree to Athens funeral rites, people that went against the gods weren't considered good people.

Even in myth, Agamenon is given a free pass from kinslaying because the gods demanded it. His wife and eventually his son weren't that fortunate.

Like half the myths of Zeus involved him passing judgment on someone. Don't be so disingenuous as to tell me he was just an executioner and not a moral authority.

That is one of the major reasons I disagree with the interpretation of Zeus the books make. Being in judgment of others is his second most prevalent role other than fucking all the things.

Where the fuck is the Judge calling? And the obvious Order purview?

Nah, those things are too wholesome for the king of the gods.

Hell, apparently this is supposed to represent Jupiter too. And Jupiter was all about Judgements and the Order of the State.

>You're treating the Greeks as an Amorphous blob that sprung fully formed from history as if they were Athena.

To an extent that's necessary, as to get into the heterodoxy of Greek religion is to get into some complicated shit. Like, DID Athena spring fully formed from her father's head? Or was she a child raised with Triton? Who's Hephaestus's wife? Is it Aphrodite. Aglaea or Cabeiro?

And are you sure we want to discuss Zeus's rulings? Because that's what they are, rulings. Zeus makes decrees, not judgments. He decides what he thinks is right, and fuck you, those are the rules now. Zeus never deliberates, or weighs the evidence. The closest he comes to actually acting as a decent judge is when, in the Iliad, he consults a set of scales for who deserves to get their ass kicked in the next fight.

Despite this disagreement, I will agree with you that Zeus should definitely have Order as a purview. He may not be morally perfect, but he is still the author of the laws, and the enforcing principle of order.

I don't disagree with that point. I'm just arguing that saying Zeus was considered a perfectly cool dude is a gross misunderstanding of his role. He was King of the Gods, and therefore could not be challenged or questioned without grave risk, but he was also a fucking cunt.

The guy ATE his first wife, who was also his cousin, committing something grossly akin to kin-slaying and cannibalism, both acts that were repugnant to the Greeks, which we know because dozens of other people got terrible punishments for them. Does Zeus? Nope. No one brings it up ever again, until his devoured pregnant wife's baby pops out of his skull.

I'm not saying Zeus doesn't deserve Order. Or even Judge. I'm just saying that Zeus being the "Great Judge" didn't also mean he wasn't considered something of a prick. In the same way that Solomon the Great being considered insanely wise doesn't endorse polygamy to Christians.

I've been rebuilding a lot of my old characters under the assumption that my old ST will run under the 1e setting, but with new rules. There are some concepts that mechanically weren't so great back then that work a lot better now. If, however, he tries to run in 2e setting, I think I'll pass and run my own instead.
That sounds like a fun character
Also... I was reading through the rulebook, and realized that a Monster-Girl-Harem-Anime Protagonist is a completely viable character option.

Having the harem be followers/guides or the other PCs? It was possible in 1e, but not much mechanical enforcement.

Either having each harem monster girl be her own follower/creature, OR making a single "harem" follower with the "group" tag, and then make guides for the individual girls.

The main point is that it's mechanically viable now, rather than just fluff viable. Having your primary combat "weapon" be a follower/follower-group, and then using the Lover's Oath knack to keep them from dying in combat, is actually quite a legitimate build now.

>Creature

Wait, isn't Grant Morrison one of those comic authors who *says* that superheroes and happy endings are for kids only?

No, actually, in-fact a lot of his work has been an exercise in trying to explain the cosmic truth that nth dimensional aliens told him while he was on drugs climbing some monastery steps, that no matter how dark and fucked up things get, the universe itself has a happy ending when accounting for time when viewed from the nth dimensional perspective......
....
....
....Basically think Slaughterhouse-Five, but more Scottish Punk Rock....
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He's actually spoken/written a few times about how he regrets how the darker imagery in his comics have been mistaken for nihilism and lead to the dumbing down of adult comics.

>Who's Hephaestus's wife? Is it Aphrodite. Aglaea or Cabeiro?
Who's to say that he can't have gotten himself a harem after he got fed up with Aphrodite's bullshit?