Ancient Good Awakens

>The Ancient Good wants to mind-control everyone into becoming good people
Go away YHWH

>plunge everyone into individually-sealed dream worlds
Go away Isamu.

>or sacrifice the world in other to save multitudes of other worlds
Go away Lucifer.

>Well there goes my first suggestion.
Honestly, it was more of a "can I escape this" then a "don't suggest this", user. Sorry.

>Either that or the ancient good sacrificed himself to act as a vessel for (insert evil shit here) and is currently posessed by it.
That was my first thought, an Ancient Good paladin of Good that willingly took upon himself the Ancient Evil armour of Evil, and sealed himself away.
Now something awakens him, and he's constantly fighting the armour, it being parasitic but attempts to seduce him, tricking him into thinking it's symbiotic.

>Isamu
Literally who?

He is the ancient god of Flumphs, a race long-lost to the ravages of time, known for its goodness and purity. The current world was once theirs, but as long as the current races live in it, the Flumphs cannot be restored, for the atmosphere is currently poisonous to them. The ancient god seeks to scour the world of all its inhabitants, restore the atmosphere to its original level, and resurrect a group of Flumphs that sealed itself into stasis in a vault deep under the ground.

Bonus point: The currently-alive races are REALLY at fault, since their forefathers were aliens to this world, who came there with the aim to conquer it and make it a colony.

megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Reason#Musubi

He was sealed with an ancient, infinite murder orgy that just ran out, so the party needs to either seal him in a murder orgy or kill him before he turns the entire world into a murder orgy..

>Lucifer

Sargeras, surely?

He wants to go back to sleep but the world won't let him.

Never played WoW, but Shin Megami Tensei 3's Lucifer basically comes close to what he said.

user said Ancient Good, not ancient evil ya melon

Rogue Good deity breaks himself free of the cosmic prison-cum-paradise of the Gods, righteousness burning in his heart as he seeks to scourge the mortal planes of evil. The other gods, however, don't directly interfere in mortal affairs because they realize to do so would fuck shit up. Reality tries to make sense of a personification of "Good" having manifested within its realm to disastrous results. Laypersons find their moral codes shifting, revolving along an axes around the deity's own. Radicalization is the new norm and a middleground ceases to exist. The forgotten folk who dwell in the deep are rudely awakened by the deity's burning incandescence, and take action upon the world of mortals. Good and evil is taken to the extremes, shades of grey are quick to take sides lest they be swallowed up by the light or dark. Mortal men are emboldened now that a true god has descended unto the earth, and quickly take actions against one another. Some find vindication and believe themselves in the right, others lash out as even the afterlife seems to be against them. Total chaos. The god himself might be a force of nature, a giant effigy of righteous flame and justice manifest, but the repurcussions of him simply being in the mortal realm are far greater.

Maybe he was supposed to bring about some great disaster, but was delayed. Sort of like the Ten Plagues of Egypt. Now he's awakened, he's going to carry out his mission, because he's 100% faithful to the will of the Gods.

The party, of course, has to stop him from basically committing 9/11. An interesting twist would be that God *still* wants him to complete his mission, because - as it turns out - the current civilization is just as corrupt as the original one he was sent to inflict the disaster upon.

This leads to a unique twist on the clash between Good and Good, where one guy is arguing from compassion ("I can't let you kill all those people") and the other from law ("It's God's will, and I am his faithful hand.")

If I kill everyone then I will be the only villain,
If I die then there will be no more evil in this world
I will kill everything and then die and thus evil will be forever gone

Something like Ozyamandias from Watchmen. Utilitarian to the extreme to save the world even if it leads to mass murder

And in the end, they don't remember who is good and who is evil?

That's not 'good' in the slightest.

That's just evil tho. Good means dying for your beliefs if you have to.

sometimes human progress get so far along that we loose sight of the foundations, and what makes this structure strong.

perhaps the "ancient good" has awoken because we have lost sight of the basic fundamentals of what is good, and now we spend most of our days cherry picking, and trying to find black and white in a grey area.

or perhaps the "ancient good" was merely a messenger. and he has awoken to find that the people have taken his message and used it to enslave/exploit humanity.

Like blackberries overtaking a yard. Maybe this Ancient good is too unrestained. Causing a shift in balance.
or maybe going along with the whole balance aspect.
Maybe the Ancient Good awakens and notices that balance must be restored, that there needs to be a black mark for the good to fight/train, and become more resilient.

Or maybe the whole outdated morals thing is really whats at heart.
Maybe a new epoch is on the horizon, And like Alister Crowley said that job of the new religion is to demonize and consume the old religions.
Maybe this ancient good is playing its part.

What happens when an Ancient Neutral awakens tho?

>I'm completely stumped. All I can think of is it being an ancient robot that was set to "Deus Vult", and it never got out.
>Or, it's an ancient hero that awakens to and perceives the world has not just changed, but is filled with degeneracy and evil, and wants to reset it to a clean slate.
>He awakens to take out the trash. The trash is elves.
So just have them help the party along their main objective?

>Good means dying for your beliefs if you have to.
So where did Oz have to choose between surviving and making his plans work again? Because I have a distinct memory of him both surviving and getting his way.

Boring answer: He doesn't care and goes back to sleep.

In-depth answer: He forces himself upon the world as a warden, making sure that neither good nor evil can get an upper hand.
Republic of Evil declares war upon Empire of Good? Republic of Evil gets their armies decimated.
Revolution in the Good Czardom? He makes sure the Evil Kingdom has one as well.

>Ancient god awakens
>"Ancient" is being generous, this is a deity primordial. A relic from the age of Eden
>Incomprehensible, not due to sheer inhumanity. You are simply too small, too little to understand
>God causes reality to bubble and distend. It hearkens from a time before the meat of reality had grown Hard and inflexible
>Slay it, contain it- deal with it before we are erased without it's knowing

>god
>Godly

Not Ancient Gods, Ancient Goods.

If you kill innocents in order to enact your plan, you're no longer good. You got to follow idealism to the end, even if it leads to a loss - once you consider pragmatism, you are neutral at best or most likely evil.

>Man vs Man
The Paladin has been summoned to kill a witch. Not just any witch though. This one made a deal with you to get the macguffin/ save the ally/ empower the player. Note you need to protect her from the Paladin.
>Man vs Society
The world is corrupt, and the gifs have decided to reset the world. They send their most faithful servant to start the process, either directly or indirectly. This is your world. Defend it. Prove to him it's worth defending.
>Man vs. Nature
The paladin is of a druidic nature, and sees the rapid growth of society as a blight. His aim is not to destroy everything, just give favor back to nature.
>Man vs Self
The paladin failed to accomplish something in his past. He wants to fix his mistake. Doing so requires destroying a macguffin you need, but he cannot rest until it's destroyed, as it's the focus of his guilt.

Nah Ancient Neutral is just your normal Elemental Lord incursion. Magman the Magma Lord woke up and decided that there aren't enough volcanoes in the world. He isn't doing it to kill squishies but if they don't get out of the way, they gonna get crisped.

Not him but it's a Greater Good argument. Ozy made it himself.

Well, being as one of my previous characters WAS "an ancient good awakens" I can suggest that perhaps this ancient good decides to right some wrong that occurred in ages past, but this wrong was the imprisonment/banishment of a certain race to a hellscape and now that they've been stewing in there for millenia, unable to die nor reproduce, they're all quite insane. Now he's trying to manage them and prevent tragedy but from the outside perspective it looks like he's just summoned a massive army of monstrous lunatics.

I fucking knew the gifs were up to no good.

No such thing, he's just evil. Once you value yourself over others and decide that you can end their lives for some nebulous goal, even if it's not directly profitable to yourself, you cease to be good.

Greater Good is the worst kind of evil.

There are a few concepts that you can take from media that apply to an ancient good being overtly "good"

Example:
In the film Zatoichi Challenged, the main protag Ichi, a blind samurai, is constantly antagonized by an opposing samurai cop that takes orders from up the chain, his extreme conviction gives him the flaw of being blinded by justice.

I find this to be a neat parallel to work into an antagonist which thinks himself as "good". Possibly play upon parallels that go further than good vs evil.

Another concept is a King Arthur type of ordeal,
where his perspective is shared not by just himself but multiple other characters that follow in his path. you could have multiple antagonists to the protag or player party this way.
Where as in King Arthur's concept of "good" could be directed by the common folk and him being the so called vehicle for their ideas.
>>Sure i'm king but i'm literally just doing what everybody wants so it can't be evil right.

These ideas could be things like warring with other nations etc, while not straight up "evil" could lend in sense some way to explore the conflicting ideas of the protag vs the antag that is good.

Another idea is that the Ancient Good finally kills Ancient Evil after a bijillion years and people think they are free to live without fear, but really the Ancient Good is too over protective and goes full nazi police on the people and the protag. This Ancient Good's trait was not seen by the good folk because he was constantly fighting the Big Bad. Player party has to kill him for the sake of peoples freedom.

Elaborate on some ideas OP, theirs a lot of neat concepts that at first don't seem like something that would turn an Ancient Good to be seen as "evil" by opposing parties.

It's all in the perspective.

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If salvation for the multitudes means the sacrifice of the few, then it can easily be considered good especially if the alternative is maintaining the status quo where suffering and degradation continues for everybody
It can even be seen as a noble burden and sacrifice on the part of Ozy
Point is, you don't actually get to define good and evil, it's all about perspective, motivations and goals

Yeah, let's kill the race that is constantly fighting against evil as well. Good job, /v/.

Elves can't kill other elves fast enough and killing them all off once and for all solves the problem

That's a different question. The statement in regards to Oz was
Good means dying for your beliefs if you have to.
which seems rather arse-backwards here since Oz never choose survival over achieving his ideals, to the contrary even, he risked his life by opposing Dr Manhattan.

Lawful Good(order is important) would be easier as law and good can be in conflict that will push into conflict with PCs where good due to interpretation can be discussable.

For example ancient hero honor and oath bound to protect long lost civilization failed to contain ancient evil that destroyed it.
After waking up he finds a way to "atone" for his failure and retroactively save his people. Problem is that it may wipe out present civilization due to timeline change.But as his duty is to his people, he will be willing to take a risk, or hero does not know of the risks or is unwilling to acknowledge said risk. Truly believing that time change ritual would not be dangerous for present world.

It is a question what would happen to all good people if samurai Jack managed to go back and win against Aku, if time is a line and not a tree then their very existence would be deleted.

>Or, it's an ancient hero that awakens to and perceives the world has not just changed, but is filled with degeneracy and evil, and wants to reset it to a clean slate.
Doesn't this idea of yours break your first stipulation?
> Outside of having "outdated morals, ethics and standards"

His plan is to hit reset button on all life so new good can bloom, better than ever?

This is an idiotic question.
Evil can fight evil because evil is intrinsecally egoist and self-centered
Good can never fight good because good is all about helping others and righting wrongs.

If you go with "hurr kill everything because need to reset reality" it's not good, it's evil

Good and Evil (note the capital letter) are both incompatible with mortals unless they're dead and their souls purified/corrupted by these primeval forces.

A good person has a lot more in common with an evil person than a Good outsider.

>implying different people's good can't be mutually exclusive

He is an entity of a greater good beyond the needs of humanity. Turns out your planet is the Egg of Morthark'ptrachtka the Obliterate of Reality, and to save the universe he must destroy this planet. He'd tell you to get out of the way, but he doesn't even recognize you as living creatures and he doesn't speak your language anyway.

>Good can never fight good because good is all about helping others and righting wrongs.
That strikes me as kind of idealistic.

Because if the Ancient Good has woken up, then so has the Ancient Evil. The two are drawn to each other, and should they meet, their mutual annhilation would destroy the world.The players are in the group sent to stop the Ancient Good, while another group go to stop the Ancient Evil - you cannot destory one without the other, so both must be destroyed, simultaneously

>implying good isn't absolute
Good is idealistic. You can't fight for good without being idealistic. if you fight for your subjective good you are not fighting for true good, you are at most neutral and biased towards your own side

That's because it is. Good is idealism, evil is pragmatism.

>getting rid of an ant farm is evil

Have you ever thought that your shitt edgy memes got trite and boring?

The ancient good's lover has been taken hostage by some dark lord and will stop at nothing to get her back.
The good aligned party are working with an alliance of decent realms who are have a peace treaty with the dark lords own realm after a devastating war they just barely managed to survive and if it started again right now they would probably lose.
The dark lord sees the ancient good as a member of this alliance and would start up the war again and party needs to stop him from doing his one man war in order to continue their own shadow war against the dark lord.

It is as most neutral but it certainly isn't good

Maybe he was awakened by some kind of evil prayer arranged by a cult that fools the god into thinking actions like wiping out all life in the countryside is protecting his followers or something.

Since when are good people forbidden from doing neutral things, especially in pursuit of good goals?

Sounds like you've got it. Just generally too fervent in their beliefs so that it makes them dangerous.
Like the Nazis hearts were in the right place, sometimes their methods were just too far.

Could have been awakened by a prayer by someone calling upon an ancient deity of justice looking to bring vengeance on some person(s) who did something to them but the god misinterpreted it or took it as a reason to commit genocide.

>”Why am I doing this? Why, I am saving your world, my son.”
>”For millenia I have slept my Dreaming-Death, viewing your world with joy and resplendence.”
>”But lately I have wept. Your world is rotting, my son, so I must awaken”
>“I will make them see. I will make all see. When they see, they too shall weep and be consumed in the Cleansing Fire and be made pure again”
>”This I do for you, my child”

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I am a pathetic phone poster. Please, absolve me of my sins.

Your player cheated death. This goes against the natural order. All creatures that cheat death must be put back down. It is the only right thing to do. The ancient good has awoken to do just that. Prove him wrong.

Ancient Good was a hero of times long past who fought off the great evil of his time. In his fight with the ancient evil when he struck the killing blow he was cursed to unending life and a hex was put upon him where he leaks a miasma that twists and corrupts man and nature around him. The great hero attempted to take his own life but could not as he could only be killed by another in combat due to the curse so he hid in the deepest reach of the world to save others from his curse. In our time the miasma has spread and created a race of evil orc like beings that have run wild and there are stories of a dark lord creating more, the people of course not knowing of the tragic great hero. The great hero is afraid to leave his cave lest he corrupt more of the world so he has been leaving clues anyway he can in an attempt to have people find him and kill him.

Not "outdated", but "unsatisfiable" morals, ethics, and standards.
Anyone who isn't a pious ascetic who has given away all worldly possessions to those in need and embraced universal voluntary communism is getting THE AXE.

A legendary hero finds that he will die in the greatest battle his world would ever see. The final confrontation between good and evil. He spends every single spare moment preparing for this battle. When it comes, he mows down the enemy army, each swing of his blade felling dozens of the dark lord's soldiers. However, the prophecy had been written by the god of deceit, posing as the goddess of fate. The dark lord seals the legendary hero and buries him under his castle, to be imprisoned there forever.
However, the dark lord's "eternal empire" quickly finds itself assailed by all sides by his former minion's, who didn't want to spend the rest of eternity being tortured by him and only joined in out of desperation, because after all, they were the bad guys in the prophecy. They eventually form a rather lawful-good society.
Hundreds of years go by and the dark lord's castle is now falling apart. His madness and eventual fall are barely remembered, with him being rememberd only for giving the "evil" races a chance to live free in the surface as equals. The seals holding the hero have long fallen into disrepair and eventually break under the pressure of containign him.
The legendary hero awakens and finds out that the war had been lost and that now the dark lord of yore is remembered as a hero. (Just like we did with Leonidas, Napoleon, Genghis Khan, etc etc), while he had been painted as a cowardly traitor. Enraged by this and by his people's destruction, he doesn't really notice that his "enemies" have long abandoned evil and are every bit as good as he is.

>The party tells him the truth before they fight
>He looks at the party, clearly conflicted
>lowers his weapon
>announces he understands and agrees with the party
>raises his weapon again
>"I was chosen by the gods to die in the final battle"
>"They never said which one. Or which side I'd be on..."
>"Come, heroes. Prove me your world is worth saving!"

>Good is idealism, evil is pragmatism.
Nonsense. Good-Evil And Idealism-Pragmatism are orthogonal.

Good isn't absolute. What is good for a faction/group/race may not be 'good' for everyone else.
Obviously, there are things that are 'good' for everyone, and things that are 'evil' from every point of view, but there are also many subjective arguments.
Put it this way; imagine that there is a apple tree near two houses in a desert. Now, it's the only source of food in the whole existance, and if the two householders will split the apple, they will both starve and painfully die. What's the absolutely good thing to do? Split it so they both die? No, it's obviously to give it to one of the two. Which is obviously 'evil' from the excluded party point of view.

Just make them more or less extreme than your party.

If your party is okay with killing bandits, then this Ancient Good doesn't kill and thinks your party is too extreme and dangerous, or it doesn't kill even when killing is the more logical option. On the flipside, maybe it's okay with killing bandits as well, but takes it too far. It punishes their families as well.

So long as it doesn't share the exact same values as your party, there can be conflict.

If your party has a wide range of alignments that covers every variation, then this ancient good could have a goal that runs counter to them. It could be trying to revive someone that the party would rather not see revived, or kill someone, or unseal something that's thought of to be bad, or seal something that's thought of to be good, or bring about a utopia that the party thinks is a dystopia, or start a war with hell, or start a war with heaven because heaven's corrupt or to get heaven to be proactive against hell. Or your party is hired to evict a group of squaters, or defend them from being evicted. Blah blah blah.

You get the gist. So long as the Ancient Good and your party disagrees on SOMETHING, there can be conflict.

Oz wasn't good, he was just edgy. He was simply edgy before edgy became super tired and cliche. So fans think he's cool and justify his dumb plan as being intentionally dumb because it's a deconstruction.

I read Watchmen in my 20s, after my edgy period, and it was a really great comic. Super ugly as hell, and the pirates were horrible, but once you got pass that, it was a really good comic. But it doesn't hold up and Ozzy, far from being a brilliant character, is just an edgy chuuni if you read it after your own chuuni phase.

>Good is not subjective
>Morality is set on stone

The Ancient Good is an all encompassing, all consuming good. It does not take into consideration morality, ideals, personal standards, any human complications, it works as a singular good that will burn the world in purity and swallow everyone in pure, blinding light.

That sounds "Good" only in the sense that it is opposed to "Evil".

It's good in that it will route out all choice towards evil.

The party really is the evil that he was meant to take out and they just don't notice it.

You just discovered why being good sucks.

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The Ancient Good is much more eldritch in nature, a primal good, so to speak, and thus has a perception of good that is old and freaky to modern types, and acts in a way that doesn't even seem good. Such as trying to absorb all rational thinking life into itself, after all, if all things that can make choice are absorbed into it's being, then only good can exist. Destroy evil by destroying decisions.

Ye olde times were a little....different.
Back in his day either you were good, which was good you got all the benefits he provided if you were, or you were bad, which was bad and he wanted your ass on a pike.
Anyway, nowadays we understand moderation is a thing and it's not half bad but Mr. AG isn't really big on the concept and he's not liking what he's seen so far so now he has it out for anybody who has ever at any point in their life done anything that wasn't pure and utter good.
Took one but didn't leave two at a gas station? Didn't wash your hands for over 30 seconds? Ever have a temper tantrum as a child? Ever think something mean about someone? Ever sit in the left lane when you weren't using it to pass? Etc.
Yeah, he wants your ass, and literally everybody elses, specifically on a pike.
Now it's time for all 9 squares of the alignment across the globe to team up unlikely buddy cop style to take down the Big Nice Good Guy. Buckle up, it's gonna get weird.
COMING SEP. 2018

He was an Ancient Good by the standards of his time, but not so much my whatever modern standard your game uses. Or perhaps is bound to a particular tribe or people that is now no longer important.
Ex. King Arthur returns from the grave, sees that his original people are now coal miners in Wales, kills all the English, and plans to rebuild the UK as a 9th Century monarchy with a capitol in Wesex. No parliament, no Norman-blooded aristocracy, no women in positions of power, Just Him and His Round Table Lads and maybe Merlin.

Lawful Good: Wants security for all, but is ready to diminish freedom radically.

Chaotic Good: Wants freedom for all, but is ready to diminish security radically.

Generic Good: The general consensus about how magic/the world works says that certain things would produce a bad outcome. However, the Ancient Good has a different opinion, based on knowledge that the society of the PCs couldn't possibly have gotten hold of. Neither position can be proven, and ultimately it's a matter of belief.
Extreme meta: Whoever believes in their position more is the one who is correct. If the Ancient Good doubts, it is incorrect. If the PCs doubt, they are wrong in whatever point of view they decide upon.

Okay first of all fuck you and second of all why do you faggots always hate elves so much? i’m on this board constantly and all I ever see is ‘knife ears’ this and ‘treefucker’ that elves have never done anything wrong like goblins or undead or whatever. Did you actually read Tolkien or are you just fuckig stupid? Even in LOTR the elves were superior to men (us) but the point was that they were better than everyone so they actually do have some reason to be a little bit smug you shithead memeposter

Does it not also say that Men are the favorite of Illuvatar? That the elves will one day envy the dead,who can leave the bounds of Arda to go whence they know not?
Hate not the elf for what he does, for his works are beautiful and full of all the majesty of the living world. Instead, pity the elf, and remind the haughty amongst them of their place, for even the humblest child of Man shall one day be free, and that all things of the World must fade.

>Ancient good has different, more strict values.
>People support him, partly.
>Ancient Good values vs Good vs Evil vs Neutralfags.
But since you didn't allow that
>Ancient Good Awakens
>Greater Good
Or
>He's serving a God which has recently been shown to be a great deceiver and got BTFO. He didn't know this back then and refuses to acknowledge it now, seeking to restore his God.

The world as a whole is in fact 'evil' at the present time. The ancient good awakens and decides to clean up. The party, composed entirely of evil PCs, acts to oppose it just because they want to defend their evil way of life.

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Then you get the Sleeping Nameless Giant from the Narnia books.

Who wakes up when his name is called.

t.dwarf

Be damned to you, sirrah. “Good and evil have not changed from elder days” is the heart of fantasy. I direct the audience’s attention to the LotR quote that was deliberately left -out- of the movies, as spoken by Aragorn:

>”Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men”

Is and has always been, since at least Hammurabi.

ancient good, not ancient evil you fucking orc

Go full Old Testament. The Ancient Good has awoken to rid the world of evil. Problem: from his highly virtuous perspective 99.9% of mortals are vile and depraved. He is therefore on a deep facto quest to destroy the world.

Never played Shin Megami Tensei, eh?

Ever read the Old Testament? You know, the one with the Flood?

Whats this? You're growing as a species? Progressing, evolving, growing? Can't have that around here.

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I'm tired and should be in bed so I'm not going to read the thread to check if anyone has said this but here it is:
1st Age Solar

>Humanity is good (chosen)
>Everything that threatens humanity is evil
>Everything threatens humanity
>Thus, the good act is to devour everything and become infinitely strong to wipe out all enemies, utterly
Getter Emperor, the ultimate good for humanity

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