Guy can't form a cohesive sentence and fails to even string two words together

You don't ask str players to be powerlifters, do you?

>wants to be the party's muscle
>can't lift even a 100 pound diddlylift
why?

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Because some games like to make faces mandatory.

Dont have a guy who can haggle/barter with every shopkeeper and inn owner? Here is 1/20th the price of the treasure you brought in and your stay costs 3 times as much. Also, all normal folk you meet hate you because you didnt spend points in social interaction skills or attributes.

Sounds legit, maybe one wants to get more experience at something they're not great at.

Why is it acceptable to simply roll a STR check to lift a heavy object while a social CHA roll demands an entire explanation on how you persuade a NPC?

Because it's intuitively obvious how the character lifts something heavy. Trying to persuade someone to do something often requires at the very least an approach and a line of reasoning or something as to the basis of said persuasion.

It's more akin to asking why isn't it acceptable to simply roll agaist a "fight" stat to see if you beat the monster or not. Which in about 99% of RPGs, you don't get to do that either.

probably because you can boil down almost all npc interaction to 'roll persuasion to get them to do something' that means unless the players do a lot of roleplay amongst themselves (which in my experience varies from a lot to just speaking oc) then you are basically doing no rp in an rpg. it also takes a lot of challenge out of encounters, and produces deadlocks, you either persuade people or not, there is no back and forth which can result in unexpected outcomes. you only get that if players roleplay.

I always demand a vector.
>I roll diplomacy
is invalid
>I flatter his strength
>I appeal to his greed
>I mention my connections
is valid

This is to supply material to work of for the reaction.

You're roleplaying, not rollplaying. You describe how you lift a rock or kill a dragon with your sword. The party's face isn't required to be great at combat, but he sure as hell is required to roleplay party's face.

>Because it's intuitively obvious how the character lifts something heavy.
>don't describe form properly, because you don't know shit
>snap back city

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I'm pretty sure everybody can diddly 100 pounds

....right?

So if someone is bad at medicine and he wants to play a healer, is it a power fantasy? How about being poor at survival and wanting to be a ranger, skilled outdoorsman for the party? Tank taking hits as the frontline and CC'ing enemies?

Unfortunately, all three also mean that you just roll "healing" or "survival" or damage dice...

You make no sense.

>He wants to play a strong character
>Can't even bench 2 plate
>He wants to play a acrobatic character
>Is fat irl
>He wants to play a mage
>Can't even do the most basic of spells irl

>provide detailed logical explanation for how you wish to persuade npc
>roll a 24 persuasion check
>DM still refuses to let you persuade npc

That's because the brainlet wants to feel smart, and the smart guy doesn't generally give a shit and wants to play their damn game of pretend.
t.A smart guy

>religious dude plays atheist
>Atheists play paladins and clerics
That was a weird session 1

Except the point is that social interactions aren't supposed to be about rolling. Similarly an irl 6 int player can't pull off a 20 int tactician as they can't actually come up with good tactics

>guy can't cast spells
>wants to play a mage
Why?

Someone who wants to be good at healing, survival and protection aren’t power fantasies, they’re guardian fantasies. It’s a different and arguably more acceptable fantasy.

>guy
>wants to play a girl
Why?

Because "I want to be the little girl", but I'm not delusional enough to think going trans is a viable life option.

It's a fantasy game and I'm living in a glass closet. No one I've played with has ever had an issues with it, seeing as how I'm self aware enough to keep any overtly over the top sexual stuff and magical realm bullshit out of it. Make actual fleshed out characters that just happen to be female rather than wish fulfillment fetish bait, and all that. I'm just dude that makes a lot of female PCs, and it's pretty much left at that.

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>I'm pretty sure everybody can put together at least two words

>....right?

As an atheist, the conceptbof a paladin is pretty cool because you're disconnected from the idealogy, so it's fun without any bias. Unless you're the fedora tipping fag kind of atheist who hates his parents, I giess.

I never understood this idea of assigning people to jobs like 'the face', 'the healer', the damage dealer'. Why not just create a party with fun characters with personalities that doesn't have to fall into some sort of specific role and do what you can with what you get?

That's just bad GMing. Why turn your game into a haggling simulator? Unless you're negotiating a price on something or someone important to the narrative, it's a waste of time nobody enjoys.

Because in a lot of systems, especially crunch heavy systems, you only have a limited amount of competence to spread around multiple different activities you want to be good at. If you want to actually be good at diplomacy, or healing, or doing damage, you have to mechanically build a character to do that, which often means deciding beforehand who is playing what.

But it's not really fulfilling any fantasy. Your unability to be the party face unless you rely on fucking "roll persuasion" should be a painful reminder constantly killing your power boner, unless you're retarded.

So rules are now bad gming. Guess all those complaints about dnd are just gms being shit.

Rules are just a suggestion hth
The only thing that makes 3.5-PF-5e remotely playable is DM's fudging with the horrible mechanics and tailoring encounters to the party's strengths and weaknesses to some extent.

Being smart isn't neither hard nor easy, it just is. In fact, 98% of the time you aren't smart, it just happens that everybody else is a bit slower to notice stuff, remember stuff or find a solution.

The other 2% is made of those occasions you manage to amaze yourself (which are sweeter than cheesecake) and those ocassions that you try to convince a group led by a charismatic idiot (which are sour as licking dumpster limes)

>You describe how you lift a rock
>description implies using back instead of legs
>no form for carrying it
>hand occupied by sword
"I know you rolled 24 on your strength, but you broke your back anyway cause you did it like a retard"

>kill a dragon with your sword
>just overhead hacking at its scales and screaming
>completely ignoring vital areas
>standing in place like a rock-em-sock-em robot
>no rhythm or dynamic, just swinging like a runescape character
"Sorry, you might have rolled high and had hit points remaining, but that would never work in a real fight. The dragon kills and eats you anyway"

Maybe they want a challenge, or to improve their speaking skills in a safe environment.

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The problem isn't actually the CHA roll.

It's the fact that the idiot face won't even know what to ask for, so they'll waste their time literally drooling on their dice.

>Tries to lift a rock
>Narrates it as trying to lift with his tongue instead of his arms
>Fails
"Yeah, 24 strength won't help you."

>kill a dragon with your sword
>stands out of reach
>doesn't use abilities
>holds his sword the wrong way round
"Yeah, roll all you like that's going to suck."

>has never played dogs in the vineyard
This is how pnp RPGs used to work. Adding shit like miniatures have just turned DnD into a skirmish wargame with periods of narration in between combats.

>guy wants to roll a Will save against despair
>is IRL convinced of the insignificance of human existence

Use Charisma instead of Wisdom, you just lie to yourself.

>Fag wants to play a Wizard
>Can't even summon hellfire from his palms
Could you even imagine? The audacity!

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>This is how pnp RPGs used to work.
>adding miniatures has turned D&D into a budget wargame
Learn your history.

>self-professed brainlet only ever plays brainlets
sometimes i wish he'd actually play a character with literally any intelligence though, because while it was funny the first couple times, his solutions always being 'smash it' is tired as fuck by now and he's starting to get into murderhobo tendencies.

I mean, can he at least summon heckfire? I'd be okay with that. The groans of the darned are a lot less disruptive than the wails of the damned anyway.

If the only player who can solve the puzzle rolled a barbarian, then once it has been properly explained OOC it can just be fudged that IC it was solved by the dumbshit wizard.

this but unironically

>want to play
>can't speak proper english
>sound like a fucking illegal immigrant at best
>can't even bring myself to try because it would be embarrassing and unfun for everyone

why did i born in a third word shithole
please end my suffering

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Just play a barbarian, you'll be roleplaying really well.

how do i even roleplay if i cant describe shit and have trouble forming complex sentences?

M-ME SMASH?

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Exactly. Or just play a foreigner who hasn't quite grasped the language yet and talk like Heavy.

>types well enough to fool a native speaker
>understands the rulebook
You can do it, foreigner-san!

Play a text game Paco, you'll probably type better than 50% of Roll20

If you write on similar level to an english speaker (most suck) and can read well enough to go through the rulebook, you shouldn't have any massive issues unless the other players are assholes. I'm from a multicultural society and english isn't my first language and you can get pretty far if you stop thinking that people are judging you for your foreignness.

What is your primary language if you don't mind sharing?

Nothing about the game is supposed to be about rolling you Nut.
You are supposed to play a Role, it's called Roleplaying. If you Face has a mad stutter but fun playing faces let him. The dice are there to create tension and uncertainty, not to carry the game by themselves, go play monopoly if you want that.

And i your face tries to make awkward sexual advances to NPCs or similar and it leaves your immersion in shambles, talk with him about that like the grown adult you pretend to be.

Unless you're doing some kind of organized play shit, "rules" for stuff like shop prices and haggling are pretty much suggestions for the GM. If rules trump fun, especially for something as subjective and setting-dependent as haggling with shopkeepers, you have a shit GM.

The vast majority of people aren't doctors, woodsmen or MMA fighters, but that doesn't affect your ability to function in society. A lack of social skills is very noticable on the other hand, and can make you feel inadequate. That's why

If you treat the price listed in Player's Handbook as something only relevant to character creation based on the arcane wealth system D&D uses, you save yourself a great headache.

Unless you're playing a very non-standard setting, there isn't going to be a supermarket of swords and glaives, all with the same standard prices. If you want something that's not handmade repurposed garbage, you either become a great blacksmith and make it yourself through a lot of trials and tribulations, get it from some keep's armory, or contract a great weaponsmith who will charge you far more than 100 gold. Just make a quest out of it.

"You want me, the Great Ozeius, blessed by the very gods, to make you a great sword? First you must prove yourself."

charisma isn't an end-all to convincing someone of something. he can probably argue a half-assed sentiment, roll good, and then the DM would be like "huh, that worked. the guy shrugs and agrees, saying you make a fair point."

>he can make a half-assed argument, the GM decides he doesn't care one way or the other, and says it works to shut him up
FTFY

>Your inability to be the fighter unless you rely on fucking "roll attack" should be a painful reminder constantly killing your power boner, unless you're retarded.

FTFY

...Maybe he wants to practice his speaking skills?

Please play in my party

I would love the hell out of this. my barbarian still tries to acts smart yet fails, just like in real life. If you're gonna be a stupid character please just stick to being stupid

>self-professed brainlet
I can only assume you're exhausting to be around.

>guy wants to be a wizard
>cant even cast the most basic cantrip in real life

This.

Guy just wants to feel socially competent for once OP, the whole point of the game is fantasy and escapism. Sit down with him and talk about it beforehand and work something out if it's that much of an issue for you.

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It's fine if he's at least trying. Hopefully he doesn't ALWAYS want to play the face.

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>Guy can't even conjure a bolt of lightning
>Wants to play a wizard

user, that's not a fair comparison and you know it. If I were playing an outdoor survivalist, it wouldn't be feasible for me to go out and catch a fish whenever I rolled for it. It wouldn't be possible for me to actually stitch up anyone's wounds if I made a heal check, and diagnosing a fantastical illness would be near impossible even if I had a medical degree. But in a medium of little more than paper and imagination, anyone at the table can talk. Talking is in fact the only skill that can feasibly be directly translated from the game to the real world, at least without turning the whole thing into a larp.

It's not unfair to expect the person who is taking on the mantle of talking the most to actually be skilled at talking. Part of the goal of tabletop games is to have fun, and if someone bad at talking is making the game unfun by slowing it down as they try and stumble through talking to a questgiver, as a GM I'd probably have to encourage them to pick something else.

And honestly, when was the last time someone legitimately horrible at talking played a charismatic character? In my experience the people who want to play one like the authority it gives them in the party, or the edge it gives them outside of combat by wooing NPCs to help them. It's not as if it's always been their dream to be suave and I'd be crushing that to refuse them.

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I've actually had fun playing religious characters despite being pretty strongly atheistic. Might be because I used to be religious and have a decent understanding of the mindset, though.

Except it's easier to make the fantasy real because there's no sperg fighting badly in front of you. But in the face case there is a dude showing his bad social skills, since social skills are requiered to play RPGs (while physical skills aren't).

This is why you don't (shouldn't) pretend to be a strong fighter in LARPs if you're a hungry skeketon irl.

Most people I know find people that understand the language but have trouble articulating it charming more than anything. Given how well you can type and form sentences when you aren't speaking, it's a given that you have a good grasp of the language. A lot of the dislike from immigrants in any part of the world would extend from the type of immigrants that absolutely refuse to learn the language. As long as you try your best and ask for patience I sincerely doubt that anybody would actually mind that you have trouble speaking.

Just go back to your shithole and improve it. This includes creating a Veeky Forums community if there isn't one.

>there's no sperg fighting badly in front of you
There's a mini standing stock fucking still every round and a sperg saying "I do an overhead swing and say aaaaa!" while waving his empty hands and never mentioning stance or technique

Dumb guy here, i love wizards but i realized that playing a sorcerer with only the shittiest spell choices was the thing for me. I get to talk shit and take CHA rolls, and i'm forced to use impractical spells in creative ways.

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>So if someone is bad at medicine and he wants to play a healer, is it a power fantasy?
Yes.
>How about being poor at survival and wanting to be a ranger, skilled outdoorsman for the party?
Yes.
>Tank taking hits as the frontline and CC'ing enemies?
Yes.
Congratulations, you don't understand what a power fantasy is.

Whole group is, actually. Rear-line support duty isn't what you'd call a particularly engaging job, so us Powerlifter operators got together to form a roleplaying group. Imperium sanctioned games, of course, we can't be truckin' with systems that have magic in them, they might be endorsements of sorcery.

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>PBJ on the outside of the bread

This rustles me more than it should. It's like they've inverted the very concept of "sandwich" and twisted it subtly into something unwholesome and wrong. Like an uncanny valley of foodstuff which bends the unprepared mind to fit its own odd contours.

Some of my PCs are just girls. When I roll them, I think of what I want, and then sometimes I think "this one is a girl". I like having to think about what they would do and the dynamic they could have. I don't like it when people try and get sexual with my character though, so I avoid it.

>Guy cannot open the gates of K'rach
>wants to play a wizard

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It's a great way to fuck with kids, i love that picture so much i did it IRL a few times. Tastes even better with horrified stares.

Have him be a face apprentice to another PC. The wannabe face can work on how to roleplaying a face, while the GM can work on how to rollplay a face.

>Roleplayers playing roles
WHOA DUDE HOW WEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIIRD!

user, you would be a fucking perfect barbarian.

>There are people in this very thread defending charisma rolls and persuasion checks as actual role-playing
>And they are using the fallacy of "but you aren't a fighter IRL" to defend that shit

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The roll is to see if the character fucks it up or not, the DM can set whatever DC he wants. If you didn't convince the DM that his NPC would believe it, your character will have to do better.

I've seen grown men unable to diddly 95

2 plates for one or reps?

All you people arguing over shitty reasons and other interpretations when had it right pretty early in the thread.

I do the same. I don't need you to give me a speech of what you say to the guy, but what's the basis of what you're trying to say or do? What's the angle you're trying to work? If you explain that to me in a basic way, I can determine how he might react.

If you appeal to a king's pride it will have better chances of achieving something than if you threaten him in his own throne room full of his own guardsmen, you feel me? That's as detailed as you really need to get.

It's the difference between saying "I roll to hurt the dragon," and "I roll to attack the dragon with the weapon in my hand," or "I roll to attack the dragon with this spell I have." They all do the same, but the latter two give me things for the dragon to react to.

This is pretty much the best compromise.
We're not here to LARP, and while it's preferable for you to make a big speech it shouldn't be 100% required.

How can this be fixed?
Lowerin* or raising the difficulty of the roll depending on how the speech is done?
You want to ask about the stores security, dc roll is 10
>hi I’m looking to start a protection racket, could you tell me about your security system?
Difficulty is now 8
>hey, what’s the deal with this security system?
Difficulty is still 10
>H-hey, ummm. Blank stare as entire table looks at them for a few minutes, security syestem?
Dc is now 15 and the assistant has run to get help

let him play, after 10-20 social encounters he will build up communication skills that will help him IRL as well