/CofD/ & /wodg/ World of Darkness & Chronicles of Darkness General

Not the you you're replying to, but is are you talking CofD or WoD?

user was talking about CofD, but Mage has the same problem in CofD and WoD.

COFD.

Since he said 'new', I'm assuming that's what he meant.

Damn.

I mean, I was part of a small Chronicle for WoD Mage. It was fun, but wow was it...heady during character creation.

In WoD it's worse, aggravated by M20 written by goatfucking paedophiliac schizophrenic Brucatto.
Avoid M20. All other editions of Mage are more or less fine.

Mage isn't meant to be simple. If you want simple, play Vampire, Werewolf or MET for either.

M20 is not nearly as bad and hated as Veeky Forums Magefags like to pretend with their incessant screeching, just take a look on OPP's forum; also 70% of stuff there is a reprint from Revised

Look at all this bait.

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>70% of stuff there is a reprint from Revised
Precisely! And the rest are smug rants about assorted nonsense and his sick fantasies. He hadn't even bothered to include a proper system, but felt necessary to lecture you on why pizza is bad and his special brand of Indian diarrhoea is good.

This.

Most Hunter takes on existing splats are pretty cool.

that's beautiful

I like to emphasize in WTF the choice of prey through tribe, territory, the nature of packs, and the pack totem and possible pack spirits, rather than the ICE element; I feel that's more lively. YMMV

>unironically recommending cofd

>first time GMing
>friends want to play Mage

I feel like I'm constantly on the edge of ruination. Is this what being a real mage is like? Flirting with the abyss, knowing that one wrong move will get your soul eaten?

Who are the best Thaumaturges and why are they the Sadhus?

>mfw a practioner of Thaumaturgical Sadhana in the Dark Ages can start with the Path that lets them reincarnate as anything & they also can have Loom of Vishnu at chargen, which is basically budget Chimerstry 9/10

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Run a game with Sorcerers/Witches instead depding on if you play WoD or CofD. Much better games.

See even Werewolf was a bit too...idk, out there for me at the time, but that was 10+ years ago. I couldn't understand the Umbra.

As for Mage, what about it is an absolute headache? Besides being kind of heady

If I were to run a game at the fall of the Byzantine empire, sans Constantinople by night, what should I read?

>As for Mage, what about it is an absolute headache?

It will take a gorillion years to get enough spheres to do the simple thing you wanted to do, but on the road there there will be 101 story busting things you learn to do instead.

See I didn't feel that way when I played it, but it was also a short Chronicle.

Like...normal dude, just has some magic. Use magic in a subtle way to help out.

I suppose I am interested in the experiences of others with Ascension, especially you dudes who have had a tough go of it, just incase I run a game myself: various things to look out for and the like.

I've played about 5-6 years worth of Ascension mostly with two very long running characters. Never felt like a "normal dude with magic," felt like I was trapped in a schizophrenia simulator. In owod I prefer things like demons and vampires to scratch the magic itch because they feel more relateable and human.

It was only a decade and a half later that I learned about Phil Brucatto and that his view on real life is in nearly every way the same as Mage the Ascension.

Imagine being someone who finds out something scientific or historical that disproves one of his ideas. A normal person says "Huh, that's interesting." A mage realizes that outer space being a vacuum, and that is a PERSONAL SLIGHT from people who want to erase dreams. Discovery and exploration itself, is a form of violence and oppression, and space exploration is a weapon that destroys the cosmic spirit, turning beautiful, verdant planets into lifeless rocks. Imagine knowing the Flat Earthers were objectively correct, except that the Illuminati used sorcery to prove them wrong. Imagine that meth is only bad because evil sorcerers put a hex on it. Imagine that warning labels on cigarettes are what cause cancer.

There is nothing not screamingly insane about Mage.

>It was only a decade and a half later that I learned about Phil Brucatto and that his view on real life is in nearly every way the same as Mage the Ascension.

So him suffering from schizophrenia isn't hyperbole at all?

No headache. Just slightly complicated and very much open to interpretation.
He's enjoying it, more like.

No, "the everything is magic" shit is 100% what Phil Brucatto says IRL, that Trump is a dark sorcerer and that EVERYONE is doing magic

Ah ok, so Mage takes Subjective Reality very seriously. I seem to recall that it was something like "If enough people believe it, it is true". Am i remembering it right?

Yes, this extends to history too, for example. Dinosaur bones are in fact a trick.

This. WoD Sorcerers are (subjectively) better than WoD Mages.

That is nothing. God is a trick. Real, honest to God almighty God is real because enough superstitious wizards believed in him.

Dinosaurs kinda existed, though. Even had a precursor civilisation.

The approach to magic is what makes Ascension superior to Awakening.
There is literally no bettter concept for varied magic than paradigms.
The collective unconsciousness of humanity enforces the consensus, basically the paradigm of technocracy.
They don't believe that you can create fireballs by saying latin phrases while doing some gestures which. So it's not possible unless you're an awakened mage who's paradigm says it's possible. And even then you get paradoxed if sleepers see you or you're too vulgar
But the Avatars are just shard of God, checkmate ectasy cultist

God is almost certainly one of the few objectively true elements of owod, the avatar shards, etcetera.

I remember now.

A ton of my friends are jonesing for me to run VtM for them though I currently prefer VtR in its current form due to being not metaplot, Kindred,being slightly more squishy and there being no explanation as to the origin of Kindred. I've tried to convince them to go with VtR, but they've played Bloodlines and now have that boner for it. Ugh.

Anyway, I am remembering a ton of the lore and how thing went down.

CONSENSUS REALITY
Thank you, those are the words I was looking for

consensual reality.
Consensus is the currently active one, basical science and reason

>Avatars are just shard of God
According to those crazy cultists that still believe in him.
That's the beauty of it. Almighty God is absolutely real, You-Lose Caine is real, millennia of vampiric history are real because some daft desert-squatting mages hopped up on hashish believed in an old fart in the sky.

God Celestine is not the True God

>but they've played Bloodlines and now have that boner for it. Ugh.
The greatest fixer for the oWoD.
>A ton of my friends are jonesing for me to run VtM for them though I currently prefer VtR in its current form due to being not metaplot
Why would you need or even want to touch the metaplot of VtM for any campaign you run?
Unless you have a specific one in mind that you want to run.
And if I remember correctly Camarilla party line is that neither Caine nor the Antediluvians exist.

Yep.

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Bitter Crusade is about the Fourth Crusade.

>Why would you need or even want to touch the metaplot of VtM for any campaign you run?

I wouldn't

>And if I remember correctly Camarilla party line is that neither Caine nor the Antediluvians exist.

I suppose this is why I prefer VtR. I dislike the concept of a Global Conspiracy of Vampires with ungodly amounts money and power controlling tons of stuff, to say nothing of there being yet another faction which is a bit more lax on concealing themselves and actively is looking to wreck the former. No matter what, the PCs are little blips.

(also, since generation objectively exists, it makes it all the more difficult to deny Caine and the Antediluvians, which makes the party line seem less...well, believable. I don't know if this was ever addressed in canon)

When brought down to a city-wide scale, where Prince is the highest rank, PCs actions feel as if they mean something.

Anyway, I don't mean to kindasorta editionfag. Sorry.

Currently I am trying to remember how many Kindred a 30million pop city can support. is it 1 kindred for every 100,000 mortals? Ish?

>is it 1 kindred for every 100,000 mortals? Ish?
I wouldn't think too hard about it.
With that scale for example Dublin would only have 5-6 vampires.
So the prince a sheriff and the coterie

Wow, didn't know Dublin was so small >.>

That´s the numbers they give somewhere yeah, but obviously they had a city like New York on mind then.

Adding to this, most Russian regional centers would have like 3-5 vampires total. And considering how drastically centralized Russia is, I don't imagine vampires would want to stay in their regional dumps and not go to Moscow/St.Petersburg where all the nigh life happens.

Yes, according to corebook official enforced limit is "one vampire for every 100,000 mortals", but anarchs and shovelheads often go over it in their attempts to topple Camarilla.

Russia's Little Granny's turf, though.

Back in Land of Nod the law was that there couldn't be more than a vampire for every 3 mortals

I know my own city could, with those numbers, could only hold like 4

So a city of 6 million, around 30ish kindred? Sound ok? Not too ridic?

Yeah but even for the entirety of New York you'd only have around 85 vampires.
And being a group of 3 or 4 neonates would already be a big change in population.
If you use that rule it would result in enough vampires to run a campaign but it's nowhere enough for the vampire society described in the books to function.
With such a small population there's no reason for Primogen or Harpies

New York having 85 vampires and only 8 mages lul, nice populations

Yes. You can double, triple or even increase that tenfold for anarchic, important and contested cities.

The ratio is for kindred to human population total. Bigger cities would naturally hold hundreds of vamps, while countryside would often have nobody but occasional Gangrel and, in Eastern Europe, mouldy old Tzimisce.

In Boston Unveiled (which is a pretty bad book on its own) there are around 70 mages in Boston, including scelesti/banishers/apostates and not including the PCs. It should LOGICALLY have even more vampires. Take this with a grain of salt though, Mage writers weren't that competent in the first place, and that book was written with freelance help.

Correction, around 70 mages that were described in the book, have names, stats etc. There could be more, there could be sleepwalkers, proximi etc.

Understanding the Cammy mentality is easier if we assume they mean that antes don't STILL exist, and even back when they did, they'd just be normal vampires.

They know fully well generation is counting back to -something- otherwise they couldn't possibly give it near universal esteem.

Jew York would have a ton of Syndicate and NWO, though.

>So the prince a sheriff and the coterie

I prefer the prince, his mom (who is also his sire and who still has a mortal job and they still live in the same house) and the coterie.

I was thinking ah...

Toronto.

Yes but it's relative to the human population of the city atleast the one I remember.
Which is stupid compared to what you wrote

Somewhere down Belostok this might as well be true.

Depends on who's in charge. Paranoid elder price would have no more than thirty unaligned vamps in his city. Liberal ancilla'd permit an eighty. Anarchs would have hundreds of thinblood caitiff crawling all over it.

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yeah they enforce 1/100.000
But they measure against the city population not total population

They try and fail to be precise. That is the prime reason Camarilla lost a lot of clay to Sabbat lately.

At a glance, are there any books out there similar to urban legends? I need some stuff to throw at mortals.

This guy gets it, Purified are the real niggas of the nwod

>purified
>barely any powers except the power to be left alone and almost impossible to kill or use powers in his house or car

Not bad, all things considered.

I did a homebrew that decoupled them inherently from the Shadow and they were comfy as fuck

That looks stupidly broken, is there any ritual more broken than this one?

Ask Tremerefag when he wakes up and starts assblasting hermetics.

Not any more broken than any other retard wanking RAW

How powerful is Unmaking really? Is it ever actually brought up in your games?

Its powerful and flavorful, so long as insta death unmaking is mostly a forces/life/death(ok, making) thing and not a "uhhh I creatively use fate mastery to unmake your fate you're dead XDDD" type thing that every arcanum gets.

Im pretty sure Caine could beat the Unnamed

But isn't this power in question different though? Its RAI purpose is quite literally setting whatever rules to a pocket of altered reality; it even italicizes the *anything*

What the fuck is your problem

Which one? The Baali or the Nephandus?

Sure

One time he fought anything he got ganked by an old cunt. Caine is a wuss.

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Of course Tremere fag is going to shit up another thread.

It's been creatively used for plot purposes.

powerful enough to kill caine lul

Shh, he isn't there yet. Don't summon him.

He's already in here.

This. Our cabal is actually investigating a case of Time unmaking right now. At least we believe it's that. GM is that you?

He's like Voldermort, mentioning his name draws his attention

He's always here in our hearts.

Probably, those poor, poor sunglasses

Stahp.

I kind of feel bad for Tremerefag, desu. His obsession gives me the impression that he *might* have a mild autism out in the real world. I don't think I've ever seen someone rage so hard over Mages before.

Caine's got the You Lose power printed in his sheet, according to the Apocalypse ToJ book he's also a full third of the Wyrm, sorry.

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