Veeky Forums Australia: Straya Day is coming

>Real Estate
Banks are granting new loans to investors by allowing them to use "unrealised capital gains" on their existing properties as a deposit. So a 24yr old train driver earning 55k a year can be leveraged into the millions to buy investment properties.
That's like the equivalent of margin trading on over 20x leverage, but for the fucking property market. You know what happens when a trade that heavily leveraged goes backwards? Yeah, that's the Australian housing market.

House loans using UNREALISED capital gains as deposits. Let that sink in.

It's treated as an asset like commodity and subject to CGT. I think the ATO only cares about the trade from fiat to crypto back to fiat. Don't think they give a shit about the trades in between.

Unless it's your only source of income, then it gets messy.

if you withdraw your initial investment thats just a wash right, no need to report anything

My thoughts are that they will not have the resources to audit crypto records for a few more years.

They will make examples out of tax evaders and claim they can track your cryptos, but they know it is a losing battle so as long as you report your cash out gains with supporting evidence they will be happy to take it.

can you explain this a little more to a sub 80 iq brainlet? so, my parents who bought a house at 200k, and its now 'worth'(unrealised) 500k, can use that 300k difference as a deposit? is that it?

how long has this been going on?

i read some random article awhile ago that said CTG doesnt apply to real estate anymore in 2018 to combat housing shortage. is that true?

No, you're selling an asset. You report what you sold.
You buy 1 BTC for $1000 and it increases $2000. You then decide to cash out your initial investment of $1000, you have to sell 0.5BTC. That 0.5BTC cost $500 so you made $500 profit by selling it for $1000. you're paying CGT on that $500 profit

You're not withdrawing cash. You're selling an asset of the equivalent amount of your initial investment.There's still 0.5btc there waiting to be sold.

You use it as collateral for a loan

Buy some POWR before western power partener with them. Heard this from a guy who works there

...

this has been going on for ages. Australian laws are tailored to benefit investors.

You can hedge your new unrealised gain to loan another 200-250k ( loan amount should always be equal or lower than the equity/cash that you currently have.

Yeah, I intend on visit Trump Tower and staying at his hotel near Central Park

Sadly we fucking have to, not having the gov fuck my ass. Make a trust and use it to lower tax going forward

It's been going on since Alan Greenspan say "unlock your equity". Don't listen to that dumbass user, he just added in the "unrealised capital gains".

But as dumb as he is, real estate prices are astronomically high right now so I wouldn't buy beyond your means.

Look at Perth. I knew nurses who were leveraged up to their eyeballs, fucking 4-5 houses. If LVR drops the banks are going to liquidate.

anyone else autistic about city skylines? this is the first time I've seen downtown Sydney. It looks comfy. What's that visible street on the right side called?

You're alright, Australia.

>put off buying Auscann at 70c
>the next day it's $1
>then $1.25
>then $1.70

Fuck. Major dip soon pls.

CGT has never applied to your principal place of residence (prove you live there for 1+ year). I highly doubt they removed CGT from investment properties. They may have lowered the rate to only apply to 50% of the gains regardless of how long you've held it for. That sounds more likely.

No, it's worse than that. Much much worse.
Say your parents by an investment property for $200k. Now they want to buy another one, but they have no money for a deposit and the first house is still only worth $200k.

No problem! Say the banks. We THINK your current investment property MIGHT be worth $250k next year. So we'll let you use the POSSIBLE $50k in equity as a deposit for another loan. Because house prices only ever go up right?

Now do that again and again and again for each investor.

>paying tax
>ever
No thanks, I'm not supporting abos and bogans to drink VB and smoke durries.

How the fark am I gon get me smokes?

int student here. anybody ever did a 3+ month cherry picking contract?

No asshole, they've cranked it up another notch and you missed the key points.

Yes you have always been able to borrow money against the EXISTING equity in your home. Now you can borrow against the POSSIBLE future equity it might maybe have if house prices go up at the median rate in the future.

You have to be able to discern between:
1) Equity that exists as a result of house prices at todays rate
1) Equity that may exists IF prices continue to rise

IF

Just use living room of satoshi to pay bills and bank the cash you would otherwise use. Purchases using crypto are tax free

It's back breaking hard work, but cool for short term I guess.

It's Elizabeth St and the park is Hyde Park

Elizabeth St

Can I pay for my crypto purchases with crypto?

Fuck me, you are saying they are writing loans based on future projections? When the fuck did this happen?

If:

A) your loan is equal to or lower than the amount of cash you're putting in (equity equals to loan amount)
B) your property grows at an average of 7% per year
C) your rental income is at an average of 4% per year

then:

1) your rental income should be able to cover for your loan interest and STILL generate some cash.
2) you can choose to hedge your unrealised gain as collateral and loan more money for lifestyle expenses or future investments
3) even if you choose to hedge and loan more money, your total equity /unrealised gains will still grow faster than the loan interest, lowering your Loan to Value Ratio (but if course, for this all to work condition A B and C has to be met or it all tumbles down)

You will find a hard time finding a cherry in our sheilas achmed.

holy shit this is literally another 2008

Exactly. If house prices start to fall, all those "future capital gains" evaporate and those investors get the equivalent of margin call. But for wider Australian property market. That's why the housing bubble has yet to pop. Never under estimate how greedy, short-sighted and stupid the banks are. This is like the hail mary of Australian banks to keep the house market propped up in Sydney, Melb and Brisbane

How long? Don't know. I only found out about it in the last few months or so.

legally yes
if you cashed into crypto anonymously / via cash then they will not
this is wrong

Living in SA
Any way other than crypto for a poorfag to make money?

I guess, but unless you were buying crypto with fiat, you're using crypto to buy (trade) crypto anyways. If only they had some sort of website that you could "exchange" various cryptos for another crypto they are "paired" with.

Unless you were talking about cryptomaniac purchases, then aslong as you can buy a corpse using Bpay then yes.

Can you point me to these products? My brother is buying another place and I was wondering how the hell can he get a loan this early.

i asked around some backpackers and they said it depends on the plant and farm owner (you have to bend over all day for eggplants and potatoes). Need to make money to put into crypto

>this is wrong
Come on dickhead, citation required. Show me where the Australian tax Office explicitly states every crypto trade is a taxable event.

What will cause the prices to start falling? Less influx of chinese investors/students?

Specifically what I meant is if I buy crypto with credit card on coinbase then use Living Room of Satoshi to pay the credit card bill

FUCK SYDNEY, FUCK QUEENSLAND BUNCH OF FAGGOTS WITH YOUR SHIT FAGGOT FOOTY. AFL IS WHERE IT'S AT!

hahahahahahaahha

>based on future projections?
Jesus fuck, we're fucked. Actually, not really, have a lot of money saved up, and a lot from Crypto, going to buy the housing market dip.

15. The disposal of bitcoin to a third party gives rise to CGT event A1 under subsection 104-10(1). A taxpayer will make a capital gain from CGT event A1 if the capital proceeds from the disposal of the bitcoin are more than the bitcoin's cost base. The capital proceeds from the disposal of the bitcoin are, in accordance with subsection 116-20(1), the money or the market value of any other property received (or entitled to be received) by the taxpayer in respect of the disposal. The money paid or the market value of any other property the taxpayer gave in respect of acquiring the bitcoin will be included in the cost base of the bitcoin in accordance with subsection 110-25(2).

lol

If you're smart you've already pulled all your money out of anything Aussie related. My super, for example, is 100% overseas shares/financial products and it has done very well compared to my mates who left theirs with the default allocation.

The ASX has basically trended sideways for a decade and companies would rather shit out dividends than reinvest in the economy/expand. The taxation laws just add fuel to this.

With the mining industry no longer building infrastructure, the whole economy pivots on this retarded real estate bubble and all the ticket clipping (accountants, RE agents, property guru's, the media, ect) that goes along with it. This is why the government, even when facing cataclysmic polling, STILL will not reduce immigration. It keeps a floor under housing/rents.

If you want to make money off Australia, then with a well timed short on the big four banks you could make a killing. But for long term investing? Avoid Australia.

>ps buy funfair

I don't know I don't have time to look up loans right now so I still don't believe this 100%.

Note: This happens alot in the commercial space, but I am talking property developers etc. Not for your average blokes residential investment properties.

However, even in the commercial space the collateral still exists and usually not leveraged as high.

You can pay credit cards with lros. I dont think that's taxable, but don't quote me on that

People unable to service their existing mortgages start to sell due to stagnant wages (already happening), loss of work (happening) and general economic downturn.

Perth is about to experience it's 3rd consecutive year of decreasing house prices for the first time ever. Only time in WA recorded history have house prices fallen 2 years in a row was the 87 recession. This year could be the first time ever WA sees house prices fall 3 years in a row unless something drastic turns the market around.

But I highly doubt it. Our market is in trouble. We have a huge influx of workers coming back from Wheatstone and Barrow Island and Onslo construction slowing up. They're coming back to a market that doesn't have jobs for them and are loaded with debt they can't service.

>tfw government super and get 15.5%

we also have the chinks bailing out which was always going to happen, and rate hikes ahead

>My super, for example, is 100% overseas shares/financial products

how do you do this? i thought you were not allowed

not only that, chinese money are coming in like insane. 60% of new melbourne building are not only financed by chinese but will also be bought by chinese (foreigners cant buy property not off the plan, so newer buildings are always filled with more chinks). Student housing is everywhere. i saw a chinese shop once in chinatown that sells business (supermarkets, showrooms, new, petrol stations, construction projects) RETAIL, like its fucking chump change to them

Note that doesn't specify crypto, it refers to "property" and I believe its referring to buying other goods with Crypto. Gold, silver, white goods, land, car etc.

I want a root off a hotty for Australia day

how fucked are we if the entire economy depends on mining and property? Something doesnt add up has it always been like this?

You've made a powerful enemy today, sign.

We used to have manufacturing. Not in my life time though. Agriculture and water might be the next boom

How would a Canadian do in australia culture wise? Thinking about moving somewhere refreshing but not too different

is this a good thing or a bad thing?Wouldnt australian economy tank right after the mining boom if there hadn't been any overseas investments?

like tone loc?

You don't pay CGT on assets under $10,000 as far as I know...?

where do you buy crypto in aus? Dont want to go to the fucking newsagency to get crypto.
"sir can i pay 500 dollars in cash for crypto"

its economically good yet socially bad. try coming to melbourne cbd and you'll see what i mean

coinbase $300 a week or bitcoinmarket or localbitcoins

It depends on your superannuate, but you are able to specify where your super is invested.

You can't invest directly unless you have a self managed super fund but you need 200k to open one of them IIRC.

Probably not too gr8 desu m8

No, it hasn't always been like this. Like everything there used to be a lot of local manufacturing. Australian buying Australian cars built by Australians with Australian materials.

Long story short. Resource boom, everyone got greedy, parabolic growth will be met with an equally drastic correction. No different from crypto or any other market. The only difference is it will dragged out over a decade, not 2 weeks

Dude if the chinks weren't in the CBD the CBD would be like all olther CBDs in in Australia after 5pm.

ANd the chinks you see in the CBD are mainly because of RMIT.

bought into eth via fiat deposit to Ind Res
marked the tx as long term investment on quickbooks
will only ever use IR again to cash out eth
will declare capital gains
sleep well at night anons

Coinjar is better. They just added support for ETH, LTC and XRP as well

its nice how cool its been on the east coast these past week

i fucked a girl from nz once,we got along. I think you are just saying that

That's defined at the start of the doc

Ruling

1. Yes. Bitcoin is a 'CGT asset' for the purposes of subsection 108-5(1) of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 (ITAA 1997).[1]

12. In weighing all these factors it is considered that Bitcoin holding rights amount to property within the meaning of paragraph 108-5(1)(a). As such, a person holding a bitcoin is considered to hold a 'CGT asset' for the purposes of that provision.

And although it says Bitcoin it is also explicitly stated that this applies to all crypto

yes same is happening with brisbane and tasmania. I think the future australia wont be white dominated much longer. It's essentially merging with china now

I live in that building next to townhall called Lumiere

>actually suggesting Coinbase

God, I fucking hate normies. I can’t even speak to my fellow Australians about crypto because they’re all normies.

Coinbase has 4% fees and a tiny ass buy limit because they’re fucking kikes. All in all a terrible place to buy. I use BTC Markets and then just withdraw to buy alts.

DOTR for ALL BOOMERS WHEN?!?!??!?!?!

Stop fudding the australian lifestyle dumbass. There is no way its won't be a major white population in the next 100 years

what you goys need to be doing is this

You need to keep the following records for bitcoin transactions:

the date of the transactions
the amount in Australian dollars (which can be taken from a reputable online exchange)
what the transaction was for
who the other party was (even if it’s just their bitcoin address).

do this first then work out how you want to handle the situation, speak to an accountant asap if you have big holdings. if you want to evade make sure you know what you doing / have the infrastructure in place to do properly

Tax

Not my favourite topic to discuss with you all by a long shot, but it's something we all have to face head on roll around to 1st of July.

I was lucky enough to be apart of a call the other day with a well experienced accountant whom also trades in the crypto space and has been able to decipher the ATO's regulations as best as possible into the english language.

Let's me start off with telling you the first thing we should have all done before purchasing Bitcoin (Cryptocurrency), which is setting up a 'Company Trust' to pay ourselves through especially if you are a trader and not just an Investor. This has the best angle at reducing the amount of fiat you owe to the ATO.

Define what type of position you have in the space.
- Trader (Should set up Company Trust)
- Investor (Subject to C.G.T - Capital Gains Tax)

You can be both but the best way to know what category you fit into is by wether or not you play in ALT's or just sit long term in Large Market Caps (BTC / ETH / XMR / LTC / etc).

Setting up a company trust maybe expensive in the beginning but it will save you enormous amounts of money in the future when it comes tax time if you have done very well for yourself!

Okay straight into it...

You should be keeping track of every single trade you make, you can do this with good exchange order books and systems like blockfolio to take to your Tax Agent come tax time... The government will penalise you to the fullest if you can not keep records of your trades even if what you are saying is honest and true they will rob you... hey it's tax it's wrong but they hold the guns!

- Do I pay Tax on the Initial Capital?

No... this money would have already been taxed and come from your savings, if earned this year you will pay income/business tax on your capital.

- Do I have to pay TAX if I haven't cashed out into AUD including on-shore exchanges?

Comment was too long, join DigitalCrayons group on FB to see the rest.

>Aus Stocks,
Stocks are for faggots. Crypto is wealth for the people
>Real Estate,
Massive bubble, especially in Sydney. Hope it pops too like Deutsche Bank warned
usatoday.com/story/money/2017/12/08/bitcoin-crash-among-2018-worries-financial-markets-deutsche-bank-warns/934364001/
>Business
By Business do you mean the chinks buying everything valuable?
Or all the jobs and industry going overseas?
>Crypto in Aus
Im sure the faggot government is against it. Fuck those US Jew lackies. we dont need them. they cant stop us.

if this continues will we get fucked in the long term?

>doesn't read market premiums

>You should be keeping track of every single trade you make, you can do this with good exchange order books and systems like blockfolio to take to your Tax Agent come tax time... The government will penalise you to the fullest if you can not keep records of your trades even if what you are saying is honest and true they will rob you... hey it's tax it's wrong but they hold the guns!

this.

>worrying about CGT
>thinking you can cash out

what faggot would be dumb enough to declear that? at the very least wash it through monero before cashing out, then no trace of prior transactions ;)

what the fuck are you sure user? any sources

its game over when this bubble pops

Also
>all the absolute cuckolds ITT talking about paying tax
Yeah, go ahead. Hopefully a gang of Africans stabs you to death for being such faggots.

>I knew nurses
you filthy degenerate

>asshole
get out of here mutt

That's literally 10s of 1000s of trades. I have 500 pages of trades on Polo alone, 100s of trades per page.
Can i get away with just BTC bought, BTC sold? If that's how I enter and exit the market?

Change the date dawg