Can the adults here have an honest conversation about taxes? What the hell are we gonna do?

dude it's not that hard...

>import taxes into bitcoin.tax
>pick your tax bracket
>pay what you owe

anyone saying crypto is too hard to keep track of hasn't even tried or doesn't want to pay taxes

You americucks are fucked. You probably forgot to cash out on Dec 31 didn't you? Now you owe taxes on whatever your portfolio was worth at the end of 2017 even though your portfolio crashed in 2018. You probably can't even pay your taxes owed if you cash out in full now, can you?

>The rules aren't clear enough and there are WAY too many loopholes and inconsistencies that tax fags try to translate to crypto that make absokutely no sense
There's actually zero ambiguity. To the IRS it's an asset, it is not a currency.
The only legitimate complaint is the paperwork, but that's not really unique to crypto.

I assume you're trolling, but what's funny is that this is actually how it works in netherland.

Cry a bit, then file my taxes, then cry a lot more.

nope this user speaks the truth. capital losses max out at 3000 per year so it's possible that people can end up owing more than they can afford

I'm not trolling. This is how it works in burgerland too. The americucks get cucked again. Bankruptcy or jail, choose one.

>Not just having your investment professional send a summary sheet to your tax professional
Don't tell me you're so poor you have to do this shit yourself.

Complain more and welcome to my world. All my life I feel like I'm the fucking work horse that is dragged down by fucking poors living of my taxes. That's what tax is all about: the super rich keeping the poors happy by bleeding the middle class out via taxes. Taxes are the sux. And I'm new to crypto and didn't even make a dime but I'm not new owning a million (euro in that case).

>doesn't know what etherscan is.

>doesn't know that exchanges have trade history.

>playing dumb to avoid taxes

Am I the only one who plans on lying about how much my crypto is worth. I will pay some taxes to avoid suspicion but the IRS doesn't have the resources to check what you actually have on an exchange

I'm in a comfy long term hold so in a year's time, maybe more I'll cash out at my convenience and just pay the income tax on it

Its complicated but basically yes, with every trade, it is possible to ascertain a profit or loss, in dollar terms. Not easy, but possible. I am in the same boat, I have missing trades. We'll have to think of something.

I have spoken with an accountant - (((a fucking good one))) if you know what I mean. He says that certain CPA groups are brainstorming on how to handle reporting crypto. Their strategy on best practices is due in the early part of 2018, and ultimately there will be lawsuits that provide the final interpretation of law. He wouldn't even take my case until that industry consensus is complete, the way the wind appears to be blowing, you are going to have to report those crypto-to-crypto trades and pay taxes on profits, which are offset by the losses.

It sucks but that's how it works. Hodl makes sense for this reason: your taxes will go down on crypto you've held for over a year.

Does purchasing gold, silver or copper count as a reinvestment?

Couldn't I just switch to hodling gold?

With the intraday fluctuation, you may be able to get away with using the lowest quoted price of that day. But they may reexamine it with AI later down the road.

We're so fucked.

Actually the exchanges send that info to the IRS without even being asked for it. Remember when you sent them your ID? All your trades are on file with the tax man, my friend. I hope you've enjoyed your time in the land of the free, the rest of the world is laughing at you.

Spain here, it's aight.

You realize gains when you trade for literally ANYTHING.

>hodling gold
Enjoy your nogainz

So say it how it is. Is crypto worth it or not? /nocoiner/ here.

When will you burgers finally learn that the only reason you're even allowed to exist is so you can work all day, every day, with only two weeks vacation (if you're lucky) in order to pad the pockets of the 1% who literally do nothing but bang models and do drugs all day? Your existence is meaningless. Thanks for playing the crypto game though, you made the rest of us quite rich :)

Pay them dude. I’ve been mulling it over but they win. At end of Jan i was at 17k. So i owe about 4K. I just need to find out how to enter this on TurboTax

I would also like to know

Depends if you're american or if you're a citizen of a first world country.

it's kinda fucked how many americans actually don't know this. i wouldn't be surprised if some ppl kill themselves over it

Have you REALLY been trying for six months? Earnestly? No you haven't, you've been trying to think of excuses not to do it for six months. If you've really been trying and you haven't found the tools necessary yet to do it I'm sorry to say you won't be able to accomplish much of anything in life.

I am thinking about going to go to Gibraltar, looks like a good place, it is easy to get a permanent visa and it is a tax heaven with almost no taxes.

The only thing i'll miss as a brazilian will be the 14yo cute traps (yes, it is legal to fuck 14yo here)

They were born slaves and they'll die slaves. It's both funny and sad that they allow themselves to live this way, there are dozens of countries with a higher standard of living and less of an income disparity between the rich and poor where the "american dream" is much more a reality. In America, the American Dream has been dead for decades. Slavery didn't end, it just shifted to the white middle class. Did you burgers really think you could just get rich this easily and cash out?

>fucking mentally ill 14 y.o. boys.
For what reason, faggot?

They're literally slaves, its insane how they even think about paying "taxes" to their slavemasters instead of liberating themselves with crypto. Out of this world really

What if you don't cash out?

This is actually something that makes me walk the line of death

no wonder why brazil is fucking a shithole

Did you trade a fuck of a lot? If you did you might be able to qualify as a day trader. And if so then you don't to deal with the individual trade profits, etc. It's mark to market - essentially what you cash out for. It's what I think I am going to try for. I have over a thousand trades. Regular income rate rather than capital gains, so that part sucks.

marketwatch.com/story/tax-strategies-for-day-traders-2015-02-25

forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/06/07/how-to-become-eligible-for-trader-tax-status-benefits/#31a0fc9d3e35

investopedia.com/articles/trading/09/incorporate-active-trading.asp

thismatter.com/money/tax/securities-trading-business-taxation.htm

>Now you owe taxes on whatever your portfolio was worth at the end of 2017
This is straight up not true.
Now I understand what you're saying though, that people didn't cash out enough to cover capital gains when the portfolio was actually worth something.
Yeah it's kind of fucked, especially because they don't allow you to do wash trades just to realize losses, but when it works in their favor you're out of luck.
It's just something to keep track of when you trade, a 100% gain is only 60%. If you still the remainder invested you're leveraging the IRSs money.

You also owe quarterly taxes since unlike a job nobody is deducting taxes automatically. Do this wrong and you owe interest on the difference.

Cashing out or not doesn't matter and never mattered. It's all about did you realize capital gains in Fair market value measured in dollars. They say that phrase multiple times in the IRS guidance.

Basically if youre from the us a lot of user gonna turn out to be this guy

reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7u7wql/i_just_did_my_taxes_and_it_turns_out_i_lost/

Don't try that in Gib faggot.
They'll castrate you - with a jamon knife if you're lucky.

It was never about the gains.

Guess I'm donating all my shit because MY GOVERNMENT IS FUCKING RETARDED!

FUCK YOUR LAWS!

WE NEEEEEEDDDDD MMOOOORRREEE FUUUCCCKKIINNNGGG LLLLLAAANNDDDDDD TOOOOOOOO COONNNQUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been thinking about this hard. I have all of my taxes ready to go, aside from my trades.

No fucking clue what I'm going to do. To make matters worse, I mined ETH for all of 2017. No clue how I'm going to claim all of that. Forget the trades -- I traded so much throughout all of 2017, I have no fucking idea.

I've considered just claiming the ETH I bought with cash, and leaving the rest to the "idfk" category.

Also this is obviously just me role playing as someone. I don't actually hold any crypto (none of you do either, I imagine).

Any crypto I may have had was likely stolen by malware.

"y-y-y-essih mastah, i been learnin' real good bout these cryptio currentses. I been thinkin' maybe since i been spendin' so long on this you'd maybeh let me keep a nickel or two? OH I'M SORRY MASTAH! NO PLEASE STOP THE BEATIN'! NO PLEASE NOT MAH WIFE, I CAN'T WATCH YOU IMPREGNATE HER AGAIN MASTAH!"

How does it make sense that I'm forced to pay taxes on every single fork of Bitcoin whether I want it or not? Cash, Gold, Diamond, whatever the fuck. I guess I have to pay taxes on anything that hits any exchange ever?

yeah that's the thing. most ppl probably don't set aside their gains for taxes. they just put 100% into the next coin they want

>i wouldn't be surprised if some ppl kill themselves over it

Yeah probably
>be me
>bitcoin.tax import screwed up, says I owe way more than my initial calculations
>getting the money to pay the tax would create a cascading capitals gains tax bill
That was a pretty shitty feeling.

if i wrote a script to generate 10,000 page tax reports from csv files would Veeky Forums be interested in it?

How is what he said not true? You owe taxes on what your cryptfolio was worth at the end of 2017, correct?

Because it takes you to the sexual nirvana.
Because i want to buy a good car and live like a king, as i deserve.
Because this country is ruled by thieves, niggers, commies, leftists and drug dealers.

Yes if you made it open source

>youtube.com/watch?v=X1dP6VV3gpE

Wrong, and you should stop spreading this falsehood because I suspect even more people will end up killing themselves over it. You owe based on what your portfolio was worth at the end of 2017. I sure hope you burgers either cashed out or switched to superior chinese coins that didn't crash in January.

Did you cash out? Then you dont pay.

It's not necessarily the same. It depends on your trades. If you've been trading with your whole stack at the end of the year most of that value will be "realized". But if you've been holding some coins that went up or down in value but didn't trade you might have some unrealized gain or loss.

that's literally the plan, my net worth dipped below 2M so I can just gtfo this year

can you gay marry me? I need another passport

I have over 300 transactions so they want me to pay them money

da fuq

cashed out some at 13.2K, so I'm gucci

trading between coins is "cashing out" according to the IRS

Wrong. In the land of the free you pay on every trade, whether you cashed out or not. Check that portfolio value in December... I sure hope it's higher now for your sake.

I just hodl. Besides how it the IRS going to find every trade

No. If the FMV of the exchange exceeds the cost basis of the coins you owe capital gains. That's basically what the 2014 IRS guidance says over and over.

Dumb shill. Neck yourself.

Could you tell us more about that?

Remember when you signed up for coinbase and they got your ID? Well congrats, you just signed up for Coinbase Concierge, a new platinum service where they'll forward all your funding and trade history straight to the IRS so they don't even need to ask you for it. Fail to report it? Well I sure hope you still have enough in your portfolio to buy a sturdy rope.

chuck it on steemit or something

lel commenting here is hardly worth the captcha effort.
The stupidity in these threads is astounding.

>self identifying to an exchange
>not expecting them to share your info with authorities
kek

do a bikini fundraiser

>youtube.com/watch?v=vKdPffpsPKI

>transfer to new wallet
i donated it to charity.

You have no defensible reason in court why you didn't pay capital gains for your trades where the FMV exceeds cost basis. The 2014 guidance says that's when you owe taxes over and over. It's pretty clear about that. It never once says it's only when you "cash out". The only thing it was ambiguous about is whether you can apply like-kind exchange. That's no longer ambiguous as of 2018. You can't. So when you cash out you're either going to have to commit tax fraud and lie about how you acquired the extra money or if you admit to the trades you will be charged backtaxes, interest, and big penalties. (Because again, you have no defensible excuse)

DISARM YOU WITH A SMILE

WE'RE ALL FUCKED

>he doesn't understand how deductions work

The problem is: WHERE TO GO?
I am not even american and i have the same problem, they want to take almost everything and i have to prove that this money is legal. How can i prove that i bought bitcoin years ago when the exchange (MTGox) dissapeared?

What exactly am I shilling? The only thing I'm "shilling" for is for you americucks to abandon your life of indentured servitude and join us in the civilized world where this isn't an issue. There's a place nearby with taxes on capital gains only, with 50% of those gains being complete tax free. Gambling winnings are completely untaxed there too! Where is this amazing tax utopia, you ask? It's Canada, the country literally teabagging you from above. Countless other countries have even lower tax on crypto gains (some 0%) and enjoy a much higher standard of living too. Don't listen to me though, bow to your masters instead.

What country?

AMERIFAGS I'M ONLY GONNA TELL YOU THIS ONE MORE TIME SO LISTEN THE FUCK UP

WHAT YOU PEOPLE NEED TO DO IS ENROLL IN AN E-RESIDENCY PROGRAM WTIH ONE OF THE EAST-EUROPEAN NATIONS, START A BUSINESS IN THAT COUNTRY AND OPERATE ON THAT BUSINESS BEHALF, SINCE ITS HQ IS IN LITHUANIA FOR EXAMPLE YOU PAY YOUR TAXES TROUGH THAT COMPANY!!!!

NOT THAT HARD JEEZZZZ!

So your taxes go trough Lithuania, not USA. FUCK!!! DO IT !

Thank me later or something.

I don't know where we're going.
But it's going to be great.

>youtube.com/watch?v=OT0yoo9B2Bc

no dumbfuck here has mentioned puerto rico?

I am moving there in the fall to cash out, you just need a property for 6 months and you are TAX FREE .

most of Veeky Forums doesnt know this, doesnt surpise me

Pay them

And yes it works, I know an amerifag that does this!

Pay money for a service? Unheard of.

This brings up an interesting point. Crypto-investment has put a lot of income in the hands of people who have no fucking savvy on what to do about their income. They don't know what they can or cannot deduct, what they do or don't owe, or how to even file in some cases.

This is a pretty big can of worms. I mean let's say you're mining crypto: can you deduct your electric bill?

St. Kitts Nevis has the same, Roger Ver actually does that and he started a company working with the government there so people can pay for it with Bitcoin.

>In b4 "he fell for the puerto rico meme

look up act 20 and act 22 fucktards

Also if you pay your full taxes to the guvment ur literally a fucking cuck and deserve to be sent to the helicopters

Live in Australia. I'm not paying fucking tax on crypto lol

If you're an American citizen the tax man will still cometh. I sure hope you're ready to renounce your citizenship in order to do that, judging by your "6 month" plan it sounds like you think you can just temporarily relocate and avoid taxes that way. Wrong. American citizens who live overseas for DECADES still pay tax to their masters back home. Shame you're not Canadian though, they can legally relocate temporarily like you describe and only pay the taxes in their new country.

wait for the tax collector to violate the NAP, then nuke his ass

I Do over 300 transactions per day.

How fucked am I?

Also no matter how fucked I am it has to be worth it because I’m making like $500+ per day. Alr day made more since getting into crypto this month then I made all of last year construction wage cucking

>be Straya
>only have to pay taxes when you sell

MFW I don't live in the land of freedom so I don't have to worry about this till I cash out.

I asked my accountant about that. It doesn't seem as easy as you say it is. He said he had one client who's house was wiped out by a hurricane in Puerto Rico and now he's just traveling around avoiding setting foot in the US because it would screw up his tax plan. Are you saying he could have just bought the property and came back to the US?

Yeah no worries mate I'll keep towing the line for you fucking grubs, you're not borrowing any of my darts though cunt

It's amazing how little you burgers know about your own tax system. You've been sitting on your fat asses watching football and kardashians so long that you don't even know how your country operates. Pathetic. You all deserve to lose your gains to the tax man. Try again next time burgers, I'm sure there'll be another technological revolution like this in twenty or thirty years that you can ride to the moon. Until then, you're fucked.