Owe more in taxes than my net worth post crash

I want to make millions in crypto and get fucking JUSTed by taxes goddamn...

>payday loan
YES GOY
DO THIS
TAKE OUT A LOAN AT 6,000,000% APR

my gains were really big before the crash, then after a combination of everything being worth less and falling for bull traps all the way down I'm left with significantly less than if I had just held. I'd imagine it'd be the same in norway if you made the same bad decisions as me. Here's to praying to god the market rebounds.

no way my nigga

I learnt my lesson. For some reason this problem didn't occur to me until a few days ago when I bought the premium bitcoin.tax sub and realized I was fucked.

nah dude. Just go down to HR Block and file for a payment setup.. Wait for crypto to go back up and pay it off.

Pretty much this. The tax agencies always talk tough shit but they are legally required to allow you to make staggered arrangements to pay back taxes, and they are limited to like 5%APR as far as interest goes.

tax brainlet here
couldn't you write off your losses or is that not how it works?

no, this literally cant happen in norway. I dont pay taxes until I cash out and have the money in my bank account. so whatever I do on the exchanges never matters, its what I cash out in the end that matters. How can your system not be like this? if you made huge gains on neo and tron, then lost everything because you got hacked, do you still owe taxes? wtf?

When you make a "tax write-off" what you are doing is you are writing off a portion of your income as being untaxable.
so if your marginal tax rate is 30%, and you have a 1000 dollar tax write-off you basically remove 1000 dollars of your income for that year from taxability. So you save 300 dollars on your taxes.

Why are you even reporting it then wtf?

Seriously there is zero moral obligation. NOBODY IS GOING TO PAY TAXES UNTIL THEY CASH OUT.

Paying above 100% of your net worth is absolute bullshit beyond fucking words.

>if you made huge gains on neo and tron, then lost everything because you got hacked, do you still owe taxes? wtf?

yes, I didn't get hacked but this is exactly what happened.

its profit-investment what you get taxed on you literal fucking inbred

If you never realized your gains (e.g. deposited it as fiat into your bank account) you shouldn't owe anyone anything. If anything you should be able to write it off as a loss, shouldn't you?

Wtf, what country? Thats beyond retarded. At what point does the gov decide where to tax? at the highest possible net worth?

>we tax you on all your ups, regardless of the downs

This

Yeap it's a non issue. Lots of people do this all the time. It's not the first time someone lost their investment after the tax year was up and before taxes are due.

taxes are payed for each year separetely in most countries

O HAI MARK

oh okay thank god. I just saw the capital gains numbers then blockfolio and freaked out. Okay that makes me feel better.

The issue is that AFAIK in Canada and the US they decided to consider shitcoins as a taxable good. So people who bought at the moon owe sales tax at that level... but then actually lost money. The tax write-off from the money lost in some of these cases is smaller than the amount of back sales taxes owing.

I think you're wrong about how it works in norway, and if you are correct than Norway is the odd one out, it works like OP says in every other country.

in usa, canada, japan, some other countries, crypto to crypto trade is a taxable event and you have to pay taxes on that even if you didn't cash out yet

More importantly you pay taxes on the valuation at the time of the transaction.

Just take the jail time

You can't take jail in lieu of money for back taxes or civil judgements. Only for like public disorder fines and shit.

that seems odd

If the IRS starts throwing people in jail for not paying above what they earned its going to lead to violence...

doesn't work like that, you still have to pay, you just get jail time as well

Yo white boi! You look like a pussy! what you in here for? I stabbed a mothafucka

I-I didn't pay taxes on my crypto investments...

Yeah it's weird. You can go piss on your mailman and work it off with community service but you better fucking watch where you park your car, because the government is getting it's money one way or another.

Oh my mistake
kek

But like I said earlier. The government talks tough shit when you have back taxes owing, but you are allowed to arrange a payment plan to pay it off without causing "undue strain" on your life. Although they get to decide what is meant by "undue strain". They'll have an escalation time system to receive such inquiries. so if you are polite and don't try to low-ball the shit out of them they'll likely accept the first offer you make. Here in Canada they won't even pursue it to the point of demanding payment arranges until it's been owing for over a year.

in Sweden we have different accounts, investment account: yearly taxed based on your capital
normal account: taxed on the income to the account that year.

>Everyone flipping shit about the IRS thinking they're some sort of Godlike boogyman

As long as you are paying them SOME money they don't care. I owe 10k in taxes and currently I'm paying it down $200 bucks a month with a payment plan.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY EVERYTHING WITH ONE LUMP SUM JUST FILE YOUR TAXES AND PAY THEM BACK A BIT AT A TIME

State taxes are the fucking cunts though I owe them 3k and they wanted it all at once, but the worst they did was sold my debt to a credit collection company. Assholes.

Daily reminder that if they sell it to a private collection agency the 2 year statute of limitations applies. If you can avoid being served for 2 years they can no longer bring it to court.

>but the worst they did was sold my debt to a credit collection company. Assholes.

Those companies will often allow payment plans then too.

In Swedish ISK they take the mean of the end of every quarter

Let me explain this more simply to help you guys understand the importance of why even though crypto taxes FUCKING SUCK it's a very good idea to pay them this time.
If you:
>bought BTC and held under a year
you owe realized gain taxes WHEN YOU CASH OUT. If all you've done is buy BTC directly, you're fine.
>bought BTC (or another crypto) and then TRADED FOR ANY OTHER CRYPTOCURRENCY AT ALL)
the IRS says you did not trade currencies, you bought a new one and sold the last one. This means in the time between you buying btc (for example) and the time of you trading it for an altcoin, there WAS some kind of variation in value of the two currencies. This mean it is impossible essentially for it to be a like-kind (meaning a one:one) exchange - and you owe taxes of probably 15% of that total trade value based on FIFO, realized gain, and also are REQUIRED to post all info you have about that trade - address, amount traded of both currencies to the last decimal, and their equivalent USD amount.
>daytraded altcoins
I hope to god you made good bank. You do not owe just one tax event on your cashout - if you for instance traded 100 times last year, you are required to add up every single transaction and COMBINE them. That could mean over $200,000+ for instance in taxes - meaning even if you lost money, guess who would owe over $2,000 in tax? You.
The reason WHY you want to pay taxes is this:
>you cash out in december with your $2,000,000 in gainz on BTC after trading it for various alts a few times last year
>you begin depositing this money to your bank account
>your bank account just knows what you usually put into your account, and isn't aware of any gifts
>it then automatically says "where did this guy get all this money from?"
>to save its ass, it sees these amounts coming in and sends a silent warning to the IRS to check your shit out and make sure you aren't putting in cocaine money to your bank account.
The IRS then, if it wants to, WILL audit (cont.)

Well that's basically everyone in crypto then. And how many have reported their trades before cashing out? Guarantee you can count them using one hand. You have to keep track of your trades just in case you cash out and then you put the numbers together for them.

(cont.)
your account, freeze itand if needed send an agent directly to your door and ask you directly where the fuck you're getting this money from. At that point, or any point in the future, you better have detailed accounts of all your transactions and a prepared form specifically for crypto outlined in the 2014 IRS guidelines - you cannot claim ignorance on this because it's out there and you should have known.
>but fuck muh government who cares
If the IRS decides you got the money and can't prove it, why should they assume you got it legally? Refusing to file these is already tax evasion
>money laundering if they want to fuck you
So yes, failing to file your crypto taxes regardless of how much you have the gov could get you in prison for a felony. Don't be a fucking idiot. If you decide you want to do this the illegal way, you probably should have bought your btc in cash and done everything with as much opsec as you can, regardless of the fact that crypto transactions are public. Good luck.

How will things be handled when I move entirely out of fiat? I plan to in the next couple years. I might only have a bank account for just in case situations.

But I have no desire to continue using fiat anymore. What then?

>I hope to god you made good bank. You do not owe just one tax event on your cashout - if you for instance traded 100 times last year, you are required to add up every single transaction and COMBINE them. That could mean over $200,000+ for instance in taxes - meaning even if you lost money, guess who would owe over $2,000 in tax? You.

this. Plus the first in first out cost basis fucked me. I'm looking into what the implications for choosing another cost basis method are because FIFO has fucked me hard. Daytrading literally isn't worth it unless you can like double your stack. All those little trades where I made like $50 have fucked me harder than I could have ever imagined.

Why are American tax laws so fucking retarded?

This. Contrary to popular belief the IRS only breaks out the rope and dildos when you try to fuck with them. If you are proactive they are actually really flexible.

do you have an opinion on bitcoin.tax or any other crypto tax programs? For $30 I was really pleasantly surprised with how well it worked. I'm kind of verifying it worked like it was supposed to but so far it looks really good. I'm sure I probably could have done this myself in excel but the price was well worth it.

You don't have to do FIFO
You can do it any way you like as long as ALL your trades are done the same way.
They just wanna be paid and for your math to be correct.

Then your buying power would be limited to the point of a handful of businesses unless crypto gets a ton more recognition. Plus I think you'd still owe taxes in america, avoid trading btc pairs. Dunno about eth/ltc/bnb or other exchange tokens/usdt.

I am using bitcoin.tax
As long as your math is correct, you are fine.
Trust me there are WAY too many people for them to go after that aren't filing anything.
If you do your due diligence you'll be fine.

My thoughts on avoiding the daytrading taxes are to do the following:
1. Convert all holdings into BTC
2. Tumble them
3. sell them for cash
4. claim the cash as capital gains, say you bought a bunch of BTC at $100 and only pay the 15% tax

As long as the exchange doesn't report you to the IRS you will be fine.

are you in US?

Its a tax FUD thread
Dont listen to a single post stated on this thread
They arent here to help you, only scare you with lies

all coordinated
sage

There will be violence at this rate. Calling it.
(Not in any way encouraging it, but I am betting its going to lead to either kid being gunned down or an attack on an office.)

Ps guys, you dont have to do jack shit until someone from the IRS literally comes to your house, in which case you give them a 500,000 stack of reports stating they owe you money

>Then your buying power would be limited to the point of a handful of businesses unless crypto gets a ton more recognition.

Not really, there are some things coming up soon that will allow me to use crypto for anything I want.

So if i started with $100 of btc in oct, traded it the last few months, turned it into $1000 at peak, but ultimately back to $100 currently, if i cashed out right now I would have to pay taxes? kek

you gotta have a job first to get a payday loan... hence the word payday

Fuck are you going on about, theres some useful advice ITT

> falls for one scam
> paydown loan?
> let me go back on another scam.

No wonder you invested too much, OP is indeed retarded.

i wonder if you can file it as a depreciable asset then

>doesn't work like that, you still have to pay, you just get jail time as well

they... they can't just take it out of my ass instead of my wallet?

the only useful advice you need to know, you absolute faggot, is that you dont have to report shit until they come to your house
Now fuck off kike lover

That is literally impossible and you are a massive brainlet

Pic related, its you.

Sure hope you never put your bank account onto anything

Only valid advice is pay when you cash out. Doesn't matter if its the law. There are laws against giving blow jobs in some states. Not all laws are enforced.

Only coinbase, for when I cash out tiny amounts
the fees are a write off
also you need SS inputted for them to tax you
Its been 2 years, where are you IRS? Ive been waiting you faggot kikes but no one ever comes. Dont you guys want to find out how much rebate you owe me? guess not

any online tax form program may do your stuff correctly, but you better double and triple check that work - if the IRS audits you randomly and finds errors in your crypto form you're gonna need to widen your asshole and do one probably manually. There are crypto tax professionals out there, but IIRC they aren't cheap. I'm not recommending any specific tax site because there are a lot out there, but bitcoin.tax is alright. Just check your work and make sure you have every transaction logged. If you made good decisions with your crypto you should be able to pay your taxes no prob and then withdraw your lambo money without fear.

tax based on your gain from the btc you used to buy it with brainlet.

I've had a surprisingly hard time finding the answer to this, but can you change cost basis method each year? I'm wary that if I don't do FIFO this year next year i'll have fucked myself even worse and then can't change or vice versa.

AS long as you are consistent over all your trades in the same year, you're fine. They all eventually get taxed.

I would guess so because bitcoin.tax gives you your cost bases for your holdings at the end of the year so when you plug that in for the next years taxes you can calculate based on the new method, but i'm not sure. In any case hopefully I'll have enough money to make a tax professional worthwhile and have made less stupid mistakes so I'll feel like less of an idiot when I have to show someone else my trades .

thanks yea I'm definitely spot checking it by hand to. I know fuck all the people who say not to pay, if you're planning on making it in the future you need to have all your ducks in a row for the years preceding.

ah okay that's what I was thinking thanks.

cant you just write off your net loss vs gain?

Like if you cash out on BTC when it was 15k then reinvested at 14k only for it to drop to now 7k and say you panic sold can't you just use the 50% loss as a write off?

Go to a tax attorney, he will defer you until next year, and your gains will balance against your losses. Don't be fucking retarded.

Only if it is during the same year. next year he can take off 3000 in losses from last year..
$3000 carries forward year to year

This. State tax commission are assholes. hospital got the majority of my state tax return. I got a whopping 40 bucks. The state always fucks me over. IRS is pretty chill in my experience.

>yearly taxed based on your capital
Are you kidding?!
So you pay tax on your balance, whether you made any money on it or not?
What is the tax rate for that?

>What is the tax rate for that?

Zero, because you only pay taxes when you cash out.

The reason they can tax stocks differently is because you actually do have to sell the stock for fiat when you want to buy another stock. It works perfectly. They want to try and apply this logic to crypto but it simply doesn't work that way. If you were to trade every coin to fiat before then buying another coin then this logic would work fine.

Maybe the best course of action will be to rework exchanges so that they don't allow direct trades between coins. Coin to coin trades are not the same as cashing out however. They can say it until they are blue in the face and cry to high heavens and demand that the universe change its rules for them. But its a completely different situation and they have no control over that. You can have an literal army of shills yelling directly in your face.

If it doesn't touch fiat then its not a taxable event. You cant force people to cash out. It wont hold up in court.

>Coin to coin trades are not the same as cashing out however. They can say it until they are blue in the face and cry to high heavens and demand that the universe change its rules for them. But its a completely different situation and they have no control over that.
You can say that but literally every tax expert says that's not true for americans.

for first offense? Of small time cucks like us?
Don't make me laugh, aint shit like that happen for crypto. They want your meme money, but they will not throw little biztards in jail for not paying their $300 due
You stupid jewish loving faggot, fuck out of here

Can you name one other example where you are forced to sell your digital asset to pay off ownership of your digital asset via taxes?

what? There's never been anything like crypto before so it's unsurprising that situation has yet to happen, I'm just repeating what everyone is saying. There's no point in risking it and getting fucked down the line. Crypto lets you keep pretty good records so you can choose a cost basis that is fairly favorable and not end up having to pay too much.

>what? There's never been anything like crypto before so it's unsurprising that situation has yet to happen,

Crypto is no different from any other digital good. All of them require some degree of ownership. All of them use some form of cryptography to send and receive them in trades. Either it be in peer to peer, hubs, client server architecture.

> There's no point in risking it and getting fucked down the line.

Its not a risk at all. You take a greater risk just getting into crypto in the first place. The risk that bitcoin will drop to 0 is far greater than the IRS suddenly getting the ability to begin taxing people for playing video games. And frankly its a none issue.

Guys I'm too poverty so couldn't get into any coins or learn much about them yet. But when you talk about taxes on them, how would the government know you didn't pay taxes over coin transactions? I thought the whole point of them was for their anonymity. Can someone explain this to my retarded ass?

about 4% per year

Unlike a lot of the lying kikes spreading tax FUD he didn't say he owes taxes on his trades. (He doesn't.) However I'm in the same position. I've made no gains on crypto, but my tax bill on other income is greater than what I have in the bank.

The only way to put yourself in such a position in crypto is to cash out to fiat before the first of the year, stupidly not withhold taxes owed on that profit, then put it all back in and lose it.

help

nope, its the way it is in norway. our tax fed wrote articles about it. we dont pay taxes until we realize the investment into fiat.