Universal Basic Income

>as it already has high support from useless entitled faggot sjw bums

ftfy

I'm against the thing. A lot of people on this site support it and that's why i'm asking the questions.

Costs are nowhere near free, machines are a huge overhead. People still have to run them to an extent, there's conception and advertising, maintenance etc.

Furthermore no one is entitled to anything regardless of its cost. You are entitled to what you make.

No it doesnt.

But why would you even need income in a post-scarcity society?

But for real, all of this hand wringing over the robots reminds me of the 80's when auto assembly lines started getting automated. Oh noes, teh sky is falling! Gibs monies pls!

It doesn't matter if it's fair or not according to your morals, without it there will be civil war

The problem with UBI is it starts to look like communism very quickly.

UBI is the lie they tell you to do what they want without the world chimping out

They will do a to avoid b and to make money. Without ubi who will buy their products?

Get the concept of "fair" our of your head. It has no meaning post-scarcity. If robots don't need money, and they are the ones producing value, it doesn't make sense for the robot owners to take all that money, leaving everyone else with no money. Who will pay for the service the robot provides if nobody has money? Without a strong economy, their value means nothing.

UBI only pays for your needs. The idea is that automation allows for a world where no one has to work to survive. We have such an abundance of resources that no one needs to starve, everyone can have a roof over their head. We’d reap the benefits of our tremendous technological advancement.

However: people should still be rewarded for doing work and contributing to society. Money will not be used to satisfy basic needs but instead be used for Wants, for luxury goods, for bigger homes, fancier cars.

UBI is BASIC income. It’s not high income.

The people who don’t work will be free to live in their little box and not starve to death. If they want to do more, if they want to travel and afford tickets to concerts and buy cool gadgets and all of that, they’ll have to work.

This is fair.

there are no needs and wants. you only need food because you dont want to die of starvation. UBI is communist slavery, or at least that's what the results would end up as.

machines will still be owned by people

and what do those people gain by keeping you alive? remember that anything you could ever do for someone else, a machine could do better

Civil war between people so stupid they can be replaced by primitive robotics and so lacking in creativity and energy that they cant develop new opportunities vs the high IQ rich in control of society with total control of production and robotics.

I think im not worried.

>look at all these tools that expand farming output with less work involved, all these people will be unemployed
This is how you sound.

This tbqh. The work will just be different. People will have to be more creative.

Do it through a coin of some sort. Airdrop rewards every few hours and provide a marketplace. Like this one: swiftdemand.com/?referred_by=viadata

You're not one of those people unless you're basically rothschild tier. Just because you have a couple of million doesn't mean you have any worth, you're still a useless eater. And don't give me some bullshit about you being industrial or whatever, the owners hate competition.

UBI will cause nothing but inflation and lower living standards

if you argue for this, neck yourself

The High IQ rich will be fighting a war with each other, as many of them are socialists or will be when shit gets bad

The inflation gets out of control really fast with UBI.

For example this soon to be crypto Swiftdemand. Literally last week there were 167 mil total now we are approaching 200mil. Everyone still gets the same amount at the same schedule but it is worth less every time. So just give them more and you can see how UBI will fail fast.

swiftdemand.com/?referred_by=calpico

Receiving something for nothing is the opposite of fair. Someone is producing something, even if its just design, creation and maintenance of the machines. Nor does abundance ever last forever, we've been doing an experiment with UBI in africa for generations and they just expand to the point of starvation at every instance.

Finally people will not use their money responsibly, these arent the best of humanity we're talking about being replaced by bots. That money will be blown and the problems of crime and unemployment will exist all the same.

nigger can’t even spell

They'll just make robotic consumers.

But several experts and articles have said 80 - 90 percent of jobs will become automated. How is someone meant to find work in a society like that so they can afford more than their needs?

Im a psychiatrist, im safe for my foreseeable lifetime. If it does ever become automated i can respecialize into any number of medical fields straight away. My wife is a chemical engineer and my siblings are bankers. I also paint a lot so if shit really goes down i have a creative option. I am truly not concerned.

>Receiving something for nothing is the opposite of fair.
That's all nice and good but it's still manmade morality. It's unnatural, and when people are starving to death they wont give a shit about your perceptions about what is right or wrong, and really they have no reason to.

>A lot of people on this site support it

No-one fucking supports it except the lowest form of drooling neet commie spastic

They're socialists when living far away from its consequences, it changes the second they actually experience it. Just as a few people i know live in the 100% white cotswalds and preach about how awful racism is.

>But why would you even need income in a post-scarcity society?

Antiques and other items of defined limited supply. Like prime places on a beech.

German here
The only way this society of envy would implement an acceptable standard of living is absolute necessity. State and society only implements something this expensive if survival is threatened. This implies revolt of the masses but they already have their bare minimum subsidized. Technically, we already have UBI - but only for those that really need it. Sure, its a difference if ALL get gibs or only thw poorest but its the latter that would riot if no food/shelter. Remember, we are already at 70% tax (income of 50% plus consumption of 20%).

>Im a psychiatrist, im safe for my foreseeable lifetime
Top kek, you delusional, arrogant piece of shit. All of the things you've mentioned can be 90% automated. You also conveniently glossed over the fact that you're a worthless eater. 95% of humans will not be needed after we have full automatization, it doesn't matter if you can get a job supplying other humans with services when those humans themselves are worthless and have no reason to exist according to the owners.

>when people are starving to death they wont give a shit about your perceptions about what is right or wrong

No they will just die like Ireland or Ethiopia. What's you point commie faggot? At no point do I want to feed you.

>Im a psychiatrist, im safe for my foreseeable lifetime.

Holy fucking shit, this is the kind of mouth-breather that posts on a board about business and finance

You're deluded if you think the average wealthy person will have any influence what so ever.

ah look a refugee servant who wants social support to sit around being useless. You can always be sold for organ transplants. Get a fucking job.

>We have such an abundance of resources that no one needs to starve, everyone can have a roof over their head.
this is absolute bullshit, the soviet union had enough resources to guarantee a great life for everyone inside it, but because of the communist government everything went to shit so badly that even now russia is just barely figuring out how to cast high strength steel in it's submarines without fucking up, something that the US figured out in the 1950s

oh, and it's barely figuring out how to make jet engines that don't burst into flames after a year of use, meanwhile the US has thousands of decades old jets with engines so much more advanced than state of the art russian ones it's not even funny.

china is the same, it's "stealth jets" are designed for architectural stealth, because they can't actually make hard baked stealth panels like the US can. most of it's soldiers don't have radios since making millions of the things is out of the question. they can't even issue their troops underwear.

capitalism is the only functioning system we've found so far, and it REQUIRES people to fail for others to succeed. the trick to capitalism is that even though 95% of people will fail, the 5% that succeed will end up enriching the others. your average trailer dwelling southern redneck is just as poor as the average trailer dwelling southern redneck in the 1950s, the difference between the two is that the current day one has cell phone access, power, access to modern medical care (don't give me that IT COSTS TOO MUCH bullshit, at least rednecks can obtain emergency heart surgeries), and guaranteed security from being killed by roaming soviet soldiers.

why do modern rednecks have those things? because among other things, over the last 60 years about 10,000 entrepreneurs lucked out and started successful companies that developed new technologies. meanwhile the soviet union did fucking nothing.

UBI will always fail, even if we have "automation".

If we're absolving ourselves of man made morality then those starving to death, with low skill and no production on their side are in an even worse position.

>You're deluded if you think the average wealthy person will have any influence what so ever.

Your deluded of you think that poor people have any influence whatsoever. You entitlement looser scum

>muh ideology
They will try to kill you, if they fail or not I don't really give a shit, there is nothing inherently good with either side.

I never said they would. Kill yourself you fucking subhuman sub-80 IQ brainlet.

In theory, if you blow your UBI on frivolous shit you should just suffer the consequences or go bother your family. But in reality you can’t just let poor people lie dying in the streets so there will have to still be some sort of welfare on top of it.

These threads are basically communist generals in disguise.

The entire concept is retarded and everyone who supports it is a starry eyed sheltered economically illiterate liberal

I think a lot of depressed neets will need help come automation. Also im sure in time all careers may come to be replaced but not within the next 50 years.

UBI would only work in a smart society with no brown people who'd spend it all on alcohol, drugs and bitches.

But then again, smart people wouldn't need UBI.

If I got UBI, I'd put it all into crypto.

You're not getting it. The depressed neets are not needed and neither are you. There is no reason for the owners to keep either of you alive.

Basically this. The lower echelons of society will be culled (or will work for cheaper than the robots). Pushing for UBI only legitimizes the grand power imbalance.

jesus christ if this were 2008 you'd be one of those "i wouldn't be a farmer in a communist society, i'd be a card carrying party member!" fucks

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE AN "OWNER"
YOUR MEME COINS WILL NOT HELP YOU HERE

And unless your last name is Shekelberg don't think you aren't going to get culled too son.
Those kikes love watching you play Red Vs. Blue on here while they continue to cement their rule over all things tangible.

Well then im fine too, most users of low end psychiatric services are in middle to upper classes and intelligent. Furthermore a medical degree is quite an open tool, i can change at whim. Maybe ill help soothe the minds of the high IQ controllers so they can set their robots to more ruthlessly blast povos away.

Name a single instance where UBI has been implemented where the country hasn't immediately collapsed.

I'll wait.

let me guess

>muh venezuela

Literally all of the Arab states have robust social welfare systems since it's pretty much written into their religion. Pretty much any country outside of the Jewish sphere of influence can pull it off.

Not just the lower echelons, think more like 90-99% of the population.

You're retarded and a brainlet, not surprising considering the fact that you're a psychiatrist. I never said I was going to be one of the owners. I never said crypto could make me one of them. In fact I said just the opposite. You're fucking retarded. The point is I'm not "needed" and neither are you, or anyone else on this website. If you're part of the psychopath cabal that will own the multinational corporations owning all industrial output, there is no reason to keep the useless eaters alive, it's a net cost, they're not contributing like the tax serfs of today, so they'll probably just try get rid of us. Which will be an extremely easy thing to do with our modern controlled society and all the modern technology.

It's not about class in the traditional sense. It's about the 0.0001% owning all industrial output vs everyone else, the useless eaters.

>You're retarded and a brainlet, not surprising considering the fact that you're a psychiatrist.
what?

>I never said I was going to be one of the owners.
you have been strutting around this thread calling 95% of the population of earth useless meatbags while at the same time acting like you're some 150 IQ genius. you're delusional or you're full of yourself, pick one.

>The point is I'm not "needed" and neither are you, or anyone else on this website.
you're full of shit, then.

>If you're part of the psychopath cabal that will own the multinational corporations owning all industrial output, there is no reason to keep the useless eaters alive
>so they'll probably just try get rid of us.
>extremely easy thing to do with our modern controlled society and all the modern technology.
the exact same logic was used to justify the guaranteed continuing strength of the soviet union.

>useless
Their feeble minds are inextricably bound by the doctrine of authority. Sounds pretty useful to me.

>Arab states
So only countries with small populations and literally more wealth than they could spend in a lifetime, gotcha

...

What annoys me are the UBI experiments they trot out with a limited number of people. They're not universal!
Then you have the people who want UBI and open borders, which is the height of retardation.
I hope some country does implement it. They will get rekt worse than Venezuela and I will laugh.

>you have been strutting around this thread calling 95% of the population of earth useless meatbags while at the same time acting like you're some 150 IQ genius. you're delusional or you're full of yourself, pick one.
You fucking retard holy shit. I never said that you fucking moron. I would be considered useless meatbag just like everyone on this website, I'm just telling you what their mentality is.

This. Commies have no idea of costs. They think free means no cost to anyone.

We already have UBI for niggers. You can see how well that's turned out.

A machine will always be more obedient.

Dont use the term niggers please

no nigger is a great term because it scares normies away, we need more racist, nazi, gore shit on this board

dont tell others what words to use. do you know how bad this makes you look? like how thin skinned are you? are you even old enough to use the internet?

>trusting the government to make sure you eat and can buy things
lol ok

>but user it will be sto cheap all the stuff because technologies
sure, but the government still doesn't care. it's not look good people make it into power very often. the assholes in charge may decide its easier to keep you poor then to have robot factories toil away to make stuff for useless eaters.

meanwhile any corporation or business that wants customers is going to realize that to have customers with money you need customers with jobs, which means you need employees and so does everyone.

so its the governments lust for power vs greed for profit.

they are automating the banking and medical sectors right now you dumbass

Reddit, I....

That sounds like a nigger and wants free money?

fuck off back to r eddit you don't belong here
stay poor

Why not? Do you want to suppress the truth? Niggers are niggers, thats why we call them niggers!

...

Nice argument fag

>we need more racist, nazi, gore shit on this board

sure user, /b/ and /pol/ are clearly not filled with reddit normies

:^)

commie filth

>machines are a huge overhead

Oh yeah, compared to the cost of employing people, fucking yuuuuuuge overhead. How the fuck will we ever get by with all this productivity?

>Nobody is entitled to anything. You are entitled to what you make

Naive, ignorant, and short sighted. As a capitalist you also believe that less efficient processes should be eliminated. If I am a weaver, I cannot make anything or participate in a market which has been completely automated. No, you're wrong. Machines are eliminating the need for human labor outside of machine repair (which will eventually be eliminated too) and the end result will be only efficient energy production and machines doing the rest. The answer is we need to restructure from a human labor economy to a machine labor economy and fight price memory on processes which have been made vastly more efficient and profits are being drained from the system.

UBI is unironically the only way to go, and I have yet to hear any rational counterarguments that go adequately beyond "you can't just give people something for nothing, that's communism". Despite driving for a blockchain revolution (not really, you just want the gainz), you seem to be absolutely alienated from reality of what automation is doing to humans and from an ethical point of view, you really hold a kind of degenerate nihilist viewpoint that I hope dies off as we evolve as species not only economically and technologically, but also morally. I can with 100% certainty say, that if you, the nihilist neet, were given the types of resources (((they))), meaning the Rothchilds and Soroses of this world have, we would be living in an even more perverted world than we are today.

I sincerely hope you all lose everything you have. Which I'm sure you will, because most of you never worked for that money any way, but got it handed down from your rich parents or by buying crypto a year ago, which, btw is not a sign of your superior intelligence.

>UBI is unironically the only way to go

wrapping r edditots in duct take strapping them into rockets and shooting them at mars to work as penal slaves seems a better way to go

>Naive, ignorant, and short sighted.

I've never met you but I want to piss in your mouth. Communist hipster vermin. Here's you {nigger}

see this is what I was talking about. You seem like a horrible person really.

why does this look like something 5-6 year old should be doing?

>culled

They'll let them die off sure, but nobody is killing anybody. Fact is, more people still can get more done; more fields of research, etc. But there will be more demand for that and the generic "labor" human which might well turn to violence out of boredom and/or lack of purpose will probably cease to exist. When there is an arbitrary population, we will have as many people as we need, and yes, people who do nothing will probably not be sustainable. Certain types of people will thrive post automation. We won't go down 90% of our population, but it will decline probably 30-40% as we lose most of the mindlessness in africa and a lot of the drug addled homelessness in the developed world

>see this is what I was talking about. You seem like a horrible person really.

Gibs me free universal income commie faggot or I piss in your mouth. See? I loathe you too. No interest in feeding commie faggots, you are for shooting not feeding.

Industrial output, for exactly fucking whom? The industrial complexes will continue to make money and expand, and when the profits have ran dry and people can no longer work for fully automated factories, those factories will continue to churn out goods at low cost and humanity will continue to reap the benefits. Eventually the "my factory my money" type will die off as ownership of the means of production becomes arbitrary because there will be no profits from human labor to demand.

>communism doesn't work
Neither does neofeudalism tbqhwy

Automation will not lead to mass unemployment. It's a fucking meme. No invention from the horse plough to the printing press to the electric light has ever done that. We'll either adjust our desired outcome or make laws to work fewer hours. Just as we've always done.

Know your place serf