I'm an early Bitcoin investor(2011), and I fully support BCH as the "real" Bitcoin. These arguments have been repeated over and over, with no actual rebuttal, but here we go again. LN is a laughable scaling solution that centralizes payment routes and naturally evolves towards a hub-and-spoke model. The argument that routing is NP-hard is laughable, at the scale of LN, that shit doesn't matter. However, that doesn't detract from the fact that LN has many blaring problems. If we're talking about concrete issues that are apparent right now, having hubs that are central points of failure is horrible for censorship resistance. Regarding future issues, it's likely that according to US regulations at least that LN hubs will be classified as 3rd party settlement organizations, and it will be illegal for businesses to use noncompliant hubs. These regulations require hubs to collect KYC information and adhere to AML laws. Meanwhile, on-chain scaling solutions don't require an additional network that is open to centralization or attacks the same way LN is. The most obvious on-chain solution is to simply increase the block size. While Blockstream shills argue that increasing the block size will lead to fewer full nodes, the reality is that
1. storage costs are continuously going down 2. "full" nodes without hashpower are meaningless(more on this later), and 3. it was in Satoshi's vision to increase the block size as time went on.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Kys immediately.
Jose Rogers
Expanding on the second point, the only thing Bitcoin solves is the double spending problem(look it up). Signed transactions in a ledger is nothing revolutionary. Bitcoin is revolutionary because it doesn't require trust to keep the ledger in check, which it does via PoW. The network rules(size of a block, reward in a block, difficulty etc.) are irrelevant since any miner who breaks them will fork themselves to another network. It is in no one's interest to break them. However, miners with enough hashpower can rewrite the ledger with no consequences, and "full" nodes(with no hashpower) can't do JACK SHIT about it. "Full" nodes simply blindly accept whichever chain has the most proof of work. I'm not even going to go into RBF which gimped zeroconf transactions. The hard truth is, Blockstream is a company, and they're gimping the actual blockchain in order to sell their proprietary solutions to companies. It's sad to see the direction BTC is taking. /r/bitcoin is a prime example of the censorship that is going on. Look all of this shit up and you'll agree that Bitcoin Cash is the legitimate Bitcoin.
>inb4 called a shill I own no BTC and no BCH. Bitcoin(either one) has no future as a mainstream currency. If you have a rebuttal against my arguments, please reply.
William Sanders
lets face it, this is the only fork that matters
Nathaniel Stewart
Bitcoin vs Ethereum bcash.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Jose Rodriguez
>faggot cashie cunts think it is a binary choice >faggot cashie cunts think that a gen 1 shitcoin like bcash will be the future cashies are mongloids
Ayden Cooper
>reading comprehension Read my second post, you pathetic faggot.
>>Muh copy paste I wrote this by hand(granted, I edited a shorter version I posted yesterday). If you have an actual rebuttal against the points I make, please go ahead.
Josiah Ortiz
> The full story of /r/bitcoin - info about Blockstream, etc:
"Shortly after Blockstream came active on the scene, every single anti-bitcoin troll on /r/bitcoin disappeared. In the years before that, there were a large number of anti-bitcoin trolls. Up until last year, you could go down to the bottom of pretty much any thread in /r/bitcoin and see many of the usual trolls who were heavily downvoted for saying things like "bitcoin is shit" and "you guys and your tulips" etc. But then suddenly they all disappeared. Instead, a new type of people appeared - people who said they were fully in support of bitcoin, but they just so happened to support every single thing Blockstream and its employees said and did. They had the exact same tone as the anti-Bitcoin trolls who had disappeared. Their way of talking to people was aggressive, they'd call people names, they had a relatively poor understanding of how bitcoin fundamentally worked."
John Peterson
FACTS:
Blockstream receives their funding from AXA Strategic Ventures (owned by Henri de Castries). And from Digital Currency Group - a venture capital firm whose board director is Glenn Hutchins of the Fed Reserve Bank. MasterCard also invested in DCG.
Robert Nguyen
Nobody will fall for your retarded bitcoin propaganda conspiracy and bcash shill. Bcash sucks and the marketing and community won't trick me, they can hoard all brainless naive faggots but us smart people see through their bullshit.
>muh bcash is the original bitcoin
No idiot kys. It's a fork so altcoin
Cameron Gomez
BTC, after Blockstream took control over it, /that/ is the fork.
BCH is the original Bitcoin, free from Blockstream's control. Uncorrupted.
Aaron Reyes
No you brainless, spineless, retard. Make your own conclusion. Compare pre-fork, post-rock and NOW. It's bcash deceptive marketing tricking low intelligent people like you.
>i cant refute a single point of substance so ill just pout and say no
Lincoln Brown
> "Bitcoin is the currency of the Internet. A distributed, worldwide, decentralized digital money. Unlike traditional currencies such as dollars, bitcoins are issued and managed without the need for any central authority whatsoever. There is no government, company, or bank in charge of Bitcoin. As such, it is more resistant to wild inflation and corrupt banks. With Bitcoin, you can be your own bank."
THAT is what Bitcoin is! Exactly that.
And that description does NOT describe BTC anymore. BTC (since Blockstream took control of it) is going in the opposite direction of that description. Blockstream is turning it into the opposite it of what it's supposed to be.
And in fact, Blockstream paid shills are now even trying to change people's "perception" or "idea" of what Bitcoin is supposed to be. They want people to now think "Bitcoin was not meant to be a currency" and that it only is supposed to be an investment and a store of value for rich people, and nothing else.
So they come here and write shit like "it's not a currency" and make fake threads like these:
Love seeing more of these type of post here as more people are waking up to see the truth and reality as we move forward. Roger continually says that this year Cash will replace Core as dominant market cap coin, I think he knows why more than any core shill here.
Dominic Fisher
Don't be ridiculous. I have nothing against the project itself bcash but their retarded gimmick and advertising is stupid and malicious. Bcash is a fork from bitcoin thus just as much bitcoin as diamond or gold.
William Robinson
>ASICBoost, the reason why Bitmain blocked Segwit. >Bitmain produces around ~70% of all miners and put quite a few companies out of business. >Mining is a small profit margin business, if 1 company can boost its profits by 30% that is significant and get up to an extra $100 million per year. >Bitmain wanted to push Segwit either through a hard fork, or in Extension Blocks which would be compatible with their ASICBoost. A soft fork of Segwit, which is by far the safest option, isn’t compatible and they would lose their advantage over other miners.
>having hubs that are central points of failure is horrible for censorship resistance. Regarding future issues, it's likely that according to US regulations at least that LN hubs will be classified as 3rd party settlement organizations As if regulation is a bad thing. Blosckstream is already working to make the hubs compatible with law: markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/Shyft-Introduces-Revolutionary-Blockchain-Based-KYC-AML-Network-For-Global-Economy-1015123156 BTC will never be adopted without being a regulated bank. What could an investor hope for more than the blessing of the banks and governments?
The LN isn't a 2nd layer, it's really a new PoS fork of BTC. It'll be BTC 2.0, backed up by the old ledger but using completely new solutios.
Benjamin Evans
And so the narrative shifts, "LIGHTNING WILL MAKE BITCOIN DECENTRALISED FOREVER AND TRUE TO THE CYPERPUNK VISION BCASH IS A SCAM BY BIG CORPORATES" becomes "Of course lightning will shift Bitcoin to ground where it can be bought under the necessary regulation, AMLKYC compliance and other essential features will be implemented" all the while ignoring that this is exactly what the Bitcoin Cash guys said would happen.
Evan Perry
Why didn't they make Bitcoin Copper Private Cash with all of the pros of all? We need more forks, that will help with the scarcity.
That is NOT what bitcoin is. It always was a pump and dump, you can't explain 200B MC of a product which nobody uses for anything otherwise.
Nobody is using XLM.
Hudson Robinson
>needing to adopt bitcoin, then segwit, and then LN, and then probably KYC compliance
Yo dawg, I heard you like to cripple adoption. So we put adoption in your adoption so you can adopt while you adopt.
GEE IT SURE IS CONVENIENT TO USE BLOCKSTREAM CORE
Robert Cooper
I didn't know there were so many bch supporters here...
Camden Gonzalez
Ding ding ding. XLM is the future. Like I said here , BTC/BCH(or any coin which uses PoW for that matter) does not have a future as a mainstream currency, simply because PoW is flawed. PoW is linearly broken, will always be an arms race of better performing hardware, and is extremely inefficient. XLM uses a federated Byzantine agreement, which reaches consensus within seconds without any staking/mining going on. It's efficient as fuck, and federated means the network is not under control by an entity like Ripple. The Stellar network can carry any kind of other currencies/tokens as well. The future(let's say 20 years from now) will have 3 main cryptocurrencies:
XLM for mainstream use. You would use XLM to pay for your cup of coffee and your Amazon order. XMR for privacy use. You would use XMR to pay for your baggie of heroin on a DNM. ETH(will most likely be replaced by a better alternative) + LINK for smart contracts. Self explanatory.
Ethereum will either undergo massive revamps or be forgotten. EVM is a clusterfuck. Unsafe math in a smart contract language? Seriously?
Henry Bennett
Why even use crypto if it requires all these things? srs question
Elijah King
You Blockstream shills will continue to try deceive people into believing Bitcoin is what Blockstream says it is. You count on people being ignorant, for your deception to work.
Blockstream only cares about the name "Bitcoin" -- they don't give a shit about the technology. The entire purpose of the Blockstream takeover, is to destroy what Bitcoin is intended to be. The more you change Bitcoin, the less it is Bitcoin. Today, BTC is approximately half intact, half destroyed; it's half of what Bitcoin is meant to be. A few years from now after Blockstream is finished with it, it will be fully destroyed - the only thing BTC will have in common with Bitcoin will be the name. And that's all that matters to Blockstream.
BTC is is not Bitcoin anymore. BTC is Blockstream Coin. It is the Banker Coin - that's what they're turning it into.
Bitcoin on the other hand, that is the currency of the Internet. A distributed, worldwide, decentralized digital money.
Unlike traditional currencies such as dollars, bitcoins are issued and managed without the need for any central authority whatsoever.
There is no government, company, or bank in charge of Bitcoin. As such, it is more resistant to wild inflation and corrupt banks. With Bitcoin, you can be your own bank.
>BTC will never be adopted without being a regulated bank. What could an investor hope for more than the blessing of the banks and governments? You look at BTC as an investment vehicle. Notice how I never said anything about which one of BTC or BCH would succeed financially. I'm looking at Bitcoin as a revolution of money. That is the difference between you and me. Also, if you want a controlled coin, go invest in Ripple.
None of you bring up any points.
Isaiah Hughes
Work on your reading comprehension.
Jackson Rivera
>Implying nothing better is coming along and the current cryptoassets are the only viable options
Dylan Morgan
nigga...half of Veeky Forums came from /pol/ and is posting that ironically because it's a meme
Isaac Kelly
Would you feel better if it was an infograph instead?
Kayden Barnes
I should have clarified, those 3 particular currencies might be replaced by alternatives, but those will be the general classes and I firmly believe XLM will hold its spot as the convenience cryptocurrency.
Robert Baker
We have a free to join group for ALL like minded investors. There will be absolutely NO VIP/premium subscription membership B.S.
It will be FREE forever. The group is fun and also Crypto oriented with LESS Spam, would you like to join? We don’t need 15,000 people, 100 contributing traders is enough. I'm only asking people I think will bring value to the community
|discord| |dot| gg (/) WMwVeW5
Christian King
Dude we aren’t guna buy your bags and pump this shit more so you can cash out back into the real bitcoin lel
Joseph Morales
> "The LN isn't a 2nd layer, it's really a new PoS fork of BTC." So you admit that with the introduction of Lightning Network, you guys are creating a piece of shit fork. Why would we want a piece of shit fork of Bitcoin? When we can stay with the original Bitcoin (now called BCH) which has super low fees, is super fast, and doesn't need to be fixed/patched with LN or other bullshit, and doesn't need any of the regulation and corporate control that comes with LN etc.
You're basically trying to sell people a rotten meal full of flies and maggots in it, for a high cost, when people can get a normal, non-rotten meal, for free.
Levi Martin
Just some research you limp dicked faggot. Blockstream main investor is the DCG (digital currency group) and when you look at their advisors and founders it's full of fucking jews, wall street big heads and bankers from the FED. You srsly think they want btc to replace banking? Think again.
Evan White
>Why would we want a piece of shit fork of Bitcoin? >When we can stay with the original Bitcoin (now called BCH) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
David Parker
>us smart people You're literally doing exactly what described. Except there's nobody here to upboat you and this place is filled with people trained in the art of seeing through bullshit like yours. The more you/your cohorts try to support each other, the more obvious the charade becomes.
Lucas Jones
Wow look I found a picture of you.
Henry Gomez
delusional Bcore cucks want all opposition banned immediately. Fuck them, were takin it back wether they like it or not.
Most of you dont understand that Cash is not like other forks of Bitcoin, and there are many. Cash is the only one that can replace Bitcoin as they share the same Hashpower and Miners. No other fork of bitcoin comes close. Cash also remains true to the original vision and white paper and developers.
David James
Because
Cooper Price
bcash shills are literally the scientologists of cryptocurrency
hows todays dump going for your bags?
Gavin Taylor
What makes BCorporate the "real" bitcoin?
Colton Perry
No, Core Cult is very real and way bigger and more violent than Cashies could ever think of being. Even Roger and Craig state numerous time of continued death threats against them from your ilk.
Jaxon Moore
unanimous consensus
Logan Murphy
WRONG! It's the price.
By god people here are so fucking stupid.
Carson Cox
...
Jack Peterson
Leftists are always violent first.
Ian Wood
hahahahaha fuck off back to plebbit. it's funny how you fags show up here to shill and think anyone outside of your echo chamber cares about bcash or your blockstream conspiracies. keep holding that scamcoin user, see you at .9 sats soon
Parker Diaz
It's not cult. It never was a cult. It's people who believe their bags will be worth a lot more only if there's no competition.
Owen Long
>see you at .9 sats soon
That's a good thing for us, you dumb nigger. Although we all knew parity and beyond will be reached this year anyway.
Chase Lee
nope, not a leftie. forgot to add also violence to their families too.
Liam Phillips
>becoming worthless is good for us, its part of rogers plan
the absolute state of bcash shills
Wyatt Torres
cool story bro
Caleb Morris
How fucking dumb are you, nigger?
1 = 1 BTC
.9 = .9 BTC
BCH is currently at .144 BTC
Kayden Wood
The Enemy wants to change the whitepaper. Why? Because they absolutely HATE Bitcoin and hate what it's supposed to be.
Asher Torres
obviously theres a zero missing there pajeet hey, remember when bcash was .34 sats?
its worth less than half of that now.
HAHAHAHAHAHA im done giving your shitcoin attention, you can keep samefagging with the other shills now
Logan Jenkins
...
Mason Davis
What zero?
>remember when price action happened
>keep samefagging Do you even know what that means? We have IDs on this board, stupid faggot.
Cameron Lewis
>your shitty pasta has been rebutted a million times >"Work on your reading comprehension"
Nolan Garcia
Last time your dumb asses predicted a flippening the $20k bull ran was about to start. Of course, during the bull market all of you cucks disappeared, now that we've been correcting you fucktards are out of your caves again, which is where you will return as we get closer to a new ATH, and so follows. This is to be rehashed a million times, like Mike Gavin's asshole.
Gavin Scott
They believe if they send their shills here and tell them to use "Veeky Forums language" it will make them blend in and make them seem like real people.
John Perry
>too retarded to realize that BCH mooned harder than BTC from Nov 24th
kek, also idk why you think that's me. My name is David btw.
Luis Nelson
Bitcoin cash is proof that there was no consensus. if there was consensus BCH would never have been created.
Think on that for long enough and your view will dissolve. Which is how I know you won't think on it at all.
Noah Ortiz
...
Owen Martinez
Peer to ((((Corporation running node))) to Peer is not Peer to Peer and certainly not cash, you muh whitepaper autists.
Angel Nguyen
It's so obvious literally all cashies are redditors.
Hunter Hill
Why haven't you done this yet op.
Stop brigading our board. It's sad and pathetic and only makes people here hate your scamcoin even more.
Kys ASAP.
Connor Peterson
UASF caused Segwit. UASF is not consensus, that's why there was a chainsplit. It forced Segwit onto everybody and now we're here.
I don't see how larger gains is cope, but okay.
Non-mining nodes don't do dick or decentralize anything, you're a fucking idiot.
He was agreeing with me that the guy using "samefag" doesn't understand the term, again you're stupid.
Benjamin Reed
Newfag detected. People holding bitcoin during the fork received equal amounts in BCH. That's how a fork works.
Eli Murphy
LN payments are encrypted you fucking brainlet. Even if payments had to go through a big super evil hub the hub literally couldn't know where payments come from or where they're going.
Kill yourself. End your brainlet life now.
Who the fuck cares? Do you even know what newfag means, newfag? Buy a noose, google how to make a neat knot and end it now. Thanks.
Julian Cook
>nano and iota are the futtuuuurreee!!!
Dylan Morgan
>LN payments are encrypted Get a load of this retard. All businesses will have to comply with KYC. They won't accept privacy routed payments. The only work around for this is for you and a friend setup a Onion routed channel together and you route payments through him. You stay user, but he doesn't. So it doesn't actually help anyone because A) nobody will assume the risk of routing potentially illegal transactions and B) even if they do assume the risk, they're going to jail for falsifying KYC on top of an already illegal transaction.
>who cares kys U mad bro?
James Butler
>All businesses will have to comply with KYC. They won't accept privacy routed payments.
Just like no business accepts cash right? You're so fucking retarded I can't even find the proper adjective.
Ethan Bailey
Using cash isn't the same as a payment processor, brainlet. That's why crypto doesn't require KYC now. jfc
Brayden James
The bankers and VC's pushing the blockstream plan have deep pockets, but they're not going to be able to outspend the entire global economy.
Western exchanges already do KYC. Stop making shit up, no one is buying it.
Chase Turner
Still no rebuttals.
I posted my "pasta" once before(which was a different text that I typed on my phone, so it was lacking crucial points), and no one posted anything amounting to a rebuttal ever since. Please point me to a proper rebuttal or present one yourself.
>an exchange under KYC is the same as the entirety of Bitcoin being under KYC
Xavier Phillips
>exchanges are the same as transactions on the network
Lucas Martin
EVERYDAY I'M SHUFFLING >Noooo!!! MY COIN WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRR >I'M TRYING TO SCALE BITCOIN YOU BIG DUMMY LN WILL NEVER WORK SHHHRRRRRRRRRLLLP >HEEEEEEELLLLP WHIRRRRRR NOOOOOOOO [Braps] [Walks away]
Camden Clark
Such low effort.
Sebastian Gomez
i ask that in every coins telegram group to all the pajeets that want money. we seriously need to clean out the bootlickers across crypto who only want money. I suggest getting rid of fiat pairings soon and keep crypto as pure coins.
Jose Rodriguez
>prove bullshit wrong >fail to comprehend >"not rebutted"
Charles Davis
try to comprehend context better - he was talking about the blockchain shills