Inflation and cheap loans are everything that's wrong with our economy

usury is everything wrong with the economy

Sensible rates != usury

In fact, rates shouldn't even be controlled by central entities. If you don't like the rates don't take loans, nobody is forcing you to.

it was related to the cheap loans part

As long as the market sets the rate of inflation, theres nothing wrong with it. otherwise the rate central bank kikes set will always be too much or too little.

They're intertwined. With inflation everybody needs loans and banks have freshly-printed fiat to loan out. Without inflation there's less need for loans and rates are higher because banks need to be more careful with whom they give credit to.

>As long as the market sets the rate of inflation
What did he mean by this?

Don't worry friend, when the bubble goes pop the weak will be culled and the monopolies by the (((regulated))) banks will be burnt to the ground.

I don't like that my life saving may get eradicated when that happens. And if I put everything into assets now the bubble will keep going for the next 50 years just to spite me.

>Without inflation there's less need for loans
umm no. here in poorland noone can afford an house or a car without taking loans. ffs everyone now buy iphone with a 20+ financial plan

>Without inflation there's less need for loans and rates are higher because banks need to be more careful with whom they give credit to.
umm no? since the loans already use inflaction+interest to calculate the rate

I have a surprise for you: taking loans doesn't give you more net money. if inflation wasn't a thing and consequently loans were more expensive the prices of houses and commodities would decrease accordingly to match consumer purchasing power. But have fun taking loans.

>the banks aren't the ones profiting from inflation
I guess it's not like the big bankers are the ones running the fed or anything. Not like all our income tax goes to paying the interest on the funny money they loaned to the government. Money that cost them nothing to make. I guess you're right and they're not gaining from this in any way.

??????????????????????????
do u think people buy houses or cars with cash? or that without inflation joe average can save 300k euros to buy his house? i'm honestly confused about what are u trying to say

>I have a surprise for you: taking loans doesn't give you more net money
i know, but it gives more money now. to buy things like his house
also bank already integrate inflation in their loans rate

I know this isn't a popular opinion...
But if it weren't for inflation, people would be purchasing things the correct way, and wouldn't need to borrow money to live outside of their means.
The wisdom used to be, save up to buy what you want.
Saving and Borrowing are polar opposites in the financial world. I'd argue that one is a net negative to the individual, while one is a net positive.

>remove that and unsustainable unrealistic economic growth is halted
Fixed.

It was sarcasm user

If you want to buy a house you have 3 options
a) save up for it by working and living cheap, then pay with cash like you're supposed to (houses would be cheaper without the funny system we have now)
b) buy a cheaper temporary house while saving for the one you really want
c) suck it up and pay whatever rate you are offered for your loan

Saving used to be a thing but now we're overconsuming, borrowing from the future and burning through the world's resources. It's a matter of time until the bubble pops, I'd be surprised if we don't live to see it.

It's almost as if people should spend the amount they're able to spend and things should cost the amount people can pay for them. Kind of like a free economy. But that would be impossible because I've heard keynesians say so.

He's saying that the house wouldn't cost 300k fucking euros to buy if prices weren't so inflated, what's hard to understand about that?

>do u think people buy houses or cars with cash?
I bought my last car with cash. Was it a flashy top of the line roadster? No. It's a good car, and I paid a fair price for it.

In my personal opinion, if people would stop trying to live outside of their means, and focus on increasing their revenue and reducing their costs so they can save money, a lot of the things we THINK we need loads for would be attainable for the average person in a matter of a few years worth of saving up.

I'm honestly astonished how infrequently people come at this problem from my angle, so it's refreshing to see a like mind.

I have never, NEVER heard a reasonable argument for why deflation is just as bad as inflation. Obviously ideally the purchasing power of currency would be static, but deflation would always be preferred over inflation in my opinion.

Deflation rewards savers, punishes borrowers.
Inflation the opposite is true.
We live in inflationary times, so it's no wonder why people are inclined to borrow instead of save, thinking that saving is for suckers (which in an inflationary environment it is - literally people who borrow money are in reality stealing it from people who save money through the mechanism of inflation).

Yeah, it's amazing that it's the contrarian opinion. It should be the pro-consumer system but people still vehemently defend what we have now.

Inflation really doesn't do anything if it's spread evenly, the net value of the currency remains the same. If inflation not spread evenly, it will just act as a capital tax and redistribute people's value into random things which might help the economy or might not. More likely not. And if you wanna punish savers, just tax wealth directly. Surely it's better to not add unnecessary interference to the monetary system when it's unstable enough on its own?

There's some arguments against inflation, most of which are complete bogus, some of which seem reasonable. But there's also no historic conclusive proof that I'm aware of that would show that deflation can't work or is bad. The upsides don't seem to justify the wealth redistribution circus we have now.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Disadvantages

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What a round about way of saying jews.

>Spread inflation evenly
Not possible. Inflation happens because supply of a currency increases, but this happens over time. The first hands on new money (usually in the form of loans) get the full benefit of the current purchasing power of that currency. As the market adjusts, people subsequently down the line get less and less purchasing power out of the new money until an equilibrium is achieved. Indeed, those who can afford to take loans, and those closest to the creation of new supply (banks), are the wealthiest, just as those who are hurt the most are often the poorest.

>if you wanna punish savers
It's just a natural consequence of inflation, just like people who borrow money would be hurt by deflation. Consequently, you'll noticed that deflation gets touted as the worst thing that could possibly happen, and this is because the prevalence of borrowing in our society is so deeply entangled, that if we ever actually did experience significant deflation, our society would be devastated because so many people would owe so much more value than their loans were initially worth when they took them. Likely, things would collapse, but not quite as surely as in the event of hyper-inflation.

>deflation - can't work or bad?
The thing about this is, with inflation there is a theoretical limit to how far it can go, which is when the money is worth nothing and is no longer accepted in exchange for anything. With deflation on the other hand, theoretically there is no limit on how far it could go. This is what confuses most people. But if you think about it logically, there will be a limit to how expensive a circulating currency can get based on peoples need to exchange it for goods and services. And deflation can be solved without using inflation to do it by issuing smaller denominations of currency much like how crypto currencies work by fracturing into multiple decimals. This is similar to inflation in a way, but more like your idea of inflation spread evenly.

tfw im a BBA holder and I don't fully understand what's happening in this thread, but even if I did there would be no hope in fixing it anyway

>The thing about this is, with inflation there is a theoretical limit to how far it can go, which is when the money is worth nothing and is no longer accepted in exchange for anything. With deflation on the other hand, theoretically there is no limit on how far it could go
I think this sums it up well. Deflation is blamed because it slows things down, but in truth it only puts them at their natural rate instead of the shitfest where everybody spends recklessly. Sure inflation seems to work better but like you said there's a hard limit where it comes to an end because the economy grows faster than the real value in the world. Then you'll be thankful for not having used the system that everybody knew was unsustainable and bound to crash. Sure it's fun for a while but if it implodes on your watch you'll notice you're left holding absolutely nothing of value since surprisingly the IOUs printed didn't represent real value after all like a limited resource would have. Why aren't we content with letting things be the way they are instead?

>there will be a limit to how expensive a circulating currency can get based on peoples need to exchange it for goods and services
Yeah, it will balance itself out. Even all the intra-government currency problems could be solved if our currency was global.

Now there's another set of criticism against a world currency, but again I don't see them outweighing the positives. The real problem is that the system becomes extremely unrealistic to achieve, we'd need currency to be both deflationary and global. It would remove most of the currency-caused problems of the system but there's almost no way everybody would agree on something like it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_currency#Difficulties

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It's ok, we don't really understand either. Nobody understands economics. But at least deflation would be much less rigged and easier to understand.

Daily reminder the industrial revolution in USA happened under a deflationary gold standard

Daily reminder the first country to eliminate their central bank and allow free market banking will have the highest living standards on earth within 5 years.

Massive high paying service sector jobs with dominate this country's economy to consume the goods the rest of the world has to produce for it.

The workweek would shrink to 2-3 days a week and people would retire much earlier. This will also lead to more jobs becoming available.

Everyone would have high saving rates. Houses would be inexpensive. Debt would be strongly discouraged economically.

Massive automation would take place as the cost of capital goods would be extremely cheap. This will lead to massive levels of technological innovation.

It would be extremely easy for the average person to start a business due to the cheap cost of capital goods.

Daily reminder actual free markets have prices falling all the time instead is going up.

Daily reminder America never had a system of free market banking for most of it's history. There were only patches of American history with free market banking. The panics that happened during the 1800s were due to government intervention in the banking sector. Sweden had the longest most successful period of free banking and that's what made them really rich.

Daily reminder the longest period of (relatively)free banking in America coincided with the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION where wages rose and prices fell.

Daily reminder central banks are the very reason the economy is a pile of shit and our generation is so fucked.

Basically what I'm saying is if we had a free market, the entire fucking country would be disneyland or universal studios and people would barely have to work.

Why would you NOT support this unless you were a shill that hated white people?

Indeed user, indeed. But surely it would have happened even better if inflation had been present, right?

Inflation would have made it much worse.
Imagine if the price of capital goods went UP instead of down during the industrial revolution.
there would be no industrial revolution

whoever made OP's image is a literal mong.
they couldn't even figure out how to inspect element, instead they did a shitty photoshop job and used the wrong white/tan color to fill it in.

what is free market banking

Japan is pretty much deflationary right now to my understanding, albeit not freely banked, quite the opposite. They're working their asses off and progressing slower than China. But on the other hand I expect they'll be much better off when the rest of us get royally fucked.

No central bank, no monopoly on money creation

>Japan is pretty much deflationary right now to my understanding
No they're not, stupid.

Are you sure? I've not read much on Japan but there seem to be sources claiming it's still going on reuters.com/article/us-japan-economy-deflation/japan-may-declare-end-to-deflation-before-2019-tax-hike-sources-idUSKBN1CU0AO

>Why aren't we content with letting things be the way they are instead?
Inflation is borrowing wealth from the future. Some form of inflation needs to happen to currency as the natural value of wealth it represents increases, I recommended fractured denominations as a way to fairly apply this. The answer to your question is because we want quicker growth and aren't willing to wait for it to naturally occur along with the natural growth of the wealth of a nation.

Japan has one of the largest debts in the world thanks to their central bank inflating the money supply.

>Some form of inflation needs to happen

Yeah, I'm aware of their happening. I'm certainly not trying to say Japan's current state is caused by deflation, it's not an argument against deflation. But as long as every other country still enjoys the temporary "benefits" of inflation the Japanese deflation might still be a detriment to them.

>Some form of inflation needs to happen to currency as the natural value of wealth it represents increases, I recommended fractured denominations as a way to fairly apply this
Well, you answered the problem yourself already. That's the natural way for things to evolve.

They need massive debt cancellation.

Just like every other country, kek

deflation actually results in HIGHER levels of economic growth than inflation

the gilded age in the USA had the highest levels of real economic growth year after year than we have EVER had in the USA

just keep in mind that technological advancements can make direct comparisons hard

What I mean is, the supply of money must be sufficient enough for exchange to happen.
If there are only 10 dollars that cannot be split, and 100 people, they'll be better off bartering because there isn't enough money to allow all the people to use it. Something like that is all I meant.
This is also the most common argument (((they))) will use for why inflation is a good thing.

actual living standards for the working class increased at a much higher rate during that time than we have now

living standards are actually going DOWN now

Most certainly. There's a steady decline on median purchasing power going on despite the constant technologic advances. Is it all because of the rigged system? I wouldn't be surprised

I can believe this because the average person isn't having their purchasing power literally stolen from them through inflation...

But I'd like to understand how that mechanism would work. Inflation can temporarily spur growth in the short term. The only way I can see Deflation spurring growth would be over a longer period of time. Can you help me understand how this mechanism works better?

>This is also the most common argument (((they))) will use for why inflation is a good thing.
It's hilarious how "economists" can claim this with a straight face

>freeze credit and deflate currency
Fan fucking tastic idea user, can’t wait for the great depression x10 with that strategy

Read the thread nigger, great depression v2 is coming either way.

Economics is not really that hard to understand, even for the laymen. Part of the game these days is to over complicate it so you can get away with saying shit like that.

Unfortunately you're both correct.

However, the problem has been caused by, and is exasperated by debt accumulation. The credit system is a joke, and it's part of the problem. But dismantling a lot of this stuff is going to cause a lot of pain.

then we wouldn't have a desire economy and in that timeline economy would shrink by 50% overnight

>Inflation
Cause of centalized printing money
>cheap loans
Cause of government restrictions

Solution: Crypto dezentralized hard limit coins and a free market without regulations.