Evidence Supporting A Vegan Diet

Please don't get me started on that article. It's 2 in the morning and I don't feel like writing an essay for someone who refuses to look at the information that shows their link to be irrelevant.

youtube.com/watch?v=OVxBBuz7TUI

None of the moral arguments hold weight. This isn't the place to go through them but anyone with the capacity to think critically can work this out.

The environmental arguments largely rely on falsely assuming the rest of the world is as retarded as the USA in raising an inefficient animal on fucking desert or on prime farmland. Sheep on, say, the Scottish or Welsh highlands are nowhere near as wasteful as the land is worthless for much else and the animal more efficient than beef cattle. That doesn't even begin to touch on seafood, fish and chicken either (eggs are top tier and produced properly, rather than in batter, chicken will provide you with shit like capons).

Even if they did if we're going for maximum efficiency in land usage most vegan diets are actually pretty wasteful since they go for taste and variety as much as anything else (not to mention the need for mass production of certain supplements). Anything shipped in from abroad will be an environmental issue too and you better believe it's more difficult to provide a fully vegan diet in some countries.

Now assuming you mean health benefits then yes there are some but comparing a sane diet including meat to a sane vegan diet rather than to the average fatfuck diet will show you it isn't huge. Most value enjoyment in life over a few years at the shit-end of it anyway, assuming you are lucky enough not to die of any other random chance (disease, accident, violence etc). Same reason people binge drink.

Basically most arguments come down to mild benefits or smugness.

I like dairy. Sure, there's better things to eat but it's not that bad for you.

Are you having computer issues where you see something completely different from what everyone else sees? All the peer reviewed studies are linked on that pastebin because the list is too long to post here you fucking moron.

I just linked the evidence showing it is extremely fucking bad for you......

Holy shit...... I'm going to bed.

Meat eating as a catalyst for evolution of the human brain is pretty well known user. One Veeky Forumsfag in the modern day hardly disproves that.

As for whether or not it's necessary now for a functioning brain probably not but it was originally.

Of course what is natural is not always what is good. Drinking cow milk is 'unnatural' means shit all when humans do many, many things that are 'unnatural' of which veganism is but one.

You type like someone from tumblr. This is not a surprise.

I don't care. I drink liquor and smoke the occasional cigar. I like it, I'm going to do it. Life is fucking short and not worth being a faggot over. I don't consume a ton of dairy. I'm sorry I don't conform to your vegan religion.

Which you've mixed in with a bunch of YouTube videos.

Like I said, Pastebin isn't a peer reviewed journal. My criticism is valid: peer review tends to notice and correct things like cherry picking your sources, as you have.

Like I said, your opinion "backed up" by a bunch of articles (and YouTube videos) that you've cherry picked to support your pre-supposed position isn't "evidence". It's "opinion".

>All the peer reviewed studies are linked on that pastebin because the list is too long to post here you fucking moron.

user you can cherrypick a study to prove almost everything is carcinogenic in excess or if produced in a poor way or is simply 'linked' to poor health. Lies, damn lies and statistics and all that.

Hell half of those links focus only on the extremes of battery farming or similar. And a good number of the health studies are sticking vegans against the average diet which merely proves those who carefully watch what they eat and avoid overly processed foods (which are largely meat-based) are healthier.

Again comparing two reasonable diets, one vegan and one not, will show you the benefits are fairly minimal. They're there but again most people are not giving up drink for minimal benefits, why do it with meat?

There's no such things as a "vegan diet" so all of the studies are bullshit to begin with. If I eat rice, sugar and oil exclusively every day, that's a vegan diet and yet it will be tremendously unhealthy compared to a balanced omnivorous diet. The whole premise of "veganism" as a completely separate category of diet is retarded since the difference between a 95% vegan diet and a 100% vegan diet is actually no more than 5%. My diet is 90 - 95% vegan by calories and yet veganfags will call me an omnivore and unhealthy and immoral because I eat some fish and cheese a couple times a week.

>the doctor told me I need to eat more carrots.

>I had to remind him I was human

Also the vegan who made that is letting her child get nutritional deficiencies just to feed her ego.

>Why aren't you vegan?

beause i like meat and i like eggs and i like milk

so go fuck yourself because your twiggy vegan gf will snap in half before you have the opportunity

hey you're pretty retarded user idc if you're vegan or not u should still be eating vegetables you pretentious motherfucker

no your just fucking self-righteous. your nose so high in the air at us meat-eating plebs because you think you found some "credible" info to justify your strange eating habits. stop fishing for admission of guilt from us, because you wont get it, hippie fuck.

I was making fun of the OP image you stupid fuck.

>implying i read the text on an image posted by a vegan OP
>especially when i'm drunk

u expect too much of me

s'alright m8

just started drinking an hour ago myself desu

need sum meat in here lads

Careful OP.

There are big pharma endorsors and trolls in this very thread so you won't get far.

Your post looks so jaaring amongst all these fast food posts don't you think?

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lol veganfag always gets the newfags

I'M WORKING ON IT.
Getting the right substitute of salt-free butter in my baking (icings, custards) is difficult.

Although it doesn't have hormones, coconut oil has a worse fat profile than butter. They don't sale aquafaba in the store either so it's not on-hand often for the egg white replacement in meringues.

I want to be vegan but I can't seem to give up eggs and cheeses for selfish reasons

would be gorgous if it wasn`t for that baguette. So many Sandwiches are ruined by the bread to me.

I'm not vegan in the same way I'm not gay or black. I just had the rotten luck of being born normal.

I'm not a vegan because I'm not a faggot. Like you are op.

Evidence that people can live a healthy life with a vegan diet without supplements can be found at blank.org

There are plenty of links to peer reviewed sources you double nigger

I'm not a vegan because it's a weird white supremacist moralistic ideology. Eating a mostly plant based diet is good for the body and good on the environment. assuming you have a moral superiority due to the arbitrary and impossible for a lot of people restrictions on your diet is ignorant at best and maliciously culturally imperialistic.
I hunt because in my country deer are an introduced pest and it feeds me and helps the environment. how could this possibly be morally wrong?

Because I'm not retarded

Good, maybe you'll leave. Nothing you post will convince anyone of anything. Other than your own self righteousness.

I am vegan because I want to reduce suffering on this god forsaken planet.
Nothing should be murdered because I'm hungry.
Meat eaters get mondo offended by anyone threatening their views, but I have converted a few people now and it feelsgood.

>vegans who have to take pills if they don't want to die think their eating disorder is healthy

Copypasta saved.

Because I'm not a fag

I'll continue eating meat just like the longest lived populations in the world.

Because I can eat anything I want and so can other people. I don't give a shit about what others eat and you shouldn't either. You won't be changing their minds by antagonizing them like a Muslim in Germany.

>especially when i'm drunk

That's no excuse on Veeky Forums faggot. Everyone here is either drunk, a Scottish shitposter (i.e. a drunk), a tumblr-vegan or a housewise.

Or, I suppose, a Filipino housewife with poor kitchen hygiene.

I fear for the day some mod finally tried to enforce 'post quality' on this most holy of boards.

fuck off

>Nothing should be murdered because I'm hungry.

Do you know how many animals die as a direct result of industrial farming techniques?

Do you know how many die indirectly?

Hell depending how you want to define murder a significant number of vegas is going to reduce the number of animals that even get a chance at life. Properly farmed animals have shit pretty good all considered.

Out of interest also what's your position on abortion? This might seem irrelevant but if we're asserting the right of fucking fish and poultry to survive it's a relevant question along with the standard 'where do you cut the line?'. Do we go down to the insect level? If so why stop there. If not then what's your minimum definition for something to have a life to be ended (i.e. 'murdered').

>how could this possibly be morally wrong?

Many modern vegan theories rely on treating animals as moral equals. The famous 'speciesism' bullshit goes along these lines.

Do note that they are given SOME of the same moral rights as us without any of the same moral duties. Of course even the moral rights they're given are arbitrary and only extend as far as not being eaten instead of, say, a moral right to housing, voting, protection and so on.

A lot of this half-baked ideology rests on comparisons with the mentally disabled or children but the former actually get the right to vote in most countries and both are given certain rights in terms of housing, access to land and so on.

And as that other user says ask a vegan to explain their ideologie's compatibility with abortion. You wouldn't believe the meltdowns it causes.

>Nothing should be murdered because I'm hungry.
Why do all the other animals get to have all the fun?

>Hell half of those links focus only on the extremes of battery farming or similar. And a good number of the health studies are sticking vegans against the average diet which merely proves those who carefully watch what they eat and avoid overly processed foods (which are largely meat-based) are healthier.

This. I'd love to see a comparison of a vegan diet against an actual balanced, healthy omnivorous diet, because when it's just against 'average' you're lumping us in with all the drooling, McDonalds-twice-a-day retards.

Spot on user.

Basically it comes down to this:

A tiger is my moral 'equal' despite not having the moral or intellectual capabilities I posses. Any argument claiming we give certain rights to the mentally disabled but not to, say, tigers fails to note that even the mentally disabled are smarter than they are AND that we don't give full rights to those so affected (seriously we don't give them full rights in terms of possession of dangerous substances/weapons, legal rights/duties, CC licenses etc).

And that doesn't even begin to touch on the practical issues of favouring one's own species or the utilitarian consequences of treating retarded kids like cattle. Even if you can prove we're favouring our own species unfairly there's any number of arguments for such a bias that form part of a legitimate philosophy.

Again: vegan moral/ethical theories are basically the kiddie-tier shit of shallow philosophy. Play the thought experiment of you being trapped in a cave with a human and a cow. The only solution is starvation or eating one of your two companions. Moral vegans must choose between them equally (or indeed have a 1/3rd chance to be eaten themselves). If they say 'veganism doesn't count in extreme circumstances' then clearly animals are not morally equal.

>This. I'd love to see a comparison of a vegan diet against an actual balanced, healthy omnivorous diet, because when it's just against 'average' you're lumping us in with all the drooling, McDonalds-twice-a-day retards.

Generally a fair comparison comes out (very) mildly in favour of veganism. We're talking a few years if you're lucky and super hardcore with your vegan shit and exersise. Even then you're granting them fancy supplements and ingredients that are massively more expensive in environmental terms particularly if the entire world wants to go vegan. Guinea pigs, rabbits, shellfish, fish, goats and chicken are kept (or eaten) by third-world communities for a reason and that reason isn't fucking tasty meat.

Africans also don't hunt monkeys for fun.

pleb

the Mt Athos diet is quite clearly the peak of foodkino and it isnt vegan

Or for the tl;dr version

Humans are by dint of their very ability to consider moral vegetarianism not required to adhere to it. We are not moral equals with any animal on earth as no animal on earth has a comparable moral system (or, indeed, anything we'd recognise as a moral system at all).

The only POSSIBLE exceptions are elephants and perhaps dogs though the latter is because of a shared history of co-evolution. Even in these cases we have to push the definition of moral system to extremes.

Note also vegans shut up quickly when faced with actual criticism. Much though they'd like to think otherwise they are not some sort of super-moral humans they're just smug little hipster faggots with no ability to think for themselves. When faces with arguments outside of the standard responses their copy-pastas cannot apply and they are left helpless.

Not that bloke, but I'm a Vietnamese college student and what is this?

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Your issues probably come more from being sired by rotten old man sperm than your diet.

I couldn't live without ice cream or frozen yogurt

>in b4 lol fatty
mock me if you will, I am at peace

Too bad I'm a morally gray opportunist that happens to enjoy the taste of meat.

Hey guys, it's the OP. Sorry I haven't been able to respond to your comments. I'm juggling school and work right now so I don't have much time for this and honestly wasn't expecting so many passionate responses. I'll try to address everything by the end of the day. I apologize for the wait time.

Yes. That is called "cherry picking"

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>Moving the goal posts.

I complained of this right in my first post in and my second post in Pastebin is not a peer reviewed journal. Nobody has checked the literature to ensure the OP hasn't simply cherry picked studies which fit his already decided view. Nobody has reviewed his "evidence" to ensure the sources he use have not been superseded, criticised or retracted.

I can't say I'm surprised that vegans are so scientifically illiterate but it still depresses me.

If you need to prove that something is good t probably isn't very good

Yeah man I agree. Modern medicine is all bullshit!

Never go to a hospital, especially if your life is depending on it. Their treatments suck because they all had to be proven. Idiots.

Mods already try to enforce post quality. I've had many posts and threads deleted because they weren't 'quality' enough

vegans are ridiculous and pathetic and I have zero respect for them

Someone post a link to that article that says plants can form memories and stuff. There's other stuff out there that shows plants can feel pain too.

Because I like eating meat.

To everyone claiming it's cherry picking (even though it includes meta-analyses), please feel free to find studies proving them wrong. :)

>Moving the goalposts this hard

Double nigger

Humans are an invasive species in a lot of the world. Should we go hunting and killing humans? I may be efficient to protect the planet, but pretty much everyone thinks it's unethical. Vegans feel the same way about hunting. Personally, I don't mind subsistence hunters who live off of what they kill. You do what you got to do to survive. But most people don't NEED to hunt.

>b12 deficiency is proof that veganism is unhealthy
>elevated rates of obesity, heart disease, and cancer doesn't mean omnivore diets are unhealthy
Which is it?

>pretty well known

It actually isnt considering it isnt true

>getting mad at vegans and not the meat/dairy industries
I've eaten meat my whole life, but if you think the modern meat industry and the meat it sells are natural or healthy in anyway, you're objectively retarded.

Your idea of being trapped in a cave has absolutely nothing to do with modern day society

You are a fucking moronic nihilist fedora tipper

My opinion is that animals do have rights, but like the disabled, they don't have all the rights that an able bodied human has. As such, in your (in modern times pretty absurd) example, I would eat the cow before the human, because otherwise we're all going to die anyway. But you're missing the point. Veganism is a rejection of UNNECESSARY suffering, obviously in a situation like yours, suffering is unavoidable.

Because I'm not a fucking faggot who needs to justify his lifestyle to everyone and tell everyone that I am a fucking vegan just to get Socially Responsible And Ethical Person points.

Meat is the reward for being the dominant species of this planet.

Cows would do the same thing if it were up to them. Fuck them.

No youre just strong manly man trying to look manly in front of all the people that care

Just because most vegans are autistic faggots doesn't mean their ideology is flawed.

agriculture is a system that depends on raising plants and animals together

i spend a bit more and consume a bit less and get animal products from farming organizations that focus on sustainable agriculture and humane animal husbandy

it's better than both vegan and tortured food

No it doesn't. You're just some retard that read some Buzzfeed-tier article linked by Joe Rogan and thinks he knows the world

really? have you ever been to a farm?

>Vegans
>Actually visit a farm

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

We're talking about the same hipsters who think cycling everywhere is a valid concept user. They've never lived anywhere but the centre of a massive city.

Their ideology IS flawed, if you don't eat meat because you just don't like it, that's perfectly fine. If you don't eat meat as some form of retarded protest then you need a reality check - you're not putting a tiniest dent on meat industry.

>Veganism is a rejection of UNNECESSARY suffering

Then why don't vegans eat shellfish, particularly bivalves? There's no suffering there.

i'm not taking someone seriously who says "cow's milk is only for calves"

why are you eating nuts, beans, or seeds since they're made to grow new plants? lol!!!

hmm good point

plant food is most certainly NOT vegan

You've both admitted a cow has less rights than a human. Therefore discrimination against them is not speciesist. Clearly you rate them as morally inferior to humans on some level.

Why, then, deny a cow a happy life on a farm before a short and humane execution?

I am, of course, not advocating amercian style mass 'industrial' farming but you must explain to me why we can't have ethical food production and a sane diet.

Now you can claim ethical farming is unnecessary suffering but that marks you as someone who has never been on a 'proper' farm. Your average '''free range''' chicken, for example, leads a pampered lifestyle in which they do whatever they want, lay eggs and maybe are culled before old age takes them. How is that worse than never living at all? Remember that a world-wide vegan movement means all farm animals no longer have the luxury of domestication.

Do you seriously think domestication is a one-way street? In purely evolutionary terms domesticated animals (cows, chicken, sheep) are massively successful while horses have lost out due to industrial advances.

Hell you work for a pitiful wage until old age while the rich benefit. You're basically a 'free range' human who is happily ignorant of his true condition.

Finally you've dodged the harder questions.

Is it fair to keep animals as pets? What about keeping them out of 'your' land? Surely this is, to a degree, unnecessary suffering. It might be less than the 'suffering' of death and consumption but you are still enforcing it. Once you open up your house and garden to all animals maybe we can talk about unnecessary suffering.

Plants 'takes' land from animals and hurts a great many smaller animals during the harvesting process not to mention preventing them from eating the crops.

It's only degrees of 'harm' or 'suffering'. If we're going to start treating animals as moral equals why is it fine to force them off their lands to grow your shitty beans or build your massive apartments? This is still 'suffering' just not 'murder'.

Vegans have never lived with the reality of farming. Nobody who has thinks animals are even mildly comparable to humans.

Anyone who has been near shellfish or poultry will tell you they are fucking dumb and will happily love the 'farmed' life.

Again lets compare, say, dogs to humans. You'd surely give a human the right to choose to live or not if in extreme pain (lets say due to cancer).

Would you allow a dog to choose? A dog would ALWAYS choose life no matter how short and painful.

Animals are fucking dumb in comparison to humans. Treated ethically (this is key) they actually benefit from being farmed or kept as pets. In the UK, for example, there is a significant argument for eating horses to keep them treated well in later life rather than the current situation in which they are abandoned.

>you've both admitted a cow has less rights than a human

No, I didn't. You're just a dumb fucking retadr mincing words

>humane execution

>your average free range chicken leads a pampered lifestyle

That's a case by case example

You're a fucking moron that can't read

*retard

inb4 you sperg out over absolutely nothing

It still takes far less than animal agriculture as you are not just taking land for that but also land to feed them with the food they are provided

How fucking dense are you that you can't understand such a simple concept? Is pretending to be as oblivious as possible some form of intellectual argument?

So you believe a cow has the same rights as a human?

Should cows vote?

>Veganism is a rejection of UNNECESSARY suffering, obviously in a situation like yours, suffering is unavoidable.

So why is milking a cow or eating the eggs of a chicken 'unnecessary suffering'? By all accounts cows and chicken kept for such purposes lead a (comparatively) luxurious life and, as any farmer will tell you, don't care shit about their milk/eggs. Now you can, of course, claim eggs are 'potential chickens' or milk is 'baby cow food' but I'll easily point to abortion and ask you to explain that inconsistency.

Compare this to cows and chicken left to run free without human intervention. Unless you intend to keep sanctuaries with cows and chicken at the same population levels as now you've surely caused unnecessary suffering.