ITT: Vegans v. Vegetarians

>Muslims
>Vegetarians

You wot.

the reason i went vegan is because im a really compassionate person not just because im vegan, i do a whole load of other things that are "compassionate" that dont even involve being vegan. im vegan cause i dont want to kill anything for a meal, why is that so hard to grasp. and that is what i said in my post. i dont see your point here and it seems like youre projecting. i didnt even say to stop eating animal products completely just to reduce your intake

Lets be honest here, the whole thread was made to shit on each other. Of course someone was going to bring up religion and its weird restrictions on food.

you get it. I couldn't help myself.

I don't understand religion, was raised with none and I don't want to talk about it not anonymously. it's fine if it works for you, but it just seems self satisfying to me.

lets talk cooking here. vegans dont wear wool, which I dont understand the rationalization for. doesnt shearing sheep in the spring help them with temperature regulation? or am I anthropomorphizing (whatever the word is)?

ive never had a desire to own wool and sheeps grow it so clearly theyre meant to have it not me. if you live in a cold place with no store and you have to kill them to stay warm go nuts. ive never looked into the cruelty the wool industry may have but i doubt theres any ethics

i'm a vegetarian but with mostly radical vegan ethics.

i don't think it's unethical to eat eggs or honey assuming the chickens and bees aren't being abused or exploited because they produce these regardless. there are arguments that the honey industry is actually beneficial to bee populations, which in turn helps entire ecosystems.

i do think dairy is unethical and also just nonsensical, but i have a severe intolerance to nuts which eliminates a huge chunk of convenient protein options relied upon by veg*ns. i basically live off of bananas, yogurt, and lattes because balancing school and work doesn't give me a lot of time to prepare meals. i do ONLY buy organic dairy (as much for health reasons as ethical reasons) and i vet the companies i buy from - usually i stick to organic valley products because they're a co-op with super strict standards about how the animals are treated. i also don't have lactose intolerance - i have super nordic ancestry so dairy actually soothes my stomach. i've tried full-blown veganism before and did okay, but i've dealt with disordered eating in the past and feel that eliminating too many food groups fosters negative mentalities about food.

sorry about buzzfeed if that triggers you, but they do use a lot of photos.
buzzfeed.com/robstott/this-woolly-sheep-got-a-fabulous-makeover-and-it-broke-a-wor?utm_term=.kwgYaJJgr#.xiYkZddo9

>assuming chickens and bees have any understanding of abuse or exploitation.

you realize that animals are sentient, right? that's kind of one of the reasons people opt for vegetarianism

you realize bees and chickens don't perceive the world the way humans do, right?

jesus christ, i wonder why they dont have a natural mechanism such as shedding or if that is normal for every wild sheep that isnt sheard. i wouldnt have a problem if small scale things like this but yeah after i just did some research on the mass production of wool theyre treated like shit as usual so i can obstain

bees and bugs are a different subject but chickens, like most animals have a will and drive to live and pain receptors and feelings. just dont eat shit that screams

so spend "top dollar" on ethical wool. it isn't inherently mean to the animal, many producers value the wellbeing of the animal and they deserve to be rewarded in my view. you pretty much have to research everything you buy these days if you want it to meet your ethical standards, and you will often have to compromise.

i live in texas dude, it is hot and humid 24/7. i have never had a desire to buy anything thicker than a normal cheap jacket or sweatshirt.

are you a fucking moron? do you think veg*ns are advocating that animals get paid, have access to housing, get to vote, etc? nobody is suggesting they be treated as humans do.

but to suggest that they aren't consciously aware of the physical pain resulting from debeaking, sores, injuries from other birds? or wading around in their own shit and the rotting, infected carcasses of other birds? that just makes you autistic.

even if your argument hadn't been scientifically refuted, which it has, there is literally no justification that can be made for treating life this way. human beings do not value other life forms, and even if that isn't an ethical issue for you, it is an issue that has very real and very negative environmental consequences.

i dont get why people honestly pay for meat, especially pork or chickens. they all have sepsis and full blown infections. ethics aside US chicken producers cool them in cooling vats of water where they soak up a mixture of water and feces to gain more water weight so they can be sold for more. literally paying for shit infested meat. but then theres always that asshole with the expendable income that chimes in with the "well i get my chicken from TOP! sources and i know its quality"

i don't know about the rest of the world, but in america we're obsessed with eating disgusting shit. even this board - for COOKING - is devoted to it. nobody cares where their food comes from or what it's made of anymore.

im just as guilty with eating processed shit, its the american way of course. just today i had half a bag of takis and a rice milk chocolate bar, but paying for meat infected with sepsis, why??

If it isn't harmful, I don't see the problem. It certainly doesn't taste like shit infested meat, unless I'm just used to the taste of shit. Either way, no biggie.

lightweight wool can actually cool you off. I wear wool socks year round, though it's only been around 90 here the last coupld weeks, which is a bit warmer than usual.

>state your case why you're better than the other.

Vegans have more disposable cash than regular vegetarians.
Both dont give a fuck about cheap plentiful food for the poor.
A chickens feelings matter more than keeping people fed.

They are the same people who will complain about GMOs.

Let the poor suffer more than the chicken.

Vegetarian here-- Milk products, eggs, and (of course) honey can all, in theory, be obtained in an ethical manner. I don't buy from places that don't do things ethically, so I don't have any reason to restrict my diet further. Also, not strictly on-topic, but I eat shellfish because they have no central nervous system or pain receptors and therefor no consciousness or experience of suffering.

well its harmful for your health, really is isnt just vegan psuedo science saying. people die from ecoli and other food borne illness and its just shit for your health. plus when was the last time you had chicken with no seasoning just totally plain? i doubt it would taste good.

youre a fucking moron that doesnt know what autism is.

youre raising up a strawman, at least with me. what you said is true and I wasn't trying to refute that point. there are plenty of sources of humanely raised chicken.

>human beings do not value other life forms
would that include you, or are you not a human being? are you a chimpanzee that has been trained to use a keyboard? I would love to speak with you, i know sign language.

they pump the animals so full of antibiotics, nobody is going to get sick from eating it. instead you get to deal with all the health issues stemming from overloading your system with antibiotics

>ecoli

You really shouldnt bring up Ecoli, because it and botulism are largely pathogens found in greens. Its not one of the big meat borne pathogens.

we could end world hunger if we took the grain being fed to livestock and gave it to humans!! also since when have rice and beans and potatoes been expensive. yes there are some vegans who eat expensive specialty foods and only drink 3 dollar bottles of water but it isnt every vegan. and im pro gmo as the land required for organic produce is higher than gmo produce and organic foods can only be made using animal fertilizer which isnt necessarily vegan. there are tons of people who 'only eat turkey and lean meats' that care sooo much more about GMOs

haha you realize e. coli lives naturally in your intestines and you would slowly die from malnutrition without it, right? though, not all e. coli strains are pathogenic.

youtube.com/watch?v=BBLlBIGvRM8
youtube.com/watch?v=aA4I-WRu_s0

if you have the time watch these videos on the points you discussed, both of which bring up credible sources and proven scientific studies. dont be so ignorant, veganism has officially been named the worlds most sustainable diet.

Why would I eat plain food?

>people die from ecoli

People without meat thermometers, presumably.

also pic related.

exactly. chicken doesnt taste good, the seasoning you put on it does. you just need parsley and garlic to cover up the poo poo platter you made for dinner. however unless you're a picky eater fruits and vegetables and beans and grains taste good plain, if anything with salt

Nice red herring
What exactly does that have to do with the fact that deadly Ecoli is largely a green born pathogen, and that you were retarded for bringing it up?

Using moral superiority to justify stuffing your face is insane. Vegans are just an evolution of vegetarians that really want you to bask in their self righteousness.

Spare me the arguments of abused and exploited animals. You don't give a shit about them or the abused exploited people on this planet.
>don't eat honey cuz bees r abused and called names
So sick of people thinking they have to ride out on a crusade every time someone or something is victimized.
Considering the animals that kill us hardly do it for a regular meal, do you suppose the lion wants to make sure he doesn't exploit the bushman and his buddies before he mauls them for ignorantly entering his domain?

Tldr: you really want to be in touch and compassionate with living things? Let them eat you.

What sort of health issues stem from antibiotics?
Oh thats right, literally nothing.

Antibiotic resistance in viruses is a bad side effect from antibiotic use, but you dont have health issues from it.

This thread is full of conjecture. Its awful

>we could end world hunger if we took the grain being fed to livestock and gave it to humans!!

Except for the feed is not fit for human consumption.

>also since when have rice and beans and potatoes been expensive.
They arent, but they also arent a balanced healthy diet on their own.
Starch starch starch, with beans giving you less protein than a small amount of meat.

How is that healthy?

the guy youre replying too didnt originally bring it up also the ecoli that covers greens is usually due to run off from the feces your meat is living in. the feces problem is so bad that theyve created designated lakes just to store your foods shit, which runs off into vegetable farms and unlike meat vegetables are pretty much an essential food needed for life, so once again your diet causes another pitfall and again and again is being proven unsustainable.

I didn't follow the dialogue exchange. i'm drunk and saw people shitposting about e. coli and just assumed it was people thinking all bacteria = bad.

a cow or pig or chicken or turkey is never going to attempt to eat me, by your logic why should i eat them. we should be farming lions and cougars instead since they want to eat us! also yes youre so right, im vegan and avoid pretty much all mainstream foods because my ego, not because i dont see the point in making an animal live in its own shit. its waaaaay too extreme to eat beans and vegetables instead and im a crazy self righteous radical for doing so. how fat are you just curious?

would it change anything if you knew your local meat were treated humanely?

The solution is to reduce the black population not become depressesed vegans

you take the land already making those grains, mature them a bit more and you have wheat corn and soy, perfectly fit for human consumption. also im sorry youre a fatkins supporter but vegans are the only dietary group within a healthy bmi and we evolved larger brains due to cooked starches such as potatoes. before you go "nuuuh!! it was meat" link me something other than a time or huffpost article, more like a scientfiy jounral or study.

Funny, because the last large Ecoli outbreak came from mexicans shitting in the fields due to not having proper facilities.
Thats right, they traced it back to the actual field.

This isnt the 50s, our produce isnt being grown in the wild west.
You are stupid if you believe that.

Hippies
>can store rotting piles of matter in their yards no questions asked
>farmers storing manure for fertilizer to increase the efficacy and health of the top soil is evil and unsustainable and just so bad for the environment

The more large scale manipulation of matter and energy the more energy is released as it transitions and decays to other states. You want a planet of humans? You're going to have to feed them.

How many people would you like to let starve to death so you can say you're well off enough that you don't have to rely on economies of scale like most of the human race.

>Tldr: sustainability is a buzzword for leftist double standard bearing fucktards

>more like a scientfiy jounral or study.

I would like to see a scientific journal that says evolution of a larger brain can take place because of a fad that is only 70 years old.

That is not how evolution works

nbcnews.com/business/business-news/poultry-workers-denied-bathroom-breaks-wear-diapers-oxfam-report-n572806

nice isolated incident, its a well known fact seepage from slaughterhouses runs off into near by produce farms. youre only proving my point by saying produce isnt in the wild west. its grown in structured plants cramped tight for maximum efficiency and often tend to be near..... slaughterhouses! who would have guessed.

Backyard hens are only acceptable if they're rescued though. If you've ever seen a hatchery or understand how they're shipped to the feed store or wherever you're buying them from, you know what I mean.
youtube.com/watch?v=u0if_wWDeig

I used to think backyard hens were fine and dandy too until I got a job selling chicks from these hatcheries... They just toss 'em in a box with some extras they call "packing peanuts" because they know some will die through shipment. It's disgusting. Then the people selling you the chicks are probably farmers who have no problem abusing them. The ones I worked with though it was casual humor to take chicks to the back and snap their necks if they were being difficult.

Its not about being an isolated incident. Its about the fact that ecoli outbreaks altogether are pretty rare, and we have the technology to trace and control the outbreaks. These companies lose a lot of money every time it happens.

Yet you think that there is some "well known fact" of an inherently dangerous problem that companies just sit and ignore. Oh how will those poor companies ever figure it out!
They can trace things back to a specific field, but we cant figure out a well known fact!

No, its a fucking fairy tale you tell yourself.

>implying blacks are less desirable than red-dots

we have to do something about these goddamn indians.

Difference between us and other animals is we petty much never have to worry about being eaten.
At least spending more money on an implied premium earns your place on the >saving the world wall. It's good you can care and act on animals living in such poor conditions by not buying products from an established market that goes back to the dawn of civilization.
Domesticated animals are the result of many generations being bred and raised around or by humans. We don't domesticated the predators because they're too smart, dangerous, and not nearly in the supply of the more timid animals.
Tldr being a vegan is only a fad. Literally no reason to be one other than to use it as a banner for yourself.
Ps 6'4 200 carnivorous masterrace

Veganism is superior for health, for the animals, for the environment, for taste, for fucking everything.

This isn't a debate. This is bait.

And lol @ pseudoscience. Yeah okay. Coming from the guy who thinks dairy and eggs are healthy.

theradicalvegan.tumblr.com

Nigga you kill plants for meals.

Nigga, this is bait.

White is the only right

Don't apologize to this dickhead. Defensive meat eaters are scum and should be treated that way. Vegans who apologize to this sort do nothing but harm to the animals.

oh really? i actually didnt know that thank you. sorry i sound sarcastic im not trying to be. god thats awful i would hate to see that. whats with psychopaths and getting jobs handling animals. did you ever chew them out on what fucking idiots they were being? i remember being in 2nd grade and for easter they brought us baby chicks to look at and then i found out they ended up in a dumpster afterwards and i cried for daaaays and told everyone about it. i was a little kid but god forbid if i knew about industry cruelty back then my life would have been over

Google "mulesing", Merino wool, wool transport, and of course they slaughter the animals too.

Ignoring our evolutionary path following fire has adapted us to benefit. Your body doesn't know that it's an animal product. We humans are the result of eating and being eaten by other animals. To say that the last few decades all we have to do is munch on plant matter, which we can't digest by the way (cellulose), to live longer because that's what we're supposed to do is insane

romans were vegan and so are the okinawa, two well known civilization are predominantly vegan. veganism is even expressed in the bible. the only reason its being seen as a fad is because fad dieters think it will make them skinny, and they tend to eat animal products once their weight is down cause they never really cared to begin with. but there are some good people that went vegan for health and stayed for ethics so thats awesome! not every vegan is 20 and in portland.

lol i tried not to sound like i was apologizing but i didnt wanna start a whole wave of "fucking pussy vegans plants have feelings" bs beause boy... that makes my blood boil.

The romans were pederasts. Fitting that they would be vegan.

Also I find it hard to believe the book that introduces the idea of animal sacrifice would be vegan at all.

nah. i dont care about some dumbass sheep. they make a good baselayer in the winter.

You've obviously never heard of A Well-Fed World or Vegfam or any of these: vegnews.com/articles/page.do?pageId=3875&catId=3

>You've obviously never heard of A Well-Fed World or Vegfam or any of these

Thats the problem, neither has anyone else.

pretty much. I never heard of that and I don't care and I won't care about your dumb cause.

well the bible is a shitty book but im just saying its been a concept thats been around for years.
“And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” —Genesis 1:30
“But Daniel resolved that he would not defile himself with the royal rations of food and wine … Then Daniel asked … ‘Let us be given vegetables to eat and water to drink.’ … At the end of ten days it was observed that they appeared better and fatter than all the young men who had been eating the royal rations.” —Daniel 1:8, 11–12, 15

You're probably wrong. And milk can not be obtained ethically since a cow has to be impregnated in order to produce milk - meaning you're stealing the milk from the calf. Plus that's fucking retarded and gross.

And almost undoubtedly the farmers you think are doing things ethically are lying to you. I worked with the farmers who claimed they "respected" their animals to the public, then joked about abusing them in private. You can never trust a farmer. Even if they were supposedly doing everything ethically on their farm - they're going to have a surplus of calves and they're probably going to sell them off to another farmer who does abuse animals. And slaughters them. Even "Certified Humane" farms severely abuse their animals. theradicalvegan.tumblr.com/animals

I don't mean to sound rude, just giving you the facts most people don't have.

That's not vegan at all if you read it in contex, you misquoting, bait posting fagwit.

Holy shit, you are deluded if you think either of those verses have anything to do with veganism.
Especially when you understand that you are quoting them out of context, from scripture that is not in hebrew.

This is a nice thought experiment.
Too bad its akin to saying "there will be worldwide peace if the whole world converted to >insert some religion"

give me the proper context then since you know much.

how is it akin to that? i want to hear your reasoning. all religion done is promote a certain set of conduct and beliefs. you can be christian or muslim and it has no impact whatsoever. while removing sluaghterhouses from our society has a major impact. this is feeding the people of our planet and prevent it from dying so quickly, not everyone getting along.

>implying getting cows pregnant isn't ethical
>implying cows don't want to get laid.

quit cock blocking and drink your milk, faggot.

LMAO THIS RETARD THINKS WE CAN'T DIGEST PLANTS BECAUSE OF CELLULOSE. LOLOLOLOLOL. This retard doesn't know that cellulose is FIBER and we need it in our bodies to help us digest food even if we don't digest cellulose itself. LMAO. Oh god you watched that 1990's video of the ex-vegan who wrote a book that only sold because of defensive meat eaters didn't you?

Also throughout the majority of our evolutionary history we were herbivorous and our bodies still show that despite our recent ABILITY to eat meat (ability doesn't mean it's an ideal diet - especially considering: theradicalvegan.tumblr.com/health

The context is, wording highly varies because hebrew doesnt translate to english well at all.

>verse about creation
>verse about greed

>having to do with veganism while the next verses are telling you to smear sheep blood over your door frame, or to kill a lamb because you physically touched your wife while she was on her period

>theradicalvegan.tumblr

first.

>all religion done is promote a certain set of conduct and beliefs. you can be christian or muslim and it has no impact whatsoever.

>he doesnt know lack of dietary fiber contributes to a leading cause of death
he probably supports fatkins.

>hunter gatherers were actually just gatherers.

lel

Farmers can't all be loving respectful animal lovers. Animals don't have respect, generally speaking. Farmers are one of the oldest professions in the world. At this point the animals are only there for us. Farmers keep them safe, healthy and fed throughout childhood. Complaining about farmers hurting animals is like complaining about a mechanic being dirty or a female comedian not being funny. That's their job.

Ps not all farmers have animals. Don't forget the interaction between humans and animals that is present. You can't be arms in the air angry every time an animal dies. Welcome to the real world.

It's standard practice to artificially inseminate cows on what's called by the industry itself a "rape rack" (farmers have such a great sense of pride and humor don't they?), where they shove their arm into the cows anus and insert a rod into their vagina. There is no cock blocking, and cow milk tastes like fucking vomit even if there was no animal cruelty, environmental degradation, or health issues involved. But there are so your statement is even more ridiculous.

>Welcome to the real world.

I like to live in my world. The one where nobody on earth eats meat, and all slaughterhouses are gone, and all dairy farms are shuttered.
Sustainability by eating lentil from the second I wake up till right before I fall asleep!

nobody cares. youre still a faggot, and the supreme court has ruled that nobody cares about that either.

you arent going to change the world.

its not god saying "hey guys be vegan" its the biblical idea of bountiful food not including meat but grains and vegetables. you not providing any context at all for the quotes like i suspected so youre really just making excuses for yourself it seems. and the translating isnt context you cant mistake "i give you plants to eat" with "i made other sentient beings so you can factory farm them, rape them and then eat them" and yes the bible has verses about raping and beating other humans but that was never involved in the point i was originally making. my point was the concept of a plant based diet has been around before biblical times through evidence of what is viewed as food in the original bible. animals are not considered food but other creatures while normal things like greens are.

It's my temporary site until I get a more professional one. Tumblr was the only blog site I found that let me edit CSS and get a similar theme to what I wanted for free.

And I'm really bad with coming up with names for blogs that haven't been taken already. I don't mind the radical vegan but I do want something that doesn't focus on me when I create my professional website.

That site is just a convenient summary for people who are just learning about veganism. And I pride myself in my sources.

well it will have to happen when your fatass greed and need for mcdoubles sends our world into a crisis and the only way out is being vegan. but you probably wont have to worry about this since youll be dead by the time your 40 due to your clogged arteries

^This isn't the person this comment
was addressing just for the record. I'm ignoring that comment because I think everyone with half a brain can figure out the extent of the bullshit in that post, and anyone who couldn't wouldn't listen to my response anyway.

But cool rhyme anyway.

ok. it's a free country, you can believe whatever you want.

Eat some corn. Think about what you see in your poo afterwards. If what you see is in your poo it means your body absorbed all of it just handy dandy. Keep trying to say humans can digest cellulose while your anemia from lack of b vitamins and iron, flaky dry nails;skin; and hair from no dietary fat or omegas, low muscle mass and bone density due to lacking protein and calcium sets in. But you're right people get all that from cellulose so you're fine. There's no way that severely limiting your diet to only plants (shipped globally) can lead to health issues since you're using the old Roman and okinawan trick of vitamin supplements.

Zealous vegans (redundant?) are such imbeciles they can't see that their argument is just like defending being fat.

>You were born in a time where your selection of food is so bountiful that you can pick and choose what you want based on perceptions of hearsay from other people that can't undertake the task of critical thinking. Your diet only exists because our food systems are so advanced that they can support 7 billion people. I bet yu think your organic food is actually chemical free and local. Chinese farmers with outdated "organic" chemicals are laughing their way to the People's Bank with your naive set righteousness income you disposable, impressionable fucking twat.

cellulose cleans out the inside of our intestinal track and promotes bowl movements, again this isnt fringe science i learned this in basic biology. have you ever stepped foot inside a standard public school holy shit.

if you see corn in your feces it means you didn't chew it enough. we can digest the inside yellow part, just not the epidermal part of it.

i'm no vegan, by the way. just reminding you to get enough fiber in your diet. you'll learn some day, I guarantee it.