Hey guys, I'm a fucking idiot. I'm really dumb, especially when it comes to anything economics related...

Replacing fiat with cryptocurrency however isn't going to happen and if it is it won't be in our lifetimes. There's some coins that make a start however, like syscoin's webmarket will make people use crypto to purchase to some extent. Just don't be fooled thinking bitcoin, zclassic, xmr or whatever will be used globally because it won't.

It's another braindead sheep who thinks Bin Laden orchestrated 9/11

rolling

gold standard is good but is no good enought for the modern world, on the other hand FIAT is perfect but it need to be controlled by the goverment not by the fucking fed scam.

The gold standard is shit. It made the depression worse.
>When the stock market crashed in 1929, investors began trading in currencies and commodities. As the price of gold rose, people exchanged their dollars for gold. It worsened when banks began failing. People began hoarding gold because they didn't trust any financial institution.
>The Federal Reserve kept raising interest rates. It was trying to make dollars more valuable and dissuade people from further depleting the U.S. gold reserves. These higher rates worsened the Depression by making the cost of doing business more expensive. Many companies went bankrupt, creating record levels of unemployment.
And abandoning the gold standard created more economic growth.

you fucking moron, the reason its not controlled by the government is because the government would have too much power then. its specifically designed so politicians wouldn't have direct influence on its policies, only in third world countries and dictatorships the government controls the central bank

This. The gold standard has always been a problem in crises because downward spirals of groups basically running on the gold reserves in some way causes the currency to suffer as everybody scrambles to get rid of dollars and get gold. The government has to get more gold, which it buys with debt or rapidly weakening currency. After WW2 France and a bunch of other countries were depleting our reserves, and so to stop a crisis Nixon just axed the gold standard.

yea, deflationary spirals. hoarding, same amount of money chasing more goods and services (imagine if the dollar supply was fixed since 1970 - all the iphones and shiny new stuff would be chased with the same dollars). the government has no tool to inflate itself out of trouble.

however, with our current system, what are supposed mildly inflationary policies get out of hand. look at the asset "everything" bubble, such that a bunch of 0s and 1s on a blockchain are the next tool to be used as an asset against inflation. if a fiat system is to be used it has to have hard caps on money creation - it must match gdp growth for instance

It's not "fiat" money, its "flat" as in flat paper money that you can fit in your wallet

the problem with flat money is that it can be printed easily, and the fact that it is printed is why it is called "flat money" in the first place

It's a formality anyways, they already have power over the central bank. It doesn't constrain them in any way, if congress passes a budget the central bank makes sure the treasury has money to cover it. But that also means the hand wringing about central bank power is mostly useless anxiety. It does to the best of its abilities what it was created to do. Failure to fulfill its mission is just due to ignorance, mistakes or incompetency rather than nefarious conspiracy.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money
Wouldn't the solution for this simply be for the government to not print more money than it has gold to back up?

Everyone should have at least a few ounces of gold, amirite?

but then you run back into the problem of hoarding and deflationary spirals. you can do that but people will suffer.
the government doesn't care about that, they care that if people suffer enough, they will revolt.

the solution to what dummy? the whole point is that deflation causes unemployment and then people would be even more mad

He said a bad thing about gold standard is that in times of crisis, people want to cash in their notes for actual gold. But the government doesn't have enough to give everyone their gold at the same time, so they have to buy more with debt. Which is why I asked why the government couldn't just avoid the problem by not printing more notes than they have gold to back up.

>wikipedia, the encyclopedia anybody can edit

dummy

because then the economy wouldn't grow or it would grow very slowly. Having liquidity to invest in the future is something that can bring you huge growth

Are you retarded? It is called "fiat money," not "flat money." The title of the article isn't going to be fucked up. I might be dumb but at least I know the difference between "i" and "l."

investopedia.com/terms/f/fiatmoney.asp

Why does the economy need to constantly grow? I'm not trying to sound like a smartass, but I don't see why we have to constantly be striving to make sure everyone can afford a flat screen TV and two mortgages on their McMansion. It seems like the economy is forced to grow simply so it can keep feeding massive banks that live off of debt.

>Are you retarded?

Are you? It's obviously "flat" money, if you can fold it and put it in your wallet.

you might not realize it but the constant drive of companies to offer you the new shitproduct to consume for profits also drives scientific and technological innovation to make these products reality

No it isn’t, the problem is that it is inherently deflationary because gold has a (somewhat) fixed supply. Look up deflation, it isn’t good.
This is the exact reason why the gold standard was abandoned.

>hoarding
Keeping the money I've earned on my account if I don't care about investing? Not throwing it blindly at DJI or flavor of the month stocks and inflating the bubbles further? Is that hoarding?
>deflationary spirals
These aren't a thing you know. Deflation happens as the result of an economic crisis, most of which are caused by credit and loan bubbles bursting. If you have a "deflationary spiral" and you aren't recovering, it's because you lived above your means previously. Printing more money doesn't exactly do anything but stimulate the few select sectors at the expense of anybody holding any cash. Recently we've had our stock market stimulated real good, and still the productivity is only finally climbing to 2008 levels. So much for that inflationary stimulus nonsense having any truth to it.

When it stops, we see unemployment, decline in wages, decline in prices of consumer goods. Can you guess what happens to crime rates when unemployment ticks up? Can you guess what happens to food production rates when prices drop?

>Look up deflation, it isn’t good.
Brainlet and/or uninformed. There's no factual evidence against deflation, apart from deflation appearing _after_ an economic crisis has happened. In fact if somebody doesn't print tons of new money you can't even really talk about deflation. It's neutral, doesn't get more neutral than that. If you go look at different CPI graphs during times of deflationary currencies, you can see that prices didn't in fact keep collapsing, they stayed flat.

Ok bud

not sure why you felt the need to post that

do you think bitcoin is going up in the near future?

i'm going to sell you a coffee now, would you rather pay me $1 or the equivalent in BTC.

It’s a dismissal of the idea that deflation is a good or merely neutral thing, you are the first person I’ve ever heard make such an argument, it is widely considered bad for well known reasons that I can’t even be bothered to argue this. It’s like “credit freezes aren’t bad” just... ok bud

>do you think bitcoin is going up in the near future?
>i'm going to buy a coffee from you now, would you rather sell me a coffee for $1 or the equivalent in BTC?

See how the whole
>currencies should be deflationary
Is a retarded meme?

Deflationary currencies are only preferred by governments to prop up debt driven economies and increase taxable revenue.

Example:

you trade 1lbs of gold for 10 lbs of silver. Assume 2% inflation/year. A year later you trade the 10 lbs of silver for 1lbs of gold. You're net wealth didn't change right? Well according to the government you now owe taxes because that silver you had gained value relative to their deflationary currency they force you to pay taxes in.

That is the primary reason the government created a deflationary currency.

Fuck if I know. If I did, I'd put all my savings on bitcoin or short it.

Say BTC went up 1% a year. I'd hold all my wealth in BTC. Are you saying I would never spend my BTC for anything? Are you saying that 1% would impact my spending habits significantly? Because that's just retarded. Nobody consumes shit because of inflation

>well known reasons
You're aware that the industrial revolution happened during deflationary currency? You're aware that the average wealth of people has been declining for decades?
>you are the first person I’ve ever heard make such an argument
This is how I know you have no clue what you're talking about. You've never even heard somebody challenge this?

>Why does the economy need to constantly grow?
Because population is going up. If economic growth is lower than population growth then it leads to a depression in which eventually there is a population decline. Conversely babies stimulate the economy.

Because we a debt driven economy. Our incomes must grow to out grow out debt or the whole thing collapses.

The best model is an economy with debt, but where debt is only used to increase productivity and so its overall beneficial. But that of course never works out. Debt taken on almost never is used to increase productivity, most of it is taken to consume retail items marked up 90% or to buy real estate and squat on it to charge rent. Its human nature, everyone wants to earn money by doing nothing. Selling debt allows them to do that.

Because of this better model is a deflationary currency with no debt. There is no positive feedback loop that creates massive debt cycles swings. There are no "lost decades" when the whole ponzi schemes inevitably collapses.

some of these ingots are painted wood I am 120% sure of it.

Gold is a great way to take profits off the table. It's good because it's allocated not like fiat exchanges. It's also bank and state independent and hidden from taxes. When I need to pay for things I go back to crypto.
I use vaultoro.com but they only have a bitcoin gold pair. I wish they had silver and other alts too. They say they are working on it but its been 2 years and they still don't have another pair so don't really know what to think. But anyway they use pro Aurum in Switzerland as a vaulting provider and it's fully audit and insured. I don't fucking trust exchanges so that's why I like these guys.

>BTC is digital gold
>cant pay for single chiclets without massive fee in comparison to purchase
BTC BTFO

It's too late to go back to any gold standard. There is too much fiat in circulation than the entire gold supply. Not only would you have to make the U.S fiat gold backed, but also all other countries fiat gold backed as well to have any sort of positive economic effect.

Look up all milton Friedman's speeches on youtube. Study them. Then buy his book. You now have the best grasp of true free market economic principle.

Warning: serious redpilling will occur

>no krugerrand

Are you even trying

>hidden from taxes

How do you figure that?
You just never go into cash?

Yes you are rite user.

the amount of nwo shills in this thread shitting all over gold is hilarious. the FUD is real.

"Gold standard" per se is dumb, because it is just a scam, by the smart, to steal gold from the dumb--

>Here I give you these important pieces of paper you give me that gold goy-- I mean citizen!

Having a "gold standard" like we had, which was just a ponzi waiting for the collapse (1933) of over-printed paper, is not much different than having fiat money system which is an open ponzi. If you want gold, you can buy gold and have real money.

(it's all moot argument anyway, now crypto is king)

I traded into gold at 1600 and converted 40% of the gold bullion back into bitcoin yesterday. If I did that with cash I would attract taxes I'm my country. But swapping from asset to asset is fine.
Bank independent bitches!

i hope you're not in the us because the irs considers each move you made a taxable event.

This user gets it.
Another problem:
- debt must be paid back with interest, so
- amount of money in circulation must increase, so
- production must also increase, or money will lose value (inflation), but
- production requires mineral resources, and
- mineral resources are finite, thus
- production cannot increase infinitely, thus
- the system must collapse (default, hyperinflation or both)

The 2008 crisis started when the oil production could not be increased to match demand, the price spiked to $200/bbl and the shock cascaded through the entire system.

gold standard is outdated
debt doesnt mean anything and is healthy
will likely be inflated away
shiny rocks are boomer memes
crypto has outperformed and will continue to outperform

read Human Action by Ludwig von Mises if you like reading, or for a more compact work, read the Ethics of Private Property by Hans-Hermann Hoppe.

Statists and Keynesianists will tell you a deflationary currency does not work and an inflationary currency is required in modern economy. These arguments all seem reasonable on the surface but are based in economic confusion and it requires some classical economic literacy to understand where this confusion comes from.

For example, it is not trivial to see why fractional banking does not create value. On the surface it seems fine to have the bank use the money in your bank account that you are not using in order to fund investments. In this way you can have your savings (provided not everyone needs all their savings at the same time) and entrepeneurs can have capital investment too. The fallacy of this situation becomes apparent when you realise that the value of money is determined by the demand for money, and by putting your money in your savings account, your demand for money stays the same (all things remaining the same). On the other hand, using those savings without your knowledge to fund capital investment satisfies some demand for money by entrepeneurs. The total demand for money is lowered but the supply remains the same, lowering the purchasing power of all money.

Similar fallacies underlie their justification for inflation. Again, if you're really interested, just pick up a book by Keynes himself and pick up a good criticism of Keynes by Hazlitt or some other Austrian economist and read for yourself.

Fuck that! I migrated to a better country years ago that doesn't tax the shit out of everyone and then say it's freedom

Tally sticks > gold and buttcoins

then i salute you with another braptastic image

No. You have in media to scam clueless people like you to buy their gold/silver. Anyone who is selling is lying to you

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>Can you guess what happens to food production rates when prices drop?
I like discounted food.
But go on...

the unspeakable things i would do to that bimbo

WHY IS IT ALWAYS COFFEE? Aaaaaaaaa