Faust

What would you say is the best literary version of the Faust legend?

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it's a horrible comparison desu. i think i've probably read more faust retellings than anyone else on this board (though im missing a major one in the recognitions) and i think it's pretty futile to compare them like this. the reason the legend is so popular is that it is simultaneously subject and universal, and can be tailored to many highly particular circumstances and narratives while remaining enlightening. as such it's really a very apples to oranges comparison to rank them.

it's goethe fampai

thanks for the answer

i'll have to reread The Recognitions, i think.

bump for faust memes

>tfw you're born
>you're smaller than your father's hand
>die

I have only read Goethe's Faust, but I cannot imagine a better version to exist.

Agree with this.
I think you can easily say though that at the very least, none has had as great of an impact as Goethe's.

Mahou Shoujo MadokaMagica, followed very closely by Goethe. A nice derivative piece:

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Marlowe

>Mahou Shoujo MadokaMagica

kill yourself

Worst way to introduce Madoka I have ever seen

I would say that Marlowe’s is the best version. It is shorter, more concise, more poetical and metaphorical, more aggressive, more violent, more crude and primitive than Goethe’s version.

Also, Marlowe’s play can be successfully played on the theater, while Goethe’s work is too long and, at times, quite non-dramatic. There is also the point of Marlowe’s effort being consistent its style, while Goethe’s is the product of a long time, written in breaks from his other works.

And, to be frank, I think Marlowe was a better poet than Goethe. Unfortunately he died very young, but his poetry was already great and mature. Some examples:

Nature, that framed us of four elements
Warring within our breasts for regiment,
Doth teach us all to have aspiring minds.
Our souls, whose faculties can comprehend
The wondrous architecture of the world
And measure every wandering planet's course,
Still climbing after knowledge infinite,
And always moving as the restless spheres,
Wills us to wear ourselves and never rest,
Until we reach the ripest fruit of all,
That perfect bliss and sole felicity,
The sweet fruition of an earthly crown.

-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

With milk-white harts upon an ivory sled
Thou shalt be drawn amidst the frozen pools,
And scale the icy mountains' lofty tops,
Which with thy beauty will be soon resolv'd:

-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

FAUSTUS
Ah, Faustus,
Now hast thou but one bare hour to live,
And then thou must be damn'd perpetually!
Stand still, you ever-moving spheres of heaven,
That time may cease, and midnight never come;
Fair Nature's eye, rise, rise again, and make
Perpetual day; or let this hour be but
A year, a month, a week, a natural day,
That Faustus may repent and save his soul!
O lente, lente currite, noctis equi!
The stars move still, time runs, the clock will strike,
The devil will come, and Faustus must be damn'd.
O, I'll leap up to my God!—Who pulls me down?—
See, see, where Christ's blood streams in the firmament!
One drop would save my soul, half a drop: ah, my Christ!—
Ah, rend not my heart for naming of my Christ!
Yet will I call on him: O, spare me, Lucifer!—
Where is it now? 'tis gone: and see, where God
Stretcheth out his arm, and bends his ireful brows!
Mountains and hills, come, come, and fall on me,
And hide me from the heavy wrath of God!
No, no!
Then will I headlong run into the earth:
Earth, gape! O, no, it will not harbour me!
You stars that reign'd at my nativity,
Whose influence hath allotted death and hell,
Now draw up Faustus, like a foggy mist.
Into the entrails of yon labouring cloud[s],
That, when you vomit forth into the air,
My limbs may issue from your smoky mouths,
So that my soul may but ascend to heaven!
[The clock strikes the half-hour.]
Ah, half the hour is past! 'twill all be past user
O God,
If thou wilt not have mercy on my soul,
Yet for Christ's sake, whose blood hath ransom'd me,
Impose some end to my incessant pain;
Let Faustus live in hell a thousand years,
A hundred thousand, and at last be sav'd!
O, no end is limited to damned souls!
Why wert thou not a creature wanting soul?
Or why is this immortal that thou hast?
Ah, Pythagoras' metempsychosis, were that true,
This soul should fly from me, and I be chang'd
Unto some brutish beast! all beasts are happy,
For, when they die,
Their souls are soon dissolv'd in elements;
But mine must live still to be plagu'd in hell.
Curs'd be the parents that engender'd me!
No, Faustus, curse thyself, curse Lucifer
That hath depriv'd thee of the joys of heaven.
[The clock strikes twelve.]
O, it strikes, it strikes! Now, body, turn to air,
Or Lucifer will bear thee quick to hell!
[Thunder and lightning.]
O soul, be chang'd into little water-drops,
And fall into the ocean, ne'er be found!
Enter DEVILS.
My God, my god, look not so fierce on me!
Adders and serpents, let me breathe a while!
Ugly hell, gape not! come not, Lucifer!
I'll burn my books!—Ah, Mephistophilis!
[Exeunt DEVILS with FAUSTUS.]

Galactic Pot-Healer

>It is shorter, more concise, more poetical and metaphorical, more aggressive, more violent, more crude and primitive than Goethe’s version.

>equating spectacle with quality and artistic sophistication

>Also, Marlowe’s play can be successfully played on the theater, while Goethe’s work is too long and, at times, quite non-dramatic.

goethe's was never meant to be performed outside of certain scenes you idiot

>There is also the point of Marlowe’s effort being consistent its style, while Goethe’s is the product of a long time, written in breaks from his other works.

exactly why it's better. it traces the entirety of goethe's artistic and intellectual development, and that of european/german culture during his life time. it's a more expansive and encompassing work

>And, to be frank, I think Marlowe was a better poet than Goethe.
[citation needed]

>you idiot

My opinion is different from yours. Learn to respect that, faggot.

And I dont think you would be able to find in all Goehte's work moments that are better than Marlowe's top speeches and metaphors.

>falling for the opinion meme

also theres nothing "opinion" related about goethe's faust not being meant for the stage, so "non dramatic" and "too long" are meaningless criticisms

>And I dont think you would be able to find in all Goehte's work moments that are better than Marlowe's top speeches and metaphors.
you don't read very much do you

look it's ok to be a pleb who's impressed by spectacle and bombast but don't pretend you know anything about art and literature

>look it's ok to be a pleb who's impressed by spectacle and bombast but don't pretend you know anything about art and literature

And yet I am a great writer, with a gift you would kill for. Among us two I am the only one who actually have the potential to make perpetual art.

I won’t offer examples of what I mean: I don’t want to have you chasing me with bitterness and aggressiveness in the critic threads, but I am being completely honest: you would lose your breath if you could read my material in the original.

>>falling for the opinion meme

says the german-fag who is rooting for “muh national poet” but pretending to analyze the matter with cold logic

>logic
is meaningless

>you would lose your breath if you could read my material in the original.
kek

im american actually

oh..o-ok senpai.

I'm 19 years old.

I am handsome, smart, athletic and virile.

I have a novel that is in it's final editing stage, and a creative writing professor at my college has read the first draft and thinks it's saleable.

I have a girlfriend who is confident, articulate, playful and spontaneous.

I have a small group of interesting friends from different social and academic backgrounds, and I also have many other acquaintances who see me as a reliable source of humour and good company.

Both my parents are alive and in good health.

I have no regrets.

I have already experienced three existential crises, the latter of which was described as having the depth and profundity of a man twice my age.

I am a passionate lover, a sharp thinker, and a trader of witty repartee.

I am not self-pitying, meek or needlessly humble.

I will live a good life at your expense.

first time on Veeky Forums and I'm fuckin laffin m80s are you guys always this cringe worthy?

This:is a meme post, an old post

The only one cringeworthy here is you. Lurk more newfag.

oh good, I had hoped so by the time I reached the existential crisis line

suck it honky

>nice thread about faust memes
>turns into autism

never change Veeky Forums

Of the various versions, I believe Goethe's is the most complete and ambition in vision. It spans not only the well known version of the Faust myth (in fact his is probably the one is that most famous in popular culture, alongside Marlowe's), but also a super crazy set of stories spanning Greek history/mythology and other crazy shit. Bet you most people don't know Faust travels back in time and marries Helen of Troy in Faust II, cause no one reads it! I think Goethe's Faust is the one that tends to be most divorced of any societal and political influences, and is purely "literary." Not unlike something like the Divine Comedy, Faust/Faust II is a very "self aware" work in terms of its debt and relation to classical literature.

Marlowe's Faust is a true play, as opposed to Goethe's, which was meant to be read and not performed (simplification, but yeah). As such, it is very much given to dramatic flourishes and devices that are meant to excite and evoke fear, excitement, sympathy, disgust, etc. in the audience/reader. If you're familiar with Marlowe it's a very standard display of Marlowe's learning and dramatic powers.

Mann's take is a not at all veiled allegory for Nazi Germany. It is very much tied to its time period and societal implications, but is also a finely constructed work. It is a later work than the more famous/celebrated Buddenbrooks and Magic Mountain, and I think Mann's power waxed with age. An added bonus is the intimate connection with classical music that was more background in Buddenbrooks and Magic Mountain, but is allowed to take center stage in Doctor Faustus. Here there is no observably occult and supernatural elements, and the story is rooted firmly in realism, a drastic departure from the previous two.

Bulgakov's is the least obviously Faustian of the Faustian myths. Like Mann, it is very much tied to the society the author lived in, in this case Soviet Russia. It is also highly metatextual, with the Master character as a very close facsimile of Bulgakov himself, and a sustained story-within-a-story that is the "Master's" novel. The Faust aspects are more subtle except in certain scenes (the Walpurgicnacht chapter, for example). The magic elements here approach the fantastical, and is more like a fairy tale than the classical and epic magical/divine elements of Marlowe and Goethe.

these faust memes suck you guys suck