Do you have to be religious to be an incredible writer?

Yeah, I'm drunk. Gonna smoke a cig. Await your reply. Let's figure some life stuff out?

PS select all images with rivers.

that's a vernal pool

lil salamanders n shit

Some of those people aren't even atheist.

For example, Hobbes. Atheism wasn't the same back then either, because you could believe in God but not divine providence and you'd be considered atheist. Hobbes did believe in divine providence, though.

>not a single great author or philosopher
lol
>The purposes of this list are to combat the pervasive myth that atheists are terrible, immoral people and to convince the undecided that it is OK to be an atheist.
By definition, atheists are immoral people.

Morality isn't 'muh law' or 'muh common feels'.

There has never been a single great artist that was not religious, and very few of those have not been christian.

Wow, you are seriously confused.

Not an argument

Nor was your post.

there have been barely any non religious people ever so that naturally follows

If you weren't raised within a religion it would be very tough to even begin thinking about humanity and art since you lack a moral and aesthetic framework to build on. Basically a barbarian

Pretty sure this is trolling, but there's a big grain of truth here. Religion is a thick lens through which to view the world, and the product of a mind that sees that way is going to look "off" to someone who doesn't use that lens. To say the least.

Yes, even that famous Christian author you like.

I'm not the one arguing with you, you are arguing with them. You have accepted you didn't present an argument.

It's logically impossible for a theist to act morally.

No, just Greek.

Only CHAD can have truly incredible PROSE, THEMES AND STRUCTURE.

this dude is clearly gay

He's just a model. He's not necessarily gay, just probably hilariously vain to be in that line of work.

For whatever reason, female models always shit on male models.

Pretty sure this is trolling, but there's a big grain of truth here. Being alpha is a thick lens through which to view the world, and the product of a mind that sees that way is going to look "off" to someone who doesn't use that lens. To say the least.

Yes, even Chad.

Not sure what you mean.

You don't have to be devout or anything but lacking a religious understanding or grounding really hampers your prospects writing about humanity since religion (christianity) is already itself the best representation of the human predicament.

You can be an agnostic or a lapsed so and so but you can't be "an atheist" in the contemporary sense of the term. I would say understanding the philosophy of religion is enough, being receptive to the teachings, understanding its purpose etc. if this is something that worries you as a future writer.

Just try and read catholic writers like joyce or gerard go into religion, it's amazing. Joyce wasn't even heavily practicing while he was older but literally studied the GREEKS and all the way up to aquinas and so on.

When he was what 17? He was learning what people don't even learn till they're in their early to mid 20's now and at a very advanced rate.

The fact of the matter is even if you aren't discussing theological topics to have that background of being highly studied adds another depth to their writing and the author.

Before anyone tries memeing as well, almost all the best education pre 21st mid 20th century was found in schools run by jesuits and other religious orders, they spread education all over the world even to india, japan etc.

If you were somewhat of note it'd be impossible to escape some aspect of religiosity or divine presence in your life.

...

>understanding how other people think is important to being a good writer
Wow no way.

You can absolutely be an atheist and understand how religion functions, what various faiths teach and what functions those teachings serve. Nothing really prevents that. I was raised devoutly Christian, lots of study and discussion of the Bible and theology, but it's really not as sophisticated and mysterious as believers like to say it is.

pic not related i presume

Joyce was an atheist.

>but it's really not as sophisticated and mysterious as believers like to say it is.
Don't lie online.

Oh come on, you can't be that stupid

So you're going to ignore everything said?

He's still a catholic writer, he grew up with a catholic education and was quite heavily influenced by it so much so it takes up massive portions of his writings.

I never said he was an atheist, and neither has joyce said he was an atheist.

Portrait of an artist as a young man might as well be catholic canon for a young teen finding his place.

Even the people who strayed from the church or religion hardly ever completely gave it up or stated to outright. They were different times from now.

Proust was also an atheist.

What part of "Joyce was an atheist" do you not understand?

It's just not. Christian intellectual tradition and art are for the most part bad appropriations of things that originated elsewhere and maudlin sentimentality.

That doesn't mean it isn't a worldview that works for many people and offers some value, but the "sophisticated" parts of Christianity have next to nothing to do with that.

So people who "strayed from the church or religion" are the same as believers who go to mass every day?

Proust was also an aesthete sadist.

He probably shouldn't be one of the first names that you go to here. The man was complicated to say the least.

agnosticism and atheism are different though.

We're talking about good writers, not good men.

What the fuck are you on about? There is no question that Proust was an incredible writer, which is what the thread is about.

He straight-up thought Christianity was a bunch of bullshit.

>Christian intellectual tradition and art are for the most part bad appropriations of things that originated elsewhere and maudlin sentimentality.
Oh, you're just a troll.

Oh, you just have a surface-level understanding of world history.

>What the fuck are you on about?

It's very debatable that Proust's greatness had little if anything to do with that fact that he was atheist and everything to do with his boatload of neuroses. He's an example, sure, but a poor one.

What this thread is about is inherently bullshit to begin with. Faith or not the real driving factor to the great were their specific neuroses.

>tfw when mentally healthy, emotionally resilient and basically happy but like to write
Guess I'm fucked

No, you do, hence why you think Christianity is shallow

It's true that people with "a boatload of neuroses" are more likely to become religious fanatics. So perhaps that's where the correlation with artistic achievement originates, if such there be.

Proust was Jewish Catholic. He was a full Jew, in terms with the Talmud, because of his mother but also a Catholic through baptism and by his father. He never said he was an atheist but the reason we think he was because he hung out with antisemites and said things considered antisemitic, but back then it wasn't considered antisemitic.

It's a bit complicated, he said he lapsed but scholars believe that he might have never lapsed at at all. He said many good things about Catholicism and his Jesuit education.

>Christianity is big boy stuff!
>help I'm being persecuted by so-called secular intellectuals who say it's not!
Like clockwork. It's kind of impressive that the church managed to build a web so big that even some smart people think it's the whole world.

Stop trolling, dear.

Wow, you are truly delusional. Proust and Joyce were both well known atheists.

Good one.

Gore Vidal

Just because I'm trying to get a reaction doesn't mean I'm wrong.

No, you're wrong because you have no actual understanding of Christianity.

>y-you just don't get it
The one thing a Christian can't believe in is a sincere apostate.

Yes indeed, Joyce's understanding of religion and especially Catholicism is complicated, that's why it is inappropriate to simply label him as a Catholic or an atheist

Because there is no such thing.

Of course im writer.

I am so glad I read your comment before even bothering with that link. Hobbes as an atheist is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.

Most atheists are terrible writers. Immediately Voltaire comes to mind, pretty sure the people who recommended me him in college all wore fedoras.

Catholics really are the best of the best. Catholic writers are god-tier.

No, he "straight-up" didn't. He largely left the Catholic Church and was more or less non-practicing as an adult. However, there is a very important difference between leaving the church and leaving God. I've seen no indication that he did the latter. In fact, he was even known to still attend a service or two infrequently as he grew older.

Anytime I see one of these threads on this site I despair a bit more.

Do you HAVE to be anything in order to write great books? No, of course not, great writing isn't a consequence of one's experience and idiosyncrasies, they are merely material to be used, a place from which to start one's writing and thoughts, they don't make you any better as a writer.

You illiterate, unapologetically braindead bringers of ruin upon literature.

Here's a direct quote - James Joyce on the gospel:

"He comes into the world God knows how, walks on the water, gets out of his grave and goes up off the Hill of Howth. What drivel is this?"

Given the evidence, you'd have to be a religious nutjob to think Joyce bought into any of that superstitious horseshit.

>Salman Rushdie
>Terry Pratchett
>Philip Pullman
What do you think?
What do you think?

I was operating under the assumption that we all knew the difference between fictional characters and real life.

That distinction still applies with semi-autobiographical characters.

So we're taking a quote form a fictional character, and mind you a character which even if related autobiographically was joyce when he was 17-18, and ignoring all the other quotes where he praises religion in said same book, and turning it into joyce is atheist?

lmao, why are you such a fedora tipper, go read hawkings.

Shakespeare, Joyce, Dante, Pynchon....

Catholics.

this user is right, but there's alot more than this.

why do people try to dismiss the fact that Christians were the architects of the greatest cultures?

Atheists.

no

"Now I beg all those that listen to this little treatise [Canterbury Tales], or read it, that if there be anything in it that pleases them, they thank our Lord Jesus Christ for it, from whom proceeds all understanding and goodness."
- Chaucer

athiests btfo

we don't know if Shakespeare was Catholic

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheist_authors

>List includes Graham Greene
WUT?

>atheists cant be moral
>morality depends on doing what youre told by a book

Yeah, and you have to be religious to know anything, no way you could reason it out yourself.

>Reddit: The Post

Dante was catholic undoubtedly. Anyone who thinks otherwise is functionally retarded. Only the most fedoraed of fedora's would deny this. Shakespeare was probably Catholic, but certainly Christian. Joyce was a lapsed Catholic with a strong affinity and appreciation for Catholic theology and art. The same could be said of Pynchon, but I suspect he is still practicing.

I mean, probably.

>Pynchon is Catholic

Depends on if you mean sincere Christians who seek Christlikeness or if you mean people who put crosses on their letterhead while pillaging and hiring Jews to rip people off. They both contributed, but so did people who were neither.

No, but having a spiritual crisis at an early age can't hurt.