They can't even tell red from white!

>they can't even tell red from white!
>california has the best wine in the universe, I saw a movie about it once
>$20,000 wine isn't 2000x as good as $10 wine, therefore nice things are a scam
What are your favorite ways of responding when an arrogant whine snob tries to make you feel dumb and unsophisticated?

Admitting that I am contrarian only due to being poor and hating myself for it.

>Thanks for paying for most of my dinner.

both wine snobs and anti-culture faggots such as yourself are equally cancerous

Lol, did you just defend 20,000 dollar wine?
Are you completely retarded?

Hold the glass of wine up to my ear, and shush them with a condescending look every time they try and ask me what I'm doing, it's hardly fault they're such a pleb they don't listen to the grapes

>here's my strong opinion on something I've never tried, let me tell you about your experience

Yes I did. As far as i'm concerned, nobody who pays more than $3000 for the cheapest functioning car possible has no right to judge anybody else based on how much they choose to pay for wine.

>wine

20/20

Every time I get angry with morons like you, I take a deep breath and I remember that they pay absurd amounts of money to a guy like me that tricks them into buying some shitty wine and a false sense of identity.

$20,000 to a 20$ wine what $3,000,000 are to a $3,000 car.
You are certainly not rich enough to just waste 3 million, so it's obvious that you try too hard to impress.
Mommy issues eh?

>coworker's wife totalled their SUV again while texting
>he's browsing the internet looking for a "crossover" whatever the fuck that is
>some bullshit that costs $47k
>they don't even need a cage, maybe twice a month to drive out to Montauk and they can just take the train but muh cage, muh freedumb
>motherfucker literally drinks the most bottom shelf god-awful garbage
>says good stuff is "too expensive"
>meanwhile, muh $47k "crossover" that will either lose 3/4 of its value the second he drives it out of the showroom, or get totalled by his wife again

Cagers have the weirdest value system

>cage
>cage
>freedumb
>cager
worst bait I've seen in years, 0/10

I'm sorry I didn't put trigger warnings on my post. Maybe you should get one of those plugins that changes words to make them less scary.

Just buy a Miata

never mind, this is worse bait. -1/10

"Drinking for the sake of drinking is degeneracy."

Veeky Forums is degeneracy, stormtourist newfag.

Where can I get the sake of drinking and how much is it?

Probably at the same place you can get the bag of holding and the sword of cutting.

Http at least you found a way to feel superior to both dot xkcd

Hitler also did speed so fuck right off

Guess what: people who don't get emotional over things are always superior to people who do.

I don't like alcohol and I do wan't to get into it

I'm not even that faggot you are talking to, but you know you are being intellectually dishonest by using his crazy $20K number

People here complain if you spend $100 retail on a bottle of wine, which is more akin to spending $15,000 on a car rather than $3,000. Hell, I'm betting over half, if you started a thread fresh talking about a $50 bottle, would bitch and snort about it, rather than buying fucking Barefoot or some shit.

There is a plateau point for wine where you start getting diminishing returns, and that is where you get rich ass mofos that would spend 20-50x the price for a 10-30% increase in any kind of uniqueness or complexity (that only maybe 5% of wine drinkers could really enjoy). But that plateau is up around the $60 mark (retail, would be closer to $180 in a restaurant). I mean, a $20,000 bottle of wine is something that is auctioned at Loyd's of London or Christie's for fuck's sakes.

>try too hard to impress
>nobody could possibly enjoy nice things, it must all be for show! They're just trying to make me angry!!!
ahhhhhh you're one of those retards.

>cage, Montauk, cage, freedumb, doesn't understand insurance beyond minimums
Get an AIDS test, faggot.

>haha not caring is the only way to win, I mean like holocaust more like who gives a fuck-caust haha solved that argument too give me another
>having a consistent ideology? I might have to defend it haha nice try no thanks

>literally being this autistic
RUN

>insurance is so you can text while driving
Cager logic

I used to work in the Wine industry, both the vineyard and the Winery but not retail. This was in Australia.

Let me redpill you on wine.

Everything over about US$40 is marketing. Yes we reduce the vine's ton/acre yield to a ridiculously low proportion but the vines could ripped and nourish the higher yield we'd sell for $35 a bottle. Yes we do a lot of labour intensive stuff in the winery which needs paying for along with your fancier corks but it just makes no difference.

Sure it tastes different but ask anyone who is into wine but not a complete douche (hard to do I know) and they will tell you it's different but not necessary better.

My favourite wine: Riesling, not that popular but delicious.

>australia
>wine

I've never actually experienced that before. I only drink wine at the racquet club, I drink beer otherwise.

It wouldn't make me feel dumb and unsophisticated, I would simply think they're inexperienced.

>classic australian shitpost.

Most of it sucks, don't let anyone tell you differently, but some of it is really exceptional and worth trying.

As far as wine goes, the only kind I really like is Riesling, which is actually very nice, but beers the only things I really recommend to non-drinkers are some of the stouts like Guinness, and then make sure to tell them which bars serve it properly, since a lazy pour and unclean taps make it taste metallic, while a proper pour + clean taps has a nice clean feel to it. There's lots more beers to be excited about, but I feel like a good stout is more unique and should be tried, but of course it's a bit of an acquired taste

tl;dr

>My favourite wine: Riesling, not that popular but delicious.

Riesling Spatlese is pretty popular here with the working class, an Aldi classic.

Not the user you're responding to, but you miss the entire aspect of class expectations. People generally abide by the norms of their social class. If most of your peers drink soda, drive pickup trucks, shop at Walmart and east fast food it would seem awfully pretentious to drop serious money on wine, or even drink it at all. But if your peers have wine cellars, drive luxury cars, shop at boutiques and eat at Michelin starred restaurants buying good wine (regardless of cost) isn't the least bit odd. At a certain point people like that make peace with the fact that they'll never actually DRINK all the wine they buy, and the cellar will just become part of their estate when they die.

It's not odd, but it is a bit annoying. As I said in the Soda thread, I feel wine snobbery is holding gastronomy back.

Drinks lose out on gastronomic innovation because restaurateurs don't want to lose the chance to bilk the easy marks which are expensive wine drinkers (and expensive water drinkers).

>wine snobbery is holding gastronomy back
you just don't get it because youre not cultured enough.

Its the best car

I thought the best car was the S2K

I feel you

I suppose a case could be made for that, with somms and wealthy Chinese buying up so much Burgundy that the good stuff has become totally out of reach. But good Burgundy is a luxury, just like fine dining. And luxury products are generally for rich people. So it's really more a matter of social class. Giving too much of a fuck about gastronomy or high end wine is not really right for someone in the middle class because that's not that world. If you can't really afford the cost of entry why are you there?

One of the nicest things about wine is that it can be egalitarian. There are tons of good under $15 (even under $10) bottles for people who aren't rich to enjoy. Do any of them taste remoely like a red Burgundy or Bordeaux from a great vintage opened after the "right" amount of cellaring? Nope. But they're good.

I wouldn't worry about gastronomy being "held back". It's like art, music and fashion. The classic stuff will always be classic, there will always be new trends going on and a very small percentage of the new stuff will eventually become classic. It's not something to worry about.

And I wouldn't even call it snobbery. It's more that people generally stick to their own social class. The middle class guy will pay more to eat at Five Guys partially because the food is better than McDonald's, but also because the price keeps the lower class out. The rich do the same thing, but choose places where the price keeps the middle class out. There's nothing wrong with that.

I don't bother with them. The truth is that anyone who has had expensive wine knows that in terms of quality, it is only just slightly above 2 buck chuck.

Wine is much like fashion or automobiles. People use it as a status symbol, they want the name-brands. They don't care about reality, they care only for perception.

nope miada.

>i've never had a good pair of jeans
>i've never experienced the features and comfort of a luxury car
>i've never had good wine
>I don't have nice things so there must be no point
the post.

>Drinks lose out on gastronomic innovation
Gotta reply to you again, because I disagree with you strongly here as well. The whole early 2000's cocktail thing hit pretty hard. Now even shitty chain restaurants have lists of their "signature cocktails". The craft beer thing has upped most folks' beer game quite a bit. And wine lists are more diverse than ever - you don't see that many that are only French classics anymore. People who are into coffee are drinking better coffee than they were a couple decades ago.

There's been a lot of forward movement over the last couple decades when it comes to drinks. Even soda, though you see less of that on the high end.

how much of your parents money have you spent on moto life you anti cage cuck

>I spend exorbitant amounts of money on things which are only just slightly better than the affordable everyday things in life solely in the pursuit of status symbols.

>luxury cars
planned obsolescence, they fall apart after 3 years. Buy replacement parts, $$$.
>expensive jeans
planned obsolescence, they fall apart after 6 months. Buy another pair, $$$.
>good wine
Nothing but a name. This is a business first and foremost. The name of the game is profit, how do you get profit? You tell dumb dicks like you that it's "fine" wine, you spruce up your day-to-day operations in order to give the allure of "tradition". $$$.

Move near any major wine producing region on Earth and you will learn this very quickly. There is a reason that people living near Burgundy pay jack shit for the same wine that you pay a thousand dollars for per bottle. It's because the people living near there would never in a million years consent to being charged that much for wine, but you will, dumb foreign fuck with a taste for "luxury".

Enjoy living a lie and pretending to be superior to other people who are, in reality, getting more pleasure out of life than you are for a fraction of the price.

You realize the price is meaningless, though. All that matters is that the vehicle is the same thing the other people driving out to Montauk are driving, so they know they made the right choice. If everyone on Montauk were riding Vespas your coworker would be buying a Vespa. He's making decisions the same way everybody does: look around to see what your peers are doing, and do that.

this is somewhat correct. there is a middle ground. anything above it is for status and anything below it is for price and bad quality based on that price or product.

>status symols
not why, but thanks for proving my point.

good luck with that.

>It's different but not much better
>Admits to unironically enjoy Riesling
I bet you think 700 dollar scotch isnt neccessarily better then 70 dollar scotch just different.

>he thinks the holohoax happened
hahahahahahahahaha

I bet you think that there is no 70 dollar scotch on earth that is better than a 700 dollar scotch.

Protip: there is.

I believe that you're missing the psychological aspect of "luxury". Ever heard of the placebo effect? I could slap a $700 price tag on a $70 bottle of scotch, alter the labels and then you would praise it for its quality. Like the guy said, anything over $40 is marketing. You pay more because you are led to believe that it is better, and because you believe that it's better then in your experience it actually IS better.

This is the kind of thought process that people like you lack, and it is the same thought process that businesses take advantage of for the sake of increased profits.

If you don't believe me or the other poster then I suggest that you try to enter into one of these fields as a career. You will learn first hand that we aren't bullshitting you. A lot of effort goes into tricking people into spending more money than they have to.

>dumb foreign fuck with a taste for "luxury".
That's how style, fashion and luxury work, though. In Brooklyn people want what's cook in Paris, while Parisians want what's cool in Brooklyn. I have a buddy who is a model, and he never works in the US because he's too "American looking". He gets flown to Rome and Paris all the time for work, though. Exoticism is part of the appeal when it comes to luxury goods.

I don't see a thing wrong with that, it's just the nature of the beast.

>Enjoy living a lie
Nothing wrong with that either.
>pretending to be superior
No one is pretending, they're just doing what members of their social class do.
>a fraction of the price
There are many customers out there who are price insensitive, so it doesn't matter to them.

>anything over $40 is marketing.
Not quite. Scarcity really counts as well. There's only so much good Burgundy out there at a given time, and a lot of people who would like to drink it. That'll drive the price up to $200 a bottle. Can you find a good $40 bottle of Pinot Noir that's as good as a good Burgundy? You can, but it isn't easy. It's a tough grape to grow and work with, so good examples of wine made from it command high prices. But because it's popular you can shitty examples of it in boxes for $20. That will not be very Burgundy-like at all.

It's not just marketing. It's hard to make good Pinot, and the people who give a shit about making it can only make limited quantities of the stuff. So the good stuff is expensive. The people mass producing it don't have to give a fuck whether or not it's good because the people buying their wine just want something cheap that says Pinot Noir on the label - they've never even tasted a good example of it..

But you're right about people enjoying something more just because it's expensive, rare or difficult to obtain. That's just human nature, though. We put value on such things. Precious metals and gems are great examples. Any product that requires a lot of skill, time and resources to make gets valued similarly. No one will pay $50 for a glass of Coke, because it's easy and cheap to make and also widely available. But they will pay $50 for a glass of good Burgundy, because it's not. And someone paying that much is going to appreciate it for the rare thing it is, even if that has nothing specifically to do with the taste of it..

only fags and women drink wine

I don't know what any of that means

Great comment. Buyers do drive up the price of wine, which I find ridiculous as there are so many great wines you could buy for much cheaper.

Kind of reminds me of /vr/ complaining about the price of retro games. So many old games cost a fortune because people want "that game" even though there's 100's of great games for less money they would probably like more.

The Chinese are the worst for this in my experience. Actually they don't give a fuck about the wine just the social status that comes with buying.

critical rekt

>The Chinese are the worst for this in my experience. Actually they don't give a fuck about the wine just the social status that comes with buying.
Almost right. It's the social status that comes fom giving something rare and expensive as a gift. Prestigious French wine has taken the place Johnnie Walker black used to have in Asian gift giving.

I don't see this as such a bad thing, though, because it's not like I was buying much in the way of prestigious Burgundies and Bordeaux in the first place. I'm not really in the tax bracket to drink wine with bottle age on it anyways.

Speed isn't alcoholic, it's amphetamine, a completely unrelated compound. You must me pretty dumb to confuse the two. Stimulants and depressants are literally opposites.

The cocktail scene is almost entirely alcoholic. Alcohol is such an atrociously limiting substance for building flavours around. It's like restricting yourself to only making sweet dishes.

Coffee has very little room for innovation except for the stuff aimed at the lower classes. You are allowed to mess around with pressures and milk, but oy vey if you actually combine the coffee with non traditional ingredients. That's for plebs and Starbucks.

I'd consider the Soda fountain era as the greatest for drinks gastronomy. Even then though it was separate from the food.

It makes no sense to see food separate from the dish, or to make wine the only palette used to match it with a drink. The Chef should be creating most drinks to go with a dish. Alcohol should be in the minority of them and wine in the minority of those.

On a scale of 95 to 100 with 100 being "medical textbook grade freak of nature" and 95 being "mostly able to understand simple declarative sentences but unable to infer feelings or inflection, requires round-the-clock professional supervision", how tragically autistic are you?

There's so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin, but I'd probably begin with "the Soda fountain era as the greatest for drinks gastronomy"

Sorry, but
this. The soda fountain was for teenagers who suddenly couldn't hang out in bars anymore. It was just a bar where the alcohol was replaced with sugar.

If you look at the kind of drinks people make a big deal about they're usually drugs, mostly alcohol and caffeine. People like drinking their drugs. I'm not one of those people who sees sugar as a drug, but obviously some people behave like it is.

>It makes no sense to see food separate from the dish, or to make wine the only palette used to match it with a drink
Pairings tend to be traditional. In wine drinking cultures they have worked out wine pairings. In beer drinking cultures it's easier, because beer pairs well with almost everything. There are many foods designed to pair well with coffee and tea, fuck the English have an entire meal devoted to it.

I'm not particularly interested in innovative drink pairings, and sure as fuck wouldn't want them from someone who sees the soda fountain as the golden age of anything. Not a soda drinker.

>luxury cars fall apart after 3 years
lol no. not any faster or slower than non-luxury brands
>jeans fall apart after 6 months
how fucking fat are you? i have pairs of diesel jeans that are at least 5 years old and dont have any holes in them.
>good wine is just the name as cheap wine
people dont pay a thousand dollars for a bottle of wine because it tastes good. people will pay $100 for a bottle of wine because it tastes good.


you have the mentality of an angsty teenager or some wannabe that got rejected from the racquet club for lacking any understanding of class.

pic related, it's you.

>The soda fountain was for teenagers who suddenly couldn't hang out in bars anymore. It was just a bar where the alcohol was replaced with sugar.

But they experimented with the ingredients and the technology to combine them, they were all unique with their own unique specialities.

Even the cocktail scene has to wank to traditionalism, their allowed palette of is very limited.

Drinks are mostly in the equivalent of the pre-nouveau cuisine era. Refining traditional recipes and allowing small incremental development in the production of traditional ingredients (especially if it takes an inordinate amount of time, man time and money). Only the plebeians go beyond the boundaries of tradition and concentrate on what can be done and changed in the kitchen.

I have to admit Starbucks does innovate quite a lot, but it's at the Franchise level ... and they are often looked down upon for it.

>Pairings tend to be traditional.

Many of the dishes at the most highly rated restaurants are completely non traditional, there's nothing traditional to pair them with.

I disagree, no matter how shitty snobbery gets, at least it implies effort the other one only wallows in a lack thereof.

To be fair he's not entirely wrong. I've got friends in fashion, and they've told me stories of having to sew buttons back on Chanel jackets backstage at shows because they were sewed on so poorly in the first place.

While many luxury products are made with better materials and more careful attention to detail some of them are just slapping a label on the same shit as the cheap stuff. Eyeglass frames are a great example of this shit.

>Boy I love the flavour of High Fructose Corn Syrup the post

In tailoring, the button sewing is considered the lowliest task. All this shows you is that Chanel is a real old school fashion house because the water boy at the runway event is being made to sew buttons at the last possible second.

yea, but we were talking about jeans, specifically a good pair of jeans. I get that same poor quality shit with shirts - sometimes the buttons come off in the wash. but most people aren't going to get a good fit wearing shirts from old navy.

dont get me started on glasses. luxottica pisses me off, and the very few other brands that exist have taken advantage of the monopoly situation.

Catwalk items are the equivalent of prototypes though - they're intended for a couple of uses, to see if 'people' like the style, and if so they mass produce them to slightly higher tolerances

>luxottica pisses me off
reddit: the opinion

Autistic enough to know the basic differences between unrelated compounds.

I want Veeky Forums to leave

I've never been to Veeky Forums other than a short visit

It's just a bunch of teenagers jacking off over ugly tennis shoes and underaged camwhores

>It's just a bunch of teenagers jacking off over ugly tennis shoes and underaged camwhores
I think we have the winning entry for the "describe Veeky Forums in 20 words or less" competition

Jesus Titty Fucking Christ, I just took a look at it for the first time, the degeneracy is off the fucking charts

The problem is the medium: sweet drinks. Who drinks sweet drinks? Kids and fat women. No one will take you seriously when that is your target audience. Most people who are into gastronomy just don't take sweet drinks all that seriously. Maybe drinking chocolate and a handful of Italian sodas, but beyond that? There's no way to maintain any sense of gravitas sucking on a milkshake or a rootbeer float. You look like a teenager.

No, the problem is that it's ALL sweet drinks

The alcohol world has plenty of good sweet stuff (imperial stouts, late harvest wines, many cocktails). But there's also dry stuff, bitter stuff, sour stuff, etc.

"LOL you're literally drinking poison"
"It all tastes like rotting barrels to me"
"My uncle is really into wine too, he's an alcoholic"

or what said

There's a big world out there beyond sweetness, tannins, alcohol and traditionalism to be explored.

If the plebs are the only ones doing gastronomy instead of wanking to traditionalism, then of course the gastronomy will centre around certain plebian predilections. But it doesn't have to be that way.

Just do it better than them. Of course a restaurateur which tried doing that would have to give up the sweet lucre which can be made by putting a margin on ridiculously expensive wines.

Not sure what you're saying, do you equate wine with traditionalism? Traditional for one country is heresy for another. They've been making wine all over the place for millennia. Most wine lists outside of Midwestern steakhouses make an effort to show the "exotic" as we as the known.

This. Go ahead and drink your shitty horsepiss of a $10 bottle.

The tradition is picking wine as the one true palette from which all drink pairings have to be pulled from.

Although it's as much perpetuated for economic reason as traditionalism, which is why I think it has stayed lodged. Whereas food continues to be set free in recurring waves of innovation and anti-traditionalism.

Economics being the stronger force than tradition.

I like floral stuff and wish there was more out there. I mean there's tisanes but there has to be more they can do with it. I usually cold brew jamaica and drink it unsweetened after 24 hours or so and it's bretty gud. I tried soaking in tequila but it becomes too bitter unless you get the time just right.

>ReeeeeeeeeeeeeeEeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>STOP LIKING THINGS I DON'T LIKE

Fucking man child

>The tradition is picking wine as the one true palette from which all drink pairings have to be pulled from.
Fine dining was nased on the French model, and that's what the French believe. They're not entirely wrong. Wine is awful with some foods, but pretty fucking good when paired right. And a sparkler can pair well with just about anything. And's that's more fun than some random "innovative" drink. There is a difference between innovating and just making shit up.

nope rx7 fd

>Australia

Fourth largest wine producer in the world, mate. Not bad for a country that is 90% desert and only has 24 million people.

Calling this stuff "wine" seems generous

>There is a difference between innovating and just making shit up.
Fine dining is mostly made up shit, the rest being empty wallets.

What is even going on in this thread?

angst.

People not accepting the superiority of Chilean wines.

*laughs in californian*

All Chilean wine is good for is when you want a bordeaux knockoff for cheap and you have enough sense to avoid Californian garbage

>What is even going on in this thread?

Two opposing but equally autistic points of view are raging war