How does rap at its best compare to written poetry at its best?

How does rap at its best compare to written poetry at its best?

Who is the most poetic rapper?

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The Odyssey is a poem as well as Beowulf. So poetry at its best is eons above rap at its best.

slim shady

Mos Def isn't bad, but rap is basically glorified slam poetry

ITT will be: people who don't listen to hip-hop talking about how hip-hop is shit and unworthy of serious consideration

Mark E Smith

If they wanted to write anything good they'd just be writing poetry

To add onto this, modern day rap is essentially just as many double entendres and puns as you can fit into a 3 minute beat. Even then, the beat is more important than the actual words

It deserves as much serious consideration as all popular music.

I think you mean ITT: Little dick white bois jelly at what is the more relevant artform in the 21st (our) century

Pop culture and 'avantgarde' are part of a two pronged Semitic assault on the hallowed institutions of Western Culture. Art is supposed to aim for Beauty Truth and respect Tradition

MF DOOM is good at clever limerick writing and probably has some knowledge into the field of surreal literature, but other than him, I don't think I can accurately judge the field of hip-hop.
But then again, hip-hop culture is based on braggadocio and lyrical delivery, so of course, you often won't find many rappers who employ advanced writing structures and world building in their lyrics, due to it being easier to just write lyrics that rhyme and simplified metaphors to fit their rhyme scheme.
That being said, Story by Clipping is a damn good example of a rapper using their lyrics to their best and most abstract abilities.

Better than a dick that look like a massive turd

Hamilton the hip-hop musical by Lin-Manuel Miranda is a legit masterpiece. Like it even won the Pulitzer. Greatest artwork of the century so far imo

MF DOOM. A killer who love children. One who is well-skilled in destruction as well as building.

>Mos Def isn't bad, but rap is basically glorified slam poetry
I mean, only the activist rappers like Mos Def, talib kweli, MF Doom, immortal technique, kendrick lamar compare to slam poetry

the nigger this nigger that rap that serves only to hype people up is much less cringeworthy and more fun to listen to. Nobody wants to listen to rap music for its intellectual lyricism

"Real G's move in silence like lasagna" is the greatest line of the 21st century.

i got broads in Atlanta

This genius

Deltron, Clipping

1. Eminem
2. Macklemore
3. Justin Bieber

You need to learn the art of subtlety

1.Eminem
2. Mac Miller
3. Hopsin

Would have worked better

Lil B is literally James Joyce

IF RAP WAS A GAME THEN I'M THE MVP
THA MOST VALUABLE POET ON THA M-I-C

Really wouldn't have. Hopsin is the biggest red flag you can give.

Tell us some of your favorite artists so we can look at and compare their lyrics to poetry then.

Eat the cake like Anna Mae
Young Based God and I been doin my thing
Take my shirt off and the girls go insane
Four diamond rings, two big-ass chains
Eat that wonton soup I got the cash like chang chang chang
Bitches suck my dick because I cum like 36 ways
AK-47 leave that bitch with no fucking name
Call my main bitch and she stay giving me brain
Put that bitch to shame, violate that brain
Young Based God dope my bitch like I'm cocaine
Bitches snort my ring, that crackpipe like my chain
Found a dope man, I ride that bitch like Ace of Spades
Ho don't play that game!
I'm rapping not for the fame
I almost went to jail for like 500 days!
Bitch don't give no fuck, that's why I fuck her in the face
Fuck you suckers' heads then I ask her what's her name
Based God, man

Your not a leader your just a follower, shit, your mother shoulda swallowed ya

Lit would like Aesop rock probably

Bitch I'm Lil B, bitch I'm Lil B
Hoop Life mixtape, you gon' know that it's me
Still on the court and I'm still holding court
Ban me from the game cause you niggas on my dick
I'm a short nigga with a tall ass bitch
Might layup but I'll dunk on a bitch
Shoutout to the WNBA, you got some fine ass girls I wanna fuck in the mouth
Hoop Life mixtape I'mma try it out
I'm at try-outs, tryna' make a route
Fuck all you haters I'mma hop em' out
3 point on a bitch like Dirk Nowitzki
Up in the club like Dirk Nowitzki
See me on the court if you wanna diss me
Lets play a game of 21, its really fun
I got half court shots and I'll post you up
I'm Latrell Sprewell, I'll choke the coach
Street niggas like me either rich or broke
Gotta hustle hard that's all I know
Hoop life bitch that's all I know
Sports lifestyle with a gorgeous flow
With my contract imma buy a ho
Beverly Hills imma buy a home
Fuck KD that's how it go

UK > US tbqh lads

youtu.be/cKutTL_KLig

This

youtube.com/watch?v=7HEq8UqrujM

No that wouldn't No one is as transparent as that guy. It's embarrassing.

It's all sub-music garbage.

Itt niggers who buy into a completely capitalistic artificial product as a valid "street art."
Ironically most people who give money for that shit are rebellious teenage white kids from the suburbs.

youtu.be/6GyvRCjQwD8

This. Get fucking get redpilled guys. You fucking disgust me and your ancestors must be fucking ASHAMED.

Listen to some real music like Led Zep or Nirvana.

Nice strawman.

Rock music is also sub-music.

So I start my mission, leave my residence
Thinking how could I get some dead presidents
I need money, I used to be a stick-up kid
So I think of all the devious things I did
I used to roll up, this is a hold up, ain’t nothing funny
Stop smiling, be still, don’t nothing move but the money
But now I learned to earn cause I’m righteous
I feel great so maybe I might just search for a 9 to 5
If I strive then maybe I’ll stay alive
So I walk up the street, whistling this
Feeling out of place cause, man, do I miss
A pen and a paper, a stereo, a tape of
Me and Eric B and a nice big plate of
This, which is my favorite dish
But without no money it’s still a wish

move over Wordsworth!!!

>Thinking how could I get some dead presidents
Well, at least there was once good line. And that's likely not even original.

Godsmack is how the wind feels
On the face of Mike Winfield
On his way home from the bar where he works
Nights - the worst nights, don't nobody tip right
And between the marriage offers and the fist fights
And if another mother fucker touch his wrist trying to pull him in to whisper
He ain't making it to midnight
Don't they know he got a lighter in his pocket
A matchbook in his sock and a block full of charred skeletons closeted begging to get out
He paused cause he's scared of airing out the thoughts
He can taste it in his mouth the sulfur and bitter carbon
Hearing all the burning bodies shout but no
That was a full lifetime ago and nobody ever has to know
He has never told well except Ronald
But that don't count he was sweet and exactly what he needed him to be at the time
Wine and candlelight and nice texts at lunchtime
Why had he not called Ron back
Guess there just wasn't a spark
No no musn't joke about these things
Wouldn't want to disappoint Doc Clark
So many hours on the couch
So many buried memories that take so many tears to get them out
Water hadn't never been a friend
Hold up - where had he seen that car before
Blue Acura dent on the left rear fender
Back again the sense of
Deja Vu
Strange things you
Never shake when you wake up in recovery

But suddenly noticing ash is covering his head cause it's raining from the sky
Dials home on his cell phone and gets no reply
What the fuck?
Where is the babysitter that he overpays
Body takes over and brain becomes disengaged
Michael is running his house is three blocks away
Adrenaline compensating for change in age
Since the last that he ran it god dammit
Mike knows he gotta get home fast as he can
Looks up in the sky, glow's familiar
Knows those families died with similar
Awnings and on and on he keeps going
Hits the corner just as he hears the explosion
Screams comes from the house,"Did you get them out"
Mike asking came the crowd that gathered round
Tears running down his face
There's that familiar taste
He wishes it would take him to another place
Son and his baby girl in his home and he can't believe that it's gone in a cloud of smoke
And he's choking and running forward and hoping against hope that he might find them alive and well
When he knows the results too well and he knows that fooled himself
And he keeps walking toward the house rather what house is still left
No intention of stopping letting the smoke take his breath
Some strong arm rocks him aside Mike falls to the ground and cries
Why won't you just let me die
Why won't you just let me die

I like Eyedea and also Atmosphere.
also this

Bet he would say the same thing about jazz if he lived in the past

rap is just niggers talking

jazz is the musical equivalent to scribbling all over a piece of paper and calling it art

You're retarded and none of the women at the gym that you ogle even believe you listen to your fedora bullshit music :^)

Rap is bad though

youtube.com/watch?v=B3X04Ryhnjo

Clipping. is nice. But why harder on the flow, than on the lyrical side.

Ghosts on the avenue were talking to theyselves
Somebody been selling them dreams again
Breathe again, the breeze is full of trees again
The beast buried under the streets is ‘bout to
Leave the den of thieves and hooligans ready to
Fettuccine the noodles of any cook looking new to the kitchen
Cooking up wishes and powder, flour the pan and the cake will bake even better
The cheddar stay in the refrigerator
To keep it fresh until it's on
Every day is preparation for Armageddon
A holocaust, any cost, you want to get on one or on two
Get three stacks and bring it back to the fortress
Wrapping five fingers 'round that much cash will make a motherfucker Cassius Clay
Quick, the cash is pay, checking gas with a loaded fo-fo when he rollin'
Po-po on his shoulder so he's slow but he's goin', wouldn't you?
If you scared, say you scared, cause they comin' through sweepin'
And nobody got a problem sweepin' over you
Trust the shadows is thick, full of mattresses, get over, get past it or suck a dick
Skinner glass, killer fashion, and spinning back
So quit back spinning and get a gat
Fuck a battle rap, rappers will battle where they at
Trunk rattle is leaving the streets and probably eating the map
Verses versus the hearses, Versace versus the nerves and the pain
Slang, it seems to be a no-brainer the same folks sayin' it ain't
Are the same folk that never seen a caddy-driven candy paint
Or the block after the rain
Fucker, prepare for the storm
Hope you got a blanket or a body keepin' you warm
The spoken word is weak
Scream motherfucker, dreams are cheap
You ain't even even gotta sleep
Don't sleep, it's Clipping bitch

Why are you dead set on comparing music lyrics to written poetry? All you want to do is immediately say they suck so you can continue to dismiss hip hop as an art form without ever giving yourself the chance to enjoy it. You're too prejudiced to consider them with any objectivity because you want your preconceived notions to remain intact.

>Bet he would say the same thing about jazz if he lived in the past
Jazz is non-music, hip hop is just sub-music.
Pop music isn't an art form.

Good meaningful rap is much harder than your average poem because it's multisyllabic.

The best rap songs are definitely on par with the greatest poems. For example the rapper Canibus song "Poet Laureate" which is a 45 minute long multisyllabic rap.

Rap stands for rhythm and poetry. Rap is poetry. Most rappers today have a larger vocabulary than the greatest poets and can do complex poetry techniques with ease. it is much harder to write a multisyllabic meaningful rap than it is your average poem.

I'm generally interested in a response so if you want to argue this then send me some good poems. I'm willing to change my pov. I've read a bit of Ezra Pound and T S Eliot so far.

>The best rap songs are definitely on par with the greatest poems.
No it's not.
>Rap stands for rhythm and poetry. Rap is poetry. Most rappers today have a larger vocabulary than the greatest poets and can do complex poetry techniques with ease. it is much harder to write a multisyllabic meaningful rap than it is your average poem.
There is no meaning in popular music.

Stop deluding yourself, you pretentious prole.

>Rap is poetry
CUZ I SED SO

this is a combination of arrogance and ignorance

Gil Scott-Heron is spoken word/proto rap and is brilliant. He is like a beat poet if the beats were really black instead of pretending to be black.

Not all rap is popular music. Take for example Eyedea's liquid sovereignty. Lil Ugly Mane's "Grave Within A Grave" is top-tier poetry. genius.com/Lil-ugly-mane-grave-within-a-grave-lyrics

If someone grew up in a cubicle as Plato once suggested
They would only know the cubicle and not the world outside it
And they wouldn't view the cubicle as something geometric
We only know it's a cubicle because we live outside it

Now the one inside the cubicle can't comprehend his measurements
Because measurements are models made up for and by observers
Relative to their position on the outside of the cubicle
To understand objectively so they can study further

If I grew up in a cubicle the walls limit my universe
I have no knowledge of the entirety like the outsiders do
If you follow what I say and can swallow the powdered water
Close your eyes and open your minds, this one's for you

And the brain equals a cubicle we'll never think outside it
Now inside wanna try to tie a diagram to modify them
I'm there as a hybrid of a body of a pirate
Of a soul that can fly without control

Realizing the brain takes in six billion signals per second
Most of which are hidden and not given to the senses
We're limited to a few futile primitive tools of perception
Livin' in a universal pool of first hand deception

The mind's job is to receive the signals
And block the ones out that don't coincide with imprinted symbols
That way the information you obtained is recognized
Reality is thinkable; incomparable to space and time

It makes a map of the territory that gives us
The topic of the Copenhagen interpretation of modern quantum
Physics which states we don't know the meal
We only know the menu that our brains tells us is real

We don't know the rules of our heads
From inside these cubicles we can't see the truth
No one really knows exactly what happens when we think
Therefore we can never really ever know anything

All hip hop is, by definition, popular music.

By not knowing what popular music is, you have shown yourself to be a pretentious little /mu/ kiddie that hasn't once read poetry outside of high school.
>Lil Ugly Mane's "Grave Within A Grave" is top-tier poetry
DUUUUUDE IT SO RANDOM AND DARK BUT ITS IRONIC HAHA I OMG FUKKING SHEEP ITS 2016 WHY ARENT YOU ENLIGHTENED LIKE ME YET!!!???
Wow so meaningful

do people seriously believe any of this could be published as poetry? if i read this type of shit in a book of poetry i would cringe the entire time

dude they use big words and are MEANINGFUL! you just dont understand because youre WHITE AND RACIST!! this is super meaningful and hard to do they put so much work into it so if you dont appreciate that your just RACIST!! ugh omg go back to pol

That's your personal taste. You can't say that a poem about Socrates paradox is cringe-worthy. It's very well-written. I think the others were definitely bad.
There was a study that showed that the top rappers have higher vocabulary than the top poets. People like you do try and take away the merits of rap due to your own taste and prejudice.

we wuz kingz n shit

That last line might be an overstatement that we need to wait a little bit on but I agree with the rest. It has brought both hip hop and musicals to a whole new level

>vocabulary has anything to do with quality
Try again, you illiterate turd.

There is no merit in popular music.

>top rappers
the only objective way of determining 'top' would be top grossing, so i guess you are trying to tell me that Drake, Rick Ross, Lil Wayne, Kanye West are smarter than Robert Frost, Wordsworth, Blake, Shakespeare..
fuck off. Veeky Forums is no place for a pleb like you

I'm talking specifically about writing skill. If you want to talk about meaning as I suggested you show look at Lil Ugly Mane's grave within a grave.
I was referring to top as in their ability to write well. Rappers make complex literary skills look easy. It's almost second nature, unlike poems which are usually simple.

DUDE THEY KNOW MORE WORDS IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MORE AND MORE WORDS BEING CREATED DUE TO THE VULGARIZATION OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ITS BECAUSE THEYRE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY SMARTER THAN THOSE STUPID PEOPLE BEFORE THEM PEOPLE ARE GETTING STUPIDER I KNOW 10TH GRADE MATH SO IM SMARTER THAN EVERYBODY WHO DID MATH BEFORE ME ITS 2016 WHY ARENT YOU ENLIGHTENED YET???!!! HOPSIN IS THE GREATEST MUSICIAN AND POET OF THE 21ST CENTURY IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT YOU CAN GO BACK TO POL
>I'm talking specifically about writing skill
They have the 'writing skill' of a middle schooler.
>which are usually simple.
Confirmed for never reading poetry beyond high school.

I've literally just sent something to you that proves the opposite. Grave Within A Grave is far meaningful than most poems. If you don't understand it that's your own problem. It's also very well-written. You obviously didn't even read. I've read The Cantos. Keep continuing your emotionally invested rant though. I'm not a fan of hopsin and I would never claim he is a good poet.

>I've literally just sent something to you that proves the opposite.
How is shallow meme-poetry for teenagers 'meaningful'?

How is shallow meme poetry that may as well have been read by a teenager well-written?
>I've read The Cantos
But nothing else.

Stop trolling, you are not subtle.

What kind of rap do you like?

There is no good rap, no good popular music (a term that an illiterate like you is unfamiliar with.)

ooga booga

No idiot I wouldn't because the context is different. It's like saying I would hate the Beatles since I hate bieber too. Mass production target demographics and marketing happened since.

What good music do you listen to?

Music you'd call 'pretentious' for baseless reasons

The biggest question I would ask is "are you a virgin?" but I already know the answer

classical. now please tell me how Riff Raff and Gucci Mane are better musicians than Schubert and Haydn

You throw a hissy fit about bards on Veeky Forums and play this paranoid busllshit? You might be dumb, friend.

>Nirvana
>good

I don't think any the lyrics of any rap music has ever struck as deep as the best poetry I've read... but I don't think rap music is lyrically devoid.

If you strip the beats away the most lyrically deep rap music could probably stack up to some moderate poetry in terms of complexity, meaning and feelz.

literal cracker

Do you think this has anything to do with rap being a relatively new phenomenon? I wonder if given more time to develop it will become more complex

A lot of hip-hop is better than most modern poetry. It exists for aesthetic and emotional purposes, rather than just being navel-gazing intellectual wankery.

How many legitimately sincere poets are there, these days? Marie Howe is all that comes to mind.

shut up simpleton

Kind of underrated rapper, but George Watsky from that one HBO slam poetry show went on to produce some pretty phenomenal records. He even plays with spoken word now and again. I like it a lot.

gwatsky.bandcamp.com

this whole "rap is poetry" nonsense reeks of a desperate need for validation. it's like when people trying to rebrand video games as "esports" in some attempt to make it more acceptable.

rap is rap and video games are video games, and there's nothing wrong with that.

and rap is rythm and poetry, mate

>some nig-nog said it despite never reading any poetry of any merit so it must be true

>need for validation
your funny

youtube.com/watch?v=UwGnpIX1I0M

youtube.com/watch?v=lxCtrRh89C0

youtube.com/watch?v=iuF6CpML3IQ

Rap is crap and snoop is poop.

Being black is wack, amirite?

Being white is tight, nahmean?

Wow you sure outed yourself as a liberal faggot just now. Those four posts have perfectly valid points. Just because their ideas make you uncomfortable doesn't mean they're arrogant or ignorant. Get that shit outta here.

dope rhymes man!

Nas.

Such a generic answer
Nas is more like a good gangster rapper rather than a poet

What about meme rap?

youtube.com/watch?v=E-CToIZlszI

Lupe Fiasco is the greatest lyricist ever

Some of the ppl on this board are mentally fucked. So much cognitive issues here .

You little cuntniggers saying rap has no skill are fucking dumb. Poetry and rap really is not THAT different. You fucking phimosis having, dick sucking, fag house living, hypercritical spics are so idiotic.

>loves literature
>thinks rap is dumb nigger music


Holy fuck. Die, all of you.

Nas is alright.
>Who is the most poetic rapper?
Milo
youtube.com/watch?v=P5H77IUvu1E