Lie Groups, Lie Algebras, Spinors, Belt Tricks, SU(2)<=>SO(3), Quantum Mechanics, and the meaning of life

Lie Groups, Lie Algebras, Spinors, Belt Tricks, SU(2)SO(3), Quantum Mechanics, and the meaning of life.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=kpeP3ioiHcw
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie_algebra
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_action
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie_bracket_of_vector_fields#Properties
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

>That feel when you will never understand this shit

Hey Veeky Forums

So I just got done with a Quantum Mechanics class that touched on symmetries and group theory applications in QM at the end. Unfortunately it was poorly presented, but fortunately it turned me on to group representations and Lie Groups.

So I really want to understand QM spin. I've tried several times over the years, and I am ready to admit that it's a very difficult concept. But I think it's because I've never seen it well presented. I was looking around on youtube the other day and stumbled across this guys lectures from CO College of Mines on Lie Groups:

youtube.com/watch?v=kpeP3ioiHcw

While the presentation wasn't super high level, the dude describes the exponential map in an intuitive way and motivates discovering deeper mathematics by looking for deeper, often times algebraic, connections.

So, to understand spin, I really need to understand Lie Groups and Lie Algebras. Right now I am scratching my head over the motivation for a Lie Algebra. I understand that the generators of the algebra form a basis of the tangent space of the group manifold, but don't understand the motivation for the definition of Lie Bracket, which is often the commutator of group elements. It smells of determinant to me, but I don't see the connect, and the wiki article doesn't motivate it's definitions.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie_algebra

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on these fascinating topics. Ultimately I want a solid understanding of spin, but I need to get there step by step. This thread is for people who want the same, or who have the insight to help the more naive of us out a little.

>but don't understand the motivation for the definition of Lie Bracket

Consider the lie group [math]G[/math]. Lie groups are smooth manifolds so you can define a diffeomorphism which is a left group action, [math{L_g}:G \to G[/math].

A vector field on G, [math]v \in \Gamma \left( {TG} \right)[/math], is called left invariant if [math]\left( {\operatorname{d} {L_g}} \right)\left( v \right) = v[/math].

The lie bracket is a product on the tangent bundle of a manifold. [math] \left[ { \cdot , \cdot } \right]:\Gamma \left( {TG} \right) \times \Gamma \left( {TG} \right) \to \Gamma \left( {TG} \right) [/math].

Consider the set of left invariant vector fields on G. [math] \mathfrak{g} = \left\{ {v \in \Gamma \left( {TG} \right)|\left( {\operatorname{d} {L_g}} \right)\left( v \right) = v} \right\} [/math]

To make this set a vector space, we need to equip the product [math]\left[ { \cdot , \cdot } \right][/math].

The vector space [math]\left( {\mathfrak{g},\left[ { \cdot , \cdot } \right]} \right)[/math] is the lie algebra of G.


This space is then isomorphic to the tangent space of G at the identity.

All you need to do is go through Stewart's Galois theory then through Jacobson's Lie algebras and you that will give you a good introduction.

...

>diffeomorphism
Had to look up this, but looks like a bijective smooth map between manifolds, check.

>group action
Also had to look up this. The wiki is ok:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_action
But talks about things in the most abstract way possible, which isn't bad per se, but not great for beginners. Anyway I made the connection between the example of matrices of a group rep and the vector spaces they act on, and saw buried in the example precisely this. So I get this concept. check.

[math]{L_g}:G \to G[/math] (Just to correct your post)

What do you mean by [math]TG[/math]? What's T? Is [math]\Gamma[/math] the set of all vector fields on [math]G[/math]?

I just spent 30 minutes staring at that gif. Do i have a problem?

Perhaps illustrating this post with SO(2) would be more illuminating? I'm starting to think TG means tangent space, but don't really understand.

[math] {L_g}:G \to G [/math] is simply the map [math] x \mapsto g \cdot x [/math] for all [math]x \in G[/math] and fixed [math]g \in G[/math].

[math] TG = \coprod\limits_{x \in G} {{T_x}} G[/math] is the tangent bundle of G, which is the disjoint union of the tangent spaces.

For any vector bundle [math]E[/math], [math]\Gamma \left( E \right)[/math] denotes the set of sections of E.

By definition, a vector field on a manifold M is a section of the tangent bundle of M. So [math]\Gamma \left( {TM} \right)[/math] denotes the set of vector fields on M.

Did you figure out how it worked?

If not, then you might have a problem!

I know how it works. I even saw a talk by a lie group mathematician who made it into a mechanism for robots. It is just so mesmerizing.

Serious question though. How do i go from learning about that stuff to making cool animations like the OP? Like i've studied a little topology but i don't know where to begin in making stuff like that one turn the sphere inside out video. It all seems so abstract.

Well, you need to know how to program. The person who made this animation likely used Java. Most Java courses will teach how to make animations.

OP here.

Ok, reading through this, I've gotten most of the way through, but still have a few questions.

> Consider lie group [math]G[/math]
Ok, let's say [math]U(1)[/math], which is isomorphic to a circle.

> Lie groups are smooth manifolds so you can define a diffeomorphism ... left group action [math] L_g : G \to G
Ok, so with [math]U(1)[/math], I could choose any element [math]g \in U(1)[/math] and define [math]L_g[/math], such as choosing the element that rotates by 120' and saying defining [math]L_{120'}[/math]

>A vector field on [math]G[/math], [math]v \in \Gamma (TG)[/math], is called left invariant if [math](dL_g)(v)=v[/math].
What's with the d? In the case of [math]L_{120'}[/math], isn't a 3-fold symmetric vector field [math]v[/math] invariant? Are you trying to indicate differentiation?

>The lie bracket is a product on the tangent bundle of a manifold.
Ok, consider a function that takes two elements of the tangent bundle (aka sections, smooth vector fields on the manifold, correct?) and combines them to yield a new element of the tangent bundle. Cool.

>Consider the set of left invariant vector fields on [math]G[/math]
This is a big set to imagine. In the case of [math]L_{120'}[/math], we have all 3-fold symmetric vector fields on the circle. But the set [math] \mathfrak{g}[/math] is includes invariant vector fields for all elements of the group. I think I get this concept, but it takes some effort.

>To make this set a vector space, we need to equip the product [.,.]
Ya lost me. You haven't defined what the product or its properties are yet. I don't understand.

>The vector space (g,[.,.]) is the lie algebra of G
Assuming the above is true, g is obviously a vector space because it is composed of elements of a tangent bundle, so it is locally a vector space, right?

But wat is [.,.]? Where did it come from? o_0

So you just finished your first undergrad physics class?

>Ya lost me. You haven't defined what the product or its properties are yet. I don't understand.

[.,.] is the lie bracket with the usual properties.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie_bracket_of_vector_fields#Properties

>Assuming the above is true, g is obviously a vector space because
g is closed under [.,.]. i.e. the lie bracket of two left invariant vector fields is again a left invariant vector field.

>The person who made this animation likely used Java
What are you basing that off of, Pajeet?

>which is isomorphic to a circle.

Classic differential geometry! Spend weeks defining charts, bundles, sections, differential forms, tensors, tons of other abstract and esoteric concepts.

Now some examples... consider the circle... consider the 2-sphere... consider the cone...

why did we bother?

You find nothing from there, enjoy waste of time

Look, if you're still going to troll or act retarded, that's fine.
- Swear
- Ad hominem; Call people names
- Don't provide counter-arguments
- Reject realism and the scientific consensus
That's ok.
Just don't loop.
Looping is cancer.

Personal incredulity and the argument from ignorance are fallacies. You're ignorant.
You imply you have no knowledge of the other kinds, therefore they don't exist.
That is wrong irrational.
:D

When attempting to grasp something new, it's usually wiser to see how it works with something you understand than something exotic you don't understand.

Boi

yes, but that's all they ever present in the textbooks where it's introduced

Unfortunately after the point and circle you run out of dimensions to visualize tangent bundles. For n-dimensional objects, the tangent bundle in dimension 2n, so spheres and surfaces are out until my shipment of 4D graph paper comes in.

...

Bump. Still thinking about this. Will post more questions soon.

Final bump.